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Thread: Circuits and Bumps I

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    Lightbulb Circuits and Bumps I

    'Well I started out, down a dirty road ...' - Tom Petty.

    As I am learning the basics of Wings of Glory WW2 (WGS) and trying not to spend too much on aircraft miniatures which are available to collect I appear to have stumbled upon a good way of psychologically pacing myself with regard to both. Add to this the fact that I have just had to sellotape and hand draw my own gaming mat made from A4 paper sheets and it was at this stage the penny dropped. Given how I currently own just two Gloster Gladiator bi-planes anyway the shooting cannot start yet. So why not use them on training sorties first? You know ... circuits and bumps / traffic patterns, ground reference manoeuvers and so forth. Anybody with a real life pilot's license will know exactly what this idea is all about!

    OK I will accept that cross-country flying within a 90 cm x 90 cm environment is not exactly up to much but there is fun to be had when adding wind to Visual Flight Rules (VFR) flying. Especially to Ground Reference Manoeuvers such as eights on objects and circling an object where the wind can and does alter the shape of what is being performed and needs to be compensated for. There is also a three go-arounds rule in force concerning my mat's airfield which can at times be affected by wind but has not been so far - mostly involved with flying traffic patterns.

    Some time in the future with the rules mastered and a proper gaming mat / realistic opposition to my credit is when the shooting here will commence. But until then this is proving to be quite a fun idea. Question is has this been done before or could this be a first for Wings of Glory: A form of solo play on which you score your first solo flight? I just feel that this is a great way to prevent new players from accidentally exceeding their confidence levels / breaking the bank buying miniatures / adding or enhancing realism in those early and critical days. This idea is helping me if it is new - hopefully it may be useful in helping others in the same ways.

    Aussietonka
    Last edited by Tonx; 02-14-2016 at 14:38. Reason: Change Title.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussietonka View Post
    'Well I started out, down a dirty road ...' - Tom Petty.

    As I am learning the basics of Wings of Glory WW2 (WGS) and trying not to spend too much on aircraft miniatures which are available to collect I appear to have stumbled upon a good way of psychologically pacing myself with regard to both. Add to this the fact that I have just had to sellotape and hand draw my own gaming mat made from A4 paper sheets and it was at this stage the penny dropped. Given how I currently own just two Gloster Gladiator bi-planes anyway the shooting cannot start yet. So why not use them on training sorties first? You know ... circuits and bumps / traffic patterns, ground reference manoeuvers and so forth. Anybody with a real life pilot's license will know exactly what this idea is all about!

    OK I will accept that cross-country flying within a 90 cm x 90 cm environment is not exactly up to much but there is fun to be had when adding wind to Visual Flight Rules (VFR) flying. Especially to Ground Reference Manoeuvers such as eights on objects and circling an object where the wind can and does alter the shape of what is being performed and needs to be compensated for. There is also a three go-arounds rule in force concerning my mat's airfield which can at times be affected by wind but has not been so far - mostly involved with flying traffic patterns.

    Some time in the future with the rules mastered and a proper gaming mat / realistic opposition to my credit is when the shooting here will commence. But until then this is proving to be quite a fun idea. Question is has this been done before or could this be a first for Wings of Glory: A form of solo play on which you score your first solo flight? I just feel that this is a great way to prevent new players from accidentally exceeding their confidence levels / breaking the bank buying miniatures / adding or enhancing realism in those early and critical days. This idea is helping me if it is new - hopefully it may be useful in helping others in the same ways.

    Aussietonka
    G'day Barney!
    Dont remember anyone doing this before but then as you know "never say never!"
    Sounds like a great idea to learn what your aircraft are capable of doing.
    Perhaps you could include test firing at ground targets as well.

    You really do need to "lash out" & grap a couple of those Italian Biplanes as adversaries.

  3. #3

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    The Re2001 FalcoII is also still available on the Aerodrome store, and is doable by the Gladiator if you hone your maneuverability skills to combat its extra speed Barney.
    This is a very good way to improve your combat skills.
    Bye the bye if you find this thread has gone it will have been moved by Eric or the Oberst to The WW2 Forum.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    HUGE Thank you for the responses and assistance towards this idea so far. I especially like the idea of the Gloster Gladiator being opposed by the Reggiane Re.2001 Falco II / Re.2002 Ariete as I am familiar with that aircraft type. Have built three in 1/72 scale in my time - kits by Supermodel and Italaeri. Like the Fiat G-50Bis the aircraft looks like a pushover on sight ... But these small single seater fighters were soon to start proving otherwise.

