Updated 1/144 aircraft and stats in the file section

[spindoc]

Now on to another plane. I don't see the Lohner L flying boat represented in the database. Any ideas for stats for this one?

[flash]

Looking at the 'Tools for working out stats doc' in the files I came up with this:
The Lohner's such a slow beast the max speed of 65mph just puts it into XB or XC movement range, so even XA might be appropriate when speed averaged out; ceiling was 2.5k so a 7 in game terms, climb rate 8 ?; could carry 200kg of bombs so must be reasonably solid build - damage of 12-13; B gun.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Very useful info Dave.
Thanks.
Rob.

[spindoc]

Yes thanks Dave. Your numbers are pretty much what I've got too. And the gun play arc would be 180 degrees (or possibly a few more with those swept-back wings) in front - unobstructed level and above, with maybe a small blind spot straight ahead below.

Thanks also for pointing to the 'Tools for working out stats doc' file, which I hadn't seen before.

[flash]

Hope that doc helps you out Bill - there's more to it than that I'm sure (pictures Zoe with slide rule & calculator) but it gives a decent guideline.
I think you're right about the arc of fire - I see the gun is off set so that may influence the blindspot a little if you want to take it to that level.
Personally I'd go for Deck XA; Dam 12; Ceiling 7; Climb rate 8; B Gun (200kg/441lb Bombs)
Though you could be generous and go with XB deck when dry & XA when bombed up !

[spindoc]

I don't see a listing for this French triplane flying boat, for which Daryl at Reduced Aircraft Factory makes a Shapeways model (link). Anybody care to take a stab at it?

[spindoc]

Jeez, who in their right mind would be interested in all these obscure flying boats?

[flash]

I don't see a listing for this French triplane flying boat, for which Daryl at Reduced Aircraft Factory makes a Shapeways model (link). Anybody care to take a stab at it?

Not without any data Bill - and I have yet to find any !

[flash]

Found these on Wiki for a Donnet-Denhaut D.D.8:
3 crew
Engine: 200hp Hispano-Suiza 8b
Speed: 130 km/h (80 mph)
RoC: 2.5 m/s (500 ft/min)
Ceiling: not shown
2 × .303 trainable Lewis guns in open cockpits at bow
2 × 35 kg (70 lb) bombs

So my wild stab in the dark using the Tools for stats doc comes out something like:
Donnet-Denhaut D.D.8: Deck XB or XC; Dam 15/16; Ceiling ?; Climb rate 7; Guns B,B/- (70kg/140lb Bombs).
I'd probably go with the XB deck as it has 30 deg turns, the XC having 45.

[flash]

postscript:
I have found this data on the Levy-Besson:
The Levy- Besson is a 200 hp two-seater triplane central hull 9 meters long and 14.40 meters wingspan, the median wing wingspan greater than that of the other two planes. The aircraft took off at maximum weight 1800 kg . It carries 600 kg load more than three hours of flight speed average of 120 km / h , two men crew , two marine -type bombs F of 52 kg and a Lewis gun 7.7mm front-mounted turret and 300 kg gasoline.

My guess using the stats tool doc:
Levy-Besson "Alerte": Deck XB or XC; Dam 15/16; Ceiling ?; Climb rate ?; Guns B/- (104kg/ 230lb Bombs).

I'd go with ceiling 7 and Climb of 8 like the Lohner

[Zoe Brain]

As the Lohner L was the victor in some dogfights, XC is appropriate, giving it the benefit of the doubt. A relatively early plane, but a flying boat so sturdy. 13 damage seems right.

DD-8 - popular post-war and in the US due to agility, so XC. Damage 15. Ceiling 3000m

Alerte - stable, so XB. Used by the RNAS as well. Damage 15.

Now to go check sources, as I'm operating from unreliable memory.

[ReducedAirFact]

This according to Davilla & Soltan's French Aircraft of the First World War:
Levy-Besson "Alerte": max speed 185km/h (seems high; probably a typo); climb to 2000m in 11:15; armament two 35 or 50kg bombs and 1 MG (forward); entered service Oct 1917. 100 built.
Donnet-Denhaut D.D.8: max speed 140km/h; climb to 2000m in 15:00; range 500km/ armament 1-2 Lewis & 2 35kg or 50kg bombs; prototype May 1917, ordered June 1917. ~500 built. Some had a position for a gunner in the rear and some did not.
and while we're at it:
Grigorovich M-9: max speed 110km/h; ~500 built. In service early 1916. For the nose gunner, a wide variety of weaponry was mounted (which seems typical of Russian aircraft) and small bombs were commonly carried.

[Zoe Brain]

The "Alerte" had an average speed on a 3 hour patrol of 120 km/h. So I'm inclined to give it a K deck - corresponding to 165 km/h. (Source : Les hydravions Georges Lévy by Gérard Hartmann). Climb 5, Ceiling 9 (at a guess). Apparently a "quick reaction" aircraft, based away from enemy air opposition, its likely air opponents straggling Gothas or intruding seaplanes.

