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Thread: Zero

  1. #51

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    Jan thanks for the new cards. I am going to make a few up and give them a play test. I have already added the 90 degree turns from the L deck (one each direction) and finally flying zeroes had the right feel in the game. The P40's were deadly at a slash and run technique but if they hung around to dogfight, they quickly got into trouble.

  2. #52

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    Enjoy Gary, i am glad they have a good home.

  3. #53

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    Has anyone heard if the re-releases of the Zero is going to be the early version?

    Thomas

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by CappyTom View Post
    Has anyone heard if the re-releases of the Zero is going to be the early version?

    Thomas
    Oh I hope so, still have to get a couple of them.

  5. #55

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    I do not think that Ares have actually announced that they are re-releasing the Zero models as yet.

  6. #56

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    Loads of Series 1 Zeros still available down here in NZ

  7. #57

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    Loads of everything except for the 109s

  8. #58

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    Zeros and Dewoitines don't sell. I am afraid it is for reason of being little boring to play, not for reason of Pacific theatre or battle of France being boring at all. Dewoitines also come in quite useless camouflages.

  9. #59

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    I must admit that I only have two Dewoitines Jan. one in its original camo, and one painted for the Desert. Ready for "Torch".
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canestri10 View Post
    Loads of Series 1 Zeros still available down here in NZ
    Can't get any Zeros here at all. If we could just find a way to ship them out here cheap. LOL

  11. #61

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    I was lucky. I found Wings of War just as they were shutting down and while the new company had bought them, there wasn't any real new stuff out. As an airplane nut, I just started buying every mini I could find. Bought a few off of ebay but mostly just prowling hobby shops. Have a very nice collection now, but not enough time to play as much as I would like!

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieRickenback View Post
    I was lucky. I found Wings of War just as they were shutting down and while the new company had bought them, there wasn't any real new stuff out. As an airplane nut, I just started buying every mini I could find. Bought a few off of ebay but mostly just prowling hobby shops. Have a very nice collection now, but not enough time to play as much as I would like!
    Well Gary if you ever get out this way, Ada, Ohio, look me up and we will get a big game going.

    Thomas

  13. #63

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    Thanks Thomas. I'll keep that in mind. I live near Chicago but I actually get out to Ohio fairly regularly. I have two sales reps that work for me there. One is in Cleveland and the other is in Columbus.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieRickenback View Post
    Thanks Thomas. I'll keep that in mind. I live near Chicago but I actually get out to Ohio fairly regularly. I have two sales reps that work for me there. One is in Cleveland and the other is in Columbus.
    I go to Columbus quite regularly. Ken AKA The Cowman and I can get some games going there as well.

    Thomas

  15. #65

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    Next time I can plan an extra day there, I will ping you!

  16. #66

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    Interesting discussion. To see how flimsy the A6M2s were, reference the exploits of Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa.

    Here's the scenario:
    http://www.skirmishcampaigns.com/cy6/images/swed.pdf

  17. #67

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    Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa's SBD might be a good choice for a model in WGS series 6.

  18. #68

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    Love these new cards! Thanks a ton for producing them!!!!

  19. #69

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    Have just deployed the A6M2 Reisen or Zero into combat for the first time against the P-40F Warhawk which is why I am reading this thread ... Without any modification of the manoeuver deck the Reisen still stood up to the P-40F very well and gameplay which lasted just under one hour was enjoyable. Agree that in real life the A6M2 pre-modification was more manoeuverable than it is in the Wings of War / Glory WGS game but it is still quite nippy in terms of speed and agility and WGS-wise a joy to fly.

    So far I cannot recall anything being said by Ares Games as to reprinting or re-releasing this aircraft for WGS. But this situation could change after they have reprinted the Battle of Britain models and then sold a few SBD Dauntless which are due for release some time in 2015 ...

  20. #70

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    Barnaby, I agree that it's quite fun to fly, and I have no issues personally. I do appreciate the chance to fly the planes in a more "realistic' manner though to see how they would have been. I have a feeling that in order to balance things out, I'm gonna have to have more Zero's & Tony's flying at one time and or respawning, when that may not have been likely. I have gotten to try the new cards in action, but they will quite soon, this weekend perhaps.

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Resident View Post
    Barnaby, I agree that it's quite fun to fly, and I have no issues personally. I do appreciate the chance to fly the planes in a more "realistic' manner though to see how they would have been. I have a feeling that in order to balance things out, I'm gonna have to have more Zero's & Tony's flying at one time and or respawning, when that may not have been likely. I have gotten to try the new cards in action, but they will quite soon, this weekend perhaps.
    Please post what happens when you try these new cards out versus your experience with the old cards - now I have finally got round to flying the A6M2 I for one would be very interested to hear about this. In the long term it may even persuade me to switch over or acquire then paint up an additional A6M2 or two before switching those aircraft only over to the new deck. Wonder what colours would look nice if this does happen ... Green thinks me

  22. #72

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    When you play the new cards don't forget to lower the hit number on Zeros down to 12. I have played numerous games with the standard Zeros over past 3 years. I have played 2 games with the new cards and i did like them better. That's why i actually bothered to make the designs.