    The Ground Target idea is just fantastic in terms of 'progression' with this - will buy a Z Gauge scale road vehicle or two to use when things reach this stage unless something better and more to-scale is available. Am currently going to have a go at creating my own proper gaming mat as opposed to staying with my current own creation from sellotape, A4 paper and hand-drawings. Which will mean losing the kangaroos sadly but in the name of enhanced game play and better experience overall.

    Because of the way I have been encouraged and treated so well both on here and when playing WGS at conventions / events I was hoping that sharing this 'learning to fly' idea would start to give / contribute something back in return. Should this have been moved to another more appropriate posting-location then that is both fine and for me to learn from. Best Regards.

    Aussietonka
    Last edited by Tonx; 03-09-2015 at 23:11. Reason: Omission of Re.2000 and inclusion of Re.2002 instead!

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    UPDATE: On March 4th 2015 the first mission using Basic Rules and based upon this idea was played ... and it worked extremely well. Two people were involved: My wife and I both flying Gloster Gladiator Mk 1 aircraft (Pattle / Burges.)

    Featuring my brand new and though self-created not hand-drawn this time Gaming Mat 'Green and Pleasant Land' was written by myself using Basic Rules. But no firing. The goal here is to relax and have fun exploring the variety of manoeuvres which are available and performable using this aircraft type. Not only does this incorporate the in-game Immelmann and Stall moves but also some real-life flight proficiency manoeuvers like 'eights on trees' and circling objects. Before I knew it and with two of us playing over 90 minutes had passed by uninterrupted. Reference to the rule book was always made throughout but learning the basics this way by scoring a 'first solo' in the Gloster Gladiator in the process was tons better than just sitting and reading the rule book uncreatively all about it.

    The proof of this idea's success was that within around 15 minutes I had thought up a second mission which built upon everything learned so far ... Whilst introducing both a third aircraft as well as shot-ranges at a learner-friendly pace into the equation. This was dubbed 'The Italian Job' as the goal centred upon the third aircraft miniature to join my collection of Gloster Gladiators: A Reggiane Re.2001 Falco II (the Metellini edition) which required intercepting by the two aircraft from the first mission. Not sure as yet as to exactly how the Re.2001 infiltrated the operational training area but this is what occurred diverting us from flight practice D-> intercept and release of tracer bullets only as would have occurred in WW2 should no communication by radio from the Re.2001 been received. An effective combination of factual knowledge and creativity which contributed loads to the learning of Wings of Glory 2 WW2 (WGS.) Next time any of this gets done I will make sure I have my camera handy so I can support this Mission Report with a photo album on my Profile.

    Aussietonka

  6. #6

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    There you go Barney.
    In the right place now.
    Don't worry about it, because even we old hands drop one into the wrong thread from time to time.
    It's almost inevitable with the vast input of posts. Well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
    Please carry on with this very interesting discussion.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  7. #7

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    There was a solo scenario produced to play the ending of King Kong. You can find details at http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...highlight=Kong Follow the link to Board Game Geek lower down the thread.

    It was designed for WW1 aircraft so you may need to adapt it slightly for your Gladiators, if you fancy playing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    There was a solo scenario produced to play the ending of King Kong. You can find details at http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...highlight=Kong Follow the link to Board Game Geek lower down the thread.

    It was designed for WW1 aircraft so you may need to adapt it slightly for your Gladiators, if you fancy playing it.
    Wow! Somebody was inspired in the thinking up of that one ... Shows just what a versatile game Wings of Glory can be.

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    Some Photographs as promised from a replay of 'The Italian Job' (March 7th 2015) where everything was VFR flight practice until a rogue Reggiane Re.2001 Falco II infiltrates the training airspace. This time there was a skirmish unlike the last time this Mission was played on March 5th 2015 (Galactic Models Gaming Night) ... On that occasion the Falco II was just lost. This time the Falco II fired

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    Brand new gaming mat as built by myself on March 5th 2015 ...

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    Reggiane Re.2001 Falco II (Infiltrator requiring IFF)

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    Gloster Gladiator Mk 1 (Friendly)

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    The Airfield on brand new gaming mat ... Replaces all those kangaroos which my old sellotape / A4 paper hand-drawn mat featured

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    First Encounter ... Gladiator Vs Falco II

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    Falco II Immelmann Time ... Via Avanti!

