Here's my inserted joke - you could try implantsOriginally Posted by tusekine
Here's my inserted joke - you could try implants
The Free French received and flew P-40s from the U.S. in north africa in 1942 and possibly even 1943. I built a model off a picture of a Free French pilot standing next to his P-40F when I was younger. Gotta head off to work now, but don't forget the Free French Forces fighting with the Allies.You're absolutely right, monse.
The French used the P-36 Hawk (and to good use) during the Battle of France. The P-40 never arrived on time.
But in my solo campaign, 30 or so arrived on time and my pilot will fly one against the German. Hi French friends call his plane "le nez rouge" and that's how it went.
BTW, I would LOVE to get a P-36 (Hawk A75) in this game! Ares...are you hearing this?????
The P-36 is a great way to get every ragtag minor air force that fought on the Allied side into the game. Even the Americans had a couple P-36s present on December 7th, 1941. Not that any P-36s should be issued officially to the American forces for the game. It is one of those planes that I hope they get around to eventually. But not before the Corsair, Oscar, Hellcat, Lightning, George, Spit MK 5, 190A, Betty, JU-88, and torpedo planes, specifically, Avenger, Kate, Sparviero, and Swordfish.
Oh! I would really like to see a B-24 Liberator at some point as well!
Then you should buy lots of B-17s and Lancs when they come out. lol
Lol, does three of each count? I think that will be 300 plus dollars easily, probably closer to 500. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is.
Daniel, I think 8th Army has more than three B-17... There is a note about 1000+ B-17+B-24 on Wiki
You need to find another 100 people to join your squadron
That I do!!!!! Its plausible if the Heavies sell well we could see another series. However, poor sales will result in them being one-and-done I would think. With the mixed interest expressed here on the boards, sadly, I think I will need to be complacent with the Fortresses and Lancs! They are a niche product in a dogfighting game, and I recognize there are plenty of players solely interested in dogfighting and nothing else.
Personally, I think running more than three bombers at a time will be very cumbersome. With 10 gun positions to keep track of per B-17, I can understand some of my fellow poster's concerns. My buddy Jeff will buy three of each as well and we will have six between us of each sculpt, that is more than sufficient for any scenario I would care to manage/play.
maybe I should see if Ares would loan me 1000 B-17s and hundreds of P-51s/109s/190s to do a huge floor game at Origins. lol
Yes! Yes! In a landlease program and we need you to repass a few dozens to Portugal! We need them to face the threat of... of.... ah.... Them!!
Now there is an interesting scenario... dogfights between B-17s!
No! No! I need them all! Dozens of B-17s and dozens of P-51s/109s/190s to... to... fight them!
You jest... but that would be epic! And it wouldn't have to be that big... but what about a combat box of B-17s (12) with a USAAF fighter squadron as escort (up to 25 P-51s!) and a couple squadrons of 109s/190s to take them on? That, although large, could be managed with multiple referees. Hell, I'd find a way to get out to Origins to help run that awesomeness.
By the way, here's a link to a US War Dept document containing the mid-war (Dec 1943) TO&E for a USAAF fighter (single-engine) squadron: http://www.militaryresearch.org/1-27%2022Dec43.pdf
Aahh, that's good too... but B-17 dogfights is where it is at! lol
The problem would be getting enough players for a game that size
Really! Keith! A B-17 is an excellent dogfighter, they just don't let her!!
As to enough players to that game... I would kill to be able to be there. One side or another.
Agreed... that's always an issue. But if each player flew a pair of wingmen, and the bombers flew in formation, the numbers drop much closer to the realm of possibility. We'd be looking at 2-3 players for the B-17s (it could probably be done by 1, but that's a lot of guns), 8-12 players for the P-51s, and maybe double that for the Luftwaffe. By my count, we could get it done with fewer than 40 players... and maybe as few as 25-30.The problem would be getting enough players for a game that size
Way back in the dark ages, I participated in a monstrously-large Mustangs & Messerschmits game... I think it was one of the times Origins rolled through LA (1986?). We must have had close to 40 players for that.
