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Thread: Rain of Destruction: What was meant to be

  1. #1

    Default Rain of Destruction: What was meant to be

    The Finnish Pe.2 was in the never printed Rain of Destruction.

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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    The Finnish Pe.2 was in the never printed Rain of Destruction.
    Oh! But now I am printing it! can I?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    The Finnish Pe.2 was in the never printed Rain of Destruction.
    Any more like that?

    The unofficial committee stats were
    Petlyakov Pe-2: Maneuver deck N (HF base); hits: 25; ceiling: 10; climb: 6
    Guns: Front fixed: B/A; dorsal A/A; ventral: A/A

    The difference in hits is within the error of different sources for empty weight.

    So we must be coming pretty close to the same formula you used

  4. #4

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    The Finnish Pe.2 was in the never printed Rain of Destruction.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Andrea, is it possible to get the rest of the RoD cards available?
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  6. #6

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    I'm really sorry that we didn't get the chance to buy the Rain of Destruction Expansion...

    None of those nice plane cards, none of those nice movement decks for us...
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    The Finnish Pe.2 was in the never printed Rain of Destruction.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice, looks like there were 13 plane cards in the ill fated RoD set.

  8. #8

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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Andrea, is it possible to get the rest of the RoD cards available?
    I agree with that. The RoD expandion seemed to be one of the coolest boxes (like FoTG)....

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkmann View Post
    I agree with that. The RoD expandion seemed to be one of the coolest boxes (like FoTG)....
    This is a Popular Demand: "RoD cards for everybody!"
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  13. #13

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    Or perhaps we can make it happen, I mean official print of these cards. I'm thinking of a kind of Kickstarter-thing on our forum. I'd like to have official cards for Aussie Mitchell, for instance. Andrea, is that possible?

  14. #14

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    I must admit even the digital versions would be fine
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  15. #15

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    I just talked with Ares about this. The design work was done, but pre-production of the set was never done. I'm reading between the lines here, but I think it was never published because the move was made to make Wings a miniatures game and no longer a card based tabletop board game. The also supplied me with a full list of the planes in that set:

    North American B-25 Mitchell
    Bristol Beaufighter
    Messerschmitt Bf.110

    Fiat BR.20
    Dornier Do.17
    Heinkel He.111
    Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu
    Petlyakov Pe-2

    The planes in italics have already been released as miniatures and were quoted as being "the most interesting". One might read into that as that the others are not planned to be released. But my request for the plane cards was not addressed... leaving some hope maybe?

    I don't have the cards handy, but can anyone compare the He. 111 and B-25 cards posted above with the ones that actually came with the minis? Any differences?

    The AA store already has flight stands for the B-25 Mitchell, Bristol Beaufighter, Messerschmitt Bf.110, Heinkel He.111, and the Fiat BR.20. Perhaps I should do the other 3 as well.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post

    Fiat BR.20
    Dornier Do.17

    Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu
    Petlyakov Pe-2
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  17. #17

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    Further talks with Ares revealed that the Dornier Do.17 and Petlyakov Pe-2 are already in the pipeline, but after "the 3rd batch of bombers"

  18. #18

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    Well,

    4 planes were released, but only with 3 painting schemes for Me-110 and Beau and 2 painting schemes for bombers. I'd like to have other official cards for them as well, to make a repaint and support it with official card (e.g. Aussie mitchell souds interesting).

    Apart of that if other planes are not planned for release nothing wrong with official card print.
    Last edited by Thunderbolt; 10-24-2014 at 09:29.

  19. #19

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    Do 17 would be a perfect choice for the Early War...

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    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Further talks with Ares revealed that the Dornier Do.17 and Petlyakov Pe-2 are already in the pipeline, but after "the 3rd batch of bombers"
    D-17 which? K perhaps?

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Further talks with Ares revealed that the Dornier Do.17 and Petlyakov Pe-2 are already in the pipeline, but after "the 3rd batch of bombers"
    Good news! But I got lost in the meantime, what's "the 3rd batch of bombers"?

