Two Red Barons?

[Baxter]

I received my kickstarter pack yesterday with the RAP and 4 planes. I have noticed that the Red Dr1 is different from the one I already have. My original was one of the four that came with the Wings of War Revised Deluxe set, is a brighter red, and has the bottom two wings and part of the fuselage in the Olive green color. The crosses are also edged with white rather than on the white square patches like the new one (See Lingster's photorealistic map thread for pictures of the old one on his map). Why is it so fellow experten

[john snelling]

Richthofen actually flew several different Fokker Dr1s.

[gully_raker]

Yes MVR flew a number of different Triplanes with variations of the Red top wing, nose & standard streaky green standard Fokker camo as well as the all red bird in which he was killed.

[flash]

As John says Gary - MvR had Dr1 in colours and markings various Gary !

I found this selection to give you an idea.

[Blackronin]

The Red Baron was really a plane collector, wasn't he?

[Baxter]

Well it is very nice to have 2 of them in our hangars.

[gully_raker]

As John says Gary - MvR had Dr1 in colours and markings various Gary !

I found this selection to give you an idea.

Thats a really great poster Dave!

I used to have a poster done by Dr Jim Miller showing all of MvR's aircraft from the very beginning but along the way must have deleated it.
That is a great depiction of all MvR's Dr.I's!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I was not aware that he had that many Dave. I have seen the red and green one as well as the two we have, but never checked to see if there were any variations in it, so just assumed there was only one of them. side by side like that it is obvious.
Thanks.
Rob.

[7eat51]

This would make a nice collection, and would look nice on the table together.

[flash]

they're not all combat aircraft Rob -
102/17 - the F.1 assigned to MvR - 2 victories #60,61 - and the aircraft Kurt Wolff died in Sep 15 1917
114/17: Not shown - MvR crashed this one October 30, 1917 after the engine had thrown a cylinder, it was not repaired.
127/17: MvR - victories: # 71,74,76
141/17: Sent to Adlershof on Nov. 2-5 1917 for type test by MvR (re wing failures), Survived the war, sent to USA at McCook Field
152/17: Returned to Schwerin 3/18/1918 for modification and test flown by Mai. MvR - victories # 64,65 (destroyed in bombing of Berlin WW2)
161/17: MvR's Courier Plane - also known to used by his cousin Wolfram. (apparently ?!)
477/17: 10 victories in this one ? #66,67,68,69,70,72,73,75,77,78
425/17: The aircraft he died in - he had his last 2 victories in this one too.
Can't vouch for the accuracy but the info came from here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...von_Richthofen
http://www.fokkerdr1.com/

[Hedeby]

Really informative, thanks for this guys

[Baxter]

Looking at the picture. I think the original MVR WoW model was 161 and the WoG one is 141.

[gully_raker]

Looking at the picture. I think the original MVR WoW model was 161 and the WoG one is 425.

I would agree with you Gary.
The all red one in the poster seems a bit too dark to me, I think it should be more like the Red on 161.
Here is a pic of a diorama in the Omaka Museum in New Zealand with which Sir Peter Jackson has a big involvement & he is pretty passionate about WW1 history.

MvR diorama.jpg Views: 433 Size: 95.4 KB" style="float: CONFIG" />

[bsmith13]

Post a pic of the mini, please

[flash]

Looking at the picture. I think the original MVR WoW model was 161 and the WoG one is 141.

If you look closely at the models you may find a number on its flank - mine (WoW) has 127 on the green one and 425 on the all red - the red just has the wrong markings for that particular kite. I'm sure this has been discussed in detail before, as has the shade of red used on the model and the real thing !

[bsmith13]

Is there any way that you can post a picture with both minis in it?

[flash]

I could but to what purpose ? In the mean time...:

[bsmith13]

My apologies! I misread your post, and was under the impression that the Kickstarter Von Richthofen DR.I was somehow different than existing minis from the Wings Of War Series 1, the Revised Deluxe or the recent repaint.

In any case, thanks for taking the time to answer me!

