Here's something I've never heard mentioned re the Macchi: Due to its design, it did not need synchronizers on its MGs. One wonders if this might be reflected in the rules at all.
Here's something I've never heard mentioned re the Macchi: Due to its design, it did not need synchronizers on its MGs. One wonders if this might be reflected in the rules at all.
Same can be said for the DH2
What might you expect to see in terms of special rules?
I'm not sure it would have any bearing. Machine gun jams were mainly due to ammunition/gun part failure, not interrupter gear. There may be a very slight increase in the rate of fire, but not enough to warrant a rules change. After all, rear guns on 2-seaters don't gain any bonuses, either.Originally Posted by csadn
RPM difference with & without interrupter gear?
Thanks for the update! It's nice to know what in the pipeline
I've not been able to find any concrete data. It would be variable depending on the rpm's of the motor and prop. Also, MGs were to be fired in bursts, so the difference between synchronized and unsynchronized guns was probably negligable in practical use.
A little anecdote, if memory does not fail.
At tle Swedish Air Force Museum in Linkoping, I saw a Macchi M.7 - a wartime evolution of the M.5. Quickest seaplane fighter of its time (210 km/h), Schneider Cup winner in 1921.
Macchi sent a couple to Sweden, proposing them to buy a lot as their main fighter: with so many lakes, they would not need airports any more (many years latter, a similar scheme was proposed to South Africa - Buy our Fiat G.91 jet fighters and some Piaggio P.166 to bring their engines and spare parts, and in case of war you will be able to redeploy your fighters squadrons on any highway, getting an airport wherever needed).
In the museum there is part of the Swedish test pilot report. He wrote that the plane was good under every point of view. But that he soaked in water both taking off and landing. Maybe this is something you can bear on Adriatic, but not in Sweden - in the end, he planes were not bought.
If the markleting office would only think about a closed cockpit, the busines could have success?
Have been enjoying this verbal ping-pong for some time now but have recently come to a few observations that may bear consideration.
First and foremost there is no way for Ares to keep all planes desired in production at all times...so rolling availability via new releases, reprints and special releases will continue to be the reality of the marketplace. Plus local game-shops simply cannot afford the massive cost of keeping such inventory on hand.
While it would be fantastic to predict future sales dead-on accurately...t'ain't gonna happen. So, sooner the better on move to individual molds for the planes. Also, thank God for all the designers and entrepreneurs producing the various other models of planes and balloons that fill gaps in the list of miniatures we all love and desire.
As a group, we seem to coalesce into groups best characterized by gamers that are wishful-thinkers with lots of lists of possibilities and pie-in-the-sky projections or into a group of pragmatists that focus on historically accurate timelines and game scenarios that bear some resemblance to the actual war.
Posted comments paint a clear picture of lots of flyers who prefer equal fighter versus fighter scenarios and numerous other gamers who devise a variety of elaborate engagements that reflect many events of the war, bomb runs, recon, balloon-busting et al. Glad we've got them all...provides plenty of gaming opportunities.
Still somewhat bemused by the focus on Snipes and EV/DVIII's considering the miniscule presence and impact they actually had on the war...makes me wonder why we are not hearing a similar outcry for Bleriots and Taubes to fill the missing planes from the early days of the war.
Finally, as we've moved through releases and reprints of the bulk of the most numerous planes continuing to expect "balanced releases" as the norm is probably making a fast exit from the production cycle. Realistically there seem to be only a few remaining choices for Ares...essentially Nie 11, Sop Pup, Dolphin, 1&1/2 Strutter, Short Bomber, HP 0/400 or Pfalz XII, Staaken RVI, Friedrichschaffen GIII, Felixstowe, Lohner...many of which already have cards from WoW.
Anyway, just my thoughts from this thread...but seriously, Snipes and Razors?
Because while some of these carried a MG, most were unarmed, and they were slow and not perceived are fighting planes. Not fun in a game environment. The air combat part of the war is perceived as starting with the Fokkers.
There is probably a bit of munchkin happening here, but mostly they are known fighters. The actual facts of their war service is not as well known, though certainly be those reading this forum, it is
They also saw action post-war, for those so inclined (To Poland we go!).
Karl
How else are kids these days going to be able to go Snipe hunting Thomas?? lol
They wouldn't be "known" if not for their performance figures being vastly superior to what had come before; they certainly weren't renowned for their war records....
No -- it's straight-up Munchkinry.
The minis haven't always matched up inside a serie.
By example, serie 2 Snipe and Fokker DVII have never flown at the same time during WW1 with the Roland CII.