  23. #73

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    I did get cardstock from Staples (an office supply store), took it took work and used our color copier to make a few copies of the Zero deck, so I could have decks for my new planes. I bought 2 white metal mini's from Nobel, and got user miscmini to paint them. They are green! And they should be over in the "Hobby Room-Painting-Zero" thread. I plan to mark up there cards so I don't forget to lower the value. We will see how 12 goes, I'm afraid that might be a bit low for me to win! I need all the help I can get.

    However, they might eat up the Devastators (Merit models) I got. I need to buy a new Hakate plane, with an R deck, though, before I can fly them!

  24. #74

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    If the Zero models are ever re-released, could Ares be persuaded to do something like this: include two aeroplane cards with each model one for a Zero A6M2 with say 12 hitpoints and using a C* deck, which includes the two 90 degree turns and two sideslip cards, and one for a Zero A6M5 with the 16 hitpoints and a standard C deck formed by taking the previously mentioned new cards out of the manoeuvre deck. Thus the new models could represent either of the two variants but then the existing models could be used as A6M5's.

    I know that this does not solve all the problems because the A6M5 had slightly different dimensions and was fast enough to need another deck.

  25. #75

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    David, that would be great if ARES would do that. You should tell them your idea.

    I just ran a game Saturday using Jan's cards. I thought they were great as did the Zero pilots!

  26. #76

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    Just spotted this. Great work on the cards. Will give them a try.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  27. #77

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    Thanks, you can even try them in this mission
    https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepa...ack-us-carrier

    I really think this one came out just right.

  28. #78

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    Just printed off enough of these for my Zero's. (All 9 of them). Now to use them in a mission!
    See you on the Dark Side......

  29. #79

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    So some may cry ''HERESY'' and wish to burn me at the stake but I feel that I must voice this opinion. The A6M2 is fine at 14-16 HP. I honestly think that the Zero wasn't as fragile as people think it was. Let me go over a couple of points to back my statement.

    A. Self-sealing fuel tanks weren't widespread early war, it was very common to see U.S., U.K., and German fighters to not have them. In fact, many Spitfires during the BoB weren't equipped with them and 109s didn't even receive them until post BoB. If we also look at the guns used BoB we see two types, .30cals that were fast going obsolete due to lack of punch. It was shown that on fuel tanks of the time that more damage was done on the shell exiting from tumbling than on entrance. And even then we are talking about the smallest round at the time needing many more to start a fire or make the aircraft inoperable. And then we have the 20mm cannon shell, an explosive shell that would cause catastrophic damage to a fuel tank sealing or not. Which leads me to my next point...

    B. Americans love their .50 cals. Many of the stories of the ''fragile'' Zero come from the U.S. perspective, know what else comes from the U.S.? MG rounds nearly twice the size of the average round. You have the higher velocity of the .30cal meaning more hits combined with a much higher striking power, almost that of a cannon. Even going up against Late War Luftwaffe fighters you can see a plethora of ''armoured'' fighters disintegrate under a hail of .50 cal rounds. Which also leads me to another point...

    C. Americans love armour so much that everything looks fragile in comparison. In a time of high speed and high performance European designs, the U.S. wanted to see how much armour they could bolt on to an F4F. Is the Spitfire or Bf-109 fragile? Not really unless you are using a Wildcat or Warhawk as the ''default armour''. Blending in a little of Point A the British in the Burma theatre struggled against the Zero and forced their normally manoeuvrable Spitfire into slashing attacks but you never really hear any communication from that area talking about how the Zero is inherently very fragile. If you have stuck with me this long than I wrap things up with my last point...

    D. The Japanese had poor engine design throughout the war. This was really the nail in the coffin for the perceived fragility. The Japanese lagged behind for so long that the A6M was still on 1940 standards of armour while the rest of the participants were coming out with more powerful engines and therefore could have the weight increase of armour and self-sealing tanks. Part of the Zero's manoeuvrability wasn't its light weight as much as how big its wings were. It wasn't a bamboo light design. If you compare the empty weights of the Bf-109E and the A6M2 you see 1,900 kg (4,190 lb) and 1,680 kg (3,704 lb) respectively. Lighter yes, but enough to automatically knock off 4-6 HP to make the Zero 10-12 HP? Probably not.

    So yes, this is me coming to the defence of what I feel like is the most exaggerated weakness of a weapon of history. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

  30. #80

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    I am now of a mind to use the cards that are about in post 35 but only allow the zero a slow speed 90 degree turn. I will keep my HP at 12 for all pilots but for veterans (at least 1 kill) I will add 1 HP and for aces for every ace card a HP up to the max on the card as it stands.