    1st batch: He-111 and B-25
    2nd batch: B-17 and Lanc (???)
    3rd batch: ????
    then Do-17 and Pe-2 coming?

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    D-17 which? K perhaps?
    Sorry, I did not get those details. But knowing that Ares wants to concentrate more on the BoB going forward, I would not be surprised if it is the 17Z

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    Good news! But I got lost in the meantime, what's "the 3rd batch of bombers"?

    1st batch: He-111 and B-25
    2nd batch: B-17 and Lanc (???)
    3rd batch: ????
    then Do-17 and Pe-2 coming?
    Your not lost, that info has not been given out yet (to me either). There was a stipulation that the 3rd bombers would of course depend on how well the B-17 and Lanc sale.

    You got the order correct in your list, but there are other releases mixed in there as well.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Your not lost, that info has not been given out yet (to me either). There was a stipulation that the 3rd bombers would of course depend on how well the B-17 and Lanc sale.
    I have a bad feeling about this...
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    I have a bad feeling about this...
    Me too

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Further talks with Ares revealed that the Dornier Do.17 and Petlyakov Pe-2 are already in the pipeline, but after "the 3rd batch of bombers"
    well that IS good news... of sort

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    There was a stipulation that the 3rd bombers would of course depend on how well the B-17 and Lanc sale.
    now everybody go out and buy a B-17 and a Lancaster ... or else

    I wonder what the 3rd Bomber Pack would be... given the afore mentioned list I'm guessing

    Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu & Fiat BR.20 ... but that can't be it because they're both Axis, or can it be?

    In any case, I would prefer a Mitsubishi G4M "Betty" as a Japanese twin engine bomber, and a SM-79 Spaviero as an Italian multi-engine bomber -- I know it was a torpedo-bomber but it could also carry regular bombs, couldn't it?

    But of course if we're getting torpedo-bombers my guess is that Avenger and Kate will come first on the list

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo Rojo View Post
    Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu & Fiat BR.20 ... but that can't be it because they're both Axis, or can it be?
    It's always been mixed, allied and axis. And Ki-45 is not a bomber but heavy fighter, which leaves BR.20 as sole candidate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo Rojo View Post
    In any case, I would prefer a Mitsubishi G4M "Betty" as a Japanese twin engine bomber, and a SM-79 Spaviero as an Italian multi-engine bomber -- I know it was a torpedo-bomber but it could also carry regular bombs, couldn't it?
    These two are high on my wish-list as well, Betty being on the top actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo Rojo View Post
    But of course if we're getting torpedo-bombers my guess is that Avenger and Kate will come first on the list
    I don't think Avenger and Kate are considered as "bombers release". They fit into normal release, much like Stuka and Val, or upcoming Dauntless and Judy.

  28. #28

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    Whoa, this blew up quick! I've had access to the RoD stats for a while, but was asked to keep them quiet in light of some stat changes between RoD and WGS Minis on the B-25 and He111, mainly in context of playtesting if I can get another group together to figure out appropriate tweaks.

    I've also lobbied that if Ares ever revisits the original card game, that RoD and the also-unreleased Ground Attack booster should definitely be included in a "Definitive Edition" single-box release of the entire line.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    I have a bad feeling about this...
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  30. #30

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    Nice insight, comrades.

    No wonder that the KI 45 was in the RoD expansion.

    We have this plane in the "New Rules and Accesoires Pack" named in the "Schräge Musik" section.


    ..and: Preorder your personal Lancaster model today.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo Rojo View Post
    well that IS good news... of sort



    now everybody go out and buy a B-17 and a Lancaster ... or else

    I wonder what the 3rd Bomber Pack would be... given the afore mentioned list I'm guessing

    Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu & Fiat BR.20 ... but that can't be it because they're both Axis, or can it be?

    In any case, I would prefer a Mitsubishi G4M "Betty" as a Japanese twin engine bomber, and a SM-79 Spaviero as an Italian multi-engine bomber -- I know it was a torpedo-bomber but it could also carry regular bombs, couldn't it?

