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Thread: Fighting Zeppelins - A comprehensive set of rules needed

  1. #1

    Default Fighting Zeppelins - A comprehensive set of rules needed

    Exploring new WGF dimensions leads me to ask you chaps about a set of rules for fighting Zeppelins.
    I can not forgive myself I woke up too late that one special day at Origins 2013 to take part in an early morning run against a Zep...
    ...that Thomas AKA Cappy Tom was carrying (we had a hell of a time laughing he had been carrying a bomb and no one halted him at the entrance)

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    Now I am going to incite my group to shoot down a Zeppelin from the sky and need to know how you handle such fights.
    Well, that means I am going to have such a beast on my table (yes!).

    Any thoughts are welcome. Damage points, rules of movement, special damage and stuff. Please share with me rules you use in such scenarios.

    Thanks in advance,

    Andy.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  2. #2

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    Clipper1801 might have some ideas!

  3. #3

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    Yes! He should be the first of the first to know
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  4. #4

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    Enter into the Twilight Zone of Airship Madness would you?





    One may check in but one can never leave . . . I have a few thoughts here, strange, but shared. I have never mastered the uploading skills required for a text file, but I have my rules available by email. PM me your email and they can be yours, or rather, you can become one of the collective . . .


  5. #5

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    David, let me know if you ever want me to come over and help you clean house. I can bring my own trailer.

    If you don't mind, please email me a set of rules. I can't find the ones I had. Thanks.

  6. #6

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    PM sent, David...
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  7. #7

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    Have a look here Andrzej: Airship Attack ! Might give you what you need & probably relate to the cards you found.
    Herr Oberst had some Zep rules I believe & I know Brian (Archidamus) has someones set 'cos we played them !

  8. #8

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    Thanks very much, Mates. The info and data are very interesting
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  9. #9

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    I was just scouting around for Zeppelin rules a couple weeks ago. I'd been thinking they'd make for a good OtT scenario one of these days...

  10. #10

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    Great! I have really wanted to make a Zep but have held off not seeing any rules for them. Now I have no excuse! After Cold Wars I will have to begin production. I don't plan on becoming infected like David, at least thats the plan. One, maybe two... hmmmmm.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonSylver View Post
    I was just scouting around for Zeppelin rules a couple weeks ago. I'd been thinking they'd make for a good OtT scenario one of these days...
    Right on Rob, but remember how many failures there were before Lanoe got lucky.
    Early birds are not noted for their rate of climb as you know.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  12. #12

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    Indeed the shear altitude of operations on the Zeppelins make them very hard to approach, consequently I have added some events into the game play to force the Zeppelin down to engagement altitude, losing and engine or two, coastal air density differences, trimming mistakes etc. If you read the log books the number of problems onboard the Zeppelins often causes them to drop down for a time and become vulnerable. I have a cloud car on one for fog scenarios which makes for some fun as well.

  13. #13

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    Indeed David.
    I remember my gran telling me about one raid.
    She lived at home at the time in a house on a hill overlooking the Trent valley, and she saw one out of her bedroom window one night, flying low to get under the cloud base so that it could follow the River to Derby and Stoke.
    She swore that it looked as if it were lower than her window.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Right on Rob, but remember how many failures there were before Lanoe got lucky.
    Early birds are not noted for their rate of climb as you know.
    Rob.
    Good point. Might make for a better mid to late-ish one maybe.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonSylver View Post
    ... I'd been thinking they'd make for a good OtT scenario one of these days...
    No they wouldn't - unless you'll be supplying the Zep models to all the players Rob... in which case I'm in ..!!

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    No they wouldn't - unless you'll be supplying the Zep models to all the players Rob... in which case I'm in ..!!
    The chaps could always fly it as a card, but we would have an odd situation where the German side were doing a different scenario being the Zep crew. not so good for them I suspect.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  17. #17

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    Hello, my question is what size stand is best? I'm converting a Lindberg 38" Graf Zeppelin.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    No they wouldn't - unless you'll be supplying the Zep models to all the players Rob... in which case I'm in ..!!
    +1!

    And, as I'm on the same side of the pond, shipping won't be nearly so brutal!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by emaroli View Post
    Hello, my question is what size stand is best? I'm converting a Lindberg 38" Graf Zeppelin.
    My bases are 4" wide x 9" long 4mm acrylic

  20. #20

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    Hello together ,

    I want use a Graf Zeppelin plastic Modell in a scale 1/245 too, when I build a german war zeppelin. I think it can be a Zeppelin type R in a scale of ca. 1/200. I think I (or we) must the helms or cross wings at the stern of the zeppelin making ca. 3 cm longer. And the stern must became a hole for two Gunner with a Machine gun.

