Right so Ive got both duel packs

**Trumpet** · 08-21-2014 00:51

As the title says ive got both duel sets but want to expand it a little, I was thinking a two seater for the central to give bombing , observer missions etc and then maybe a fighter for the other side to even it up a bit, the problem is which ones are balanced with each other.I was thinking maybe Halberstadt CL.II with a Sopwith Camel (Elwood) any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks

**milcoll73** · 08-21-2014 01:35

hhhmmmm thats a tough call. 1 on 1 with the balancing effect of the boom card id say any 2 seaters a match for pretty much any fighter (and outclasses some of the earlier fighters). they tend to have more hitpoints as well as the increased firing arcs. the faster more maneuverable fighters actually have a bit more difficulty staying lined up to shoot the 2 seaters due to their increased speed.

the sticking point is when you add multiple fighters vs multiple fighters and 1, 2 seater. the enemy fighters tend to gang up on the 2 seater while mostly ignoring its escort (except for the odd shot of opportunity when the 2 seaters out of arc). id think about adding 2 or more 2 seaters for a "mission backup" so if one gets shot down the mission isnt immediately over.

the halberstadt cl.II is indeed a dangerous opponent (as is its series mate the britsol f2b). if you run it like we house rule it, its even more so. after looking at period pics and seeing a barrel deflector "hoop" added to the top wing to prevent the rear gunner from shooting off the propeller tips we agreed to allow it to fire the remaining 360 degrees NOT encompassed by the front arc. in playtesting it in some of our "free for all" furballs it holds its own quite well, even vs other 2 seaters (and bombers for that matter!).

for escorting mission id consider bombers for several reasons; they look awesome! they have the hit points to withstand being ganged up on for a bit (barring getting owned by the boom card). theyre currently available and, if past performance is any indicator, theyll all too soon sell out and become unavailable.

more of any mins is always better

a sentiment, im sure, that will be echoed by most here!!!!!

**flash** · 08-21-2014 01:49

Hi Stephen, I'd suggest get the Halb & the Brisfit so each side has a two-seater then you can run both against a single or pair of enemy scouts or even against eachother ! Believe me you'll regret it later if you don't

LOOP · 08-21-2014 04:01

You said it Flash!!

If you want to buy some aditional fighters. I'd go for a Hanroit HDI, a Sopwith Triplane or another Camel to the entendente side
and a Fokker DVII, a Siemens Schuckert DIII or an Aviatik DI. All fun to fly

**Du doch nicht!** · 08-21-2014 04:43

Long time ago I started with the first deluxe edition and thought I was more or less complete. Well, the feeling lasted about a week!

So, next I would aim my sights on more planes of the 1917 timeframe and trying to keep numbers and quality on both sides balanced. Some 2-seaters and a bomber is a very good idea - but I have the feeling sooner or later you will end up with much more than you did plan initially

LOOP · 08-21-2014 06:22

Originally Posted by milcoll73

the faster more maneuverable fighters actually have a bit more difficulty staying lined up to shoot the 2 seaters due to their increased speed.

This is so true! I have done some (very unsientific

) testing regarding this and I think the Dr1 or N17 are best.

LOOP · 08-21-2014 06:23

But you have to catch the 2-seaters first

**OldGuy59** · 08-21-2014 08:22

Originally Posted by LOOP

But you have to catch the 2-seaters first

What he said.

I put together a scenario for the Over the Trenches - the Last Months last year, and play testing highlighted this issue. I found out that even starting the two-seater's at the far edge and the intercepters at the top/bottom of the table, the two-seater's could get across the table before the intercepters became a threat. So, I changed the intended two-seater's for slower planes (IIRC, RE8s vs DH4s).

**surfimp** · 08-21-2014 11:04

He's got a SPAD XIII... catching a Halbie won't be a problem

I'd like to suggest a slightly different tack: try getting a two seater that doesn't have an Immelman card.

The Britsol and Halberstadt CL.II are great planes, no doubt, but I've found the most fun comes from having a less maneuverable two seater. Then it becomes something for the scouts to both attack and defend, rather than simply a "scout by other means" that just happens to have guns at both ends.

I really like the Breguet - it's tough, it's not too fast nor too slow, but it cannot survive on its own. Can very plausibly serve in photo recon, ground attack, and bomber missions. Plus it's huge and looks great on the table!

