Halberstadt CL.II Firing Arcs

**fast.git** · 03-20-2014 09:26

Not sure if this thread belongs here, in Rules, or House Rules...

Regardless, has anyone given any thought to the observer's firing arcs for the newly-released CL.II? The official game piece has a set of pretty standard two-seater arcs... but the placement of the observer's weapon leads me to believe that it was capable of some over-wing fire. Was this the case? If so, should the CL.II possess a base somewhat more like that of the Roland C.II?

Thoughts?

Here are a few photos illustrating what I'm talking about...

Love this photo, by the way. Great shot.

This CL.II appears to have a hoop-shaped bar restricting the observer's field of fire directly to the front... but that's about it.

In all, the observer's weapon appears capable of over-wing fire... but I'm not sure.

**Jager** · 03-20-2014 10:00

It has been discussed; I'll have to hunt for the thread(s).
Short answer, if memory serves, use the Roland template for gun arcs.
Karl

**fast.git** · 03-20-2014 10:05

Originally Posted by Jager

It has been discussed; I'll have to hunt for the thread(s).
Short answer, if memory serves, use the Roland template for gun arcs.
Karl

Thanks Karl. I had thought so, but my search-fu failed me.

Roland template + CL.II agility = pure nasty. Love it.

**Nightbomber** · 03-20-2014 10:22

Interesting issue, Chris and Karl. Thanks for the heads up.

**Jager** · 03-20-2014 10:28

I found the discussion in the Unofficial stats committee forum; it had 2 conclusions that didn't get completely reconciled.
Short answer is as above; use the Roland arcs. The longer one was that all CL class German, and the Bristol fighter have 360 degree arcs for the rear gunners, for targets at their altitude and higher; standard rear arcs for targets below your altitude.
There is a short-range blindspot for the front and rear arcs for targets at your altitude. Also, the pilot and observer can not target the same plane.
Karl

**fast.git** · 03-20-2014 10:34

Excellent info, Karl. Thanks to you and the stats committee. Hadn't initially included them in the discussion, but this makes sense for the Hannovers as well. And, good point about the Brisfit... as if it needed any more nasty.

Think carefully before tangling with these kites.

**john snelling** · 03-20-2014 13:09

I believe the hoop is there to prevent the gunner from shooting the prop. Will double check.

**fast.git** · 03-20-2014 13:14

Originally Posted by john snelling

I believe the hoop is there to prevent the gunner from shooting the prop. Will double check.

As I understand it as well. Here's to low-tech solutions to life's not-so-little problems.

**flash** · 03-20-2014 13:34

Certainly has come up Chris - when I painted my s/ways one Max Headroom very kindly provided me with a card that had the Roland type arcs of fire - I also got a Roland base from AA store. I believe this was brought to Andreas attention when the release was first discussed but obviously Ares didn't go for it. Shame really, but I will play it as the Roland.
Rather than messing with the base It might be easier to just say 360 for targets above, anywhere but the front arc for targets same level, normal rear arc for targets below. That's my plan if I get any more.

**fast.git** · 03-20-2014 13:40

I agree. That certainly seems the easiest way to play moving forward... especially considering I acquired a number of CL.IIs and Brisfits. I will probably swap in a Roland base, however, if I'm not playing with altitude.

**john snelling** · 03-20-2014 15:03

Originally Posted by flash

Certainly has come up Chris - when I painted my s/ways one Max Headroom very kindly provided me with a card that had the Roland type arcs of fire - I also got a Roland base from AA store. I believe this was brought to Andreas attention when the release was first discussed but obviously Ares didn't go for it. Shame really, but I will play it as the Roland.
Rather than messing with the base It might be easier to just say 360 for targets above, anywhere but the front arc for targets same level, normal rear arc for targets below. That's my plan if I get any more.

Well stated and I playing that way also.

**Oberst Hajj** · 03-21-2014 05:36

Andrea would have to chime in on this, but I think these planes were not given the Roland or 360 arcs for game balance purposes.

**fast.git** · 03-21-2014 06:39

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

Andrea would have to chime in on this, but I think these planes were not given the Roland or 360 arcs for game balance purposes.

It makes sense... Brisfits and CL.IIs were widely considered to be some of the best kites of the war.

It makes me wonder, however, if any others were similarly limited or "buffed" in an attempt to achieve game balance. I've heard the arguments about possibly giving the Dr.1 a sharp left (90)... and I think the Bebe as well. Any others out there?

**john snelling** · 03-21-2014 08:04

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

Andrea would have to chime in on this, but I think these planes were not given the Roland or 360 arcs for game balance purposes.

That is why sometimes I play with points. Like the Roland increase of points they would also be increased because of the wide arc of fire. To me points lead to balance. I do realize alot of people do not like playing with points.

**Oberst Hajj** · 03-21-2014 08:25

Originally Posted by john snelling

points lead to balance.

And balance leads to the Dark side, be mindful of what you seek. em.

**john snelling** · 03-21-2014 08:59

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

And balance leads to the Dark side, be mindful of what you seek. em.

According to some I'm already there. LOL

**fast.git** · 03-21-2014 11:28

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

And balance leads to the Dark side, be mindful of what you seek. em.

Cookies?!? Did someone say something about cookies!? I like cookies...

**Jager** · 03-23-2014 08:12

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

Andrea would have to chime in on this, but I think these planes were not given the Roland or 360 arcs for game balance purposes.

Game balance is for the weak and uncertain.
Karl

**horsepyre** · 03-31-2014 09:37

Our group played around with this a little bit last night. We don't normally worry TOO much about balance, but supposing we did, anyone got a guess on what the "points value" of the CL.II and Brisfit might be with the 360 firing arcs?

As an aside, this was our group's first time flying the Bristols, and even without the 360 arc they were absolute monsters. What a scary plane...