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    Gladiator Mk 1 'I think I have something ...'

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    Gladiator Mk 1 'I am b****y glad I flew that Green and Pleasant Land Mission ... The blighter looks like he is going to attack!'

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    Skirmish! Shots Fired (Gladiator taking three damage points)
    Last edited by Tonx; 03-09-2015 at 10:16.

  10. #10

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    I am super pumped for you Barnaby...

    I love the flying aspect of this game just as much as the combat...

    If you are interested, check out http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...gn-s-Challenge

    Don't bother with the carrier and bombing stuff, but run yourself through the special maneuvers from the game itself.

    Also, this is my favorite airfield map. Print each section at the same scale... I like using a full page for each quarter map.

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    It is so cool how you are approaching this game by accumulating stick time... Super cool good sir...

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    THIS is more like it ... A re-run of 'Green and Pleasant Land' was staged on March 9th 2015 in my kitchen at home. Although practicing stalls and Immelmanns cannot be seen Ground Reference Manoeuvres feature in this Gloster Sea Gladiator 'tootle' ... During which I noticed what this aircraft is capable of turns-wise that the Reggiane Re.2001 Falco II (usually end up playing the Falco II against the Wife re-running our version of 'The Italian Job' - see earlier) cannot manage. In real life flying is a constant learning environment. So it strikes me is Wings of Glory after this latest discovery today ... Here are some of the latest photos.

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    Gaming mat set up March 9th 2015

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    What we need: Basic Rules Apply. Shoe lace for using to track path flight has taken (optional)

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    Working cockpit ready for use: Gloster Sea Gladiator aircraft card

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    Gloster Sea Gladiator aircraft miniature

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    Start Position: Airfield. Ready for some practice?

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    Climb out of airfield: This does not require oodles of altitude (optional)

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    Ground Reference Manoeuver photo 1: Circuit upon tree

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    Ground Reference Manoeuver photo 2: Circuit upon tree

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    Ground Reference Manoeuver photo 3: Circuit upon tree

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    Recovery to Airfield: Base Leg

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    Recovery to Airfield: Base Leg to Long Final Approach

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    Finish Position: Airfield - home for tea with mum!
    Last edited by Tonx; 03-09-2015 at 17:46. Reason: Include photo captions

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    Quote Originally Posted by THECCRICH View Post
    If you are interested, check out http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...gn-s-Challenge

    Don't bother with the carrier and bombing stuff, but run yourself through the special maneuvers from the game itself.

    It is so cool how you are approaching this game by accumulating stick time... Super cool good sir...
    Thank you very much I am just off to take a look there now. Also thinking kudos for your idea of putting your home or favourite airfield on your Gaming Mat - what a fantastic and also a motivating idea when it comes to learning!

    Though I have the Boeing MD-11F in my logbook I remain very much a stick and rudder kid ... I don't do I-Pods as I said to somebody rather loudly back in 2005!

    Aussietonka

  13. #13

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    Going great there Barney!
    Glad to see the "obligatory" bottle of Red Wine on the Table for the Pilots when the mission is completed.

  14. #14

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    At this rate you will soon be ready for a convoy patrol in home waters Barney.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    At this rate you will soon be ready for a convoy patrol in home waters Barney.
    Rob.
    The Wife has just expressly forbidden me from flooding the kitchen when she read this post

    But on a more serious note I wish we could have stayed around at Hammerhead to see how the Malta-based scenario worked. Have seen the photos all of which look excellent

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    Just a quick note to say that Circuits and Bumps now has twin-engine aircraft in the air ... This idea helped to gain great appreciation for the difference in flying these aircraft to flying a single-engine fighter. It demonstrates just what more engines plus more size and bulk means in terms of agility and manoeuvrability depletion. Also gains understanding of how easy in a confined space it is to just accidentally fly off the board (and out of the scenario) without forward planning more further ahead the nearer the aircraft gets to the edge of the gaming mat ...