    But of course if we're getting torpedo-bombers my guess is that Avenger and Kate will come first on the list

    I think if either the Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu or Fiat BR.20 were planned for the 3rd Bombers, he would have said. Since he just said "3rd bombers", it implies to me that they are not ready for the types to be known yet. Which makes sense since we are looking at at least 2-3 years out by what is stacked up in front of them. Also, since the 3rd bombers depend on the sales of the B-17 and Lanc, I think they will be more heavy (4+ engine) bombers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    It's always been mixed, allied and axis.
    Except in the case of the heavies we are getting next month...

    I too would love to get the Betty. I suggested years ago that they should release that one as a special set that included a pair of P-38s. Operation Vengeance anyone?

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I think if either the Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu or Fiat BR.20 were planned for the 3rd Bombers, he would have said. Since he just said "3rd bombers", it implies to me that they are not ready for the types to be known yet. Which makes sense since we are looking at at least 2-3 years out by what is stacked up in front of them. Also, since the 3rd bombers depend on the sales of the B-17 and Lanc, I think they will be more heavy (4+ engine) bombers.
    He177 Greif and P.108 Avanti? H8K Emily and B-24?

    Except in the case of the heavies we are getting next month...
    And the debacle of Series 2...

    I too would love to get the Betty. I suggested years ago that they should release that one as a special set that included a pair of P-38s. Operation Vengeance anyone?
    That would be good--a baseline Betty Special Pack, and then the Box Set with Yamamoto's G4M2-L transport and two of Capt. Lanphier's P-38's, with additional P-38s available separately to complete the strike team. Be cool to see Lindbergh's P-38 someday too even though all his combat was "strictly off-the-books and officially Never Happened"...

  33. #33

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    Well if it comes off it will all be very interesting to see who was correct.
    In the meantime get those War bonds in chaps. I have the two Lancs on order. Didn't intend to get a B17 but guess I will have to now for the good of us all.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  34. #34

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    One nice thing of RoD was the inclusion of some Spanish Civil War planes.
    As other cards only boxes, choice was first of famed planes, second of less fame ones that could share the same maneuvre decks. If we release them as miniatures, we are more free to use different decks for each relase so choices could be different.

    Something for you only.

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  35. #35

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    Thank you, Andrea.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  36. #36

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    Thanks for the cards, Andrea!

  37. #37

  38. #38

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    I found a last one...

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    You could also apply red roundels on its wings - Japan used it.
    Good night from Italy!

  39. #39

    Thumbs up


    Thanks Andrea for all those "gems"!

  40. #40

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    Andrea, these are some real nice pictures! I cant believe this isn't for sale. Arghh!!! I think cards are just as interesting and cool as minis. Do you have some more of these gifts?
    Thanks


    Nick

  41. #41

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    Some SM-79, perhaps

  42. #42

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    Regarding the Do17E

    Dornier Do17Z - 255mph - XB deck HOWEVER - from the internal deliberations of the OUAS committee (Official Unofficial Aircraft Stats)
    I think we need to go with the XB deck for this; the slower speeds for full bomb load can be done by slow-only loaded rules.
    I couldn’t find any climb rates, but the earlier models have about the same rate as the He-111 in FW, so I went with that.

