Need someone to make a file for the site.

[Oberst Hajj]

Hello All,

I'm looking for someone to take on a rather large-ish project for the site. I would like to have a file that shows all of the maneuver cards to date and which deck contains how many of each. This would most likely be best done in Excel. I'd like to have a scan of the actual card its self down the side with the list of decks along the top (perhaps even grouped by speed bands).

This will require someone to have and scan one of each of the maneuver cards (Maybe Guntruck has a head start on this?). If a maneuver has both a steep and non steep version of it, it should be listed as a separate maneuver.

Is anyone up for making this file?

[Zoe Brain]

You'd need separate ones for WGF and WGS of course.

Once you've decided on the format, you can break down the task, as I feel it's many hours of work. I suggest having the scans as V.2.

Each volunteer can take one deck, enter the data, submit it to config management for checking, and then move on to the next one on the list they have a copy of.

Just deciding on each card's characteristics to be recorded is non-trivial. Speed, left/right/straight, climb/dive/level, turn degrees, steep T/F, card number on deck, deck, might be a good first cut. Have I missed out anything? Should we differentiate backgrounds (there's at least 2 different versions of some). Card size for WGS?

[Guntruck]

Yes, I would probably have a head start as you say - for both WGF and WGS - but I fear adding them to the spreaddie would provoke another round of discussion on copyright issues.

It would also increase the size of the file quite substantially.

Edit: missed a bit - I'm in. I also have the dubious pleasure of being in work on 30th & 31st with no real expectation of any work to do, so if we can agree some parameters I could make a start.

[Oberst Hajj]

You'd need separate ones for WGF and WGS of course.

Once you've decided on the format, you can break down the task, as I feel it's many hours of work. I suggest having the scans as V.2.

Each volunteer can take one deck, enter the data, submit it to config management for checking, and then move on to the next one on the list they have a copy of.

Just deciding on each card's characteristics to be recorded is non-trivial. Speed, left/right/straight, climb/dive/level, turn degrees, steep T/F, card number on deck, deck, might be a good first cut. Have I missed out anything? Should we differentiate backgrounds (there's at least 2 different versions of some). Card size for WGS?

I think where we have a "Glory" version of the deck, we should use those scans and not include the older "War" version. In cases where Ares has not reprinted the deck yet, then we have to use the old style. That would also serve as a good way to tell what decks have been reprinted by Ares if we can keep this up to date.

In this file I'm not looking for the card numbers and the turn in degrees is not needed if we show an image of the card. Same with WGS when we get to it (I'm looking for WGF first).

I also don't think we have to show every speed version of each maneuver. A single Straight maneuver card would work to show that the Straight is in each deck. For WGS, the larger cards of the late war planes might deserve being listed separately though...

Yes, I would probably have a head start as you say - for both WGF and WGS - but I fear adding them to the spreaddie would provoke another round of discussion on copyright issues.

It would also increase the size of the file quite substantially.

Edit: missed a bit - I'm in. I also have the dubious pleasure of being in work on 30th & 31st with no real expectation of any work to do, so if we can agree some parameters I could make a start.

Thanks Steve. No worries about copyright here, as we are not make a replacement for any of the decks, just showing what maneuvers make up each deck I'm not overly concerned with the file size for this project. I know it will be large and I'll do what I can after we have it all together. Also, sent you a PM.

[Guntruck]

I also don't think we have to show every speed version of each maneuver.

Are you sure about this? One plane's fast left turn is another plane's slow left turn.

Should we differentiate backgrounds (there's at least 2 different versions of some). Card size for WGS?

Or, if the plan is to just show what a card looks like, use the decks I have done so the background is consistent?

[Oberst Hajj]

Are you sure about this? One plane's fast left turn is another plane's slow left turn.

For WGF this should not matter, we simply have 60° and 90° turns (right?) plus any special maneuvers like the Fokker D.VII stall turns. For WGS, more thought will have to go into this project since they have two maneuvers on most cards.

[David Manley]

Is this going to be posted? If yes, won't that just allow people to make their own decks?

[Oberst Hajj]

Is this going to be posted? If yes, won't that just allow people to make their own decks?