Our largest WGF game at Origins has been 24 players.
It should have been this guy and I'm not taking it back
and I'm already oficialy lobbying for a Lavochkin La-7 for the series 7
That's a nice looking bird as well!It should have been this guy and I'm not taking it back
A La-7 would be a welcome addition.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Oh I like that Tomahawk! I would not be opposed to that when they eventually reprint Series III. The only reason I would have to argue against it in the initial release, is the Soviets already received lend-lease love in the prior set, in the form of the Hurricane.
Now as far as a La-7 goes, can I say, yes please and thank you? Now, I wouldn't want it at the expense of pushing the Corsair back, but I wouldn't mind it being the other allied plane in series VII.
Regarding the huge B-17 brawl at origins, it would give me a reason to show up!!! It is a long trip from Idaho, but once of these years, our group will make its way out there.
that Hurrican was wrong ... just wrong
Didn't the Ausies have Hurricanes?
I did re-painted the French P-40 as a Soviet ace
hey! I want my F4U-Corsair too! I'll be sad as hell if I don't get a Corsair and a LA-7 as allied planes for the next series!
I'll let Ares decide about the 2 Axis planes, just to show how open-minded I am
A torpedo's only possible advantage over a bomb is: Hitting below the waterline means water will come in through the hole. That said: It's possible for bombs to inflict sub-waterline damage as well, via "water-hammer" effect. It's why the bombs Mitchell and Co dropped on _Ostfriesland_ didn't have to hit directly to inflict damage -- the shockwaves from the near-hits sprung the hull plates below the waterline, allowing water in.
Torpedoes had many advantages that bombs didn't have and just when reliable self-propelled explosives appeared torpedoes lost some of their advanatages.
Torpedoes (dropped from planes) would hit a ship more often, below waterline (flooding the ship and reducing its speed), with more explosive capability, and a better penetration ratio than bombs. During the first half of the war, the low flying torpedo bomber were more protected from bigger AA guns and a well positioned squadron would hit a ship repeatedly.
The torpedo bomber wouldn't even had to be fast. See the Swordfish example.
So saying that a torpedo had (possibly) only one advantage is probably reaching too much.
Only my theory:
I think the series 6 wilk be focused on Pacific (and Bf.109 is a little bonus), so, accordings to Herr Oberst's "battle theory", the next one would be focused on a battle from Europe. There were BoB or Malta, so we can expect something like Eastern Front, Africa, Normandy, Sicily. May be, there will be even forgotten projects one day (may be series 15 or 16
La-7...ahhhhh, my FAVORITE WWII Russian fighter!It should have been this guy and I'm not taking it back
and I'm already oficialy lobbying for a Lavochkin La-7 for the series 7
I like your choice for the P-40, but then again, I came to the same conclussion myself some time ago...
Did someone say B-17s?!?
I only have 6 of them...
hmm that russian P40 looks like it could be converted from the french one.. has anyone done it? would love to see pics of such a project
Remembering of course that the Ostfeiesland trials were, like all WETs, very carefully stage managed to ensure that the trials sponsor's desired result actually happened. I don't have the trial reports to hand any more but I suspect that a single shot from a .303 or even the attentions of a hand drill would have been enough to sink the Ostfrieslandif you'd been prepared to wait a while.
The torpedo's "only possible advantage" is actually massively significant. To achieve the so called "water hammer" effect requires the charge to detonate in very close proximity (a few feet) to the hull and even then when casing breakup losses are taken into account the spread of structural damage can be pretty limited; often entirely within the ability of a damage control team to deal with. Your typical contact torpedo hit is going to blow a 10 metre hole in the ship and cause more widespread damage making the hull non watertight over another 5-10 metres or so. Thats 2-3 main watertight compartments. And if you've run a magnetically fused torpedo under the hull at a standoff of a few metres you could be breaking equipment over double those distances and in smaller ships (even up to light cruiser size) you could be breaking the ships back and sinking it in a single shot.