The DD-8 - turns out to be XD, Climb 6, Ceiling 8. This one is designed for going into hostile skies, the escort version with 2 lots of 2 lewis coming along to keep the flies away.

The M-9 - I'll give this XC rather than XB, as it was used in dogfights. First flew in 1916, but tough, so 14 damage. Ceiling 8, Climb 8 (30 min to 2000m) Source http://wio.ru/ww1a/fboat.htm

[flash]

I saw the 165km/h speed for a Levy-Busson in the chart but that was given against a Renault 280hp engine rather than the Hispano-Suiza 200hp engine mentioned earlier so I was unsure if this was the 'Alerte' or another version of L-B's.
Interestingly following the stats I gave previously on the 200hp version the document went on to say:

The construction of seaplanes turns harder and longer than expected . The Levy first -Besson will reach 200 hp Centres for Aviation Maritime (CAM) in March 1918. The machines show unstable and several drivers kill on this model. His reputation "Killer" made, the activations are sparingly. The Donnet - Denhaut 200 hp and 200 hp especially Tellier to it preferred.

...the French Navy 207 Lévy- Besson in his 200 hp ranks, of which only a small score is actually airworthy . Others are either in c[r]ash , unmounted, either stored in background sheds.

Maybe the more powerful engine corrected some issues ?

[spindoc]

Thanks for all the input!

[Gribble]

Wonderful file! Thank you kindly.

Best,
Mel

[monse]

Hello,
What are the climb rate and the max altitude for the Hannover CLIIIa ?
Fokker EV - Nieuport 28 and Macchi M5 are part of the Rules and Accessories liflet but nothing about he Hannover.

[spindoc]

Hello,
What are the climb rate and the max altitude for the Hannover CLIIIa ?

Hi monse. The Hannover's climb rate is 5 and its ceiling is 16.

[monse]

Thank you Bill.
It appears indeed in an updated chart of WW1 climb rates and max altitudes on Ares Games website.
There are also both two-seater of next serie :
Albatros C.III
Sopwith 1/2 Strutter (single and 2 seater)

http://www.aresgames.eu/12022

[Flying Helmut]

Thanks for the update Monse!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Very useful thanks Monse.
Rob.

[Stumptonian]

Very useful thanks Monse.
Rob.

+1

[flash]

Thanks Monse that's helped me with the Tactical walk through too !
The USC file is at odds with the Ares for the Hannover C.IIIa - it gives the C.III as cr4 ma15 whereas Ares show the C.IIIa cr5 ma16 ? Maybe it was the difference between the 'a' variant & the other - can anyone on the committee clarify please ?

[Zoe Brain]

The USC file will have to be updated to conform to the official stats.

Many of the figures for climb rate and ceiling pre-dated the change Ares made across the board (no more climb rate 1, add 1 across the board to ceiling). There's also the matter of having multiple reliable sources, some giving similar rates of 4.6 (round to 5), others 4.4(round to 4).

[flash]

Thanks Zoe - I've corrected where necessary.

[OldGuy59]

So, as I start this project to do up cards for the Unofficial Planes...

Firing arc on this one?


I note that this plane was used by the RFC to bomb targets in Germany in the early war, but the unofficial stats says it was only a trainer. Clarification?

If I am doing this extensive list, are there already cards for some planes? Are there planes on tables that desperately need cards Right Now? Are there existing custom cards that could be updated and modded, rather than created from scratch?

Eventually, all these (created or modded by me) will start appearing in this album: OldGuy59's WWI Unofficial Stats Cards

[ReducedAirFact]

I note that this plane was used by the RFC to bomb targets in Germany in the early war, but the unofficial stats says it was only a trainer. Clarification?

The MF11 "Shorthorn" was used by a lot of French units starting in early 1915...at least 30 Escadrilles, and they were also used by practically every other Entente combatant, as recon and bombing and even as early fighters. They served at the front with most nations through 1916, and the MF11 continued in the training role much longer.

The RFC used them on the Western Front from 1914 to Nov. 1915, when the last of them was retired and sent to training duty. In Mesopotamia they served even longer...up until May 1916. The RNAS used about 70 of them.

As for gun arc, it's hard to be definitive because there were a lot of experiments with armament and mounting systems in those early days. I would guess most of them were on a pivot-mount so they wouldn't have the full flexibility of a ring-mounted gun. (Most of them probably flew unarmed, but those are not nearly as much fun on the gaming table.)

My source is the superb French Aircraft of the First World War by Davilla and Soltan.

[Blackronin]

Mike, you're the man!

[OldGuy59]

And for any Biggles Fans...

...Johns undertook his initial flying training at the short-lived airfield at Coley Park in Reading, flying the Farman MF.11 Shorthorn aircraft. He was then posted to No.25 Flying Training School at Thetford in Norfolk...

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._E._Johns

He may have flown an MF.11 at Thetford, as they flew a variety of trainers before being equipped with FE2bs, which is perhaps a more familiar plane to the "Biggles" aficionados.