Yes, it will be posted. But no, you could not make decks from it for a couple of reasons:

1. Not every card is going to be in the file. Just one of each type. So for example, the Straight card used in the file will be from the A deck. So you could not create any other deck besides the A (or equivocal speed deck). If we change speed bands on several other cards, then you could not make the A deck etiher.

2. The card image size will be smaller than 100% and the resolution will not be high enough for decent printing even if someone was to scale them up.

[Oberst Hajj]

Or, if the plan is to just show what a card looks like, use the decks I have done so the background is consistent?

This. We only need to show what the maneuver looks like.

[David Manley]

So basically just a list of how many straights, turns, etc. with no reference to the actual distances involved?

[Oberst Hajj]

So basically just a list of how many straights, turns, etc. with no reference to the actual distances involved?

You got it. This will be used when someone asks which planes can do what maneuvers. Or when someone says I want to fly a highly maneuverable plane, a look at the chart will show which ones they might like to try.

[fast.git]

I could spend some time on this... if you've got a way to split up the labor. Don't want to complicate what is a big enough job already.

[7eat51]

Count me in.

[Oberst Hajj]

Steve and I are hashing somethings out in the background today. Once that is worked out, I think we can divide the work up by decks.

[fast.git]

Steve and I are hashing somethings out in the background today. Once that is worked out, I think we can divide the work up by decks.

Perfect.

[flash]

Zoe did most of this sometime ago - bar the pictures - and put the doc in the files (can't find it at the mo). I tweaked it for my use and added it to my unofficial stats doc so I'd always have a deck reference. It has been very useful (thanks Zoe!). The detail may help you chaps with this project:

Deck A (16) – High speed - 6.0cm - (arrow as long as the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip

Deck A* (14) – High speed - 6.0cm - (arrow as long as the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
1 right sideslip ( 1 removed from A deck )
1 left sideslip ( 1 removed from A deck )

Deck B (18) - Average speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
3 right sideslip
3 left sideslip

Deck C (20) – Average speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
3 hard right turn (90°)
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
3 right sideslip
2 left sideslip

Deck D (20) – Slow speed - 3.5cm - (arrow is 60% of the card)
3 straight
2 hard right turn (90°)
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
1 broad right sideslip - steep
1 broad left sideslip - steep

Deck E (18) – Very slow speed - 2.9cm - (arrow is 50% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
1 broad right sideslip - steep
1 broad left sideslip - steep

Deck F (20) – Average speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
1 hard right turn (90°)
1 hard left turn (90°)
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
1 broad right sideslip - steep
1 broad left sideslip - steep

Deck G (16) – Very slow speed - 2.9cm - (arrow is 50% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
1 right sideslip
1 left sideslip
1 right sideslip - steep
1 left sideslip - steep

Deck H (15) – Average speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip

Deck I (18) - Slow speed - 3.5cm - (arrow is 60% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
1 broad right sideslip - steep
1 broad left sideslip - steep

Deck J (18) - Slow speed - 3.5cm - (arrow is 60% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
3 right sideslip
3 left sideslip

Deck J* (16) - Slow speed - 3.5cm - (arrow is 60% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip ( 1 removed from J deck )
2 left sideslip ( 1 removed from J deck )

Deck K (15) – Slow speed - 3.5cm - (arrow is 60% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip

Deck L (22) – Average speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
2 hard right turn (90°)
2 hard left turn (90°)
3 right turn
3 left turn
1 stall
1 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
1 turning right stall - steep
1 turning left stall - steep

Deck M (22) – Average speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
2 hard right turn (90°)
1 hard left turn (90°)
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
2 broad right sideslip - steep
1 broad left sideslip - steep

Deck N (20) – High speed - 6.0cm - (arrow as long as the card)
3 straight
1 hard right turn (90°) - steep
1 hard left turn (90°) - steep
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
1 broad right sideslip - steep
1 broad left sideslip - steep

Deck O (22) – Average speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
2 hard right turn (90°)
2 hard left turn (90°)
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
1 broad right sideslip - steep
1 broad left sideslip - steep

Deck P (16) – Very slow speed- 2.9cm - (arrow is 50% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
1 right sideslip
1 left sideslip
1 broad right sideslip
1 broad left sideslip

Deck Q (18) – Average speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
1 hard right turn (90°) - steep
1 hard left turn (90°) - steep
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip

Deck R (18) – Very slow speed - 2.9cm - (arrow is 50% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
3 right sideslip
3 left sideslip

Deck S (16) – Average speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
1 Immelmann !

