Subscription Poll

[Nightbomber]

Still the same text. I can not see the main site after I log in. No matter which browser I use. Arghhh!

Nightbomber, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

[Thomatchef]

Still the same text. I can not see the main site after I log in. No matter which browser I use. Arghhh!

Nightbomber, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Same problem here...

[Willi Von Klugermann]

I'm in. I think I'll do a yearly.

Willi


Payment just sent via PP. Wasn't able to post a note Keith.

[Willi Von Klugermann]

I'm able to post but no longer have access to the Home page.

[Oberst Hajj]

Guys try the home page again now.

[Willi Von Klugermann]

Home page is accessible. Looks like I'm still missing avatar and rank.

[Oberst Hajj]

Chris, I just sorted those for you.

[Nightbomber]

Herr Oberst
everything in order here now!
Access granted finally.
What a relief!

[Willi Von Klugermann]

Chris, I just sorted those for you.

Can't seem to get the avatar on the posts. Profile settings have it listed and it appears on the home page.

[Oberst Hajj]

Chris, you are a Silver member. Custom Avatars are reserved for Gold members.

[Willi Von Klugermann]

Chris, you are a Silver member. Custom Avatars are reserved for Gold members.

Got it.

[Blauer Baron]

Dear Keith / Col.Hajj
I wish you strength, the volume of this all must be hard! Its like being under fire in the trenches! Well of course no, that was terrible beyond all belief. But anyway...put on your tin hat old chap and keep dodging the bullets! Don't surrender

[grumpybear]

Having read all the posts, and mulled over the need for the Oberst to know that he has a steady income to run the site for a long term change over to be viable, I think that a sliding scale of membership, as suggested elsewhere, is the way forward.Nevertheless I do not like the idea that it will be an obvious one to the members, who is contributing the most. Having extra posting rights may flag up who is contributing the most unless it is handled very subtly.
Those of us who can afford a bit more can support the other members until such a time that their finances recover. After all we have done the same sort of thing for single members or their dependents in times of need. Could we not extend it to other members?
I for one am in whilst soever I can provide the money to help keep the Drome afloat. All I ask is that no big deal is published to show who is and who is not contributing.We do not want a segregated community to arise from this.
Rob.

I agree

[Blackronin]

I agree with Rob and Darell.
I contribute to maintain the Drome healthy any time but I see with some reserve the idea of some having an avatar and some having not, some having a lot of megas to upload things and some not. And some people here that contribute and have contributed a lot to the Drome and can not or for some good reason will not have a paid account should not have less access. I don't mind that Keith gives them a gold account and I really don't need to know who pays and who pays not.
This is surely a tight and honest community and that is exactly what keeps it afloat and healthy.
I for myself feel a bit sad for seeing people that are outstanding here losing their beloved avatar and I, just because I have at the moment the possibility of offering $5/month keeping mine.
Can we think this thing a little further?

[Marechallannes]

I think you wrote (and quoted) this with the best intentions comrades, but please do not rush into something and make the mistake to equalize no subscription = no money.



This change was made within a week and there are many things to clarify.

Just one example: Don (LGKR) lost his custom Avatar, too.

[Nightbomber]

I can only applause your statements Quim, Rob and Darell. All for one and one for all.

[Nightbomber]

I think you wrote (and quoted) this with the best intentions comrades, but please do not rush into something and make the mistake to equalize no subscription = no money.



This change was made within a week and there are many things to clarify.

Just one example: Don (LGKR) lost his custom Avatar, too.

Asolutely Sven. I fully understand that.

[wargamer]

Declined. Not going to participate in subscriptions. Annual fund raisers maybe. As it is, not that much participation is coming from me, and most of the general discussions is advertising this or that; or a discussion on something I am not much interested in - although it has not gone as bad as the SoG board with the tank threads.

[tikkifriend]

The Drome neeeds the money and I need the Drome to continue my enjoyment of WoW so theres no contest. For the price of a half decent bottle of wine a month I'm in .