    As for climb & dive, we have excellent rates of climb stats but diving is generic. Which means the heavier, better diving planes are classed the same as the lighter, not as fast diving planes. If you are going to have one you must have the other. IMHO.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  31. #81

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    Lucas despite my opinion that Zero was really a fragile aircraft (and i am sorry for being this laconic), these are just house rules and nothing else. So if you don't like them, just don't use them, or tweak them any way you like.
    I found the new cards and 12HP fun to play, that's why i put it here.

  32. #82

    Exclamation

    There was a lot of discussion on the early V's later model Zeros on the forum led by knowledgeable people such as Zoe Brain & Jager & the general consensus was to use 12 DP's for the early war model & the DP's on the Nexus Cards for the later ones which is what the card shows.

  33. #83

  34. #84

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    Using the info in this thread as well as my scanner and Photoshop, I made up a set of "for my own personal use only / not for resale" maneuver cards incorporating the 60 and 90 turns as well as the "Banzai Edition" artwork.

    I used 12 HP for damage and made sure to also denote that it was a C* deck. They came out amazingly well - I'd post a photo comparing vs the originals but I suspect it would violate forum rules to do so.

    Going to play a game with the new deck soon and will report back

  35. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    How about this? 90° slow and 60° fast. I tried to keep the original lengths of the arrows.
    Would you leave it as a steep maneuver?
    Upon testing, we also added the long side-slips, replacing the short ones.

    Attachment 158911

    These card would replace turns 8/18 and 9/18 , side-slips 15/18 and 16/18
    I wish they would come out with a deck like this. Great job. Is this in the File section?

  36. #86

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    Hi Steve can you send me a digital copy?
    The Zero is a thorn on my side. For me the biggest mistake Wings of War made with a released miniature and plane.
    Thanks.

  37. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    I put the cards here at BGG for download. 300 dpi, Euro A4, pdf. If you prefer jpg, then grab them here.
    you can grab them here guys

  38. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    you can grab them here guys
    Thanks Jan!

  39. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    you can grab them here guys
    Yes, that's the file I used as the basis for my work. Thanks again Jan!! The added agility combined with the added fragility has made our Zero vs Wildcat games a lot more interesting.

    My son and I played 3 or 4 games yesterday with the new cards. Even without drawing an explosion card, the revised 12HP Zero can be one-shotted by the Wildcat's BBB close-range firepower. Likewise, the agility advantage of the Zero vs the Wildcat really feels appropriate, and combined with the Zero's strong close-range firepower, makes a good challenge for both players. However, the Zero's mix of Steep maneuvers keeps it from being overpowered in maneuverability, increasing the challenge in flying it well and preventing it from being excessively exploited (IMHO).

    Summary: after the mod, 2v2 engagements vs Wildcats find both planes feeling very different from one another, but still have pretty much even odds of winning... meaning pilot skill and tactics will decide it. Previously the Zero was really cumbersome (for a Zero, anyways) and felt like it had a bit of an excessive advantage versus the Wildcats (as it had better firepower and almost the same HP). So this feels like a big improvement.

    Great fun!
    Last edited by surfimp; 02-22-2016 at 13:46.

  40. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfimp View Post
    Yes, that's the file I used as the basis for my work. Thanks again Jan!! The added agility combined with the added fragility has made our Zero vs Wildcat games a lot more interesting.

    My son and I played 3 or 4 games yesterday with the new cards. Even without drawing an explosion card, the Zero can be one-shotted by the Wildcat's BBB close-range firepower. Likewise, the agility advantage of the Zero vs the Wildcat really feels appropriate, and combined with the Zero's strong close-range firepower, makes a good challenge for both players. However, the Zero's mix of Steep maneuvers keeps it from being overpowered in maneuverability, increasing the challenge in flying it well and preventing it from being excessively exploited (IMHO).

    Summary: after the mod, 2v2 engagements vs Wildcats find both planes feeling very different from one another, but still have pretty much even odds of winning... meaning pilot skill and tactics will decide it. Previously the Zero was really cumbersome (for a Zero, anyways) and felt like it had a bit of an excessive advantage versus the Wildcats (as it had better firepower and almost the same HP). So this feels like a big improvement.

    Great fun!
    Perfect!

  41. #91

  42. #92

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    I just used these Zero turn cards Saturday and they are great. Thanks again for making these.

  43. #93

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    Bookmarked for future use.

    Thanks a bunch, Jan!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  44. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    I put the cards here at BGG for download. 300 dpi, Euro A4, pdf. If you prefer jpg, then grab them here.
    Thanks Jan!

    Late to the party here, but have already downloaded and plan on using them.

    Zeroes have seemed a bit lackluster every time the Wildcats show up.

    They'll see playtime this weekend.

  45. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    There was a lot of discussion on the early V's later model Zeros on the forum led by knowledgeable people such as Zoe Brain & Jager & the general consensus was to use 12 DP's for the early war model & the DP's on the Nexus Cards for the later ones which is what the card shows.
    So the A6M2 & A6M3 would use the modified turn and 12 HP while A6M5 will use the HP provided (still with the new turning cards).

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