Serie 7 Triplane and Aviatik DI haven't been used at the same time, neither on the same front.
Seven WW1 series have been produced, it's quite easy to mix them in order to have historical missions.
So, the italian Macchi M5 will be a great opponent facing Albatros DIII and Aviatik DI, as most of Austro-Hungarian aces have downed seaplanes and Macchi seaplanes :
Brumowski, Arigi, Linke Crawford, Graser, Strohschneider and of course the naval ace Banfield.
Have a look at their victories on the Aerodrome.
http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/austrhun/index.php
I didn't even know that RFC fought on the italian front with their Camel, Bristol F2b, DH4 and RE8.
Interesting missions can be led with all those planes along with Hanriot and the italian Spad, and with this Macchi that has an unusual shape in the WoG productions.
Stoked to have the DVIII and the nieuport 28, I don't actually mind how late war they are, they are good lookin planes, and now there are more options to use against snipes and DVII's and Se5's. bigger battles at similar abilities now.
The Seaplane makes sense to me on its own, i was expecting seaplanes due to one of the maps having a seas section, I bet if it was in a dual pack or other it would take longer to schedule in, to float one out on its own just means the risk is spread over different series, and most likely we are getting one sooner this way. Its obviously a talking point/minor controversy, (extremely minor heh) which shows its risk factor clearly. I don't paint these up myself, and the shapeways ones that I have bought painted annoy me as they are slightly different looking to the wings of war/glory ones. not buying any more!
Nice move Ares to give us one. Looking forward to shooting it down.
I guess i will have one of each, ares is working hard and fast. My wallet will bleed soon.
I have no interest in sea planes at all..repeat..repeat..repeat..keep strong...
Arrghh I missed this thread! I must have had a very funny week. How can you miss such release news!! (oh... I was away for a few days..thought I was going mad for a moment) A belated discovery!! And I say, if those float planes have such paint jobs as the one above, they will be big collectors items!
And in addition; let's face it..this is an Italian product, so it is their call.
I think it will add something special to the scenarios for us with just original WOG/WOW planes. A good idea to take the plunge.
I will only need one...but I said that for a lot of other "boring" two seaters..until you get one in your hands and suddenly you have to have all three!! I wonder what is cheaper..therapy or buying each set as it comes out. Can't afford either...its currently cold Turkey at every release...If only I had not started on the WWII path too!
Good thread, thanks for all the entertaining chatter!
Last edited by Blauer Baron; 10-02-2013 at 12:19. Reason: boo hooo I wanted the picture to be quoted...
We must also remember that a lot of the later planes saw service between the WW's in other conflicts and so they are viable to those gamers who post AAR's between the Great Wars.
I really like the idea to bring an Italian seaplane in series 8.
The Macci M 5 looks great and fits perfectly to the new Ares Games costal gaming mat.
A brave step of out Italian Game designers, like the black Bf.110, the black Beaufighter or the Norwegian Gladiator.
Those releases inspire us for new scenarios and look great besides the mainstream.
Hello everyone. New member here.
I'm still trying to catch up on what has happened with WoG and would like to ask a couple of questions, if i may.
I find the news about series 8 releases very exciting. 4 great new planes to look forward to. What was in series 7? Was that the one recently released with the Sopwith Triplane et al? I've seen that series described as both series 6 and series 7, so would appreciate clarification.
I was also interested to read about the reprint of series 2, which i assume came out originally with Wings of War. Could someone point me to a list of the planes that will come out in the series 2 reprint? Is there a release date for the series 2 reprint yet?
Much obliged.
7's not out yet, it's the Bristol F2B, Halberstadt CL.II, SPAD VII and Albatros D.II. 8's the set just starting into development, and 2-B is estimated for around Christmas with Fokker D.VII (reprint Goering, new Sachsenberg and Stark), Roland C.II (reprint MvR, possible LSK camo reprint, and 1 more undisclosed paint), DH.4 (two new prints, and either the USMC AEF as a reprint or a third new paint), and Snipe (Barker reprint and two new).
that's great. Thanks for the info.
Out of curiosity, i imagine there have been many requests for a Zeppelin airship. What has the feedback been like on this? The problem, of course, is its size, even in 1/144 we're talking a 4-5 foot long model, which is both expensive to make and to ship.
Has the answer been a flat out 'don't count on it' or are they dangling a 'maybe' carrot in front of us?
Perhaps an idea would be to make a Zeppelin in a bit smaller scale, such as 1/200. It would still be big (3 feet +) but would be a much more manageable model for marketing, shipping etc.
Sorry to piggy back my remarks on this thread but i'm not allowed to start one of my own yet.