[Smitch]

Declined. Not going to participate in subscriptions. Annual fund raisers maybe. As it is, not that much participation is coming from me, and most of the general discussions is advertising this or that; or a discussion on something I am not much interested in - although it has not gone as bad as the SoG board with the tank threads.

I too have decided to decline. I've only recently joined the Aerodrome so I don't have all that much invested in it, and my general policy is not to pay for internet sites. I will still enjoy the game, of course, but I will miss reading my friends' blogs.

[Doug]

The Drome neeeds the money and I need the Drome to continue my enjoyment of WoW so theres no contest. For the price of a half decent bottle of wine a month I'm in .

I agree could not of said it better myself!

[MoonSylver]

I too have decided to decline. I've only recently joined the Aerodrome so I don't have all that much invested in it, and my general policy is not to pay for internet sites. I will still enjoy the game, of course, but I will miss reading my friends' blogs.

Very sad, but I understand & respect your decision. I never have before, but the site means so much to me that I'm more than willing. I'm starting to see a down side now to all of this, as Sven, Scott, etc, choose not to subscribe & are denied benefits of the 'Drome, while those who choose to may have raised enough money to keep the site going already. This makes me sad, as I was hoping that through buying a membership I could help others continue to enjoy most of the benefits of the site, if not all.

I can understand getting extra benefit of some sort for memberships, otherwise there is little enticement to buy them (other than generosity), but I'm starting to feel like members that don't buy one are getting penalized, which I know isn't the intent, & none of us want to see happen. Honestly, I didn't contribute to get something, I did it because I was hoping to keep things the same for all of us to enjoy.

[Marechallannes]

Don't worry Rob.

The Aerodrome will not loose my/our support, but some decisions need their time.

I'm waiting for my ordered WW II series 5 planes, maybe the miniatures change my view on this procedure a little bit.

[Thomatchef]

Honestly, I didn't contribute to get something, I did it because I was hoping to keep things the same for all of us to enjoy.

The same here, but things have changed to much and its making me feel bad about my contribution. Limiting users by different accounts does not work and its limiting the potential that this site has. Difference in memebership should give benefits to the higher paying but not limit the others as it is now. If someone who adds and gives a lot to this site decides not to pay (whatever the reason) he should not be limited in the way he contributes.

In general I feel that a lot of the recent changes and decision have been made rather hastily.

[Burt]

Going on the results of the poll out of our total membership of 2682 and impressive 1.6% have voted to pay subscriptions although that is hardly surprising when more than half of our supposed members have never posted on the Aerodrome

[Dom S]

A significant chunk of the "membership" will be long-dormant accounts for starters, so the total number of people registered is a pretty meaningless figure to be honest. Additionally there are doubtless people who have or will sign up for a paid sub, but without voting on, or possibly even having seen, the poll, so your 1.6% is almost certainly taking an artificially low figure as a percentage of an artificially high one. [I'd be surprised if it ends up at more than 10% of the active membership, but frankly that ought to be ample.]

I do agree with others that the sheer speed of the changes may well have put some people's noses out of joint, though, especially the people who have been most active in the past, who have in effect been presented with an immediate "pay or stop contributing" as they're already way past the "free" memory allocation. More warning, and/or investigation into finding a way to accommodate "legacy" storage to prevent people's past contribution effectively immediately stopping them from posting *anything* new would probably have been a plan.

Dom.

[Oberst Hajj]

I think you wrote (and quoted) this with the best intentions comrades, but please do not rush into something and make the mistake to equalize no subscription = no money.



This change was made within a week and there are many things to clarify.

Just one example: Don (LGKR) lost his custom Avatar, too.

I've restored LGKR avatar and I agree that his contributions to the site should continue to be recoginized.

I too have decided to decline. I've only recently joined the Aerodrome so I don't have all that much invested in it, and my general policy is not to pay for internet sites. I will still enjoy the game, of course, but I will miss reading my friends' blogs.

