Series 1A Ace Abilities - Nominations Thread

[bcpravel]

In the Series 5 Ace Abilities - Vote Here! thread, we voted on unofficial "Ace Ability Cards" similar to the cards in the Ace Cards Promo Pack. Now that Series 5 is complete, it's time to move on to the Series 1A aces!

The goal of this project is to create unique "cards" for each of the models released by Ares so far. Ultimately, some Aces might have multiple "Ace Cards" so each card should be representative of the pilot during the time that they were flying the aircraft that Ares has released their model for. For example, Monfred Von Richtofen is most famous for his Fokker DR.1, but he also flew an Albatros D.II earlier in his career. His card while flying the "Fokker Dr.1" would be different than his card when he was flying the "Albatros D.II". I am also using the suggestion that for every 5 kills, a pilot "earns" an Ace ability. While one might argue that an ace earned his kills because of his abilities, varying the number of abilities this way makes things more interesting from a gameplay standpoint and makes having multiple cards for the same ace more meaningful.

I tried to keep track of the discussion and have narrowed down the list to two nominations for each Ace. Please consider the Bios of each Ace and select which option you feel is most representative of that pilot during the timeframe he was flying that particular aircraft. Also, where possible, please try and keep the Aces in each series as unique as possible so that from a gameplay standpoint each one plays a little bit differently.

This is a nominations thread. Each day, I will release the name and bio of one of the Series 1A aces for discussion. The goal will be for the community to list out a few sets of Ace Abilities that could possibly end up on that Ace's card. We will attempt to narrow things down to two separate lists and then we will vote on which set of abilities to use in a separate thread. You are welcome to discuss other aces as well, the "ace a day" format is just designed to focus discussion a bit.

Feel free to lobby for your choice in this thread. I will be releasing an ace every week day until all Series 1A aces have been discussed. Once this is complete, I'll try to develop a few potential sets of abilities to go up for a vote. Once this list is up, we will have one more week for final discussion after which time we'll create a new thread for final voting.

Once the final votes have been made, I will add the Aces with their abilities to the "Aces" tab of the Wings of War Points Spreadsheet that I have been maintaining. Rabbit 3 has volunteered to create some actual cards that can be printed as well.

We are taking nominations for the following aces:

Aubrey Beauclerk Ellwood

• Suggested # of Abilities: 2
• Time of Card: 6/16 - 11/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 10
• Career: 6/16 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 10
• Known For: Attacking 3 Albatross scouts, driving two of the enemy down, then diving on the third and firing a long burst. Crashed near St. Po.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6216, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_Ellwood, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/ellwood.php, http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Ellwood.htm.
• Current Nominations:
  
  • gully_raker: Sniper, Aerobatic Pilot
  • bcpravel: Height Control, Itchy Trigger Finger

Arthur Coadou

• Suggested # of Abilities: 1 or 2
• Time of Card: 1/17 - 11/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 9
• Career: 7/15 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 9
• Known For: Was wounded while shooting down a Fokker D.VII but returned to action a month later, used to fly observation planes, was said to be a brilliant pilot.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6012, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Coadou, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/france/coadou.php
• Current Nominiations:
  
  • bcpravel: Acrobatic Pilot

Edward "Eddie" Rickenbacker

• Suggested # of Abilities: 5
• Time of Card: 9/18 - 11/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 26
• Career: 4/18 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 26
• Known For: Nicknamed "Iron Man Eddie", American Ace of Aces, seemed to prefer attacking from above and diving on his opponents, regularly attacked larger groups of aircraft shooting them down and chasing them away.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6012, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Rickenbacker, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/usa/rickenbacker.php
• Current Nominiations:
  
  • Skafloc: Daredevil, Super Ace, Lucky Pilot, Acrobatic Pilot, Perfect Aim.
  • Flying Officer Kyte: Daredevil, Super Ace, Lucky Pilot, Acrobatic Pilot, Perfect Aim (same as Skafloc).