    Some photos of the first flight practice session involving the Bristol Beaufighter and Messerschmitt Bf 110 twin-engine aircraft practicing stalls and 'eights on trees' which given the lack of Gloster Gladiator-style tight turns were enormous in terms of how much gaming mat area the latter (Ground Reference) manoeuvre covered. Also available to practice was what looked like an Immelmann card ... In a Bristol Beaufighter? I would say that this was more of a Chandelle card than an Immelmann card - Chandelles being named after another WW1 air ace. With almost the same result as an Immelmann turn a Chandelle has more of a horizontal component to it than vertical and does not entail exceeding 45 to 75 degrees bank angle!

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  17. #17

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    To exemplify what you have said about the chandelle Barney you might find thisd old thread from 2011 interesting.

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...ight=Chandelle

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    To exemplify what you have said about the chandelle Barney you might find this old thread from 2011 interesting.

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...ight=Chandelle

    Rob.
    Good Morning Sir,

    I found this old thread very interesting and have extracted the following from it.

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    This should illustrate why I reckon so strongly that Chandelles apply to twin-engine multi crewed aircraft instead of this manoeuver which is only really suitable for single-engine aircraft of smaller shape and size.

    The Chandelle is still used today over in the USA as a flight proficiency manoeuvre: Anybody who has ever flown the practical 'check-ride' for the US DoT FAA Commercial Pilots' License (CPL) will have had to perform a Chandelle successfully or if not will certainly have had to study them. Given how many CPL 'check-rides' are flown using aircraft with gravity-feed fuel engines in which inverted flight is not recommended / prohibited there has to be far more horizontal than vertical component in turning this sharp and snappy 180 degree manoeuvre.

    Thanks for this one - the experience gained practicing with the twin-engine types is raising the question for me at the moment: If this is flying twins within a 90 cm x 90 cm gaming mat what is flying the four-engine Heavies going to be like? Hopefully not too much of a goldfish bowl / too many collisions!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussietonka View Post
    Good Morning Sir,



    Thanks for this one - the experience gained practicing with the twin-engine types is raising the question for me at the moment: If this is flying twins within a 90 cm x 90 cm gaming mat what is flying the four-engine Heavies going to be like? Hopefully not too much of a goldfish bowl / too many collisions!
    We do tend towards the four mat option with the larger aircraft Barney.
    However, the space time continuum as I call it comes into effect. They move much more slowly than a scout. Also using the altitude rules means you can vary the height of your aircraft making collisions less likely. Then they don't make any sudden changes in direction either, so that helps to keep order in the ranks. If large numbers are in action together we tend to fly in a box formation where one card is selected for all aircraft and they all carry out the same evolution perform much like a team of synchronized air swimmers.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    Practice Makes Perfect ... Part 1: How do you carry on flying / fighting in a Gloster Sea Gladiator with a Reggiane Re.2001 Falco II up it's rear end and a left and right turn jam?

    It is possible as practicing the other day revealed. Only in the latest Kitchen Skirmish with the Wife playing Axis side the unthinkable only went and happened.

    The skirmish ended with an Immelmann followed by a jammy close-range shot by the Sea Gladiator upon the opposition ... and pop! Mid-air explosion

    How to get out of the turn-prevention situation would have not occurred to me without 1) real world flying experience and 2) flight practice session yesterday when I thought of what to do should this happen and used side-step manoeuvres and Immelmann turns in order to get around the rest of the session and also get around a constrictive 90 cm x 90 cm gaming mat where Basic Rules apply - for now anyway. Worth noting if you are a learner / novice flyer.

  21. #21

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    You raise an interesting facet of this game here Barney.
    How often a course of action which seems forced upon one and which we would never contemplate as sensible in normal circumstances gives an unforeseen outcome.
    i had the same sort of instance not long ago. On fire and forced into a series of turns. At the mercy of my enemy, he kept turning in front of my aircraft no matter which way my gyrations took me. Instead of being easy meat, I could not help but shoot him out of the sky.
    What luck. Savor it when it happens. You may be on the receiving end next time. That's what makes this game so much fun.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    Can get a full day's practice in today ... Especially with the first Spitfires arriving onto the scene. Next week I will be purchasing two Fw 190Ds to oppose these. Spitfires arrived today (Saturday.)

    Going to read through the full range of incapacitations with the opportunity open to do so and see what each of them results in. Then look at counteractive measures. After all that total turn jam I came up with a few days ago went and happened and rather than panicking and thinking 'all was FUBAR' I knew exactly what to do. Been waiting to get my hands on a Spitfire so cannot wait until this flight 'pracs' session begins ...