    Dornier Do17Z: Maneuver XB, hits: 24; climb 7; ceiling 9
    Guns: A typical :stick ‘em anywhere” German bomber
    A front flex gun for copilot; right side in nose for bomb-aimer; 3!!! for the
    RO/rear gunner (center rear (no lower shots and tail BS), right rear and left rear); and a rear belly gun for ??
    --
    One thing to look at for bombers - if the model is smaller than an He-111, use the heavy Fighter base. That means a length of 6.5 not 8cm, so a different set of maneuver decks.
    The He-111 and B-25 are comparable in size. The Do-17Z, Ju-88 and Beaufighter likewise, sizes are similar.
    ---
    OK, started thinking about this again; sizes for the Ju.88 are about half way between the He-111 and Bf.110. But when I look at the FW rules ADC stats, neither the Ju.88 nor Do.17 can do harder turns, like the Bf.110 can. So should we go with the bigger base? Or restrict the deck. BTW: I'm finding top speed for the Ju.88 to be 280mph.
    If we use the HF base for both the Do.17 and Ju.88, then the Do.17 needs to be a XB deck, and the Ju.88 gets the K(---) (no 45 degree turn, fast SS or reversal).
    If we use the bomber base, the Ju.88 can use an XB, but nothings too slow for the Do.17 So I'd say go with the HF base for the Do.17, and the bomber base for the Ju.88.
    The performance of the E-1 enabled it to reach a speed of 330 km/h (205 mph) at 3,000 m (9,842 ft). Conducting a shallow dive the light frame of the Do 17 could reach 500 km/h (310 mph)
    re: BR20
    Fiat B.R.20: Maneuver deck: XA; hits: 26; ceiling: 9; climb: 7;
    Guns: front gun: front arc A/A; dorsal turret: 360 level to high (tail BS) A/A; ventral gun: rear arc, low only A/A.

  43. #43

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    Alas I have just these low res drafts. Not a really printable layout.
    The box would have included two classes of planes: some heavy fighters and some bombers. Or, in game terms, some planes that just needed a card and some that needed a managing consolle too (while Flight of the Giants had just planes with consolles). The real difference being the active crew in the game (pilots and gunners).
    Larger planes were to be released later on. And now they are, as minis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I'm reading between the lines here, but I think it was never published because the move was made to make Wings a miniatures game and no longer a card based tabletop board game.
    Generally true, but to be precise it was not cancelled because of a planned change of marketing policy, taken one day by a board of managers. It was cancelled because it was a Nexus Editrice project...

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    ...and back in 2010 Italeri, only owner of Nexus Editrice, decided to suspend all new releases of all lines - Wings of War and others - because of cash flow problems even if every issue of WoW was actually always active in financial terms. Then a very awkward period followed, Fantasy Flight Games made an offer to buy the company on terms that could not be accepted (at least by all designers in Nexus' catalogue) and in the end we broke our contract Nexus while they went into temporary receivership. Several companies, huge and small, were warmly interested in Wings of War (and in the Sails project), including FFG - but their decision to go on with X-Wing without licensing WoW any more as they initially offered, and other signs on how they often deal with designers, made them not so desirable publishers for us. Some of these publishers made interesting offers, some tried to use less convincing arguments (I have been told by a large company "Make a deal with us or we will reprint Blue Bax calling it Wings of War and putting your miniatures in the box without acknowledging you anything", with not much respect for the intelligence of the public, besides for us, for Phil Hall and for the law).
    In the meantime, all of you went on playing and supporting the game, giving us great trust in the future - I appreciated a lot.
    In the end, Ares Games was founded and employed the same great staff that has took care of WoW since 2002, so we went on with them. The result has been great - the game was back into shops in a few months, even if not with the best choice of models at first, and a flow of new stuff (including Sails of Glory) has been coming since then. In the meantime, FFG and their partners (first of all Giochi Uniti, that distributed WoW in Italy) took 3 years to release again Blue Max with the idea of replacing WoW with it - this give a hint, IMHO, of how low would have been that flow of new stuff if they managed our game.
    Ares Games has simplified the lines from ww1 cards / ww2 cards / ww1 miniatures / ww2 miniatures to just the last two, adding a third one (Napoleonic sea battles with miniatures) - and that's enough to me, given the effort. Besides all the rest, it helped managing the game and making clear to new players how to enter the game. Rain of Destruction was not released as such, but the Bf.110 and Beaufighters in Airplane Packs and the B.25 and He.111 in special packs come from it. And more will follow.
    Last edited by Angiolillo; 10-24-2014 at 20:58.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    Some SM-79, perhaps
    I would really love that. But they are not on top of the list, alas.
    As you know, anyway, somebody is already playing with them.