The site is still 100% free. You care still able to join discussions, download files, upload files, read blogs, etc. The only thing you are now not able to do is store excessive amounts of images and PMs.

The same here, but things have changed to much and its making me feel bad about my contribution. Limiting users by different accounts does not work and its limiting the potential that this site has. Difference in memebership should give benefits to the higher paying but not limit the others as it is now. If someone who adds and gives a lot to this site decides not to pay (whatever the reason) he should not be limited in the way he contributes.

In general I feel that a lot of the recent changes and decision have been made rather hastily.

You can't have higher benefits for paying members and no limits for non paying members, it's one or the other. User that contribute good content to the site can continue to contribute just as they have in the past. The only real limitation put on the memberships is how many PMs you can keep and how many photos you can upload. Both of these can be managed. For the PMs, simply clean out your Inbox and Sent Folder and you can send as many PMs as you like. If you have PMs you want to save, copy them to your local hard drive. For images, as much as I personally would like to keep them hosted here on the site, it's not financially feasible to allow everyone unlimited storage space. Only upload the images you need to your albums and if you are running low on storage, you might need to look at other hosting sites and link the images here.

I’m sorry to hear that you are feeling bad about your contribution. You are of course free to cancel it at anytime. But I should point out, it’s everyone’s contributions that are going to keep this site up and running. I’ve been happy to give lots of my personal time to building and running this site over the last 4 years. I’m not able or willing to give that time and foot the bills that come with running a site of this magnitude.

A significant chunk of the "membership" will be long-dormant accounts for starters, so the total number of people registered is a pretty meaningless figure to be honest. Additionally there are doubtless people who have or will sign up for a paid sub, but without voting on, or possibly even having seen, the poll, so your 1.6% is almost certainly taking an artificially low figure as a percentage of an artificially high one. [I'd be surprised if it ends up at more than 10% of the active membership, but frankly that ought to be ample.]

I do agree with others that the sheer speed of the changes may well have put some people's noses out of joint, though, especially the people who have been most active in the past, who have in effect been presented with an immediate "pay or stop contributing" as they're already way past the "free" memory allocation. More warning, and/or investigation into finding a way to accommodate "legacy" storage to prevent people's past contribution effectively immediately stopping them from posting *anything* new would probably have been a plan.

Dom.

While the changes might seem fast to some of you, there has been a lot of discussion that you guys have not seen. I’ve already upgraded the hosting account the site is on twice. We are now just at a point where some real changes have to be made in order for the site to continue. And yes, many people had already used up the basic allowances in storage when this change was made. But I’ve only had one person contact me about difficulties this has caused and I have helped that person sort out the issues.

As for giving more notice or time for each user to sort out their storage issues, I could have done that. But how much time should I give? A week might be good for some, a month for others and even longer than that for a lot. With a group this large and diverse, not everyone is going to be happy no matter what I do and I felt the best way to get people to be aware of the issues and to get them to act on them was to place those issue squarely under their nose. As you accurately pointed out, very few of the users even know about this thread. Getting information to everyone on the site is problematic at best.

[Oberst Hajj]

With all of the above said, I’m happy to say that our core members have risen to the occasion and funding for the site has been better than I expected. I am now looking at an even better hosting solution that will not only make the site more stable and faster, but also allow me to increase the limits set on each of the 3 different membership levels. This will not be immediate, as there is a lot involved in moving a site like this to a completely new host.

[Attila57]

Keith,

I can add also avatar out Basic list. I can access to the entire collection of Avatar. The unique forbidden operation is custom avatar. I add an Ansaldo A1 Balilla from WW1 Entente list without problem as a test. I'll remove it during this week (of you wish remove it before).

Perhaps there's an issue with the profile check.