As for scouts, I personally like being able to have depth in a given plane type, so I can simulate flights and/or patrols using multiples of the same plane rather than mixing a bunch of disparate types together (although the latter did of course happen). Also being the proud owner of both duel packs, I would be looking at getting another Camel or SPAD as well as another Dr.1 or Albatros. Probably the Albatros as they were numerically about an order of magnitude more common than the Dr.1. Or go later war and get a Fokker D.VII... everyone should have a few of those, they're arguably one of (if not the) very best scouts in the game!

**Trumpet** · 08-22-2014 22:01

Thanks for the advice once again,I'm going to go with the two two seaters Halberstadt and Bristol to start with and then like suggested maybe an Albatros and a Camel or Spad ,out of the Spad and Camel which would you experienced players go for having two spads does this make an in balance.
Thanks again

**Trumpet** · 08-23-2014 04:39

What about a Sopwith Snipe over a camel and spad?

**Flying Helmut** · 08-23-2014 04:51

The only problem with the Snipe is that it is VERY late-war - only the last 48 days IIRC!
This limits its opponents to late 1918 planes - fine for the Duel packs you already have, but limiting further choice of earlier aircraft later on in your collecting career!
The Camel has a unique manoeuvre deck, and flies unlike anything else - the Snipe is a cross between the Spad and the Camel, so a bit similar to both.
An SE5a is a very different beast, and I would recommend getting one if you can, but they are long OOP!
A Fokker DVII is a must!

**FarEast** · 08-23-2014 05:21

Consulting the manual and also protocol regarding what to do after having purchased both duel packs is to go out and buy absolutely everything you can get your hands on!

**surfimp** · 08-23-2014 07:05

Originally Posted by Trumpet

Thanks for the advice once again,I'm going to go with the two two seaters Halberstadt and Bristol to start with and then like suggested maybe an Albatros and a Camel or Spad ,out of the Spad and Camel which would you experienced players go for having two spads does this make an in balance.

Well I'm a SPAD fanatic but I'm also honest so I'll come right out and say it: because the SPAD XIII is extremely fast (fastest in the game, along with the SE5a) but not very maneuverable, it can be tricky to fly on smaller tables.

By comparison, the Camel is pretty fast (in game, same speed as Fokker D.VII, Albatros D.Va and SPAD VII), but it is also one of the very most maneuverable planes - especially when turning to the right! So it loves any size tables and is a superlative dogfighter. In real life, it was credited with shooting down more enemy aircraft than any other Entente fighter, after all!

But before you take that as an endorsement of the Camel over the SPAD, allow me to continue

When given enough space, the SPAD XIII's speed allows it to fly into and out of engagements at will - because none of the Central planes can keep up. This is the essence of so-called "Boom and Zoom" and "Hit and Run" tactics. If you have two or more SPAD XIIIs working together, this can create real headaches for Central planes -if they choose to chase one - and they have to chase one! - the other can swing around and come in from behind, and so forth. When executed well, this can be BIGTIME FUN for the SPAD pilot... just sayin'

Now, to further complicate things, if you can find an SE5a, then you'll get the speed of the SPAD XIII combined with most (but not quite all) of the maneuverability of the Camel. It's definitely one of the most powerful planes in the game!!

On the Central side, the Albatros D.Va is a solid choice. As fast as the SPAD VII but more maneuverable, tough, and with twin guns for A deck damage. It was a mainstay of the Central Powers air force and with good cause.

But... the real beast on the Central side, and arguably the single best plane in the game, is the Fokker D.VII. It's not quite as fast as the SPAD XIII, but whatever it lacks in speed, it makes up for in maneuverability. While nothing matches the Camel and Dr.1 for tight turns, with the Fokker D.VII it pretty much doesn't matter because it can turn really well both directions, not just to the right. Combined with toughness and twin guns it is not to be trifled with. It has also just been re-released, so I would encourage you to get one or more before they become hard to find.

So, to bring my overly long reply to a close, I think FarEast got it right:

Originally Posted by FarEast

Consulting the manual and also protocol regarding what to do after having purchased both duel packs is to go out and buy absolutely everything you can get your hands on!

That approach has been working for me!!

**Naharaht** · 08-25-2014 11:22

Eventually, you should think about buying a copy of the Rules and Accessories Pack.

**Boney10** · 08-25-2014 12:06

Originally Posted by LOOP

You said it Flash!!

If you want to buy some aditional fighters. I'd go for a Hanroit HDI, a Sopwith Triplane or another Camel to the entendente side
and a Fokker DVII, a Siemens Schuckert DIII or an Aviatik DI. All fun to fly

Nooooooo DO NOT get the Sopwith Tri thing, it's rubbish.

