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Thread: Series 7 preliminary lineup.

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    [M]y comment was about the Yak and Hurricane as a group. Both those minis were the poorest sellers of their Series to my knowledge. In fact, I've only sold 15 Yak-1 minis (both pilots combined) in two years. (...) Compare that with only two of the P-51D minis selling 37 in just a few months. In fact, I've sold one less P-51D (all three pilots combined) in a couple of months than I have all of Series 3 minis combined in almost two years.
    P-51 is a really sexy b!tch. I would expect it to sell like iced lemonade in a hot summer day.

    Soviet Hurrican was, uhm, well, just ugly... and Yak-1 is a somewhat obscure plane -- for the average potential customer I mean; even I myself wondered why not a MiG instead.

    My guess is that if you give the customers some sexier soviet planes they will go for them -- of course not in the numbers of American or German planes.
    A Lavochkin La-7 that can be matched up against a Foke Wulf-Fw 190-A, or a IL-2 Sturmovik on a special dive bomber series can be a good or at least a decent sell -- the later the Soviet airplane that every American customer know about at least.

    Honest question: Did the Yak-1 sold poorly than the Dewoitine D.520?

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Of course no dates or pilots for these yet and I've been told this list is subject to change:

    Vought F4U Corsair



    Well this one is one of my favorite fighter ever...
    do we know if we'll get this early version or the later (sort of) bubble top one?
    If we get the early version it would be nice to have Boyington's plane
    But later version can be pushed even into Korean War scenarios

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    The next question is will your store ship abroad Phillip, as I would love to get my hands on a Stella.
    Rob.


    i can ask dave (the owner) but hes not to keen on doing overseas mail order sales so i cant promise anything

  4. #104

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    Ezekiel, I think you are counting apples and pears in one group.
    D.520 and Yak-1 were released in times where the main goal was "early years" of WWII. This ended with series 4 and from the series 5 the main topic is 1944/45. Most of iconic USSR (or "sellers sweets") planes are from late years of war, so it is clear there are not as many Soviet planes as Germans or British. And as I am sad there are almost Eastern front planes right now, I understand why P-38, P-47, P-51D, Corsair etc. - Ares must know they will sell their minis before next experimental series like the series 3 was. And if I like it or not, USA is the biggest market for them.

    Slowly, slowly catch you monkey... (in other words: let's be patient and support Ares with our for their )

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo Rojo View Post
    P-51 is a really sexy b!tch. I would expect it to sell like iced lemonade in a hot summer day.

    Soviet Hurrican was, uhm, well, just ugly... and Yak-1 is a somewhat obscure plane -- for the average potential customer I mean; even I myself wondered why not a MiG instead.

    My guess is that if you give the customers some sexier soviet planes they will go for them -- of course not in the numbers of American or German planes.
    A Lavochkin La-7 that can be matched up against a Foke Wulf-Fw 190-A, or a IL-2 Sturmovik on a special dive bomber series can be a good or at least a decent sell -- the later the Soviet airplane that every American customer know about at least.

    Honest question: Did the Yak-1 sold poorly than the Dewoitine D.520?
    I don't have any sales data on the Dewoitine, so I can't really say. I can tell you I've never seen one on the table here in the US. Mine has never even been taken out of the storage tray and I'd be surprised if the deck is not still sealed.

    I'm not a history buff, just an aviation enthusiast... and I could not match any Russian planes to their names with the exception of maybe the LI-2, but that one is iffy as well. Russian planes, and the whole Eastern Front really, are sadly a niche market for an already niche game.

    If I was running Ares, I'd release those minis, but only as Special dual and quad packs and only about every 2-3 years for new releases. I'd be pumping out German/US/British planes at the rate of one new plane every other month. lol

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo Rojo View Post
    Well this one is one of my favorite fighter ever...
    do we know if we'll get this early version or the later (sort of) bubble top one?
    If we get the early version it would be nice to have Boyington's plane
    But later version can be pushed even into Korean War scenarios
    I've got no idea at this point.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    Two versions of the Tojo:

    Ki-44-II Otsu (Ki-44-IIb)
    Standard armament reduced to just two 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine guns in the nose. Optional provision for two 40 mm (1.57 in) Ho-301 cannons in the wings. These were not always installed and due to disappointing combat results once installed they were sometimes removed again and two 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine guns mounted in their place. This variant still had the Type 89 telescopic gunsight as standard. 394 produced (s/n 1356-1749).

    Ki-44-II Hei (Ki-44-IIc)
    Standard armament of four 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine guns, two in the nose and two in the wings. Type 100 reflector gunsight mounted as standard. 427 produced (s/n 1750-2176).


    Will the Ki-44-IIb have only 2xMGs or will we see the version with the additional 4cm cannons?
    Since it would really be just a card change at this scale, I could see us getting one of each.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    Will the Ki-44-IIb have only 2xMGs or will we see the version with the additional 4cm cannons?
    Honestly: I expect to see two 4x-0.50s; and one of the -IIIs, either the IIIa with 4x 20mm, or -IIIb with 2 each 20mm [fuselage] and 37mm [wings]. The 40mms did not perform well enough to warrant a mini.

  9. #109

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    Would be a good mixture.

    I like the three different versions of the KI61, too.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  10. #110

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    I believe someone in Ares is already planning series 8. And I was wondering if there are general plans to cover Spanish Civil War and/or Winter War/Continuation War. Just think of I-16, Fiat CR.32, Fiat g.50, early Me 109s, Fokker D.XXI, I -153, Brewster Buffalo

    SCW is not part of WW2 I agree, but it is its prelude, and WW and CW are. It would be nice to see some of those birds in action

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    I believe someone in Ares is already planning series 8. And I was wondering if there are general plans to cover Spanish Civil War and/or Winter War/Continuation War. Just think of I-16, Fiat CR.32, Fiat g.50, early Me 109s, Fokker D.XXI, I -153, Brewster Buffalo

    SCW is not part of WW2 I agree, but it is its prelude, and WW and CW are. It would be nice to see some of those birds in action
    I second that, Nemanja! With release of Buffallo, I-16 and I-153 we will have a lot of conflicts covered: Spanish Civil War, Winter War 39-40, early Barbarossa, early Pacific and with addition of Ki-27 Nate we will have also China War and Nomonhan Incident 39. That's a lot of nice scenario possibilities!