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    Came up with a bit of a suggestion today regarding the collection of miniatures at a sensible pace. The idea given what it centres upon is more applicable to WGS / WW2 but could easily be transferrable across to WGF and WW1 ...

    DOGFIGHT DOUBLES: As per the old Airfix pairings. Theming collecting miniatures for this game is difficult unless you want a whole load of practice-firing sessions or worse on your hands. So setting out with 'this month it is Spitfires, next month it is Fw 190Ds' like is doable with many other model ranges may very well have to give way to an alternative methodology of collecting. This idea I thought up on the Skylink bus between East Midlands Airport (Boeing E-3 Sentry AEW Mk 1 shooting some practice approaches today) and Derby as I was returning home.

    The Airfix 'Dogfight Doubles' pairings (for those not already aware) began life during the mid-1960s - the first one ever being iconic in the shape of the 1/72 Spitfire Mk IX and Messerschmitt Bf 110D. These came as a twin-pack of unbuilt and unpainted kits and unlike the most recent re-releases of them did not include glue and paints. A second pairing made out of the 1/72 Bristol Beaufighter TF Mk X and the Messerschmitt Bf 109G then appeared during the late 1960s - early 1970s. Following three such further pairings which included the 1/72 scale DH 98 Mosquito and Messerschmitt Me 262A Airfix decided on a different theme for their pairing up of kits. Such as the 'Channel Dash' comprising of a 1/72 Spitfire Mk Vb and Fairey Swordfish and then their latest offering of 1/72 Hawker Sea Hurricane and Fairey Swordfish - the combination carrying American markings but I am not sure of the name: This also may have been an Airfix Club Release only but follows along the same lines: two-in-one.

    To start with in the current series replicating a Spitfire Mk IX versus Messerschmitt Bf 110 combination is simple: there are three different models of each to firstly choose from and then ultimately collect. I have checked the excellent retail-outlet on this website and all models were available on the date of this posting. Creating the second combination when one is ready to do so would (suggestion) feature the Bristol Beaufighter and Focke Wulf Fw 190D as opposed to the Messerschmitt Bf 109 unless one of the out of production Me 109 miniatures can be found. But again there are three combinations available: My aim on this combination is definitely to collect all of these miniatures as I am a fan of the Bristol Beaufighter. From this point onwards we are on our own as no further pairings by Airfix were ever released. But if one is lucky from time to time the 'Wings of War' twin-packs appear occasionally on 'the E-Bay' featuring other such appropriate pairings of WW2 and WW1 fighters which are fully compatible with WGS / WGF. BUT ... At a price I have found as is also frequently the case with any Me 109 miniatures seen on offer.

    So further suggestions following in the footsteps of 'Dogfight Doubles' ... Begin with the Gloster Sea Gladiator versus the Reggiane Re.2001 Falco II if one aims to historically replicate the Seige of Malta (1940) or the Gloster Gladiator Mk 1 versus the Italian Cr 42 bi-plane if one aims to create pairings of equal capability: Where a pairing of the Norwegian Gladiator (Krohn) versus any Cr 42 would possibly turn a few heads when seen in action! There is of course the possibility of further mix-and-match options involving Spitfire Mk IX / Bristol Beaufighter aircraft versus the Messerschmitt Bf 110 / Focke Wulf Fw 190D like what I am currently getting up to with my collection of WGS miniatures. On the Pacific War front a Curtis P-40 or N A P-51D Mustang would prove to be effective opponents to the Nakajima Type 84 Hayate and other Japanese fighters which are currently available. Should you be lucky enough to find the Curtis P-40 'Hill' and add it to your collection then this aircraft really is Pacific Theater-specific as it carries the Kunming 'Flying Tigers' markings which first appeared in 1942.

    The only aircraft I really am struggling to find historical opponents other than (just about) the Focke Wulf Fw 190D is the Yakovlev Yak-1: Two of which are available in Russian markings. Has anybody got any suggestions please so that this important Soviet type of aircraft does not find itself nearly left out of this discussion?