Ernst Udet

• Suggested # of Abilities: 4
• Time of Card: 7/17 - 2/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 20
• Career: 9/15 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 62
• Known For: Emphasized marksmanship over flashy stunt flying, didn't get shot down by Guynemer when his guns jammed, was so terrified in his first combat he couldn't fire but focused on marksmanship after that and became aggressive, once attacked over twenty bombers while alone in a Fokker E.III (using a diving attack and waiting to fire until close range), flew observation aircraft before becoming a fighter plilot, was a womanizer and alcoholic but a very successful leader.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6593, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Udet, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/udet.php
• Current Nominiations:
  
  • Skafloc: Acrobatic Pilot, Daredevil, Sniper, Super Ace.
  • Flying Officer Kyte : Acrobatic Pilot, Daredevil, Sniper, Super Ace (same as Skafloc).

Georges Madon

• Suggested # of Abilities: 5-8
• Time of Card: 5/17 - 11/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 41
• Career: 1/13 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 41
• Known For: Escaped internment over Swiss airspace, former recon and bomber pilot, took a direct hit from a 77mm cannon and landed his aircraft, liked to get close - would multiple reports of blood on his aircraft and once brought the glasses of an enemy observer he had shot back, once crashed into an enemy aircraft and lived, post war aircraft had mechanical issue and he died maneuvering the aircraft out of the way of observers.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6012, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Madon, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/france/madon.php
• Current Nominiations:
  
  • None

[bcpravel]

First ace for discussion is Aubrey Ellwood.

Aubrey Beauclerk Ellwood

• Suggested # of Abilities: 2
• Time of Card: 6/16 - 11/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 10
• Career: 6/16 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 10
• Known For: Attacking 3 Albatross scouts, driving two of the enemy down, then diving on the third and firing a long burst. Crashed near St. Po.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6216, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_Ellwood, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/ellwood.php, http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Ellwood.htm.

In addition, I also have a question about the number of Aces Abilities. Some of the Series 1A aces have a massive amount of total kills resulting in a TON of abilities. Using the standard 1 ability per 5 kills ratio, some of them could potentially have 16(!) abilities using this formula. I'm suggesting that we consider adjusting the formula so that you have to double your number of kills for each additional ability. Thus, your first would come at 5, the second at 10, the third at 20, the fourth at 40, and the fifth at 80. This might mean some of the official cards don't quite line up, but if we don't adjust somehow the number of abilities just gets silly.

I'm open to other suggestions as well.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

That seems like a logical suggestion to me otherwise you create the uber pilot.

[Diamondback]

ISTR that the official cards do use a nonlinear chart, roughly doubling every level.

[gully_raker]

Yes I like your suggestion for the Ratio of Skills per Victories & may I suggest for Ellwood Sniper & Aerobatic Pilot.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I am happy to go along with that Bryan. Otherwise it would make some Aces almost invincible, and we know from MvR with 80 kills that that was not the case. They all had bad hair days from time to time.
Rob.

[csadn]

I'm suggesting that we consider adjusting the formula so that you have to double your number of kills for each additional ability. Thus, your first would come at 5, the second at 10, the third at 20, the fourth at 40, and the fifth at 80. This might mean some of the official cards don't quite line up, but if we don't adjust somehow the number of abilities just gets silly.

Quite agree, quite agree -- silly, silly, silly....

I'd suggest 1.5x to the next skill -- from what I can see it matches a bit better with the official product.

[bcpravel]

I've struggled with trying to figure out the "formula" used for the official Ace cards and have determined it must not have anything to do with the number of kills. For example, one pilot has 37 kills and is level 2 (2 Ace Abilities) while another is level 4 with 26 kills. My gut feeling is that the official cards are not based on a "formula" at all, but a designer's feelings about each individual pilot. Understanding this, I personally prefer the "doubling" method to the "x 1.5" method because it's easier to figure out. One thing I appreciate about the Wings of Glory system is that I don't have to do as much math as compared to other miniatures games systems.

That being said, the nice thing about the "x 1.5" system is that more Aces reach "level 5." With the "doubling" method, only MvR ever reaches Level 5 and many might argue that other Aces deserve to be in this category as well.

Ultimately, I prefer having a system to not having one, and until Ares releases official cards, I am satisfied to take the simpler "doubling" method, despite the fact that "better" pilots might have fewer Ace Abilities than MvR.

As far as Aubrey Beauclerk Ellwood's abilities go, I'm going to suggest Height Control since he seemed to use diving attacks and later in his career was Command in Cheif Bomber Command for the RAF. I will also suggest "Itchy Trigger Finger" because he used a long burst to take down an Albatross and must have fired first because he took on 3 of them at once.