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I can tell you I've never seen one on the table here in the US. Mine has never even been taken out of the storage tray and I'd be surprised if the deck is not still sealed.
    I guess it is just because players in US never researched the possibility. I agree, they were not used as often as Spitfires or Warhawks, but you can find possible scenarios for them. Some ideas: Battle of France (check excellent Battle of France scenario by our Czech colleaugues in WGS AAR section), Syria-Lebanon campaign'41 (British against Vichy France) where you can throw them against Gladiators, Hurricanes and Warhawks or (with little repainting) you can use them for bombing raids over Sofia (Bulgarian D.520 against american bombers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I'm not a history buff, just an aviation enthusiast... and I could not match any Russian planes to their names with the exception of maybe the LI-2, but that one is iffy as well. Russian planes, and the whole Eastern Front really, are sadly a niche market for an already niche game.
    For Li-2 I'm not surprised, as it is just licensed Dakota DC-3 (american plane in fact). But Eastern Front is one of the most important fronts of WW2 (if not the most important). This is the place where Wehrmaht and Luftwaffe power was broken in 1942 and 1943 and German armies were bleeding most. Everyting after was just delivering further killing blows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    If I was running Ares, I'd release those minis, but only as Special dual and quad packs and only about every 2-3 years for new releases. I'd be pumping out German/US/British planes at the rate of one new plane every other month. lol
    Unfortunately I must agree. For a company sales results prevails. But that's even more strange to me that Ares decided to release Me-410 or Ki-44. I'm even wondering if I buy one piece of any of them. They as much niche planes as D.520 or Italian Falco II. Take P-39 Airacobra or I-16 instead, and you'll have sales hits. My counter goes as much as 8x P-39 needed and 10x I-16 needed in my collection ;-)

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    I believe someone in Ares is already planning series 8. And I was wondering if there are general plans to cover Spanish Civil War and/or Winter War/Continuation War. Just think of I-16, Fiat CR.32, Fiat g.50, early Me 109s, Fokker D.XXI, I -153, Brewster Buffalo

    SCW is not part of WW2 I agree, but it is its prelude, and WW and CW are. It would be nice to see some of those birds in action
    Has anyone looked at the latest WFG release? There are at least two "after war" Snipes in that release. Although, from what I'm finding, just about any plane from mid-Great War on is a candidate for the Russian Civil War. Ares is already extending coverage of WWI, why not WWII? Hmmm... How well will those Snipes sell? Repaints, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    I guess it is just because players in US never researched the possibility. I agree, they were not used as often as Spitfires or Warhawks, but you can find possible scenarios for them. Some ideas: Battle of France (check excellent Battle of France scenario by our Czech colleaugues in WGS AAR section), Syria-Lebanon campaign'41 (British against Vichy France) where you can throw them against Gladiators, Hurricanes and Warhawks or (with little repainting) you can use them for bombing raids over Sofia (Bulgarian D.520 against american bombers).

    For Li-2 I'm not surprised, as it is just licensed Dakota DC-3 (american plane in fact). But Eastern Front is one of the most important fronts of WW2 (if not the most important). This is the place where Wehrmaht and Luftwaffe power was broken in 1942 and 1943 and German armies were bleeding most. Everyting after was just delivering further killing blows.

    Unfortunately I must agree. For a company sales results prevails. But that's even more strange to me that Ares decided to release Me-410 or Ki-44. I'm even wondering if I buy one piece of any of them. They as much niche planes as D.520 or Italian Falco II. Take P-39 Airacobra or I-16 instead, and you'll have sales hits. My counter goes as much as 8x P-39 needed and 10x I-16 needed in my collection ;-)
    Go by movie releases in North America, or TV Series, and most Western audiences barely know that there was any fighting East of the Elbe River. Off the top of my head, I can think of two movies that covered that side of the war (Cross of Iron and Enemy at the Gates). I'm not a WWII movie buff, but I'm probably more interested in them than the average public.

    I also agree that there was significant events on the Eastern Front. Look at the ace tallies for the Germans that flew there. Their numbers are unbelievable, compared to any other country's pilots. Some exceedingly heavy combat must have happened there, and I don't have a frame of reference for it. It should have a significant component in Ares releases based on numbers. Now I'm going to have to look at numbers of planes, and sortie rates for that front. Anyone got those on hand?

    The sad fact in this discussion is, despite all the above comments, I won't likely buy any Eastern Front aircraft, as not enough Canadians flew there. I am pretending to stick to Battle of Britain planes, and really resisting any spead to the MTO (my first Air Force squadron, when I transferred to the Air Force in 1982, was 417 RCAF "Desert Rats" Squadron). This mentality exactly backs up the niche market comments above.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    ... But Eastern Front is one of the most important fronts of WW2 (if not the most important). This is the place where Wehrmaht and Luftwaffe power was broken in 1942 and 1943 and German armies were bleeding most. Everyting after was just delivering further killing blows.
    We're going here in a wrong direction.

    WoG is an game that deals with aerial combat and the most intersting aerial fights were BoB, Midway & the carrier battles and the conqest of air superiority over Western Europe.

    The Luftwaffe wasn't broken by the Russians.

    This job was definitely done by the Western Allies from 1943 - mid 1944.

    Although outnumbered the Luftwaffe held the Russians for years at bay. Stukas, German out-dated med bombers and ground attack planes opertated at the Eastern front till 1945.
    Last edited by Marechallannes; 10-18-2014 at 13:13.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    We're going here in a wrong direction.

    ... the most intersting aerial fights were BoB, Midway & the carrier battles and the conqest of air superiority over Western Europe.

    The Luftwaffe wasn't broken by the Russians.

    ...
    Sven,

    The victors write the history books. Russia wasn't (isn't) motivated to write about their losses, only their victories. If German pilots were racking up the kill tallies they claim at the end of the war, it was a slaughter on the Eastern Front.

