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Thread: Official Curtiss-Wright CW-21 Painting Thread

  1. #1

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    Default Official Curtiss-Wright CW-21 Painting Thread

    This is one of my test subjects*. It's a Shapeways 3D model from Dragoman's Depot http://www.shapeways.com/product/65Y...ionId=12301576

    I painted it with Vallejo Model Color paints - Flat Green and Sky Gray. Wing insignia are decals from I-94 Enterprises. The tail markings are from Miscellaneous Miniatures, LLC.

    *I was testing different methods for smoothing the grainy surface of the WSF material. I've not yet found the magic formula.

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  2. #2

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    Try 3 coats of diluted white glue before painting. For difficult areas - wing joints etc - use one coat undiluted. Undercoat, gloss varnish, paint, decal, varnish again.

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    Thanks Zoe, I'll give that a try.

  4. #4

    Default Curtiss-Wright CW-21 Demon

    Two CW-21Bs of the Militaire Luchtvaart van het Koninklijk Nederlands-Indisch Leger (Netherlands East Indies Army air force) patrolling the skies over Java, late January 1942. Dragoman's Depot WSF models with Vallejo and Model Master paint, I-94 Enterprises and home made (the aircraft number) decals, and AA prop discs.

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    Last edited by flash; 09-04-2017 at 09:25.

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    Very cool. My interest in the Dutch in the Pacific is growing to a point where I'll have to get some soon.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Very cool. My interest in the Dutch in the Pacific is growing to a point where I'll have to get some soon.
    They're interesting little airplanes. Demons didn't have a great combat record with either the NEI or Nationalist Chinese, but they're more like Japanese fighters in terms of performance and design philosophy than just about any other Western fighter.

  7. #7

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    Well painted, Darryl! You will have to find out whether the unofficial stats committee can come up with some for those planes.

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    Thank you, gentlemen. Should be interesting to see what the committee decides; CW-21s didn't have quite the maneuverability of Ki-43s or A6Ms but they could definitely climb--Curtiss-Wright designed the Demon as an interceptor for the export market.

  9. #9

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    I rated them with the C deck, A/A guns, 14 damage, 12 ceiling, 3 climb.
    Fairly compatible with the Oscar and the Zero.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  10. #10

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    Very nice Darryl, thread merged with official painting thread.

    "He is wise who watches"

  11. #11

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    Default

    Especially if we add the tight turn card and reduce the damage to 12 for the early Zero's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I rated them with the C deck, A/A guns, 14 damage, 12 ceiling, 3 climb.
    Fairly compatible with the Oscar and the Zero.
    Karl
    See you on the Dark Side......

  12. #12

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    Aii, Aiii, having seen /read this I feel compelled to add some CW-21's to my NEIAF airfleet ... need to get a raise of pocket money for 2018 ...
    now ... how to start ... dear Y(ou)WMBO ... hmm ...

    cheers,
    Guus
    "zet 'm op ... witte muizen !" (strijdkreet van 1e JaVa, Luchtvaart Afdeling, Nederland 1940)
    "let's go get them ... white mice !" (battlecry of the 1st Fighter Group, Army Air Force, Netherlands 1940)

  13. #13

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    Here is my flight of CW-21b’s. My first attempt at Shapeways.

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    This plane was is inspired by this picture where all the CW-21’s looked the same. It is probably when they were first delivered.
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    This guy was inspired by this picture. It appears that they put stripes on the planes at some point.

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    Some well researched modelers have painted these in much darker browns. It’s actually tough to tell what was real as all the period photos are so over-exposed.

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    This guy was inspired by this picture;
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    Here is the happy family showing different angles;
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    With the lack of detail, I fount these tough to paint and although they’ll do great in the game, I wish they could have come put better. Cards will be coming out next!

  14. #14

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    Absolutely no guarantee on the stats, but how about this:

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    [Edit: Updated with new stats.]
    [Edit: Updated with new stats and correct camo for Hermann.]
    Note: This plane configuration is with 2 .50 Cal MGs and 2 .30 Cal MGs.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-07-2020 at 10:13.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  15. #15

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    On the unofficial stats sheet have the Dutch CW-21 with Maneuver deck C, Strenght 14, Firing A / A.