[Timmo UK]

There's another scheme for 425 – i.e. before the crosses were repainted in the later straight edged style. I read somewhere that apparently this hadn't been completed before he was shot down so 425 had the earlier style crosses under the lower wing. Apparently.

The WoW is closest to 141 except for the blue underwing paint and the later WoG model to 161 in terms of paint scheme and markings.

Really the WoW (and therefore the WoG reprint) model isn't accurate for any single MvR plane – amazingly they got that wrong, quite how I don't know. I'd love to see them do an accurate rendition of 425 that he got shot down in – that would partner the Roy Brown Camel the best.

[monse]

Attachment 297403

According to the following information, the Fokker DR.I painted all red with white cross fields (left on the picture, number 141/17) nos not correct.
Message from Dan San Abbot, WW1 German planes specialist (5 January 2011) :
“MvR never flew any Fok.DR.I painted all red with white cross fields. It never happened. That information comes from someone who is ill informed about how MvR's Fokker Triplane were finished. The photos taken of Fok.F.I 102/17 which were finished in the standard Fokker factory streaked olive-brown finish, have misidentified the finish as being red. A lot of published photos have this caption, it is incorrect.”
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...t=50706&page=4

So, the Wings of War (2007) and Wings of Glory (2012) all red Fokker Dr.I with white square on the fuselage and upper wing have never been correct.
The one with Balkankreuz / Latin cross (on the right of the picture) is the correct one (April 1918).
The other one with iron cross (on the left) would be correct with white bordered iron cross and no white square (late March 1918).
They both have the same production number : Fok DRI 425/17.



source : Osprey 40 - Fokker Dr.I aces of WW1


The two colours (green and red) Fokker Dr.I are quite similar in the WOW (left on the picture) and WOG (right) versions concerning the painting.
They both have number 127/17.



From source Osprey - Richthofen Circus (page 74) :
Richthofen’s combat reports describe Dr.I 127/17 as having a red upper wing, cowling, struts and tail (along with red struts and wheel covers).
The same colour scheme was applied to his Fokker Dr.I 152/17, 477/17 and 161/17.

[Flying Helmut]

Great info, Monse!

Actually, the picture of 141/17 is NOT excluded by Dan San Abbott's comments;

According to the following information, the Fokker DR.I painted all red with white cross fields (left on the picture, number 141/17) nos not correct.
Message from Dan San Abbot, WW1 German planes specialist (5 January 2011) :
“MvR never flew any Fok.DR.I painted all red with white cross fields. It never happened. That information comes from someone who is ill informed about how MvR's Fokker Triplane were finished.

141/17 in this picture is not "all-red" - it clearly has blue struts and blue underwing surfaces.

I suppose it depends upon what is meant by the term "all red": does that refer to upper surfaces/sides only, or to the entire airframe?

The 'Nexus' mini is definitely wrong, in being "all-red", top and bottom; but repaint the struts and wing undersurfaces in blue, and it could then be "correct"?

[flash]

If the info that 141/17 survived the war and was sent to USA at McCook Field is correct you'd think that the colours & markings would be well known and documented. It doesn't appear it was one of MvR's combat aircraft anyway and is not subject of any model by Nexus or Ares.
The mis-marking of the WoW model 425/17 is well known and could be easily remedied with paint/decals.

[Diamondback]

As an aside, 425/17 would have only had the Balkan Crosses of the Ares "Revised" model for a few days, it spent most of its existence with Iron Crosses like 141/17 but the white fields overpainted red. Given that we're GOING to have an MvR EVERY time Ares reruns the Tripes, I'm trying to encourage them to mix it up a little with some of his other birds to give collectors a reason not to sit it out.

MvR wouldn't have had all those planes personally assigned at once; more likely up to three, a main, a spare and a no-combat "utility hack." He also would frequently take a plane for himself, then once found satisfactory turn it over to another pilot--almost like he was taking it on himself to do his own personal Acceptance Testing for Jasta 11 even on top of Idflieg's.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Now that is interesting DB.
Rob.