    But they did write about Kursk. Surprisingly, there isn't a movie about the biggest tank battle in history. Oh! No Americans. Right. Not important, then. Battle of the Bulge? A few Americans involved in that. And they won, too. Good movies to be made from that.

    So, who did the analysis of the air battles in the East? Who has written about the defense of Stalingrad, or the air lifts to relieve trapped German armies? Who says there weren't significant air battles in Russia? The people who lost pilots in droves. Perhaps we are missing a big piece of the picture? Or it may have been a long-term, continuous meat-grinder of a fight, with no particular single battle. Still, it must have been significant in pilots and planes, and therefore a big part of the air war in Europe.

    My nickel.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  16. #116

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    Hello guys,

    I've made some reasearch on the topic, since I was really curious what can be found on the internet. Apart of some rather not significant, general statement I found also an analysis, which gives quite nice overview. The figures below come from “Luftwaffe” by Williamson Murray, a British author. His sources for the losses were the actual German records sent by each Jagdgeschwader to Luftwaffe Headquarters and for the eyes of the Luftwaffe Commanders only. They are not based on either Allied or Soviet claims of aircraft destroyed. The figures are not always complete, however enough is there to shed light on the realities of who and where losses were inflicted. I hope this will be as interesting for you guys as it was for me

    And yes Sven, your're right . It seems that Luftwaffe was bleeding on the West, while Wehrmaht was bleeding on the East.

    1940 --------------------------------------

    Total German Operational Strength May 1940 (Operational strength is the aircraft actually ready to fly, not including aircraft in repair or depots)
    Fighters: 1369
    Others: 4029
    Total: 5398

    Total German Aircraft losses due to enemy action May-September 1940 (Invasion of France and Battle of Britain):
    Fighters: 871
    Others: 1442
    Total: 2313

    Total German Aircraft losses due to enemy action October-December 1940 (Night Blitz of Britain):
    Fighters: 40
    Bombers: 140

    Total German Fighter Pilot casualties. (Casualties include Deaths, Serious Woundings, and Captures. Fighter Pilot casualties are to be differentiated from Aircraft losses which can be replaced)
    May-June 1940 (Battle of France): 169
    July-September 1940 (Battle of Britain): 521

    You will notice the big increase in German Pilot Casualties during the Battle of Britain. This was due to the fact the Jagdwaffe were flying over hostile territory at extreme range.

    1941 --------------------------------------

    Total German Operational Strength January 1941
    Fighters: 1339
    Others: 3008
    Total: 4347

    Average German Operational Strength versus Soviet Union June-November 1941
    Fighters: 738 (55% of Total Jan. Operational strength)
    Other: 1724
    Total: 2462 (57% of Total Jan. Operational strength)

    Total German Aircraft Losses due to enemy action January-December 1941 (not including November, figures N/A)
    Fighters: 868
    Other: 1981
    Total: 2849

    Percentage of German Aircraft lost Monthly, All Fronts January-December 1941 (Total / Fighters)
    January: 2.6% / 2.1%
    February: 3.6% / 3.6%
    March: 4.9% / 4.7%
    April: 7.2% / 6.4%
    May: 7.5% / 6.8%
    June: 11.6% / 14.2%
    July: 16.1% / 22.9%
    August: 9.8% / 13.4%
    September: 8.8% / 12.6%
    October: 7.7% / 6.0%
    November: 6.5% / N/A
    December: 7.1% / 10.2%

    You can see from the above chart the German losses are quite small when their only active Front is the English Channel. Losses begin to rise in April with the Balkan Campaigns in Yugoslavia and Greece versus the British Expeditionary Forces there, as well as the commitment to North Africa with Rommel. The Germans had significant losses on Crete, especially in Transport and Bombers. With the invasion of the Soviet Union losses jump very significantly in the first few months. But after the Soviet airforce is to all intents destroyed, the losses begin to reduce again. The chart shows also that German Fighter losses with the invasion of the Soviet Union are proportionately a little higher than overall losses.

    1942 --------------------------------------

    German Operational Strength January 1942
    Fighters: 1324
    Other: 3809
    Total: 5133

    German Monthly Total Aircraft Losses All Fronts January to May 1942.
    January: 428
    February: 415
    March: 564
    April: 525
    May: 772

    This Chart shows the heaviest losses begin March with the failed Counter-Offensive by the Soviets at Kharkov. From now on, the split over fronts became available:

    Total German Monthly Aircraft Losses June to December 1942 by Front (all Aircraft)

    Month----Eastern Front----All other Fronts
    June--------350------------------299
    July---------438------------------386
    August------436------------------371
    September---332------------------206
    October-----200------------------324
    November----224------------------595
    December----408------------------366
    Total------2388-----------------2547

    You can see the losses on the Eastern Front are higher during the Summer ’42 offensive, but losses in the West are higher in October and November during the fighting at El Alamein and during the invasion of North Africa, “Torch”. Eastern Front losses then move ahead again during December when the airlift to Stalingrad was at its height. There were significant Transport and Bomber losses at that time.

    1943 --------------------------------------

    German Operational Aircraft Strength February 1943
    Fighters: 1360
    Others: 4014
    Total: 5374

    German Monthly Aircraft Losses in 1943 by Front. First number is total Aircraft losses/Second number is Fighter losses

    Month----Eastern----Mediterranean----NW Europe
    January---482/85-------282/124--------176/87
    February--318/63-------206/89---------182/77
    March-----314/100------308/140--------256/140
    April-----238/67-------572/247--------256/143
    May-------331/110------333/97---------331/183
    June------249/85-------235/131--------313/157
    July------558/201------711/246--------526/335
    August----472/150------321/133--------625/248
    September-338/99-------503/167--------522/276
    October---279/94-------285/92---------530/281
    November--194/45-------180/54---------529/281
    December------------Not Available
    Totals---3773/1099----3936/1520------4246/2208

    In January the German losses are slightly higher on the Eastern Front than both the Mediterranean and Northwest Europe combined. This reflects the continued attempted airlift to Stalingrad. In February and march it equals on each of fronts. But after that losses versus the Western Allies become much more significant. Losses are very high during the close of the Tunisian Campaign, especially during the abortive attempted Air Supply phase. During the Kursk Offensive and subsequent Soviet Counter-Offensive the losses on Eastern front exceeds slightly losses on West, but are still less than those suffered during the Sicily invasion. Meanwhile as the 8th Air Force Bombing Offensive begins in July of ’43, the German losses in Northwest Europe begin to climb till they are largest portion of all losses. Notice especially the higher proportion of Fighters lost in Northwest Europe.