    This is another idea I am sharing in the hope that other WGS fans whose interest like mine is in it's early stages may find this helpful rather than just doing nothing with it. However more importantly to bear in mind is how easily transferrable this idea is across to WGF where the situation regarding collecting miniatures must surely be similar if not the same ...
    Last edited by Tonx; 03-17-2015 at 05:16. Reason: Substitute Yak-3 for Yak-1 WGS Miniature

  24. #24

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    Following talk of a third pairing of 1/72 scale DH 98 Mosquito and Messerschmitt Me Bf 109 which never appeared....
    They did pair the Mossie with the Me262 however

    EDIT: an interesting piece on the Dogfight Doubles series and their lovely artwork here.....

    http://bearalley.blogspot.co.uk/2013...-dogfight.html
    Last edited by David Manley; 03-16-2015 at 10:45.

  25. #25

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    I bought the WW1 Dogfight Doubles "Camel and Albatros" pairing the Sopwith with the DIII. I think there was another one, pairing the Bristol Fighter with something.................................
    Last edited by Flying Helmut; 03-16-2015 at 11:04.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    They did pair the Mossie with the Me262 however

    EDIT: an interesting piece on the Dogfight Doubles series and their lovely artwork here.....

    http://bearalley.blogspot.co.uk/2013...-dogfight.html
    That's right Airfix did pair these two up didn't they? Thank you very much for this and your link to further pointers on this series of Airfix offerings.

    Just hoping that this suggestion proves to be of some use somewhere - WGS or WGF Newcomers

  27. #27

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    Great stuff, Barney. I see a great deal of devotion to the Game there.
    I especially like the first pic in post #9. I am sure your wife and you enjoyed those two wines throughout the game, right. Good man!
    The force is strong with this one, don't you think chaps?.

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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    I bought the WW1 Dogfight Doubles "Camel and Albatros" pairing the Sopwith with the DIII. I think there was another one, pairing the Bristol Fighter with something.................................

  29. #29

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    That's the one!
    Never did manage to find one, though.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    The force is strong with this one, don't you think chaps?.
    Thank you very much for that comment. All of these ideas which I am commenting upon are in return for the way I have been welcomed and treated so far since my interest in WGS began. I really have met some fantastic people and had an excellent time courtesy of their advice (tuition at times) and comments in return to mine as has the Wife who plays too.

    Until I am fully up and running as a WGS fanatic and player what am I able to offer in return? A spot of creativity and a desire to share learning experience particularly with other learners rather than just sitting on these ideas. This IMHO is called 'giving something back' as I am a firm believer in both this and contributing to / supporting interests and hobbies when the chance arises to do so ...
    Last edited by Tonx; 03-16-2015 at 11:27. Reason: Change of end sentence.

  31. #31

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    Whoa ... Having just flown our first skirmish where Normal Rules applied instead of Basic Rules the Wife and I have just stumbled upon something interesting. Concerning climb and dive manoeuver cards.

    These only enter Wings of Glory gameplay when using Advanced Rules according to the WGS Starter Pack rule book. Whereas I had previously been using them to perform landings and take-offs from an Airstrip facility located on my Gaming Mat where altitude gain and loss are obviously both required. My question which has arisen from this is do the majority of WGF and WGS games start and finish in the air / finish with aircraft effectively just 'flying off the Gaming Mat' ...

    This revelation from the rule book implies that landings and take-offs are not required. Also I noted how during the first WGS game I played (at Hammerhead 2015 with most excellent live tuition from Johnbiggles) my aircraft started in the air. Then having sustained heavy damage towards my exit from the game I asked 'nearest airfield' with setting down in mind (confusion with real world flying) but was shot down during the next turn anyway. Would not be fair to mention this excellent game (The WGS Pie Factory Scenario) but not to mention the Wife's equally as excellent Live Tutor Flying Officer Kyte. This game and those involved in playing it was the first inspiration we had in taking our interest in WGS up as seriously as we have done: Thank you BIG style

    So just in case anybody has been wondering what I have been up to using climb and dive cards whilst still playing under Basic Rules conditions this I guess is all part of the constant learning environment IMHO which is Wings of Glory. Due to its importance to our learning process here are a few photos of the first outing two brand new Spitfire Mk IXs have just taken around our kitchen on March 16th 2015 to add to this posting. As flown by the Wife and I ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Gaming mat set up March 16th 2015 with both aircraft in position

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    Aircraft manoeuver cards ... Check out the size of THESE beauts!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    More wine bottles in the Flight Practice Area (we are in the kitchen after all!)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Practice Skirmish - if we were firing this would count as a close range shot

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    Supermarine Spitfire Mk IXs heading towards avoidance of flying off the gaming mat

    Aussietonka
    Last edited by Tonx; 03-16-2015 at 16:56. Reason: Inclusion of photo captions

  32. #32

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    G'day Barney!
    Most games that we play at our games club & indeed here on the Forum Solo Campaigns start with the Aircraft in the Air.
    If playing Altitude, which we do not necessarily use all the time, we specify starting at say Altitude 4 or higher. Depending on the scenario you might have one side with a height advantage for high level bombing or a flight higher to swoop down on an unsuspecting opponent.
    You just choose what you want to do or what feels right for a particular game.