Deck T (16) – Very slow speed - 2.9cm - (arrow is 50% of the card)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip

Deck U (20) – Fast speed - 4.7cm - (arrow is 80% of the card)
3 straight
2 hard right turn (90°)
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip
2 left sideslip
1 broad right sideslip - steep
1 broad left sideslip - steep

[An O Deck minus 2 hard left turns,or, M deck minus 1 hard left turn & wide right sideslip will make a U deck]

Deck V (16) - Slow speed - 3.5cm - (arrow is 60% of the card) (Same as J*)
3 straight
3 right turn
3 left turn
2 stall - steep
1 Immelmann !
2 right sideslip ( 1 removed from J deck )
2 left sideslip ( 1 removed from J deck )

Deck XA (11) – Very very slow speed shortened (arrow is 40% of the card 1.3cm)
3 straight
3 left turns (30°)
3 right turns (30°)
2 stalls (just the arrow heads) - steep

Deck XB (11) – Very slow speed shortened (arrow is 50% of the card - 1.6 cm)
3 straight
3 left turns (30°)
3 right turns (30°)
2 stalls (just the arrow heads) - steep

Deck XC (11) – Very slow speed shortened (arrow is 50% of the card - 1.6 cm)
3 straight
3 left turns (45°)
3 right turns (45°)
2 stalls (just the arrow heads) - steep

Deck XD (11) – Very very slow speed (arrow is 40% of the card 1.3cm)
3 straight
3 left turns (45°)
3 right turns (45°)
2 stalls (normal stall length) - steep

To be honest I'm not sure that adding pictures would help, obviously adding the aircraft associated to them will - both official & unofficial types.

This has been helpful - found all sorts of typos & omissions to correct !

[fast.git]

I can how this would be very useful... thanks for the work Zoe & Dave! Now we just need to hear from Herr Oberst about how he'd like this managed.

[Oberst Hajj]

Steve has laid out the excel sheet and started inputting the data. So in a few days, we will just need a couple of people to double check the work.

[fast.git]

Count me in for that, Keith.

[Oberst Hajj]

Will do and thanks Chris.

[Guntruck]

Just sent both WW1 and WW2 sheets to Keith, so Chris can work off the turkey and Xmas pud by checking the data very shortly

[Guntruck]

The detail may help you chaps with this project:

Lots of deck info

Sure did Dave. Made me realise I missed off a deck from the spreadsheet - just after I sent it to Keith!

[fast.git]

Just sent both WW1 and WW2 sheets to Keith, so Chris can work off the turkey and Xmas pud by checking the data very shortly

Bonus! I certainly put away my fair share of holiday goodies!

[Diamondback]

The other trick's going to be anchoring the images into their cells--if they just free-float they can quickly lose context and clutter a screen.

[Oberst Hajj]

Any thoughts on how to do that?

[Diamondback]

Boss, I'm a little late to the party and most of my collection's in Remote Storage, but if you guys assemble the data and send me the images I'll give getting and keeping 'em in place a whack.

Talk about a Role Reversal... usually I'm the Hardcore Spreadsheet Builder.

[Guntruck]

I was going to suggest PDFing the tables, but if DB has a better solution....

[Diamondback]

Actually, Steve has a point--PDF IS the best way to go. Spreadsheets in raw form really shine when you need to be able to sort or create extracts from your collection of data, but PDF can be read on more computers and has the advantage of preserving formatting more readily.

[flash]

Sure did Dave. Made me realise I missed off a deck from the spreadsheet - just after I sent it to Keith!

Sorry about that - Ain't it always the way !

[fast.git]

Actually, Steve has a point--PDF IS the best way to go. Spreadsheets in raw form really shine when you need to be able to sort or create extracts from your collection of data, but PDF can be read on more computers and has the advantage of preserving formatting more readily.

I agree with what appears to be the consensus: PDF is certainly the better for a finished product. Would Excel, however, be easier to work with during the "second set of eyes" phase? Of course, I'm only asking because I'm frighteningly short of PDF creating/modifying software...