Do get the Halberstadt and Brisfit, in fact I would go for a wingman also, oh I did, so yes go for two of each of these.
Rest is all good advice, go for as many single seaters as you can, Camels and DV are a match, a couple of a Fokker DR 1 are always nice to have, a couple of the new Albatross D2 and Spad 7 also are worth getting, the Spad 7 can also be used with the DVa, for a while at least.
Keep watching for the a R and A pack when you can.

**surfimp** · 08-25-2014 13:02

Originally Posted by Boney10

Nooooooo DO NOT get the Sopwith Tri thing, it's rubbish.

I'm curious why don't you like the Tripehound? It's as fast as the SPAD VII and quite maneuverable, especially for a late-1916 plane. There's even a version that does A deck damage (though that's a bit of a stretch, historically speaking, as only a handful were built and had reduced performance versus the single gun variety, something not reflected in the supplied maneuver cards for the A-decked plane).

Anyways it's far from the worst midwar Entente fighter in my view?

**Flying Helmut** · 08-25-2014 13:56

Originally Posted by Boney10

Flaming iPad double post, sorry

Does this explain the WingCo's flammability?

**Flying Helmut** · 08-25-2014 14:00

Originally Posted by surfimp

I'm curious why don't you like the Tripehound? It's as fast as the SPAD VII and quite maneuverable, especially for a late-1916 plane. There's even a version that does A deck damage (though that's a bit of a stretch, historically speaking, as only a handful were built and had reduced performance versus the single gun variety, something not reflected in the supplied maneuver cards for the A-decked plane).

Anyways it's far from the worst midwar Entente fighter in my view?

Oh, No!!!!!
Sound the alert!

Into the trenches, tin hat on, fingers in ears, sing a La-la-la song, and repeat.....................

**surfimp** · 08-25-2014 14:08

Originally Posted by Flying Helmut

Oh, No!!!!!
Sound the alert!

Into the trenches, tin hat on, fingers in ears, sing a La-la-la song, and repeat.....................

OK, so before we go off the rails completely, I understand that amongst some circles, there is (non-trivial) disappointment with the accuracy of the Tripe models.

Also, we can debate whether it should really be given a movement rate equal to the SPAD VII (I think that's quite generous to the Tripe and belittling to the SPAD), but it's a moot point as it is what it is.

But with those caveats duly noted, within the context of the game it's certainly fun to play with!!

**FarEast** · 08-25-2014 14:20

Originally Posted by Naharaht

Eventually, you should think about buying a copy of the Rules and Accessories Pack.

I would hold off on that for now as most of the rules can be downloaded legitimately for free at Fantasy Flight Games:

Wings of War rules (pdf, Approx. 1.9M)
Wings of War: Burning Drachens rules (pdf, 2.2M)
Wings of War FAQ (pdf, 401K)
Wings of War Miniatures rules — this is a comprehensive rulebook including rules for altitude, two-seater airplanes, and more! (pdf, 1MB)
Wings of War: Balloon Busters rules (pdf, 1 MB)
Wings of War: Flight of the Giants rules (pdf, 4.7 MB)

It's a bit of a PITA and I eventually bought the Accessories and Rules Pack so that everything was consolidated and at hand for easy reference, also some of the rules have changed/tweaked. But right now I would invest in miniatures. I would second the 2-seater advice as this will now give you the ability to fly more scenario based games which in my own opinion is where the fun really begins!

I would suggest taking a look at the Over Trenches Campaign Final Months as this will give you an idea of the games you can play with your current aircraft and an idea of what to purchase next.

I made the mistake of not really researching so when I discovered the Early Doors Campaign and got invited to play I had a rather large shopping list.

**Boney10** · 08-25-2014 16:53

Originally Posted by surfimp

I'm curious why don't you like the Tripehound? It's as fast as the SPAD VII and quite maneuverable, especially for a late-1916 plane. There's even a version that does A deck damage (though that's a bit of a stretch, historically speaking, as only a handful were built and had reduced performance versus the single gun variety, something not reflected in the supplied maneuver cards for the A-decked plane).

Anyways it's far from the worst midwar Entente fighter in my view?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh gggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
There is nothing what so ever wrong with the Sopwith Triplane, as a matter of fact I really like it, game wise it is quite good also, better than the DR1 in my humble opinion. It's fun to play with, I have 8 in my collection

BUT what is wrong is the absolutely appalling model that was served up to us and with the audacity to call it a Sopwith Triplane.
The model has the wings incorrect for the centre, in my opinion, while the struts for the top wing more resemble cabine struts than a Tripehound. In my models all looked as though someone had glued the top wing onto the model and pushed down hard, bending the top wing downwards while at the same time snipping off something like three mm off them .
The only way the official Sopwith Triplane resembles the said aircraft is in name only.
The paint schemes great, the model absolute horse manure.