Attilio

[Nightbomber]

Happy to hear that, Herr Oberst.
In fact I have been thinking quite often how it is possible to run such contents-rich site free of any charge, so tried to support the site in the past as well and I am a proud owner of a medal that shows that in a way.
Saying thanks for all I got here and mostly - what people I met and great time I had so far - being a (well, core) member is simply not enough.
So I'm happy to support this good will enterprise here, now and possibly in the future. But I also understand those who think differently or just do not feel like paying. No one should be "labeled" a better/worse, more/less competent user.
everybody.
Andy.

[Smitch]

The site is still 100% free. You care still able to join discussions, download files, upload files, read blogs, etc. The only thing you are now not able to do is store excessive amounts of images and PMs.

I am unable to read blogs. I get a message saying I do not have permission to access the page.

[Willi Von Klugermann]

With all of the above said, I’m happy to say that our core members have risen to the occasion and funding for the site has been better than I expected. I am now looking at an even better hosting solution that will not only make the site more stable and faster, but also allow me to increase the limits set on each of the 3 different membership levels. This will not be immediate, as there is a lot involved in moving a site like this to a completely new host.

Just let me know when Willi and his 1903 can come back.

[Doug]

Over the last 4 years I have notice many changes in this sight, some of them small some of them large. What I joined was a forum of like minded gamers but for me this has developed into a club which I enjoy being part of. I am also a member of other clubs for which I pay membership fee's. As I have said before I have made many good friends on this sight from all over the world which I would have never got the chance to do so otherwise. So I am more than willing to pay (donate) for being a member of this club.

[Doug]

One other thing which I know will cause me lots of flak, is that those who have been on the sight for a year or more with zero postings on the sight should be deleted. If they do not want to participate in the threads why did they join in the 1st place? So if they are not participating why keep them on? Before you shart shelling me I did say those with 0 posts over several years.

[Dom S]

Many people simply take a more "passive" role while still enjoying the community - I don't think we ought to judge them for that. (Come to think of it, my regular oppo when I'm actually gaming is a "lurker" on several forums, and follows them with interest, but doesn't feel the need to pipe up as it were.) I don't see that there's anything wrong with that. Additionally they're probably not using any significant site resources anyway, so what does deleting them achieve?

[Thomatchef]

You can't have higher benefits for paying members and no limits for non paying members, it's one or the other. User that contribute good content to the site can continue to contribute just as they have in the past. The only real limitation put on the memberships is how many PMs you can keep and how many photos you can upload. Both of these can be managed. For the PMs, simply clean out your Inbox and Sent Folder and you can send as many PMs as you like. If you have PMs you want to save, copy them to your local hard drive. For images, as much as I personally would like to keep them hosted here on the site, it's not financially feasible to allow everyone unlimited storage space. Only upload the images you need to your albums and if you are running low on storage, you might need to look at other hosting sites and link the images here.

I’m sorry to hear that you are feeling bad about your contribution. You are of course free to cancel it at anytime. But I should point out, it’s everyone’s contributions that are going to keep this site up and running. I’ve been happy to give lots of my personal time to building and running this site over the last 4 years. I’m not able or willing to give that time and foot the bills that come with running a site of this magnitude.



While the changes might seem fast to some of you, there has been a lot of discussion that you guys have not seen. I’ve already upgraded the hosting account the site is on twice. We are now just at a point where some real changes have to be made in order for the site to continue. And yes, many people had already used up the basic allowances in storage when this change was made. But I’ve only had one person contact me about difficulties this has caused and I have helped that person sort out the issues.

As for giving more notice or time for each user to sort out their storage issues, I could have done that. But how much time should I give? A week might be good for some, a month for others and even longer than that for a lot. With a group this large and diverse, not everyone is going to be happy no matter what I do and I felt the best way to get people to be aware of the issues and to get them to act on them was to place those issue squarely under their nose. As you accurately pointed out, very few of the users even know about this thread. Getting information to everyone on the site is problematic at best.