    1944 --------------------------------------

    Total German Operational Strength January 1944
    Fighters: 1561
    Others: 5180
    Total: 6741

    Out of these numbers 82% of fighter strength was concentrated in Western Europe. Unfortunately Murray’s book does not include real figures which show losses by Front during 1944. However eduacated guesses can be made.

    Total Monthly German Aircraft Losses January-May 1944. First number is total Aircraft losses/Second number is Fighter losses.

    January------991/473
    February-------N/A
    March-------1770/985
    April-----------N/A
    May---------1882/831

    You can see the monthly losses are much higher than in earlier years. Since 82% of the German Fighter strength is concentrated against the Western Allies, the overwhelming majority of the fighter casualties are likely inflicted there.

    German Fighter Pilot Casualties January to May 1944
    January: 292
    February: 434
    March: 511
    April: 447
    May: 578

    Comparing these Pilot losses with e.g. Battle of Britain period you can see the attrition has become enormous. This reflects the tremendous losses in the Battle for Germany when monthly losses were equal to pilot losses during whole Battle of Britain.

    This is also reflected in Jagdgeschwader 26 Pilot Casualties by Year (JG26 were based in France and Germany versus the Western Allies. Sometimes called the Abbeville Boys)
    1939: 2
    1940: 51
    1941: 64
    1942: 69
    1943: 149
    1944: 249
    1945: 110

    You can see from this table that during the years when JG26 was only facing short range Spitfires and British medium bombers casualties were rather low. But with the introduction of the B-17 daylight raids and British night bombing offensive by heavy bombers and the nessesity to intercept these destructive and accurate formations, casualties skyrocket.


    Well, well. What an impressive off-topic post I've prepared. Sorry for that

  17. #117

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    Speaking of Kursk movies, and speaking off-topic ( ):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcekvQeHS6o

    (Soviet 1969 movie about Kursk Battle).

    Back on topic, I believe Eastern front gives interesting opportunities for various aerial scenarios (specially with usefull Stukas in 1945, as Sven mentioned). And I believe it's better to spend available slots on airplanes which have significant role in WW2 theatres of war. Soviet aviation, although not having major battle as BoB or Midway, has many interesting battles with different opponents, as mentioned in my and Rafal's posts. And if Belgian and French models exist, I guess Fins deserve some models too.

  18. #118

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    One problem with German loss figures - they tend to undercount. A destroyed Bf109E due to be replaced by a Bf109G would not be counted, for example. Before - 1 Bf109E, After 1 Bf109G - so strength remains constant, whether the plane is scrapped or shot down, and no loss recorded.

    This explains some of the discrepancies between physical count of wrecked aircraft on the ground, and reported losses.

  19. #119

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    Sounds like the Royal Navy's sail-era administrative fiction of "break up to rebuild"... LOL (Basically, they committed a bit of fraud on Parliament by building new ships incorporating a little wood from the ships they were named after, and calling it "rebuild" rather than the new construction it technically was.)

  20. #120

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    I usually borrow a line from _Dilbert_ to explain "who won the War": "The Western Allies fought smarter; the Soviets fought harder". The West understood the Germans had generally-better ground forces; so avoided taking them on head-on whenever possible -- the bombing campaigns, the naval war, all these were the "second front". Stalin, being as much a "Landser" as Adolf ever was, couldn't see that (and even if he had: Better to let the capitalists and the Hitlerites bleed each other, than burn any of his own resources).

  21. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    One problem with German loss figures - they tend to undercount. A destroyed Bf109E due to be replaced by a Bf109G would not be counted, for example. Before - 1 Bf109E, After 1 Bf109G - so strength remains constant, whether the plane is scrapped or shot down, and no loss recorded.

    This explains some of the discrepancies between physical count of wrecked aircraft on the ground, and reported losses.


    Of course you will not report your actual strengh and additional subtract the losses you had in the past.

    Maybe I didn't understand this information, but it sounds like: "Oh, we lost a Bf.109-E with Lieutnant Bauer over the Channel. Thank God Fähnrich Müller with his new Bf.109G arrived today - so no loss at all."

    You always have to check where your data came from.

    The most detailed and verivied data should be from the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe, because the Aillies/Soviets conquered Germany and had direct access to the Germann Geschwader chronicles and files.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  22. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    I usually borrow a line from _Dilbert_ to explain "who won the War": "The Western Allies fought smarter; the Soviets fought harder". The West understood the Germans had generally-better ground forces; so avoided taking them on head-on whenever possible -- the bombing campaigns, the naval war, all these were the "second front". Stalin, being as much a "Landser" as Adolf ever was, couldn't see that (and even if he had: Better to let the capitalists and the Hitlerites bleed each other, than burn any of his own resources).
    I think your giving both sides too much credit for thinking rather than reacting. The USSR fought a land war simply because it was a land power, and that was the war forced on it by politics and geography. while it can be argued that either side would have benefitted from better use of strategic air power, neither had the resources to develop it enough to make a major difference (though even a few raids of 30-50 B-17 equivalents against "Tankograd" or the rail net supplying it could of made some difference). The USSR had to fight harder for survival, but after Stalingrad, and esp. after Kursk, they used the principles of Deep Battle (developed in the 30s) with great success. This is a good example of "fighting smarter".
    As for the West, I think it was more waiting for sufficient US ground forces to build up for D-Day; Churchill pushed for the Med theater and Italy. The USA wasn't enthused for that at all, though acknowledged the need for the Torch invasions, and clearing North Africa. If shipping was sufficient, they were ready for a '43 cross-channel invasion (which probably would have failed, due to force levels).
    The bombing campaign was committed to because: 1) the Bomber Barons had convinced the those in charge that they could win the war with massed strategic bombing, and 2) it was a way to show that the west was actively fighting the war, and taking it to the Germans. It only worked, to the extent it did, because the USA had the resources to spend on it, and the other needs of the war (ground forces, convoy protection, the Pacific War etc.). The real net gain of the bombing campaign wasn't the loss of German production, but the diversion of resources to combat it; a few dozen divisions worth of men, guns and vehicles (imagine all those 88s on the Eastern Front!) plus aircraft.