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...?19225-SM-79-s

    Here a test card for a Pe3 - a plane that did not entre in the final range of choices. The style is awful, so you can be sure that I personally made it.

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  45. #45

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    Good enough for the test card, even with Feldwebel Pankratz's name on it

  46. #46

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    My prototypes are quite rough.

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  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    I would really love that. But they are not on top of the list, alas.
    As you know, anyway, somebody is already playing with them.

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...?19225-SM-79-s

    Here a test card for a Pe3 - a plane that did not entre in the final range of choices. The style is awful, so you can be sure that I personally made it.

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    That could be taken on as a project? Send me the stats, and I could make something up.

    Do any of the above need management cards that haven't been produced? I'm stalled on the Ju-52, as I can't figure out the crews and positions. My sources are not very specific. But, with designer input, I could press ahead and finish that set, and do others. Even a Japanese version of the Br.20?

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    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Alas I have just these low res drafts. Not a really printable layout.
    The box would have included two classes of planes: some heavy fighters and some bombers. Or, in game terms, some planes that just needed a card and some that needed a managing consolle too (while Flight of the Giants had just planes with consolles). The real difference being the active crew in the game (pilots and gunners).
    Larger planes were to be released later on. And now they are, as minis.



    Generally true, but to be precise it was not cancelled because of a planned change of marketing policy, taken one day by a board of managers. It was cancelled because it was a Nexus Editrice project...

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    ...and back in 2010 Italeri, only owner of Nexus Editrice, decided to suspend all new releases of all lines - Wings of War and others - because of cash flow problems even if every issue of WoW was actually always active in financial terms. Then a very awkward period followed, Fantasy Flight Games made an offer to buy the company on terms that could not be accepted (at least by all designers in Nexus' catalogue) and in the end we broke our contract Nexus while they went into temporary receivership. Several companies, huge and small, were warmly interested in Wings of War (and in the Sails project), including FFG - but their decision to go on with X-Wing without licensing WoW any more as they initially offered, and other signs on how they often deal with designers, made them not so desirable publishers for us. Some of these publishers made interesting offers, some tried to use less convincing arguments (I have been told by a large company "Make a deal with us or we will reprint Blue Bax calling it Wings of War and putting your miniatures in the box without acknowledging you anything", with not much respect for the intelligence of the public, besides for us, for Phil Hall and for the law).
    In the meantime, all of you went on playing and supporting the game, giving us great trust in the future - I appreciated a lot.
    In the end, Ares Games was founded and employed the same great staff that has took care of WoW since 2002, so we went on with them. The result has been great - the game was back into shops in a few months, even if not with the best choice of models at first, and a flow of new stuff (including Sails of Glory) has been coming since then. In the meantime, FFG and their partners (first of all Giochi Uniti, that distributed WoW in Italy) took 3 years to release again Blue Max with the idea of replacing WoW with it - this give a hint, IMHO, of how low would have been that flow of new stuff if they managed our game.
    Ares Games has simplified the lines from ww1 cards / ww2 cards / ww1 miniatures / ww2 miniatures to just the last two, adding a third one (Napoleonic sea battles with miniatures) - and that's enough to me, given the effort. Besides all the rest, it helped managing the game and making clear to new players how to enter the game. Rain of Destruction was not released as such, but the Bf.110 and Beaufighters in Airplane Packs and the B.25 and He.111 in special packs come from it. And more will follow.


    thanks for the fascinating glimpse behind the scenes andrea!!!! sounds like wows reincarnation as wogs was a rough journey. im so glad it all worked out in the end. we players really owe you and all those that kept it going a real debt of gratitude !!!!

    i find the big companies threat concerning blue max kind of laughable. dont get me wrong, blue max is a great game and with miniatures it would have been better but the mechanics simply cant hold a candle to wow/wog.

    i also think had another company picked wog up that releases would have been much further and farther between.

  49. #49

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    Many thanks for your posts above, Andrea. Really worth a Rep growth.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    My prototypes are quite rough.

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    do you ever bring out the prototype and play it for nostalgia's sake?

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