It seems that my poor choice of words might have hurt your feelings. My apologies as this was not my intention to do so. My native languege isn't english and in order to avoid writing errors I chose some wrong words that incorrectly described my feelings. I know this site is your baby, and I can only try to imagine the huge amount of work you are putting into it. But know that I appreciate every single second you'are working on it. Keeping this baby in the air desired for its dad to take appropriate measures and you have done so!


First of all I not going to cancel my subscription as I need this place. I like it here so much that I would hate to see it go. I'm talking about this place and its members against my wife as if it is a clubhouse a few blocks away. I would like to meet and know you all in person as I feel their are lots of great personalities arround.
I don't contribute much post and content wise but I do read a lot and check nearly every hour if some intresting posts have been made. This way it looks as if I might be an outsider but I follow every movement! I made my subscription with the financial means now available to me and hope it is enough to keep this site in the air! I haven't contributed to the site before but tried supporting via ordering with the AA store (not shure if that helped). For some strange reasons I hesitated a lot about loose donations. The subscription system gave me a more organized way of donating so I was actually happy it was set up. I would have been more than happy with a small recognition under my nickname for example rather than the different options available now but thats me and I have no idea about others. This way the look of the forum wouldn't have changed so much. It might sound stupid but I got so used to the avatars used by people and seeing them all disapear changed the look drasticly. I think that we or at least I are resisting to change. Defenitly when we are so used to a certain way of things. In the last week a lot has changed and thats whats causing me to have mixed feelings. But giving it time will eventually solve this.

I hope this clarifies it a bit and doesn't look to foolish or stupid. It might have made some spelling errors however but wanted to avoid the same happening again. I felt really bad and couldn't even sleep so had to get back up and write this.

Again my apologies and thank you for al the hard work!

[wjw]

I've been a member for two years, but have posted very little. Reading new posts has become a daily ritual. Information, tips and suggestions have been very helpful. May my subscription help the Dome continue and thrive.

[Pseudotheist]

With all of the above said, I’m happy to say that our core members have risen to the occasion and funding for the site has been better than I expected. I am now looking at an even better hosting solution that will not only make the site more stable and faster, but also allow me to increase the limits set on each of the 3 different membership levels.

Have you made any progress on solutions that allow our most prolific members (really the ones that have made the site worth supporting) to continue to grow their contributions without requiring a purchased membership? I intend to buy in a membership at some level (though I won't need the benfits for a while), but I would like to see this issue satsfactorily addressed before I do.

And why don't I see this tread in the New Posts page?

[Oberst Hajj]

Keith,

I can add also avatar out Basic list. I can access to the entire collection of Avatar. The unique forbidden operation is custom avatar. I add an Ansaldo A1 Balilla from WW1 Entente list without problem as a test. I'll remove it during this week (of you wish remove it before).

Perhaps there's an issue with the profile check.

Attilio

Attilio,

I believe you have that option as you are also in another user group for your efforts to help with the File system. Contributions like those are to be recognized and rewarded. Over the next week or so I'll be looking for more ways of doing that.

I am unable to read blogs. I get a message saying I do not have permission to access the page.

Thanks for the heads up on this, I'll look into that.

One other thing which I know will cause me lots of flak, is that those who have been on the sight for a year or more with zero postings on the sight should be deleted. If they do not want to participate in the threads why did they join in the 1st place? So if they are not participating why keep them on? Before you shart shelling me I did say those with 0 posts over several years.

I actually did prune about 1300 users. They were all people who had signed up but had not posted a single post or logged in for over 365 days. As Dom pointed out, they really do not use up any resources, but I pruned them to cut down on some of the admin functions they cause and to prepare for the server move.

It seems that my poor choice of words might have hurt your feelings. My apologies as this was not my intention to do so. My native languege isn't english and in order to avoid writing errors I chose some wrong words that incorrectly described my feelings. I know this site is your baby, and I can only try to imagine the huge amount of work you are putting into it. But know that I appreciate every single second you'are working on it. Keeping this baby in the air desired for its dad to take appropriate measures and you have done so!