The parallel today is the anti ship missile and the torpedo. If you want to mission kill a ship then an ASM is a good bet, but unless you hit something inside the ship that is extremely energetic the chances of causing a sinking are low. If you want to really put a ship out of the fight permanently a torpedo is the way to go.
Just a note for the record... when they talked about Thousand Plane Raids, that was including the fighter escorts and other support aircraft like anybody strafing the pesky flak-dealers. Propaganda stunt, not really for real effect--think about how much more productive to the war effort it could have been to go after multiple railyards, industrial complexes etc., than just bombing one city into rubble with the first half and then the rubble into gravel on the last.
And don't even wind me up about that murderous maniac Bomber Harris... I'd rather have dropped HIM out of a bomb-bay than boomstuff.
[QUOTE=Gallo Rojo;266888]that Hurrican was wrong ... just wrong
Didn't the Ausies have Hurricanes?
Only used in the Desert for PRU units, none in Australia. a good book on the suject is Messerschmitt Roulette by Wg Cdr G. Morley-Mower (1993) about No 451 Sqn RAAF.
Not so. Operation Mellenium (the bombing of Cologne) for example comprised over 1000 bombers with an additional 113 aircrfat on support missions.Just a note for the record... when they talked about Thousand Plane Raids, that was including the fighter escorts and other support aircraft like anybody strafing the pesky flak-dealers.
Dangerous ground. I suggest you stay off it. Glass houses and all that.And don't even wind me up about that murderous maniac Bomber Harris... I'd rather have dropped HIM out of a bomb-bay than boomstuff.
Not quite good sirOnly my theory:
I think the series 6 will be focused on Pacific (and Bf.109 is a little bonus), so, according to Herr Oberst's "battle theory", the next one would be focused on a battle from Europe. There were BoB or Malta, so we can expect something like Eastern Front, Africa, Normandy, Sicily. May be, there will be even forgotten projects one day (may be series 15 or 16
Well hopefully, since the European front received some love this set in the Me-109K and P-47D, which was primarily used in Europe(though it saw action with the 348th out of Australia in 1943, and elsewhere in the Pacific later on), the next set has a Corsair and a Japanese N1K-J "George" to offset it. We are getting towards the end of new mid/late war Japanese planes with name recognition to introduce into the game. Granted an improved A6M5 "Zeke/Zero" is very plausible and likely at some point as well. I am also aware of and not forgetting the "Nick", "Jack", and Tojo and the early war "Claude", "Oscar", and "Nate". I doubt they would counter the Corsair with an early war Japanese plane. Though an "Oscar" is a must at some point. An Oscar and P-39 Aircobra would be my preferred pairing. Then you could do a "Nick" with a P-38 Lightning in another series. To cover it, yes, the "Sam" (all 8 ever built) is waiting in the wings as well, though I would prefer not to see it until many other Japanese fighters are released first.
I think a smart way to keep customers happy is with each 4 plane series, release two planes that correspond to two major themes. For example, two planes from Midway and two planes from the Eastern Front. The next set, have two planes from Guadalcanal and two from BoB. They could do that and help keep more customers happy, since not everybody buys WGS for every theater. I know personally I buy them all. However, if I didn't and had to wait two years for each and every PTO addition to the game, I would be a little predisposed to focus on other games during the wait time, which could very well mean I don't have the funding to buy the new releases and lose interest all together.
Oh and Keith, look this guy up: Lt Col Francis S. "Gabby" Gabreski, he was the leading ace of the 8th Air Force and should be one of the three P-47 pilots selected, at least in my opinion. Pass this on to the powers that be if you would and agree after reading about him.
Sadly, his bubble top version is a lot cooler looking than his Razorback paint job. When I get more time, I will post the two for comparison.