  33. #33

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    Barnaby, could you not pair a Yak3 against a Messerschmitt Bf110 or Messerschmitt Bf109 (if you can find one)?

  34. #34

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    Nice to meet you and your Good Lady at Hammerhead Barney. I only wish all my pupils were as attentive.
    I tend to fly on and off table as Baz suggests.
    However, sometimes it is good to try a scramble from the airfield in the face of an enemy attack, or landing and takeoff to refuel/rearm during a scenario. You may also need to deliver a spy/arms, radio parts etc to the Resistance.
    The only time I land on at the end of a game is if the plane is so badly damaged or pilot wounded during a Campaign game that a crash landing is plausible. Optional Rules for this are used in our Solo campaigns. Carrier landings are also good fun to try, and you can add touches such as sea conditions, wind force etc if you wish.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    Barnaby, could you not pair a Yak3 against a Messerschmitt Bf110 or Messerschmitt Bf109 (if you can find one)?
    These pairings are possible for the Yakovlev Yak 3 - as is the Junkers Ju-87 Stuka but again it is being able to find one ...

    to anybody who is able to pair your two suggestions off against the Yak 3 - please post as to how these Dogfight Doubles perform. Or Yak 3 vs Junkers Ju-87 Stuka now the suggestion is there.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    Barnaby, could you not pair a Yak3 against a Messerschmitt Bf110 or Messerschmitt Bf109 (if you can find one)?
    One problem is we do not have an official Yak-3 mini so far, but if you meant Yak-1, it can be paired perfectly.
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  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    One problem is we do not have an official Yak-3 mini so far, but if you meant Yak-1, it can be paired perfectly.
    Just realised the miniature which I thought was a Yak-3 is in fact a Yak-1 ... Please accept my apologies for that Perfect Dud which began during the initial 'Dogfight Doubles' posting further up.

    Yakovlev Yak-1 which contributed loads design-wise to the Yak-3 could still be effectively paired up with the Junkers Ju-87 Stuka / Messerschmitts Bf 109 (if it can be found) and Bf 110

    Now here is an excellent one: Opponents for Dewoitine D520 aircraft both Allied and Axis sides. Another miniature which I have noticed is available but my knowledge of is not all that good ...
    Last edited by Tonx; 03-17-2015 at 05:20. Reason: D520 Opponents Quandary

  38. #38

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    Since D520 saw action in many national air forces [French (Polish Air Force in France included), Vichy-French, Italian, Bulgarian, German] it may challenge many different potential historical adversaries available in WGS: Bf 109E, Bf-110, He-111, Hurricanes, Gladiators, Spitfires (eventually...), Stukas, Yak-1s, Curtiss P-40.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewoitine_D.520
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  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Since D520 saw action in many national air forces [French (Polish Air Force in France included)...
    It's possible that L.W. Paszkiewicz (DFC) flew them in 1940 with Groupe de Chasse II / 8 (II Pursuit Group) before crossing the Channel to fly with No 303 Squadron (Kosciuśzko).

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post
    It's possible that L.W. Paszkiewicz (DFC) flew them in 1940 with Groupe de Chasse II / 8 (II Pursuit Group) before crossing the Channel to fly with No 303 Squadron (Kosciuśzko).
    Thanks very much for mentioning this war hero, Chris. Yes he was a mamber of this fighter group. The records reveal he flew 33 sorties (18 combat) with the Groupe, but never met any enemies. He had to wait till Aug. 30 over England where he shot down the first German aircraft (Bf 110) of the number scored by Polish pilots. This event was pictured in the "Battle of Britain", the movie.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
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  41. #41

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    Great thread, btw. Thanks for sharing your experiences Barnaby.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Since D520 saw action in many national air forces [French (Polish Air Force in France included), Vichy-French, Italian, Bulgarian, German] it may challenge many different potential historical adversaries available in WGS: Bf 109E, Bf-110, He-111, Hurricanes, Gladiators, Spitfires (eventually...), Stukas, Yak-1s, Curtiss P-40.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewoitine_D.520
    Also F4F Wilcat (McWorther) and Martlet during operation Torch.