Thomas, no offense or hurt feelings here buddy When someone brings up a point that I think should be addressed to everyone one, I do it in response to the person that brought it up, but not directed at them. I apologize if it came across as being upset with you personally. I surely don't want you to lose any sleep over this site or me! We are all good wingman!

I was going to have both Silver Member and Gold Member text display under people's user names, but I thought that might be segregating people to much. My thoughts behind limiting the avatars was that every member can still have one, helping with identity and keep the site visually the same, but supporting members would have more options. Another way to give them perks with out taking away any content based items. I think over time those that "lost" avatars will select a new one from the base group and the look of the site will be restored.

Have you made any progress on solutions that allow our most prolific members (really the ones that have made the site worth supporting) to continue to grow their contributions without requiring a purchased membership? I intend to buy in a membership at some level (though I won't need the benfits for a while), but I would like to see this issue satsfactorily addressed before I do.

And why don't I see this tread in the New Posts page?

Not yet, as all limitations are based on user group. Besides creating a new group just for those that we "deem worthy", there is no real way of doing it. I'm also very hesitant to select people to receive special benefits while while other pay for those benefits. I'm fairly positive that once the move is made and everything is worked out, those members will not have issues continuing to add things to the site.

[Hunter]

I voted "YES". I see no problem with the ifferent levels of membership and the 'free' option as an alternative choice. It meets every financial concern, level of interest, and site support. Kudos to whomever thought this out.

[Lino22]

Keith there is just 24 people here who reached Reputation over 500. I am at 680 at the moment. Since i haven't payed i am left with 2MB of space to keep posting, with my avatar gone and with no access to Blogs. I am actually as low as at 0MB right now unless i delete the files i uploaded - and i don't want to do it at all, as that would be against the purpose of the site.

[Dom S]

Not yet, as all limitations are based on user group. Besides creating a new group just for those that we "deem worthy", there is no real way of doing it. I'm also very hesitant to select people to receive special benefits while while other pay for those benefits.

I'd have thought it reasonable to create such a group for the handful of users whose contributions already take up a significant chunk of their memory "allowance" as it were - simply make it clear that it's not a case of picking favourites, but a one-off occurrence to allow for the fact that they're hamstrung by contributions which they've *already* made prior to data limits being imposed - it's not a case of "deem worthy" but rather "don't want to force them to go on a deleting spree before they can post a single photo." It may well be that they have to "rein in" their profligacy from now on (since they'd be capped like everyone else from now on) but it means what they've already posted remains as an asset to the site, rather than having to be deleted if they want to do anything.

Dom.

[MoonSylver]

Happy to hear that, Herr Oberst.
In fact I have been thinking quite often how it is possible to run such contents-rich site free of any charge, so tried to support the site in the past as well and I am a proud owner of a medal that shows that in a way.
Saying thanks for all I got here and mostly - what people I met and great time I had so far - being a (well, core) member is simply not enough.
So I'm happy to support this good will enterprise here, now and possibly in the future. But I also understand those who think differently or just do not feel like paying. No one should be "labeled" a better/worse, more/less competent user.
everybody.
Andy.

All good points that can't be recognized enough.

I've been a member for two years, but have posted very little. Reading new posts has become a daily ritual. Information, tips and suggestions have been very helpful. May my subscription help the Dome continue and thrive.

You & me both! Hat's off to you my friend.

[Oberst Hajj]

Keith there is just 24 people here who reached Reputation over 500. I am at 680 at the moment. Since i haven't payed i am left with 2MB of space to keep posting, with my avatar gone and with no access to Blogs. I am actually as low as at 0MB right now unless i delete the files i uploaded - and i don't want to do it at all, as that would be against the purpose of the site.