    In the moment I search two great Gondulars but I don´t know whitch plastik parts I can use for it? Two month ago I saw a picture of a self builded Zeppelin who has ca. 8 little bombbays between the two gondulars. I have make a copie of this zeppelin picture because I will build this bombbays in the same way as I saw it on this picture.

    Sorry my english is bad because I come from Germany but I hope you can understand what I will do!? In the moment I stand alone with my idear to build my own zeppelin-bomber type R. Is here anyone who has the same idear? I hope so because it will be very nice when we do it together. One of us in Germany and one of us in Great Britain or in the United Staats of America or an other nation.

    Thank you very much
    Brakiss

  21. #21

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    Hi Brakiss.
    First welcome to the Drome from the U.K. pilots.
    Your English is fine. Much better than my German.
    Your idea for using the Graff Zeppelin model sounds fine to me.
    I am waiting for one to be delivered so that I can convert it the same.
    Let us see how we progress.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  22. #22

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    Brakkis, very interested in the bomb bay picture. Could you upload into this thread please?
    See you on the Dark Side......

  23. #23

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    For my Zeppelin scenarios, I am going to use Neil's [Skafloc] management system. For a base, I made up one from images I saw here on the Forum:

    From the end of the Zeppelin at BottosCon 2014:
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    And the "Card" base I made up:
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    Note: I printed the card in a hurry, so it is plain, uncoated printer paper. Hence, the washed-out, faded appearance. Dave's stand is under the base card, with the antennae poking through the card.

    Red arcs are from the gondolas and the tail gunners. The colored arcs are from the top gun position.

    The black dots are for Dave's [clipper1801] stand rods. If you print this at 30x3, then the arcs line up with the gun positions and gondolas on the L-11 (1/214 scale) model.

    A copy is in one of my albums: WWI Central Powers Bombers
    A good copy is in the WWI files: Downloads - WWI - Custom Cards - Zeppelin Firing Arcs

    PS: I used a UHU gluestick and a piece of white plastic cardboard. Foamcore might be flatter, but not as durable? We'll have to see how much (ab)use it takes.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 01-28-2015 at 19:09.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  24. #24

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    It's all about the base Mike - great job

    "He is wise who watches"

  25. #25

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    Guys,
    which maneuver deck should zeppelin use? Is it XA (I found that it's max sped was cca 60mph/100kmh)? How maneuverable it was, and how predictable it's movement was (should it's movement be treated as usual, or as "rookie")? Also, was it slower when carrying full cargo?

    Thanks a lot!

  26. #26

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    We use the one suggested in the 'airship attack' thread which is XD deck Nemanya, it has only straights, turns and stalls (climbs & dives too) so is not very manoeuvrable at all, and we don't differentiate speeds with load as it's so slow to start with.
    To be honest it could do with a movement template similar to that used in the X-Wing game for the big models to make it work well.

    "He is wise who watches"

  27. #27

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    Hello Flying Officer Kyle and Skafloc ,
    nice of you to answer me direkt of my first post. I will be attempt to answer you both:

    @ Flying Officer Kyle - Thank you for your answer. If you answer me in german I think I had can possible saw how bad my english is really? But perhaps your german ist much better as my old school english? Your idear that you will become a Graf Zeppelin model from "hawk" and we can use it both to build a WW.I Zeppelin reads well for me.
    Let us do it so as you have become your Graf Zeppelin model. But I don´t know whitch war zeppelin you would build? "Clipper1801", your zeppelin expert has give me an internet aderess where a 1915 zeppelin from the german P type is depictet. It is a nice zeppelin but I will have one who has a MG at the stern as the german "high climber" zeppelin ot the type r. Perhaps it will be only a scale of ca. 1:200. But this will be enough for me. The main-problem im my opinion will be to become a good plan of a type r zeppelin. Who can or better who will give us such a plane? Ok we will see Rob. I have notice your name for our projekt. Thank you

    @ Skafloc - Hello, the problem is I have looked yesterday afternoon, after I read your post in my computer to search it for a long time, but I don´t had find it again, sorry.
    But I where very lucky as I look in the constuction plans whitch I become from "Climber1801". In this construcktion plan can we see a drawing of the upper side of the type P. In this plan there are two variants of bomb bays. The first zeppelin of the Type P was from the german navy on side 5 and has 16 little bomb bays in two middel rows, perhaps only one bomb bay for one zepelin bomb? But there are other drawings on side 8 they are displayed only four bomb bay with a little bay for each of this bomb bays. Sorry but I don´t can give you this drawings, because they are not my own. But I think if you ask "Clipper 1801" he give you the same infos as me and then can you get this infos and pictures yourself.