We'll continue to take other nominations for Ellwood, but we will also move on to taking nominations for Arthur Coadou.

Arthur Coadou

• Suggested # of Abilities: 1
• Time of Card: 1/17 - 11/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 9
• Career: 7/15 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 9
• Known For: Was wounded while shooting down a Fokker D.VII but returned to action a month later, used to fly observation planes, was said to be a brilliant pilot.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6012, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Coadou, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/france/coadou.php

I'm nominating Acrobatic Pilot for Arthur Coadou because he was said to be a brilliant pilot. What do you guys think?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

From what little I have gleaned about him I would say that was a fair assumption.
Rob.

[Angiolillo]

Sorry if lack of explanations puzzled you.
True that qualities of the ace were in him bevore he started nbeing an ace, but training and experience polished them as stones that became diamonds... So skills are earned every 5 kills.
True, each ace sholud have a row of cards.
This one for Coppens for example:



On top it says "Level 2" with two dates: the 24th of June, 1918, is the day of his tenth victory, when he earned his second skill for the game (becoming of second level). 16th of July is the day when he earned his 15th victory, so reaching 3rd level. This card is good for him between these two dates. Having reached a total of 37 victories, he could have six cards, with from one to six skills.

In the Aces pack, leves are linked to the planes we have models for. We depicted him at the time of his blue Hanriot, Scaroni at the time of his yellow one and so on. For Manfred von Richthofen we choosed the time at which he flew a camouflaged Halberstadt D.II as the one in the game. Yes he (nobody else) could also have a card for his 16th level, but alas good for less than 18 hours: from late afternoon of the 20th of April, 1918, to the next morning.
Yes we could pass to one skill every 10 victories after a while. But... The mith could deserve all these skills, isn't it?

[Nightbomber]

Andrea, THAT POST IS KIND OF ILLUMINATION. Thank you

[bcpravel]

Excellent, thanks for the clarification Andrea! That does make sense and I completely missed the meaning of the time periods.

For the purpose of this exercise, I'll stick with this system and we'll just have some super aces! I'll make sure to include the time frame information as that will make a difference. Out of curiosity, by my count there are only 15 official skills in total (including Rookie Pilot and Chivalrous Aptitude). I don't think either of those would apply to the Red Baron, so do you have a current method for handling someone like MvR who might theoretically be at level 16? Do you use other skills or do you have some method of improving skills (i.e.; Acrobatic Pilot - level 3 or something like that)?

Thanks again for the clarification.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Certainly gives a clear reasoning behind the cards thanks Andrea.
This should make it much easier to decide how to go about deciding on skill levels for the unofficial cards.
Rob.

[bcpravel]

Next up, the American "Ace of Aces" himself, "Eddie" Rickenbacker!

Edward "Eddie" Rickenbacker

• Suggested # of Abilities: 5
• Time of Card: 9/18 - 11/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 26
• Career: 4/18 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 26
• Known For: Nicknamed "Iron Man Eddie", American Ace of Aces, seemed to prefer attacking from above and diving on his opponents, regularly attacked larger groups of aircraft shooting them down and chasing them away.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6012, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Rickenbacker, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/usa/rickenbacker.php

I'd love to get some good discussion going on his abilities since there are 5(!) of them.

[bcpravel]

We'll continue nominations for any of the previous aces (I was certainly hoping we'd get some for Eddie Rickenbacker at least!) but we will now accept nominations for Ernst Udet as well.

Ernst Udet

• Suggested # of Abilities: 4
• Time of Card: 7/17 - 2/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 20
• Career: 9/15 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 62
• Known For: Emphasized marksmanship over flashy stunt flying, didn't get shot down by Guynemer when his guns jammed, was so terrified in his first combat he couldn't fire but focused on marksmanship after that and became aggressive, once attacked over twenty bombers while alone in a Fokker E.III (using a diving attack and waiting to fire until close range), flew observation aircraft before becoming a fighter plilot, was a womanizer and alcoholic but a very successful leader.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6593, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Udet, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/udet.php

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Edward "Eddie" Rickenbacker

Suggested # of Abilities: 5
#1. Daredevil Pilot I.
#2. Exceptional Pilot I.
#3. Lucky Git I.
#4. Exceptional Pilot II.
#5. Deadly Aim I.

