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Thread: WGS Unofficial aircraft list Version 1.0

  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    So, changes to the above KI-43 card?
    Is that card for a Ki-43-I or Ki-43-II?
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  2. #202

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    Yes, there is a 90 degree turn, and a very wide side-slip.

    Thanks,
    Dave

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dak21 View Post
    Much appreciated.

    I’m thinking for my own house rule, I’ll give the self sealing tanks a 1 in 3 chance of working against 50 cal and above.

    In all reality, if a US fuel tank took a hit by a 2cm or greater HEI round, it was game over as well.

    Another question on the Oscar (and Zero). What are your thoughts on the added maneuver cards for Deck C done by “Banzai Edition “? They seem to make sense to me as without them, Deck C is pretty unremarkable, leaving zeroes and Oscars with few advantages compared to the vulnerabilities. They did fly circles around allied planes early on, and with the vanilla Deck C, that isn’t really possible (at least in my rookie opinion).

    Thanks again for your work on this.

    Davd
    There were some house-rule maneuver cards added for the A6M 'Zero' for sharper turns and a side-slip (Link: Zero - Post #42). (Took me too long to find them, sorry)
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 11-17-2019 at 20:53.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Is that card for a Ki-43-I or Ki-43-II?
    Should be the Ki-43 Ic from your 'WGS Stats V1.0 2015'.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Should be the Ki-43 Ic from your 'WGS Stats V1.0 2015'.
    Then yes, dang, I need to keep notes of my errata.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  6. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Is that card for a Ki-43-I or Ki-43-II?
    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Should be the Ki-43 Ic from your 'WGS Stats V1.0 2015'.
    Card above (Post #192) corrected to 15 Damage Resistance.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  7. #207

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    I will note my cards for Oscar updates.


    Also on the Devestator comment, I think I printed my cards on HF size to make them easier to hit.

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    There were some house-rule maneuver cards added for the A6M 'Zero' for sharper turns and a side-slip (Link: Zero - Post #42
    @Karl

    Are those now unofficial official maneuvers? I love to use them.

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    @Karl

    Are those now unofficial official maneuvers? I love to use them.
    Being house rules, you may use them if you wish.
    I have not, but then I haven't run a game with Zeros for a while. Hmm....note: will need to decide for Origins.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    @Karl

    Are those now unofficial official maneuvers? I love to use them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Being house rules, you may use them if you wish.
    I have not, but then I haven't run a game with Zeros for a while. Hmm....note: will need to decide for Origins.
    Karl
    I use them for my Zeros and Oscars. (will also for CW-21s) I think they give the Japanese the needed maneuverability they need. Lots of fun when flying them!

  11. #211

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    When assigning decks, what is considered to define the appropriate slow speed?

    I have seen a few references on the forum to 'cruise speed'. However for most of the official aircraft the slow speed reflects neither the best endurance, best range or max weak mix speed. For some aircraft it's pretty close to max sea level speed which seems perhaps a little high but I guess the relative performance bis considered at a given altitude (i.e. the effective ground scale on the cards reduces with height).

    I'm trying to puzzle this out for adding aircraft in Tabletop Simulator as I have the luxury of basically inventing new decks as nothing needs printing.

    Any insight as to the logic used for the official unofficial list would be greatly appreciated.

  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    When assigning decks, what is considered to define the appropriate slow speed?

    I have seen a few references on the forum to 'cruise speed'. However for most of the official aircraft the slow speed reflects neither the best endurance, best range or max weak mix speed. For some aircraft it's pretty close to max sea level speed which seems perhaps a little high but I guess the relative performance bis considered at a given altitude (i.e. the effective ground scale on the cards reduces with height).

    I'm trying to puzzle this out for adding aircraft in Tabletop Simulator as I have the luxury of basically inventing new decks as nothing needs printing.

    Any insight as to the logic used for the official unofficial list would be greatly appreciated.
    Sorry I missed this, Mark.
    I know in discussions years ago, Andrea said the slow speed was related to the cruise speed. In my checking for decks, I haven't seen this to be the case.
    When I look at a deck to assign, I look at top speed, wingloading and P/W ratios. In my view, the slower the slow speed, the more maneuverable the plane is in combat.
    Look at the A deck (Spitfire Mk.II) and the H deck (P-40E). Both have a high speed arrow of 6cm (about 360MPH +/- 13MPH). But the A deck has a slow speed of 2.7cm
    while the H deck is 3.8cm. So while they both turn the same at high speed, the A deck will turn inside the H deck at slow speed.
    Then you factor in the side slips (which, frankly, I'm still trying to figure out the math for, rather than "it looks good").

    The rules of the Committee are that we can remove cards from a deck, but not add any. I personally feel the I deck needs 30 degree turns; it makes no sense without them.
    The most I do in bending tis rule is to take a deck, and change the length by a multiplier; this is usually for planes faster than 7.7cm straight.
    Very occasionally, there is a plane that falls into a donut hole in the decks. I sometimes recommend this method for it.
    Hope this helps; I really can't recommend creating totally new decks.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  13. #213

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    Thanks for the insights Karl. So far I have largely stuck to the official ARES or unofficial committee stats with the exception of the Zero which I have given the 60deg and extreme sideslips of the A deck rescaled to the C lengths. I will almost certainly add the 30 turns to the I deck too- it makes no sense not to have them when you need to fine tune your position for bombing!
    In terms of totally new decks I will probably only need them if I ever get round to introducing jets.

  14. #214

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    Mike (OldGuy59) and I have been talking about jet decks using my system.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  15. #215

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    Work in progress, attempting to add in the 30 degree turns for the I maneuver deck. Note that this required the nearly complete renumbering of the existing maneuvers.

    The new turns are maneuvers 5 and 6 on this card, with the existing 45 degree turns renumbered to 9 and 10. I hope these are the right length and angle change (based on the fudging I was doing on the Jet maneuver cards).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MATES <acronym title=WGS IplusL.jpg  Views: 99  Size: 36.8 KB  ID: 295317" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
    [Edit: Updated with blue outline on Left Turn white arrow heads.]

    All the maneuvers after the turns required renumbering, as can be seen on the straights/sideslips side of this card. If this is approved, I will produce the opposite turns and renumber the climb/dive card.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 12-13-2020 at 23:32.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  16. #216

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    Length is good, Mike. I can't check the angle, but I think they look OK.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  17. #217
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  18. #218

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    Is version 1.0 found here the latest version of the file?

  19. #219

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    It is. However see also planes being added to the 2.0 list:
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...or-the-V2-list

    and correction to the 1.0 planes:
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...-and-additions

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  20. #220

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    Why there is problem opening those aircraft cards?

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