Yes this is a pet hate of mine, yes it is the cause of my avatar, no I will not let this go, sorry

Hate it, Hate it, Hate it

**surfimp** · 08-25-2014 17:05

Originally Posted by Boney10

OOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh gggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

<snip>

Hate it, Hate it, Hate it

Heheh, duly noted! Sorry for the newbie question, and thanks for explaining. Presumably a "prescription" from Dr. Shapeways, or some good old fashioned modeling, can help the pain go away

**gully_raker** · 08-25-2014 18:08

Originally Posted by surfimp

I'm curious why don't you like the Tripehound? It's as fast as the SPAD VII and quite maneuverable, especially for a late-1916 plane. There's even a version that does A deck damage (though that's a bit of a stretch, historically speaking, as only a handful were built and had reduced performance versus the single gun variety, something not reflected in the supplied maneuver cards for the A-decked plane).

Anyways it's far from the worst midwar Entente fighter in my view?

Its not the Sop Tripehound itself its the Mini he hates as the top wing is not spaced equally as it should be.
However you just buy one & get a Shapeways & paint it up & use it & "Bob's Your Uncle"!

**csadn** · 08-25-2014 20:05

Originally Posted by Trumpet

Thanks for the advice once again,I'm going to go with the two two seaters Halberstadt and Bristol to start with and then like suggested maybe an Albatros and a Camel or Spad ,out of the Spad and Camel which would you experienced players go for having two spads does this make an in balance.
Thanks again

For a truly "balanced" Entente unit, get the Hanriot HD.1 -- it handles better than the SPADs and SE5s, is faster than the Camels, and comes in a variety of damage decks.

**Boney10** · 08-26-2014 02:05

Agree with Chris about the HD1, quite a nice little aircraft, has a couple of stings that are worth playing with.
Again the official model is not 100% accurate with the struts but playable.
As for the Tripe,
I removed the top wing and replaced the struts on mine, wasn't as easy as I initially thought, the struts needed to have the wing placed to angle properly so couldn't make as many as hoped, but the Shapeways one is 100% better.

LOOP · 08-26-2014 07:10

Originally Posted by csadn

For a truly "balanced" Entente unit, get the Hanriot HD.1 -- it handles better than the SPADs and SE5s, is faster than the Camels, and comes in a variety of damage decks.

As fast as the Camel you mean? But otherwise I'm with you a 100%. (but a SE5a is a SE5a.......)

**Trumpet** · 08-26-2014 09:13

Along with my two seaters I have ordered a camel and one of the new Fokkers , hope I made a good choice to go with my duel packs.

**surfimp** · 08-26-2014 09:40

That's a great choice! You'll have a bunch of fun.

**sekwah275** · 08-26-2014 12:04

Im in the same position as you having just got the duel packs and have ordered the same as you, lets hope we're both right! Best of luck to you!

**milcoll73** · 08-26-2014 12:48

id reiterate to both stephen and jon. id get a bomber or 2 while theyre available. they really add a whole new dimension to the game even if you dont use them for bombing. my 1st impression of them was of a slow, lumbering target that was easy meat for the fighters. while the slow and lumbering part may be true (this actually works as an asset against faster planes) its anything but easy meat for smaller a/c especially if theyre arent a large number of fighters to gang up on it.

**Trumpet** · 08-26-2014 13:00

Yes I'm sure we have chosen well Jon it's all on the advice of this great forum,Mine should be here at my local store Thursday so I will let you know.The only problem now is I'm looking at my next purchase though bombers for some reason don't seem to appeal to me I know that's going against the good advice here but I'm liking the look of two seaters and scout/ fighters at the moment.
Thanks again to all of you for all the advice and guidance with this game.

LOOP · 08-26-2014 22:44

[QUOTE=Trumpet;305331]The only problem now is I'm looking at my next purchase QUOTE]

Hey!!

Already got bitten by the colectors-bug

Well that's so easy to to become

Welcome to the club

**sekwah275** · 08-27-2014 01:08

Originally Posted by milcoll73

id reiterate to both stephen and jon. id get a bomber or 2 while theyre available. they really add a whole new dimension to the game even if you dont use them for bombing. my 1st impression of them was of a slow, lumbering target that was easy meat for the fighters. while the slow and lumbering part may be true (this actually works as an asset against faster planes) its anything but easy meat for smaller a/c especially if theyre arent a large number of fighters to gang up on it.