  16. #16

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    Peter, Do you think it should also get the extreme side slips and turns like the Zero? Everything I’ve read says it was very similar.

    Mike, the card looks great, as usual! One comment is that all of the historical pictures I’ve seen of this plane show no insignia on the upper wing surfaces.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    On the unofficial stats sheet have the Dutch CW-21 with Maneuver deck C, Strenght 14, Firing A / A.
    Figures. I looked all through the USA planes and didn't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dak21 View Post
    Peter, Do you think it should also get the extreme side slips and turns like the Zero? Everything I’ve read says it was very similar.

    Mike, the card looks great, as usual! One comment is that all of the historical pictures I’ve seen of this plane show no insignia on the upper wing surfaces.
    Yeah. I found a paint scheme online from a model with the roundels on the upper wings. As per the bombers, they may have painted them off for the first few months, and then repainted them back on.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  18. #18

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    Yes, I think they should have the same added cards to the C deck as the Zero and Oscar. What I've read says the same. They were very agile but lightly armed, no pilot protection or self sealing fuel tanks.

    Top wing insignia, by the time hostilities started they were gone but I will have at least one plane with them...because it looks cool.

    Dave, by the way, very nice Demons.

  19. #19

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    Thanks Peter. I agree that coolness influences my painting choices from time to time. So does making sure you can quickly differentiate the planes on the table two hours into a game that your managing five or six planes. As long as the paint scheme is historical in nature, I’m okay if it isn’t exact to a plane or date.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    On the unofficial stats sheet have the Dutch CW-21 with Maneuver deck C, Strenght 14, Firing A / A.
    The guns should be B-A/A

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    The guns should be B-A/A

    Karl
    Ah, I saw on the unofficial stats list the Chinese CW-21 was B-A / A but the Dutch was A / A. I was wondering why they were different but didn't ask.

  22. #22

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    Redid the first card, corrected the color scheme for the 'Hermann' plane (see above), as well as adding a Nationalist Chinese card for the first plane in the showcase.

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    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  23. #23

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    Here is my first draft at a CW-21B to match my paint schemes. This time incorporating a few of the snazzy techniques I have been picking up from Mike lately. It's no where near as sophisticated technically, but each time, I get a little better. This time I added the idea of shading to the canopy glass and improved my shadows a little bit. Still a long way to go! Thanks again Mike for your efforts to share ideas!

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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Ah, I saw on the unofficial stats list the Chinese CW-21 was B-A / A but the Dutch was A / A. I was wondering why they were different but didn't ask.
    Interesting; I must have found a reference for the Dutch AF (Europe) having at least 1, obviously a prototype, with 2 x 30cal MGs. A quick trawl doesn't show any on hand for the war in 1940.
    If I can't verify, I'll delete the reference for the V2.0 release.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  25. #25

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    Although largely anecdotal, everything I’ve been able to find says the CW-21b was built to house 2 x 30 cal and 2 x 50 cal guns. They were mounted in the nose to fire through the propeller. An option for two more wing mounted guns is mentioned as well. There are also lots of documents that indicate they were very similar in armament and maneuverability to the Zero. That said, I could find no official document that outright states that as a fact. Here is a clip from a related article;

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    That’s pretty much what I was going to go with unless someone found something more factual.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Interesting; I must have found a reference for the Dutch AF (Europe) having at least 1, obviously a prototype, with 2 x 30cal MGs. A quick trawl doesn't show any on hand for the war in 1940.
    If I can't verify, I'll delete the reference for the V2.0 release.
    Karl
    Quote Originally Posted by Dak21 View Post
    Although largely anecdotal, everything I’ve been able to find says the CW-21b was built to house 2 x 30 cal and 2 x 50 cal guns. They were mounted in the nose to fire through the propeller. An option for two more wing mounted guns is mentioned as well. There are also lots of documents that indicate they were very similar in armament and maneuverability to the Zero. That said, I could find no official document that outright states that as a fact. Here is a clip from a related article;

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That’s pretty much what I was going to go with unless someone found something more factual.
    I haven't found any 'official' documents, but I have seen the armament for this plane as: 2 x .30 Cal MGs; 4 x .30 Cal MGs; and 2 x .30 Cal and 2 x .50 Cal MGs. All were synchronized to fire through the propeller. There was mention of wing mountings, as well, but not whether they were ever used.