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    The most detailed and verivied data should be from the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe, because the Aillies/Soviets conquered Germany and had direct access to the Germann Geschwader chronicles and files.
    It was the discrepancy between these figures and actual number of destroyed obsolescent (due to be replaced) aircraft found on the ground that led to this conclusion. If you actually have a count of 5 left Ju-87B wings on the ground, but losses in the geschwader records show only 2 Ju-87s lost that day (but 13 aircrew KIA/MIA), and all aircraft on strength being Ju-87Rs, something's amiss.

    Source: They Flew Hurricanes - Adrian Stewart.

    This only happened when a geschwader was transitioning between types, and only applied to war-weary aircraft due to be scrapped.

    Another problem is that often the records of retreating armies have gaps. Files get burnt to stop the enemy getting them rather than neatly forwarded to HQ. Allied Records in the Pacific theatre in 42 during the defence of Java and Malaya are mostly guesswork, similarly in the retreat in Greece. Axis Records from Tunisia are often just missing.

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    I am the last person to be considered as a USSR war effort fan and supporter, nor I am an Eastern Front fan, but air warfare over the EF is vastly underestimated and not known sufficiently. The WGS gaming possibilities are (IMHO) much better than the Western European theatre offers, for many reasons:
    1. a greater variety of planes involved (including British and American LL types),
    2. longer period of air activity (not just BoB, channel front and Air War over Germany),
    3. one side plays the underdog (Soviet Forces) in the beginning, then slowly evolves into a superior one in numbers,
    4. a greater variety of possible historical missions (ground attacks, to mention just one),
    5. winter/summer conditions that can be modelled in the game scenarios.

    I know I am not the only one to think that way. Honzo?
    You've hit the nail.
    Truth is the Eastern front isn't for everybody. There are too much mixed and wrong feelings in that front to be comfortable to play it detached of reality. And of course, for Western countries the area of operations Britain, it's Commonwealth and USA fought is obviously the preferred one.

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    I see Andrzej's points as big YES to Eastern front reason in gaming terms. And if we would mix feelings and playing, probably nobody never would play any wargame later than Napoleonic wars

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    The USSR fought a land war simply because it was a land power, and that was the war forced on it by politics and geography.
    This is true; however, the manner in which they fought suggested a lack of deeper thought, at least until Zhukov and some of the other "new blood" came along. Perhaps when all one has is a hammer, everything looks like a nail; but there's a world of difference between hammering the nail in straight, bending it, and/or just whaling the s*** out of one's thumb. ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    As for the West, I think it was more waiting for sufficient US ground forces to build up for D-Day; Churchill pushed for the Med theater and Italy. The USA wasn't enthused for that at all, though acknowledged the need for the Torch invasions, and clearing North Africa. If shipping was sufficient, they were ready for a '43 cross-channel invasion (which probably would have failed, due to force levels).
    Again, the type of fight was forced on them by circumstances -- landfall in Europe was impractical, so landfall was made elsewhere; meanwhile, other methods were used to fight the foe, preferably fighting him where his was weakest (at sea, and in his infrastructure).

    One of my multitude of alt-hists involves the West taking Corsica and Sardinia after Sicily, thereby laying the entire West Coast of Italy under contribution -- the Germans have no idea where the invasion will be going in. In this case: The invasion is in *northern* Italy -- one leg heads due north to the Swiss border, then west, to split France from Italy; the other heads east across the base of the peninsula, bypassing all those mountain ranges and threatening Kesselring's defenses from the direction opposite that they're facing. Meanwhile, a further invasion of Toulon is set up, using the same disinformation tactics used to convince the Germans Calais was going to be the invasion point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    The bombing campaign was committed to because: 1) the Bomber Barons had convinced the those in charge that they could win the war with massed strategic bombing, and 2) it was a way to show that the west was actively fighting the war, and taking it to the Germans. It only worked, to the extent it did, because the USA had the resources to spend on it, and the other needs of the war (ground forces, convoy protection, the Pacific War etc.). The real net gain of the bombing campaign wasn't the loss of German production, but the diversion of resources to combat it; a few dozen divisions worth of men, guns and vehicles (imagine all those 88s on the Eastern Front!) plus aircraft.
    [nod] The ETO bombing campaign should have followed the same course as the 5th AF's in PTO -- forget the factories; let them build stuff, then blow it up en-route to the front. All that time, effort, and resources, and they never get to actually use it.... >:)

  27. #127

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    Not to mention the whole "Join RAF Bomber Command, See Exciting New Places, Get Shot Down by Jerry and Incinerated by Your Own Colleagues" factor... frankly, a decent-sized chunk of the high command (ESPECIALLY SOE, but that's another rant) should have stood trial at Nuremberg alongside their enemies.

  28. #128

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    For Li-2 I'm not surprised, as it is just licensed Dakota DC-3 (american plane in fact). But Eastern Front is one of the most important fronts of WW2 (if not the most important). This is the place where Wehrmaht and Luftwaffe power was broken in 1942 and 1943 and German armies were bleeding most. Everyting after was just delivering further killing blows.



    you have to remember for the formative years of many of us american wog fans the soviet union was the "evil empire" (and, honestly, wasnt it) and therefor, the eastern front struggle was part of that and wasnt, and couldnt be dealt with as much as the western front or pacific front (not to mention japan and germany were being rehabilitated as an ally for the cold war) because to admit its heroism in ww2 is to diminish the possibility of maintaining them as an enemy "them" apart from "us". school curriculum is as much propaganda as anything and will always reflect prevailing views of the culture it is a part of (you should see it over here THESE DAYS, but DO NOT GET ME STARTED).

    one of the big thrills for me with the fall of the soviet union was to be able to learn many of these stories id heard hints of for decades and in a big way (can you imagine enemy at the gates being made in say, the 60s, 70s or 80s?).