Here is a cool interview with him from a few years back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF3YR-1ucIU
one of my suggestions to them was to focus all "Series" release on the Western ETO and PTO. Then release a "special" on the other minor theaters (Eastern front, Med, etc.) one to two times a year... mainly reusing the same planes found in the Series releases where possible with new planes limited to one or two per theater per year.
That would ensure we get the most planes for the very popular parts of the war, while still catering to the niche players out there (who also play the main stream battles).
See the P-47 thread in the WGS General section
See the P-47 thread in the WGS General section
OH BOY!! I hadn't seen those yet! They will have to wait until after work, but here I come!!
OK, you got me. This sounds much better and I like idea of supporting minor theatres too.
May be you should change your title from "Commanding Officer" to "The one who knows"
I don't either, any more -- but I read them; and to be frank, the only non-realistic elements of the tests were the obvious ones: No return fire (oh, by the way: This is long before surface ships turned into floating FlAK circuses -- one wonders just how useful the secondaries and tertiaries would have been), and no attempts at damage control.
But then, the admirals were claiming it was impossible for bombs to sink a ship *at all* -- and were still claiming same right up to where the German BB slid beneath the waves.
Uh-huh -- *IF* the torpedo hits; and, as has been copiously noted here: US torps didn't. (Forget about capturing that Zero in the Aleutians -- my kingdom for the US capturing a Long Lance or two, and getting access to a torpedo which [CENSORED] worked properly.)
On the other hand: Kenney and his merry mass of maniacs could -- and did, repeatedly -- put bombs which *did* work on or near-enough-to the targets to do far more harm to the Japanese than torps ever managed. You want "parallels", try this on for size: The attack profile for a 5th AF attack bird is essentially identical to that of a modern antiship cruise missile -- come in low-and-fast, then pop up and unleash the beast (OK, to be strictly accurate, the 5th AF birds did it the other-way around -- unleash the load, *then* pop up).
"Mission kill" is enough -- esp. if one's foe has sucktagonal dam-con. (Like the Japanese did -- ever wondered why they accounted US CVs sunk multiple times? The Japanese assumed there was no way "gaijin" could have better dam-con; thus "if we would have needed to scuttle that ship, clearly so did they; therefore, they did"; "NNNNN -- sorry Hans, wrong guess; ya wanna try for Double Jeopardy where the scores can *really* change?")
Of which force, over 100 never made it to the target due to various mechanical failures -- in order to pull off the op, the British were pulling out acft. (and crew) from training facilities and scrapyards. More like "Operation Nine-Hundred with 10% VAT".... ;)
I would still like to see a Corsair sooner rather than later, and a Mosquito or three would be nice.....
Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!
Given track history of releases to date, I admire your optimism!
The game needs a Mossie for sure. What would a logical Axis counter be? I can't think of one off the top of my head, especially with Me-110 already out.
Would love a Ju88.
Yep, the Ju88 is a fighter, fighter-bomber, nightfighter, recce bird; just like the DH98 Mosquito!
Last edited by Baldrick62; 01-18-2014 at 14:15.
Which is why the B17F-derived YB40 escort 'fighter' was such a success!A B-17 is an excellent dogfighter, they just don't let her!!
Last edited by Baldrick62; 01-18-2014 at 14:19.
Except that this is a P40B/C Tomahawk rather than a P40E/F Kittyhawk which was the released mini.It should have been this guy and I'm not taking it back
I don't know... Clive Caldwell might have been a pretty good choice. Leading Australian ace with 20+ kills in a P-40...It should have been this guy and I'm not taking it back
and I'm already oficialy lobbying for a Lavochkin La-7 for the series 7
Therein lies the problem -- the Axis never managed to develop a "counter" for the Mosquito (the Me-262 only barely qualifies, and Tank's Ta-154 "clone" never saw full production; closest we can get is the "stripper" model Heinkel He-219 "Uhu").
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