Andrew, the biggest thing we know Ares has considered is a Zeppelin Staaken R.VI bomber--for the cigars, the guy you want to look for is "Clipper1801".
Also, if you do a little Googling for a guy named Thorsten Brand, he's released a free-download paper model of a Type P (the smallest mass-produced Zeppelin bomber airship) in 1/144.
The file you want is here.
Ares has said they would love to make a Zeppelin in 1/144 scale, but they are realistic about the production/logistics/cost complications. Perhaps if the Staaken sells well when/if it comes out they might look more into it.Out of curiosity, i imagine there have been many requests for a Zeppelin airship. What has the feedback been like on this? The problem, of course, is its size, even in 1/144 we're talking a 4-5 foot long model, which is both expensive to make and to ship.
Has the answer been a flat out 'don't count on it' or are they dangling a 'maybe' carrot in front of us?
Perhaps an idea would be to make a Zeppelin in a bit smaller scale, such as 1/200. It would still be big (3 feet +) but would be a much more manageable model for marketing, shipping etc.
Sorry to piggy back my remarks on this thread but i'm not allowed to start one of my own yet.
Also, if you need inspiration for a Zep, you can check out my album.
Also, I'm going to be uploading a checklist spreadsheet to Google Docs sometime in the next week, along with maybe an Excel version to the Files section here--that way you can create extracts or re-sort as you see fit. Most of the Series 2-B entries are placeholders at this point, though...
The info on Wiki is not complete as max speed shows no altitude (204 km/h - 127 mph).
On the Fokker DVIII Profile Aircraft Publication, a board indicates a max speed at ground level of 115 mph (110hp Oberursel URII) and 125 mph (145hp Ober. URIII).
http://fr.scribd.com/doc/4661549/Air...7-Fokker-DVIII
The 145hp Oberusel URIII engine was only available for flight test on late october 1918 for a couple of plane.
The standard Fokker DVIII had a 110hp LeRhone or Oberursel URII engine.
So, the Fokker DVIII couldn't have a A or N deck (Spad XIII is 133mph at 6500ft)
On page 9 of the Profile, it is notified that "the Fokker DVIII was not so quite agile as the DrI had been but it was more manoeuvrable than the DVII".
Maybe this indication would help to find the most correct deck.
Maybe a 617 scenario in the making??I was imagining a lake/reservoir, rather than a coastal map though. Not sure where i'm going with that one atm, but it will come to me
Yes, Wiki is always a tricky source. But unless there is published stats on it's speeds at different altitudes, that one sampling is all they have to go off of.
So if they use the 145hp Oberusel URIII engine as teh basis for the stats, it should be the A/N for speed. If they go with the 110hp LeRhone or Oberursel URII, it should be either the B/C for the speed.According to Andreas (published in an interview somewhere in these forums), the speed bands are:
201+ kph very fast (A, N)
181-200 kph fast (B, C, ...)
161-180 kph average (D, I, ...)
141-160 kph slow (E, G, ...)
There are some official aircraft that appear to be out of place, but this seems to be due to some historical or game balance reasoning.
I'm not sure how they are going to fit it in maneuverability wise. In game terms the D.VII is way more maneuverable than the Dr.I. So from the note in that book, the game has those two reversed. I guess there is room to place it between those two.
The maximum speed (mph) of an 110hp Oberursel Fokker DVIII (from that Aircraft Profile Publication) :
at ground level -> 115
6500 ft -> 113,8
10000 ft -> 112,3
15000 ft -> 107,8
With the 145hp Ober. URIII : 125 mph at ground level (no other indication)
Here is what I get from the Unofficial Plane Committee :
"the D.VIII is that the wartime (German flown) D.VIIIs with the 110hp Oberursel was underpowered and slow at combat altitudes. Hence the M deck.
Post-war (Polish) with the 150hp Gnome engine was better at altitude, so the N deck."
Thanks for posting the speed at altitude, I'm not able to see the scribe site here at work. Hopefully they went with those numbers instead of the fast URIII stat.
Could be worse; see my avatar. Bwahahahaaaa!!!
A Zeppelin Staaken? There's going to be a Zeppelin STAAKEN?!!!
Maybe Ares should talk to Thorsten Brand about licensing a pre-lasercut edition of his L13 cardmodel... it was designed with WOW in mind. Maybe some assistance with developing it into other airships? (Full disclosure, I'm already researching this and we've talked.)