  43. #43

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    Good call on the Wildcat & Martlet!

  44. #44

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    For Torch you don't even need to use the British version, as all the British aircraft wore US markings.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    For Torch you don't even need to use the British version, as all the British aircraft wore US markings.
    Rob.
    Did Not Know That!
    many thanks, WingCo!

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Did Not Know That!
    many thanks, WingCo!
    Nor did I until I ws researching into HMS Biter's role in the Torch Landings about a year ago.
    My dad was in the FAA on Biter for that action and he never mentioned it. When I saw all these American marked aircraft on deck I had to look into the reason.
    Apparently the Allies wanted to convince the Vichy French that it was an all American show, as they felt the French would accept it better.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    Great thread guys. It gives me several different ideas for plane combinations for campaign scenarios a friend is wanting to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post
    Great thread, btw. Thanks for sharing your experiences Barnaby.
    My pleasure - and thanks for sharing yours in return

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    Barnaby, I have looked up and read about several pilots highlighted in both the Wings of War and Wings of Glory miniature lines. Concerning the Yak-1's that are available Luganskij was famous for successfully ramming and downing 2 German planes and surviving. His village was so proud of him after the first one that they raised enough money to buy him another plane. Litvjak was a female pilot for the Russians. Both stories I read gave some of the planes each pilot shot down. This should give you an idea of what to pair against the Russians.
    If I had the room, like you do, I would have me a similar playing area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Setarius View Post
    Barnaby, I have looked up and read about several pilots highlighted in both the Wings of War and Wings of Glory miniature lines. Concerning the Yak-1's that are available Luganskij was famous for successfully ramming and downing 2 German planes and surviving. His village was so proud of him after the first one that they raised enough money to buy him another plane. Litvjak was a female pilot for the Russians. Both stories I read gave some of the planes each pilot shot down. This should give you an idea of what to pair against the Russians.
    If I had the room, like you do, I would have me a similar playing area.
    Of the two Lydia Litvjak I have heard of through playing PC game Dogfights 1942 (available on the STEAM network) ... Never heard of Luganskij so thank you very much for adding this contribution to our 'Circuits and Bumps' Learning and Training Mission. Looking on the bright side at least Litvjak makes the transfer from any of the PC games I used to play before starting into Wings of Glory. The truth IMHO is that both WGF and WGS beat the living hell out of playing PC games all the time as I may have mentioned before. However another way in which WGF / WGS win again came from a guy I know Down Under who asked me if I noticed how the Website here in general is welcoming compared with the way some PC gaming forums very quickly tend to fill up with aggressive feedback / borderline the very nasty:

    Yes the truth is I have though never taken part or been a part of any such adverse activity. Or anything liable to attract it - just why? Life after all is too short / some people it appears from these instances just exist to waste space in life: What a pity they insist on advertising the fact ...

    Got some more photos to add which I will do on my profile - some showing the newly acquired 'Recon' grey Spitfire Mk 1 on trial against a Mk IX which was flown by the Wife. These photos came from Galactic Models last Wednesday.

    Judging by my latest two acquisitions to complete two recently started 'Dogfight Doubles' (Airfix - see above in this thread) which have arrived in the shape of two Focke Wulf Fw190D-9s this Wednesday at Galactic Models will feature Normal Rules but still within the rather constrictive 90 c x 90 cm Gaming Mat which I have so far been unable to expand upon. The Wife will no doubt want to fly Allied / Spitfires allowing me to take these two brand new Axis fighters for a tootle against what we already know is an ultra-suitable opponent type of aircraft ... Now to experience what it's like when a skirmish becomes a real dogfight - watch out Derby City Centre!

    Have no worries about skirmishes and dogfights landing us up in the divorce courts or similar! The last thing the Wife said to me regarding WGS is that she has never had so much fun since she used to play 'Risk' with her family. Another good game there - a bit like Diplomacy for those of us who are older and may remember what my late Father got me into playing back in 1985

    Latest 'Dogfight Double' I am embarking upon completing involves the Desert Sand Messerschmitt Bf 110G versus Bristol Beaufighter Mk 4F and I look forward to when this pairing go live in around seven days time

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