    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Sven,

    The victors write the history books. Russia wasn't (isn't) motivated to write about their losses, only their victories. If German pilots were racking up the kill tallies they claim at the end of the war, it was a slaughter on the Eastern Front.

    But they did write about Kursk. Surprisingly, there isn't a movie about the biggest tank battle in history. Oh! No Americans. Right. Not important, then. Battle of the Bulge? A few Americans involved in that. And they won, too. Good movies to be made from that.

    So, who did the analysis of the air battles in the East? Who has written about the defense of Stalingrad, or the air lifts to relieve trapped German armies? Who says there weren't significant air battles in Russia? The people who lost pilots in droves. Perhaps we are missing a big piece of the picture? Or it may have been a long-term, continuous meat-grinder of a fight, with no particular single battle. Still, it must have been significant in pilots and planes, and therefore a big part of the air war in Europe.

    My nickel.


    there should be a major movie about kursk but with as few german panzers (the russians were TOO good at their work) as there are remaining itd have to be mostly CGI. imagine how much itd cost and what a pain production would be. thats probably why it hasnt been made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    Speaking of Kursk movies, and speaking off-topic ( ):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcekvQeHS6o

    (Soviet 1969 movie about Kursk Battle).

    Back on topic, I believe Eastern front gives interesting opportunities for various aerial scenarios (specially with usefull Stukas in 1945, as Sven mentioned). And I believe it's better to spend available slots on airplanes which have significant role in WW2 theatres of war. Soviet aviation, although not having major battle as BoB or Midway, has many interesting battles with different opponents, as mentioned in my and Rafal's posts. And if Belgian and French models exist, I guess Fins deserve some models too.
    is there an english dubbed version for us poor monolinguistic americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    I usually borrow a line from _Dilbert_ to explain "who won the War": "The Western Allies fought smarter; the Soviets fought harder". The West understood the Germans had generally-better ground forces; so avoided taking them on head-on whenever possible -- the bombing campaigns, the naval war, all these were the "second front". Stalin, being as much a "Landser" as Adolf ever was, couldn't see that (and even if he had: Better to let the capitalists and the Hitlerites bleed each other, than burn any of his own resources).
    nice, very succinct

  29. #129

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    Phillip,

    unfortunately, as I know, there's no Еnglish dubbed version...

  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    you have to remember for the formative years of many of us american wog fans the soviet union was the "evil empire" (and, honestly, wasnt it) and therefor, the eastern front struggle was part of that
    Well, that's the point. It's just the matter not to mix gameplay nad feelings/politics. Believe me, being Polish I'd have more that enough reasons not to play any German or Russian WW2 planes, but I consider game as a game, nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    because to admit its heroism in ww2 is to diminish the possibility of maintaining them as an enemy "them" apart from "us". school curriculum is as much propaganda as anything and will always reflect prevailing views of the culture it is a part of (you should see it over here THESE DAYS, but DO NOT GET ME STARTED).
    Well, I was behind Iron Curtain THESE DAYS, yet I was able to research what's happened on the European West Front and in the Pacific, for instance. Don't tell me that it was worse in US than here, 'cause that brings me big question where actualy this "democratic, free world" is.

    But stop about politics and coming back to game. Maybe it's time for you guys in US to change that approach and jump into some more oriental scenarios, like EF ones for example?

    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    (can you imagine enemy at the gates being made in say, the 60s, 70s or 80s?).
    Well, difucult to assess from here, but probably not (by the way, one of my favourite war-movies, far better that "Saving Private Ryan" to me). If you want to know about what was the reality here in the East just after the war I recomend you Polish film "Róża" ("Rose" in English). It's about the masurian people who were living on the territory of German East Prussia, and now they are in Polish borders. They've been always treated as "polish scum" by Germans, but after polish communists came into power, they were considered as "german traitors". Really moving story.
    The trailer with english subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4vgXbCr13E
    and the other one, without subtitles unfortunately: http://vimeo.com/36834138

  31. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    Well, that's the point. It's just the matter not to mix gameplay nad feelings/politics. Believe me, being Polish I'd have more that enough reasons not to play any German or Russian WW2 planes, but I consider game as a game, nothing more.



    Well, I was behind Iron Curtain THESE DAYS, yet I was able to research what's happened on the European West Front and in the Pacific, for instance. Don't tell me that it was worse in US than here, 'cause that brings me big question where actualy this "democratic, free world" is.

    But stop about politics and coming back to game. Maybe it's time for you guys in US to change that approach and jump into some more oriental scenarios, like EF ones for example?



    Well, difucult to assess from here, but probably not (by the way, one of my favourite war-movies, far better that "Saving Private Ryan" to me). If you want to know about what was the reality here in the East just after the war I recomend you Polish film "Róża" ("Rose" in English). It's about the masurian people who were living on the territory of German East Prussia, and now they are in Polish borders. They've been always treated as "polish scum" by Germans, but after polish communists came into power, they were considered as "german traitors". Really moving story.
    The trailer with english subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4vgXbCr13E
    and the other one, without subtitles unfortunately: http://vimeo.com/36834138


    sorry if my post implied anything about politics or such that wasnt my intent and i dont think thats the issue. i was commenting more about reasons the general lack of interest-sales. it has more to do with how the history was presented (or not) in our schools. lack of information = ignorance=lack of interest=slow sales nothing more or less. it has nothing to do with the politics (other than of those that chose the curriculum) or the rightness or wrongness of the issue.

    as a ww2 history buff i, myself was able to glean quite a bit about the eastern front but that represents a lot of personal study by myself and goes far beyond what the average student was presented in class. most of my peers had little interest in ww2 period let alone specific areas of it. thats in part why my hobby is my hobby ( i collect militaria from ww1 and ww2) to bring reminders of ww2 alive out of the grainy black and white photos that represent most peoples only link with those bygone events and remind them what the vets endured and how truly awful and horrific those wars were.

    my comments werent meant to imply that educational system in the us at that time was worse or more restrictive than behind the iron curtain. they werent. its just that the info simply wasnt taught to students. much information was available but you had to dig it out yourself. you also have to remember in the 70s the aftermath of the vietnam war caused anything military or war history related to be shunned. those that showed any interest in it were considered to be war mongering jingoists. so many students didnt bother to learn anything about it. my comments about the curricula THESE DAYS have to do with what the liberal left are pushing as education under the aegis of "common core". ill not inflict that particular rant here.

    i know a scant bit about the subject because of stalin not wanting to give up the part of poland he seized in 1939 and president roosevelt giving in to him and agreeing to it. so polands borders were 200 miles west and and german (perceived or otherwise) citizens were forcibly relocated further west. im always willing to learn more however.