    So I hope my english answers will be helpful?

    Have all you a nice day
    Brakiss

  28. #28

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    Right Rufus.
    I already have one of Clipper's Zeps.
    The one I'm going to make will be a generic one rather than any specific type. I will use it for any period not covered by my Clipper model. It will be interesting to work together and seee what we can make of these airships.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    The chaps could always fly it as a card, but we would have an odd situation where the German side were doing a different scenario being the Zep crew. not so good for them I suspect.
    Rob.
    You could try a 2-D Zep. Here is a link to my 'how to':

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...minimal-outlay

  30. #30

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    We actually did eventually fly the mission last year Wayne, and some of us used Clippers Zep, the rest used cards or clever 3D renditions of a Zep.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  31. #31

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    There are are a number of problems with Zeps in a game.

    1) They're too darn big. I bought some 1/200 Shapeways just to use with the Clipper 1/214 Zep, and that's what I'd recommend for Zep games. WGF ground scale is about 1/1200, so they're still 6 times too big. If you enlarge cards to the size of A4 paper, and increase base size for the aircraft to A4 size too, it's only about 30% too big. Naturally increase gun range by a factor of 4-5 too. You don't play this kind of game on a table, but a floor.

    2) They're creampuffs. One old obsolete fighter that gets near a Zep (that's the difficult bit at night) if armed with incendiary rounds is a fair fight. In general, only things like BE2s and FK8s, capable of stooging around at night for an hour at high altitude and so stable they could land safely in darkness were useful. Exactly one aircraft was ever shot down by a Zep - an FE2b.

    To make a game that remotely resembles reality, while remaining enjoyable to play, is tricky. I think it's worth it though, for the visual effect.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    ...

    I think it's worth it though, for the visual effect.
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    What she said!
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  33. #33

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    And that sure is some visual effect Mike.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    And that sure is some visual effect Mike.
    Rob.
    The image is from a player at BottosCon 2014, Troy Chard, who was kind enough to provide it. He was pretty impressed, and took what I think is a good publicity shot for my venue.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    The image is from a player at BottosCon 2014, Troy Chard, who was kind enough to provide it. He was pretty impressed, and took what I think is a good publicity shot for my venue.
    It certainly is Mike.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  36. #36

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    I will always state that Zeps in a game of WGF may work as static objects in 1:144 scale, just printed on a mat and it is just fine for game purposes; I checked that with my group.


    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  37. #37

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    Great looking play mat, Andy... and I love the sign!

    "12.09.2014 The Wives Strike Back"

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    I will always state that Zeps in a game of WGF may work as static objects in 1:144 scale, just printed on a mat and it is just fine for game purposes; I checked that with my group.


    This original post of Andy's was the inspiration for my 2-D Zep 'how-to' - I hope I gave him due credit in my thread!

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    I will always state that Zeps in a game of WGF may work as static objects in 1:144 scale, just printed on a mat and it is just fine for game purposes; I checked that with my group.


    This original post of Andy's was the inspiration for my 2-D Zep 'how-to' - I hope I gave him due credit in my thread!

  40. #40

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    I have been updating graphics for another project on the Forum, but thought I'd post these here for comments.

    Crew Management for a P-Type Zeppelin:
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    Damage Tracking Card for fire, engines and total damage:
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    Firing Arc Base for a P-Type Zeppelin:
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    Now, do we have a file on the Forum for the actual rules? I have a hard copy, but not a digital one.

    PS: Found some:

    Original files by Keegan [Lugburz], used at Origins 2011:
    Airship Attack! — Presenting the LZ41 (L-11) (Posted in 2011, so no images remain attached. The above images I've posted are derived from these rules, I think.)
    Downloads - WWI Game Aides - Zeppelin Gas Cell Tokens
    Downloads - WWI Game Aides - FOTG Crew / Engine / Wound Tokens
    Downloads - WWI House Rules - Zeppelin Movement Template in Color

    Things by Neil [Skafloc] for Doncaster appearances:
    Downloads - WWI Game Aides - L45 Rules
    Downloads - WWI Game Aides - LZ85 (L45) Zeppelin (Control Card for above rules)

    Downloads - WWI Game Aides - Zeppelin L11 Control Board (There are five pages in this document, including rules, markers and a turn template. Please read all of it.)

    I also finally found my original short cheat-sheet rules for running Convention appearances of the Zeppelin. Somewhat like the above Origin files...
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 09-21-2022 at 13:49.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59



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