IMO, the ideal WGF Zeppelin design would combine his and Stoff's approach to the frame with Clipper's solid foam-core gondolas--Thorsten also suggested making the driveshafts out of soldered metal rather than the bits of plastic of the baseline spec. Yes, this would go a little against the "open box, unpack and play" spirit of the game in requiring a great deal of assembly, but it would seem to my analysis to be the most economical way to get affordable yet realistic Zeppelins into as many hands as possible.
TBH, buying Zeps from Clipper seems to be the most economical way, and they are ready to play out of the box
The problem with fully assembled Zeps is shipping costs and fragile components... I dunno how many 24-plane cases are in an outer shipping carton from Ares, but I'd assume we'd only see 4-6 Zeps per even if it's the small "P-Schiffen".
Frankly, I'd expect a fully preassembled Ares ship to make Dave's look like a clearance sale on price... and then given how frail the driveshafts and the gondola connections would be, we could expect a LOT of Damaged In Shipping returns, which could get expensive to make right. OTOH, a "knockdown" product, prefinished and easily assembled and disassembled...
If preassembled is the way to go, maybe split the envelope at half length and pack the fragile piece like gondolas and drivelines inside, have 'em designed so that either the box will have room for the halves with those pieces installed or make them easily removed...
I'd start a poll about how many would buy an official Ares Zeppelin and how much they'd pay, but I'm still trying to figure out where the price-points would break down.
Last edited by Diamondback; 11-10-2013 at 10:19.
FWIW the Rebel Transport and Corellian Corvette for X Wing are (IIRC) in the region of $60 and $90 respectively and I would imagine a Zep would be several times larger than the corvette, so I'd guess in the $200+ region?
How big's the Corvette? A Type P in 1/144 is about 1.14 meters, or about 45".
Like I said, even though it means moving a lot of the product into DIYville, the best bet would be for Ares to either officially review Thorsten's model and declare it an "Officially Approved Miniature" with the use of a purchased "Ares Zeppelin Base/Stand Set", or to help Dave refine his and make those an "Officially Sanctioned Accessory". Or both: each of them has its advantages and disadvantages, Dave's being more expensive but ready-to-rumble from the box, Thorsten's being freeware but complicated assembly. (Anyone interested can get a feel for diameter and fin sizes by looking at the card L13's skeleton at http://jleslie48.com/zep/model_parts...leton_250g.pdf ) My own plan, I'm thinking to either ask Dave about a gon set with no envelope or see if Thorsten would be open to creating a Shapeways gon set, get the best of both worlds...
I can't tell *what* your avatar is....
But I *do* recognize the name -- and the overuse of Diabolical Laughter; when do you get to the "spamming with emoticons"? ;)
Careful what you wish for! here is some more than detailed data on synchronised ROF and it could at some engine RPMs be very slow - also the synchroniser gear could malfunction rendering the gun useless:
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/ai...s-spandau.html
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/20...te-fire-2.html
Bottom line: The double unsynchronised guns on the Macchi was more reliant ad had a higher and constant ROF
Maybe it should jam only with jam cards that have 0 points of damage, ignoring those symbols on 1 & 2 damage cards?
This rule for more reliable machineguns is also compatioble with the Bullet checker skill.
Sounds like a very good compromise to me Andrea.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Airfix Hannover 1/72 was one of my favorite WW1 kits as a kid. I will certainly be after those in 1/144!
Happy to see the preview of the eighth series, I really like the models. As I usually do, I'll buy one of each at first.
Nothing to say against the model choice; I never play historically accurate matches, so as long as I can have different models with different stats, colors and shapes I am fine, no matter if they were more or less relevant during the war.
Last edited by DanjelRicci; 01-02-2014 at 02:13.
YAY for the N 28
Great list. Im looking forward to the N28.
Ares has just provided me with a list of the planes (no pilots yet) that will be in Series 8...
Fokker E.V/D.VIII
Hannover CL.IIIa
Nieuport 28
Macchi M.5
Pranged my kite on the first post. I didnt intend to attach the original post by Oberst Hajj
Looks like you hit reply with quote... no biggie though.
Interesting choice of planes. I'd prefer more mainstay kites over seaplanes but do appreciate the variety. I'll most likely get them all....no...I don't have a problem...I can stop
whenever I want.
I don't want to stop.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Late to the game... but happy for the information nonetheless! Thanks!
My 2 (euro) cents to the thread:
I always loved "unusual" airplanes, so the Macchi and his brother's (Lohner - Sop Baby - and so on) are for me a must. Also, they can lead to an interesting mix with some naval warfare ...
And what about some balloon's?
And some HP 0/100 - 0/400, and Zeppelin-Staaken, and ..., and ....
Arghh!! My paypal account is quivering ...
Have a good flight,
Ste
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