I am sorry that the changes have currently placed you in a bind, I really am. But I don't see giving users with over 500 Rep points "free room and board" as it were as viable long term solution for several reasons. First, some users might see that as a sway to beat the system. Just get 500 Rep points and the higher membership benefits are free. Not only does that not help the site, it also degrades the Rep system. Another concern is that there is no automated way to handle that type of system. Someone would have to go in an manually change account settings based on Rep Points. Another area of the site we are tying to save on is man hours need to run this place (I'm sure you are aware of the Con Medal discussions).

I'm always open to hearing possible solutions, but I have to evaluate them a strictly administrative point of view. But please, keep post them as great ideas come from anywhere!

I'd have thought it reasonable to create such a group for the handful of users whose contributions already take up a significant chunk of their memory "allowance" as it were - simply make it clear that it's not a case of picking favourites, but a one-off occurrence to allow for the fact that they're hamstrung by contributions which they've *already* made prior to data limits being imposed - it's not a case of "deem worthy" but rather "don't want to force them to go on a deleting spree before they can post a single photo." It may well be that they have to "rein in" their profligacy from now on (since they'd be capped like everyone else from now on) but it means what they've already posted remains as an asset to the site, rather than having to be deleted if they want to do anything.

Dom.

Dom, who would be on your list of elevated members and what kind of bonus would they get over the other members? And this is by no means my personal view on this, but as the devils advocate, what do we say to new users to the site when they realize the people that use the most resources are the ones getting more with out paying for it?

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Keith there has to be a 'final' decision, otherwise this debate will go on for ever. You run the site, you administer it and quite frankly do all the work. That said a flat rate as you've put out is reasonable. You can't please all of the people all of the time....but by heavens you do a damn good job trying. (Not forgetting the gallant few who assist you).

[Dom S]

Dom, who would be on your list of elevated members

I've no idea to be honest - you have the data, I don't. I presume Skafloc would be on there, since he's already posted about deleting AARs etc. to get down to a "gold" data allowance even. Presumably there are a few others (mayeb Kyte, Clipper?), but as I've already said, basically those who have *already* used up data allowances that are effectively being retrospectively applied. Without knowing how many users this is, or how many new "user groups" would need creating to create something workable, I don't know if what I'm suggesting is even feasible, but it seems worth exploring.

and what kind of bonus would they get over the other members?

As per my previous, simply enough memory allowance to accommodate their existing stuff. They wouldn't be treated any differently in terms of future allowance, avatars, ranks or anything like that, but simply allowed enough extra storage to cover what they've *already* contributed.

And this is by no means my personal view on this, but as the devils advocate, what do we say to new users to the site when they realize the people that use the most resources are the ones getting more with out paying for it?

That they're not *getting* more at all, but rather they'd already posted a lot before anyone had limits or was paying for it, and that since subscriptions were introduced, they're restricted in the same way as everyone else. As I say, I don't know how many people are involved, and/or how doable it is, but given that they're pretty much definitionally the people who've created most of the content that draws other users in, I'd try to find a work-around if possible - not a carte blanche to be treated specially for evermore, but if it's workable an accommodation to prevent them slamming immediately into a brick wall in terms of ability to post. I think there's also a tension here in exactly how we view content - are they the people *using* the most resources, or the people *providing* the most resources...?

Anyway, I've said my bit - I don't personally have a dog in this fight (I think I've only ever posted three photos here, and deleted even those at some point) and lack both the technical know-how and the data on existing users to say how easy, hard or impossible it is to do, so I'll leave it in your capable hands and abandon thread. Maybe you've thoroughly examined it and there's no feasible way of doing it; if so fair enough, but given the speed with which the changes have taken place, it seemed worth raising.

Dom.

[tikkifriend]

Keith there has to be a 'final' decision, otherwise this debate will go on for ever. You run the site, you administer it and quite frankly do all the work. That said a flat rate as you've put out is reasonable. You can't please all of the people all of the time....but by heavens you do a damn good job trying. (Not forgetting the gallant few who assist you).

I'll second that .