    So, depending on what was installed in the field, damage could be: A/A, B/A, or A+B/A.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-07-2020 at 14:54.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  27. #27

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    I would agree Mike. The one thing that makes me lean away from the A+B/A option is that in the many available pictures of Dutch CW-21’s, I’ve never noticed any wing guns.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dak21 View Post
    I would agree Mike. The one thing that makes me lean away from the A+B/A option is that in the many available pictures of Dutch CW-21’s, I’ve never noticed any wing guns.
    Dave,
    The A+B/A option is the 2 x .30 Cal and 2 x .50 Cal MG fitment. Twin .50 Cals or quad .30 Cals equals B damage.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Interesting; I must have found a reference for the Dutch AF (Europe) having at least 1, obviously a prototype, with 2 x 30cal MGs. A quick trawl doesn't show any on hand for the war in 1940.
    If I can't verify, I'll delete the reference for the V2.0 release.
    Karl
    Hi Karl,

    No CW-21s in the fight in Europe but the KNIL had 17 in Java.

    Some more Dutch to consider for 2.0, KNIL Hawk 75, Do 24T, Catalina, Koolhoven FK-51.
    Dutch in Europe, Fokker G-1, Fokker T-5, Fokker C-5 & C-10.

    I wonder where I'm heading.
    Last edited by Teaticket; 06-07-2020 at 15:07.

  30. #30

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    I actually have a Do-24 primed and ready to paint on deck next. It would be great to have some stats for it!

    Mike, in response to your last comment on gunnery, you’re correct, thank you.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Hi Karl,

    No CW-21s in the fight in Europe but the KNIL had 17 in Java.

    Some more Dutch to consider for 2.0, KNIL Hawk 75, Do 24T, Catalina, Koolhoven FK-51.
    Dutch in Europe, Fokker G-1, Fokker T-5, Fokker C-5 & C-10.

    I wonder where I'm heading.
    Peter,....
    Mike already did make cards for the Fokker G.1, D.XXI, C.X and T.V ... So..., start painting, there's no way out
    Cheers,
    Guus

    ... and DAK-21 made cards for the ML-KNIL Hawk 75
    "zet 'm op ... witte muizen !" (strijdkreet van 1e JaVa, Luchtvaart Afdeling, Nederland 1940)
    "let's go get them ... white mice !" (battlecry of the 1st Fighter Group, Army Air Force, Netherlands 1940)

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aardvark1430 View Post
    Peter,....
    Mike already did make cards for the Fokker G.1, D.XXI, C.X and T.V ... So..., start painting, there's no way out
    Cheers,
    Guus

    ... and DAK-21 made cards for the ML-KNIL Hawk 75
    Thanks Guus, I hadn't seen these.

    I didn't see any stats for the Fokker G.1, C.X, T.V. ... so I was nudging our expert Karl to maybe work these up.

    Where/what are these? I'll have to check Mike's albums for these cards. We still need stats and card for the Do 24T.

    Peter

  33. #33

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    and btw, the planes are in my album "defending the Netherlands"

    cheers,
    Guus

    edit:
    I just noticed I haven't put the Douglas Northrop 8A's in that album yet
    Last edited by Aardvark1430; 06-08-2020 at 08:33.
    "zet 'm op ... witte muizen !" (strijdkreet van 1e JaVa, Luchtvaart Afdeling, Nederland 1940)
    "let's go get them ... white mice !" (battlecry of the 1st Fighter Group, Army Air Force, Netherlands 1940)

  34. #34

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    Here are the other two cards for the two planes as I painted them.
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  35. #35

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    Good work everyone! What struck me about the Curtiss CW-21B Demon was the similarity of its cockpit canopy with that on a Corsair.



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