Thanks milcoll, I'm certainly interested in bombers as a third aircraft type to play with - can't wait to get a fleet of He-111, Lancaster and B-17 for WGS, I'm just struggling to be enthused by the look of the WW1 bombers for some reason. I love the aesthetic of WW1 fighters and escorts, but the heavy aircraft look a bit 'catch the pigeon'

Regardless - will try to get a Gotha soon as i can, worst case ill let the other side play with it!

**Boney10** · 08-27-2014 02:00

Jon,
Take a look at other large bombers from, Shapeways and Red Eagle,
Ie the Handley Page, Staaken, these are in the works for official release.

But there are a number of other that can be used in the game using basses from AA like the AEG G IV and Fleixstowe

**surfimp** · 08-27-2014 10:18

The Gotha looks great - I've got the greenish-turquoise one, and have seen the purplish-blue one, and both look fantastic. They are quite challenging to bring down, especially if escorted by scouts. Quite fun trying to place the bomb load accurately on target, though - a real good time.

Would love to have a Felixstowe for some anti-submarine and shipping interdiction scenarios!!

**Trumpet** · 09-03-2014 06:43

So I'm just weighing up my next purchase,
I'm thinking of getting another Bristol two seater and another CL11 two seater so I will have two of each then for support,do you think this is a good way to go or should I add to my scouts I have both duel packs plus a new Fokker and a camel as you know ,I was thinking of maybe another Albatros and a Spad or camel again.Funds won't allow for all of them at the moment as I want to get the R and A when it's re printed this month .
Cheers

**Boney10** · 09-03-2014 06:54

Yes go for a wing man for the 2 seaters

**sekwah275** · 09-03-2014 07:31

I'm still tracking a similar path to you, however simply for variety I plan to go with a Roland and a DH.4 for my 2nd set of 2 seaters, that way i have a set of 2-seater fighter/bombers, and a set of more bespoke recce/bomber 2 seaters. Just my opinion

**Trumpet** · 09-03-2014 09:11

Yes I was thinking about going that way but looking at the Roland it doesn't appeal to me the C11 looks better i dont know if it actually flies better though ,not that colours help win , I do however like the DH4 colour schemes and spec, so i will probably get that later on .Seeing my 2 camels together does look good and you get to know the movements etc much faster.
What I'm trying to do is get a good balance of planes first for missions and then spread out the purchases of other planes pick up as I want sort of thing.
Jon seeing your Baron DR 1 though in your thread isn't doing my habit any good!

**surfimp** · 09-03-2014 09:29

Originally Posted by Trumpet

So I'm just weighing up my next purchase,
I'm thinking of getting another Bristol two seater and another CL11 two seater so I will have two of each then for support,do you think this is a good way to go or should I add to my scouts I have both duel packs plus a new Fokker and a camel as you know ,I was thinking of maybe another Albatros and a Spad or camel again.Funds won't allow for all of them at the moment as I want to get the R and A when it's re printed this month.

I think it really depends on the types of scenarios you most want to play, and how much space you have to play them on.

A lone two seater can do a pretty good job of holding its own against scouts, especially if it has an Immelmann card (i.e. Bristol F2b, Halberstadt CL.II) and some scouts for escort.

Then again, you might find it fun to use (for example) the Bristol Fighters as escorts for DH4s and/or RE8s (which happened in real life fwiw) against a flight of Dr.1 or D.VII interceptors (as an example). Or you could have the Bristols flying high cover for the Camels as they perform ground attack against trenches (another common mid-1918 scenario).

I've just finished "Bloody April" by Peter Hart and am finishing up his follow-up, "Aces Falling." Both are very good books that give a lot of insight into the types of missions the RFC, RNAS, and RAF were flying on the Western Front. It really helps guide plane selection for WGF games - and of course it's quite fun to re-enact historically plausible scenarios to see how they play out!

**Du doch nicht!** · 09-03-2014 13:27

Not to forget the fact that most introductions of new types happened rather gradually. Squadron by squadron, or even smaller batches (especially on the german side). So you can add variety by keeping older types in service - just as it happened in real. Some planes were in use for a surprisingly long time: Spad VII, Nieuports, Albatross-fighters...

**prymus** · 09-03-2014 14:08

Originally Posted by FarEast

Consulting the manual and also protocol regarding what to do after having purchased both duel packs is to go out and buy absolutely everything you can get your hands on!

While perhaps a tad impractical, just a tad, this is perhaps the soundest bit of advice in the thread. As for the SE5, great aircraft, I found one fairly inexpensive($25 shipped) then built 4 more Valom kits to round out the collection. Mainly bought the one official for the maneuver deck and aircraft info.