[7eat51]

I think final decisions might be dependent upon what occurs after the migration to the new hosting site. The effects of, and onto, the Anchorage need to be considered as well. If at all possible, I would encourage folks not to delete pertinent content until after the migration. Most of us can probably do some housecleaning or posting things differently without loss. That is different, though, from purging good content.

[Oberst Hajj]

Keith there has to be a 'final' decision, otherwise this debate will go on for ever. You run the site, you administer it and quite frankly do all the work. That said a flat rate as you've put out is reasonable. You can't please all of the people all of the time....but by heavens you do a damn good job trying. (Not forgetting the gallant few who assist you).

Thanks Neil. The current subscription plan is pretty final (even it the limits adjust to needs/resources). I just want to make sure I give everyone ample time to bring forth their ideas and concerns.

Dom, I'll break down my replies to each point. And again, I'm just using you as an opportunity to get my thought process and information out there...

I've no idea to be honest - you have the data, I don't. I presume Skafloc would be on there, since he's already posted about deleting AARs etc. to get down to a "gold" data allowance even. Presumably there are a few others (mayeb Kyte, Clipper?), but as I've already said, basically those who have *already* used up data allowances that are effectively being retrospectively applied. Without knowing how many users this is, or how many new "user groups" would need creating to create something workable, I don't know if what I'm suggesting is even feasible, but it seems worth exploring.

If this is just based on who has used up all of their space, that will eventually be everyone one (so to speak). I see can see very little difference in when someone maxes out their limits. Eventually, everyone one will have to "clean house", does it matter if it's now or later?

As per my previous, simply enough memory allowance to accommodate their existing stuff. They wouldn't be treated any differently in terms of future allowance, avatars, ranks or anything like that, but simply allowed enough extra storage to cover what they've *already* contributed.

Everyone currently does have room for their existing stuff, just perhaps not room for anything new with out cleaning house. If I give them more room than what they are currently using, I an treating them differently because they would end up with different limits than everyone else. For example, if Flying Officer Kyte has 1GB of photos up loaded, and I give him the 500MB of the Gold Membership on top of that, he now has 1.5GB of space for $60 a year and you only have .5GB of space for that same price. That hardly seems fair to you.

That they're not *getting* more at all, but rather they'd already posted a lot before anyone had limits or was paying for it, and that since subscriptions were introduced, they're restricted in the same way as everyone else. As I say, I don't know how many people are involved, and/or how doable it is, but given that they're pretty much definitionally the people who've created most of the content that draws other users in, I'd try to find a work-around if possible - not a carte blanche to be treated specially for evermore, but if it's workable an accommodation to prevent them slamming immediately into a brick wall in terms of ability to post. I think there's also a tension here in exactly how we view content - are they the people *using* the most resources, or the people *providing* the most resources...?

From a personal stand point and site owner, they are the people providing the most content. From and admin/business point of view, they are the ones using the most resources (at least disk space wise). The two views are not mutually exclusive to each other unfortunately

Anyway, I've said my bit - I don't personally have a dog in this fight (I think I've only ever posted three photos here, and deleted even those at some point) and lack both the technical know-how and the data on existing users to say how easy, hard or impossible it is to do, so I'll leave it in your capable hands and abandon thread. Maybe you've thoroughly examined it and there's no feasible way of doing it; if so fair enough, but given the speed with which the changes have taken place, it seemed worth raising.

Dom.

There is no script for me to run and the admin that tells me all of the useage levels for our members. I'd have to log into each account and use the method you described before to check how much space they have actually used. And as you can imagine, that's not really feasible. The subscription function is already built into the site and functions automatically once setup. There is no additional admin workload (in fact there is quite a bit less than how we were doing before) to them and they solve all of the problems of usage/cost.

[Honza]

Keith, thank you for your answers, at least i see clearly what you are doing now. So i deleted all my files down to the allowed space, but then i felt like i needed a shower or such, so i re-registered. I hope that is ok. You can close my old account. I sincerely hope the changes will bring the site even higher. Lino22.