  32. #132

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    Neither I intended to go into political discussion. In fact I must admit it happens in Europe as well, I mean a lot of youg people not interested in history (nor WW2 in particular). That's why I try to bring pieces of history to them as often as possible, being that during a trip or a game. That's how they learn about it. Take for instance the Battle of Thermopylae. I bet more people is aware of it now then before the film "300" was made, even if it is just based on comic book. That's simply how it is now.

    I'd gladly deliver some information about what has happened in Europe's Wild East Some very interesting stories are still to be discovered here.

    As for the film itself, I do not know if it is available in US. I could find it on the web, as it is quite new one (released three years ago), so still copyright protected. If it is possible just take a chance to watch it. It stays in mind for long.

  33. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    ...
    I consider game as a game, nothing more.
    ...
    And that's the point - to play and have fun. Personally, I take every wargame with a grain of roleplay, too

  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    And that's the point - to play and have fun. Personally, I take every wargame with a grain of roleplay, too


    me to even though im considered a bit silly for it. nothing wrong with being a bit silly at times lol

  35. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    nothing wrong with being a bit silly at times lol
    Good point! I have to remember that!

  36. #136

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    It's a sad comment on where society is that *any* subject risks becoming The P-Word.

    "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    Well, I was behind Iron Curtain THESE DAYS, yet I was able to research what's happened on the European West Front and in the Pacific, for instance. Don't tell me that it was worse in US than here, 'cause that brings me big question where actualy this "democratic, free world" is.
    Actually, it was extremely difficult to research the Russian POV of The Great Patriotic War. Most, if not all, casual readers, and most academics, were reading the memoirs of the Germans, with very little counter-point from the Russian side. And a lot we did get was propaganda and disinformation, and the actual stuff got lost in that, and was often not believed. Some things got through, but you really had to pick at it to find some facts.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  38. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    Hello guys,

    I've made some reasearch on the topic, since I was really curious what can be found on the internet. Apart of some rather not significant, general statement I found also an analysis, which gives quite nice overview. The figures below come from “Luftwaffe” by Williamson Murray, a British author. His sources for the losses were the actual German records sent by each Jagdgeschwader to Luftwaffe Headquarters and for the eyes of the Luftwaffe Commanders only. They are not based on either Allied or Soviet claims of aircraft destroyed. The figures are not always complete, however enough is there to shed light on the realities of who and where losses were inflicted. I hope this will be as interesting for you guys as it was for me

    And yes Sven, your're right . It seems that Luftwaffe was bleeding on the West, while Wehrmaht was bleeding on the East.

    ...

    Well, well. What an impressive off-topic post I've prepared. Sorry for that
    Rafal,
    There is lots of info in your post, directly in line with my inquiry of the air war on the Eastern Front.

    However, it is only half the picture. It speaks of the losses by the German side. What I would like to have is the other side, as well, so we can see, perhaps, if there were big battles over the time on the front.

    Are there similar air battles, unrecognized to date, that deserve study and scenarios? Perhaps there was a "Kursk of the Air"?

    With this release of planes we won't be recreating them, unfortunately.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

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    I shall track the posts above later on, but when we speak about intensity of aerial warfare over the EF one thing comes to my mind. All of the Bubi Hartmann's victories were achieved right there...352 and just 7 one day, 7th of July 1943 during the battle of Kursk. These numbers speak for themselves.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  40. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    ...

    I also agree that there was significant events on the Eastern Front. Look at the ace tallies for the Germans that flew there. Their numbers are unbelievable, compared to any other country's pilots. Some exceedingly heavy combat must have happened there, and I don't have a frame of reference for it. It should have a significant component in Ares releases based on numbers. Now I'm going to have to look at numbers of planes, and sortie rates for that front. Anyone got those on hand?

    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    ... but when we speak about intensity of aerial warfare over the EF one thing comes to my mind. All of the Bubi Hartmann's victories were achieved right there...352 and just 7 one day, 7th of July 1943 during the battle of Kursk. These numbers speak for themselves.
    Exactly, Andy! Perhaps there was a shooting gallery over Kursk. The Russians won't be writing that story, and not enough Germans or records survived to do that analysis, except cryptically.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  41. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Exactly, Andy! Perhaps there was a shooting gallery over Kursk. The Russians won't be writing that story, and not enough Germans or records survived to do that analysis, except cryptically.
    It was an intensive air combat situation over Kursk; the problem for the Germans was that the "shooting gallery" shot back.
    According to the wiki article, the Luftwaffe lost between 524 and 621 planes (this includes the counter-offensives).
    The USSR lost possibly as many as 1100 planes.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  42. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    It was an intensive air combat situation over Kursk; the problem for the Germans was that the "shooting gallery" shot back.
    According to the wiki article, the Luftwaffe lost between 524 and 621 planes (this includes the counter-offensives).
    The USSR lost possibly as many as 1100 planes.
    Karl
    And now who's gonna tell me this fray does not deserve to be replayed in WoG?
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  43. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    And now who's gonna tell me this fray does not deserve to be replayed in WoG?
    Not me. If I paint them, will you come to my house to play?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  44. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    And now who's gonna tell me this fray does not deserve to be replayed in WoG?
    ...to be replayed in WoG?

    The customer does.

    You can fill boxes with Eastern Front AIM minatures but Ares will not produce Russian planes before we get the badly needed US planes and their opponents.