[flash]

You could also incorporate it in the Stats spreadsheet so all the required info is in one place ?

[Oberst Hajj]

I agree with what appears to be the consensus: PDF is certainly the better for a finished product. Would Excel, however, be easier to work with during the "second set of eyes" phase? Of course, I'm only asking because I'm frighteningly short of PDF creating/modifying software...

I just sent you an email with the excel file. Thanks.

[Oberst Hajj]

Anyone have all of the WGS maneuver decks and willing to proof it?

[Blackronin]

Anyone have all of the WGS maneuver decks and willing to proof it?

I have all except the J deck. I need revolution in the sky
What do you need, Keith?

[Guntruck]

Hey Joaquim, if you are volunteering I can send you a scan of the J Deck if you PM me your email address.

[Blackronin]

I am.
I need to know what to do.
I'm sending you a PM with my email.

[Blackronin]

Sent, Steve!

[Guntruck]

Well volunteered that man. Keith, can you send Joaquim the WW2 spreadsheet please?

[Oberst Hajj]

Joaquim, I'll email you the excel file. I've made some formatting changes to what Steve sent me... so use mine if he sends you one as well... mines better

[Oberst Hajj]

Well volunteered that man. Keith, can you send Joaquim the WW2 spreadsheet please?

Stop typing while I'm typing... it's rude you know. lol

[Guntruck]

Joaquim, I'll email you the excel file. I've made some formatting changes to what Steve sent me... so use mine if he sends you one as well... mines better

In that case, I won't send one, so there

[fast.git]

I'm still willing to help... but don't know what needs doing. I have all of the released WGF decks, and all of the WGS decks associated with released minis.

[Blackronin]

In that case, I won't send one, so there

No problem, Steve.
You can still send yours.

[Oberst Hajj]

I'm still willing to help... but don't know what needs doing. I have all of the released WGF decks, and all of the WGS decks associated with released minis.

If you still have questions after you read my email, just reply to the email and we'll sort it all out.

[7eat51]

If you still have questions after you read my email, just reply to the email and we'll sort it all out.

I'm in the same boat, or should I say plane. I am willing to help in any way I can. I have all of the Ares/Nexus decks - WGF and WGS.

[Oberst Hajj]

Eric, you have mail.

[monse]

For WW1, we made a file a few years ago, gathering decks of same speed :

http://merlindex.free.fr/wowadj/Mano...OWparMONSE.pdf

The file was made from this BGG Excel board :

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepag...euvers-eng-xls

If it can be of any help.

[7eat51]

Hi Folks,

I have some time over the next few weeks to work on this project. I believe I have all the card decks for Nexus and Ares planes. I will start there. Once I have that completed, I will post it for review.

The next step will be to add non-released planes that use cards in the various decks. After that, I will add any custom-made decks for non-released planes. When it comes to non-released planes, I will request some help.

As each version is completed, I will post them as Excel sheets and .pdfs.

With each new release, I will update the sheets.

I will post more info here throughout the next few days as i progress through this project. Any feedback as I go will be most appreciated.

[7eat51]

List of Released Nexus/Ares WGF Planes and Associated Maneuver Decks

Airco DH.2	P
Albatros D.II	V
Albatros D.Va	B
Albatross D.III	J
Aviatik D.I	Q
Breguet BR.14 B2	K
Bristol F.2B Fighter	S
Caproni CA.3	XD
DH4	H
Fokker D.VII	L
Fokker Dr.I	D
Fokker E.III	T
Gotha G. V	XD
Halberstadt CL.II	V
Halberstadt D.III	P
Hanriot HD.1	F
LFG Roland C.II	K
Morane-Saulnier Type N	T
Nieuport 16	R
Nieuport 17/23	I
Pfalz D.III	J
R.A.F. SE5a	N
RAF R.E. 8	K
Rumpler C.IV C.	K
Siemens-Schuckert D.III	O
Sopwith Camel	C
Sopwith Snipe	M
Sopwith Triplane	U
SPAD S.VII	B
Spad XIII	A
UFAG C.I	H

[7eat51]

Here is a link to the WGF aircraft maneuver deck matrix: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2006

This only covers released Nexus/Ares planes.

Any feedback is appreciated.