    Those planes simply represent the Allied air superiority that was hardly won over Western Europe, North Africa and the Pacific.

    You have a broad variety of scenarios there, much more options - from carrier battles to torpedo attacks and massive bomber offensives versus industries & cities, etc. You have those small remains of chivalry from WWI. You have this good versus evil feeling and maybe a better information, movie presence and detailed knowledge because of the access to Allied & Axis archives during the cold war, unlike Russian archives.


    What feeling offers us the Air War at the Eastern front? A fascist and a communist system that fought each others in an inhuman way. An air war that concentrates mainly on support of ground troops.

    To bail out for German pilots was mostly a death sentence by Partisans or the inhospitable land. Same for Russians pilots who suffered so much by a wrong attack doctrine or bad training. Of course their chances weren't better when getting imprisoned.


    I like to play Eastern front scenarios, but if you ask me about the Ares Games planes that should be released the next years, Russians planes have no priority.


    But I would buy them anyways, because I like the miniatures from Nexus & Ares.

    That's an important difference, release & buy, because in former threads I always was a fan of uncommon planes like the last Biplanes and Beaufighters.
    Last edited by Marechallannes; 10-20-2014 at 23:01.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  45. #145

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    Bad and good feeling (or ideology) in wargame is not important, at least for me. If ideology would have that impact, why anyone would buy (and play with) ancient Romans? Basically, they were the bad guys of their time. Or why would anyone ever play national-socialist side, for example? I still stand firm that Eastern front should be released in some (close) future series. And we do have two Soviet airplane models present. One homemade and one Land-Lease. It shows that Ares doesn't considers Eastern Front. However, Eastern front isn't covered in term of main planes that fought there, and that hole should be filled, combined with adding some tactical Soviet bombers.

    There are, as I mentioned before, many interesting wars combining early Soviet planes, and two series, carefully designed, could cover Spanish Civil War (many Americans fought there on Republican side, if that's of importance), Winter/Continuation wars and even early WW2. There's Khalkin Gol (Nomonhan incident), there are fights over Poland in 1939. If their idea was to concentrate over major theatres of war, they shouldn't release Belgian and French airplanes. Not even Soviet ones, as they started a theatre which is now unfinished.

    So, if Ares would use it's resources smartly, not spending them on planes not necessary at the moment (as Me 410 unfortunately is), lots of new possibilities opens in next few years.

    AIM models you mentioned (or Shapeways, on that matter) are good substitute. But, to get them on tabletop, you have to paint them first, find appropriate decals or even design and print your own ones. Than you have to (have) design(ed) and print(ed) airplane card and to by stands an peg. Of course, true fan wouldn't mind it , but it's better to get your stuff pre-painted and ready to play.

    Speaking of which (I was reluctant to write this, as I'm not sure about Ares' actual interest in that market), but decals for certain wars/thetares could help.
    Last edited by Пилот; 10-21-2014 at 02:53.

  46. #146

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    I may get a dozen F4Us as they would make great repaint fodder, I have a good few books with carrier markings for these. Be great for a pacific campaign.

    Glad to see they finally came out with the Corsair.

  47. #147

  48. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    If their idea was to concentrate over major theatres of war, they shouldn't release Belgian and French airplanes. Not even Soviet ones, as they started a theatre which is now unfinished.
    It was a Nexus policy to try and work in as many nationalities as possible in a release. That early on, I don't think they had a large enough data source to know that sales were really bad for WGS here in the US (their largest market). WWII is probably the most popular historical wargame era over here and Nexus was failing at it pretty bad. Once Ares took over and started to get some other own series to market, we started to see the switch to more main stream aircraft. They understand that in order for WGS to survive, they have to get these mainstream planes out there, and fast. Do they make mistakes in these releases, you bet. But if you really look at the long term business and gaming plan they are putting into place, their choices are really not that odd.

  49. #149

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    Yes, Nexus, sorry! But Ares did release two Soviets and one Chinese, nevertheless... But, never mind.

    What do you think, Keith, is Ares (or even Aerodrome?) ready to deal with decals for theatres and wars available at Shapeways or AIM, for example, and not planned to be released by Ares? Decals, also, are very suitable for repainting existing miniatures released by Ares.

  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    Yes, Nexus, sorry! But Ares did release two Soviets and one Chinese, nevertheless... But, never mind.
    I'd have to dig through my emails and such, but I'm fairly positive that Series 3 (and maybe even Series 4) was a holdover from Nexus. Meaning, that the research, selection, design and in some case, production steps (molds and tooling), were already started under Nexus. Ares continued with those selections due to the time and investment already made in them before taking over. I think the first truly Ares minis were the tactical bombers or maybe Series 4.


    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    What do you think, Keith, is Ares (or even Aerodrome?) ready to deal with decals for theatres and wars available at Shapeways or AIM, for example, and not planned to be released by Ares? Decals, also, are very suitable for repainting existing miniatures released by Ares.
    I can say 100% that Ares is notgoing to make and release decals for other manufacture's planes. In the early days, some of the Wings of War crew wanted/looked at including a small decal sheet with each mini to allow the customer to re-decal them to different aircraft. But that meant either the minis had to come incomplete (with no unit/pilot markings, it was not truly a completely pre-painted mini), or the customer had to actually repaint (or scrape off the original decals somehow) the mini. Both of which goes against the core marketing strategy of the game, pre-painted minis ready to play right out of the box.

    I have been pushing Ares to design and release Squadron Packs. These would be 3 or 4 plane boxed sets that contain only planes from a single squadron. This would be the best type of product for them to try and release decals with. They could simply supply all 3-4 planes in basic squadron markings and give us a decal sheet of 6-8 pilots (so we want to buy two sets lol). WGS would be the perfect game for this due to the standardization of paint schemes and unit markings in WWII.


    As for AA offering 1/200 scale decals for WGA, not very likely. Sells for WGS minis are still slow, even with a large portion of this community supporting the AA store After the initial release, sells drop of sharply for WGS. Factor that in with my WGS specific accessories being the lowest sellers of any of my products and slower than desired sells of WGF decals, it is not an option I will be exploring any time soon. Sorry.

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