Time of Card: 9/18 - 11/18
Kills at time of "Card" date: 26
Career: 4/18 - 11/18
Career Kills: 26

Known For: Nicknamed "Iron Man Eddie", American Ace of Aces, seemed to prefer attacking from above and diving on his opponents, regularly attacked larger groups of aircraft shooting them down and chasing them away.
References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6012, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Rickenbacker, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/usa/rickenbacker.php

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Ernst Udet

Suggested # of Abilities: 4
#1. Acrobatic Pilot I.
#2. Daredevil Pilot I.
#3. Exceptional Pilot I.
#4. Marksman I.


Time of Card: 7/17 - 2/18
Kills at time of "Card" date: 20
Career: 9/15 - 11/18
Career Kills: 62

Known For: Emphasized marksmanship over flashy stunt flying, didn't get shot down by Guynemer when his guns jammed, was so terrified in his first combat he couldn't fire but focused on marksmanship after that and became aggressive, once attacked over twenty bombers while alone in a Fokker E.III (using a diving attack and waiting to fire until close range), flew observation aircraft before becoming a fighter plilot, was a womanizer and alcoholic but a very successful leader.
References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6593, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Udet, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/udet.php

[bcpravel]

Skafloc, I'm guessing the list of abilities you selected were from the "Over The Trenches" campaign or something similar? I really like this ruleset, but I was hoping to match with the abilities in the Rules and Accessories pack for the purpose of this project.

What do you think about something like this list for Udet? I tried to match the abilities as close as I was able:

• Acrobatic Pilot
• Daredevil
• Sniper
• Super Ace

Here's what I mapped for Rickenbacker:

• Daredevil
• Super Ace
• Lucky Pilot
• Acrobatic Pilot
• Perfect Aim

Do you think these would be acceptable interpretations? The main one I wasn't sure on was "Exceptional Pilot" being mapped to "Super Ace." I also mapped "Marksman" to "Sniper" and "Deadly Aim" to "Perfect Aim" but wasn't 100% sure if that's what you wanted.

Thanks for doing this. It's exactly what I was hoping for!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

For Udet, I would tend towards

• Acrobatic Pilot
• Daredevil
• Super Ace.
• Marksman 1.

For Eddie Rickenbacker

• Daredevil
• Exceptional Pilot
• Lucky Pilot
• Acrobatic Pilot
• Perfect Aim

Rob.

[bcpravel]

Could anyone help me "map" the Over the Trenches Abilities to the Rules and Accessories abilities? I was thinking of something like the following:

Possible Matches:

Format is Rules and Accessories Ability Name: Over the Trenches Ability Name

• Acrobatic Pilot: Acrobatic Pilot
• Daredevil: Daredevil Pilot
• Good At Escaping: Evasive Manoeuvres
• Perfect Aim: Deadly Aim
• Bullet Checker: Dedicated Ground Crew
• Lucky Pilot: Lucky Git
• Sniper: Marksman
• Itchy Trigger Finger: Quick Shot

Over The Trenches Abilities With No Rules and Accessories Match

• Exceptional Pilot

Rules and Accessories Abilities With No Over The Trenches Match

• Height control
• Chivalrous Aptitude
• Strong Constitution
• Super Ace
• Incendiary Bullets
• Technical Eye
• Rookie (No Ace Skills)

I was thinking about mapping "Exceptional Pilot" to "Super Ace" but the abilities are pretty different. Do you guys think the others match up OK?

[bcpravel]

Taking nominations for Georges Madon.

Georges Madon

• Suggested # of Abilities: 5-8
• Time of Card: 5/17 - 11/18
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 41
• Career: 1/13 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 41
• Known For: Escaped internment over Swiss airspace, former recon and bomber pilot, took a direct hit from a 77mm cannon and landed his aircraft, liked to get close - would multiple reports of blood on his aircraft and once brought the glasses of an enemy observer he had shot back, once crashed into an enemy aircraft and lived, post war aircraft had mechanical issue and he died maneuvering the aircraft out of the way of observers.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/6012, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Madon, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/france/madon.php

As a side note, Flying Officer Kyte if I use the mapping as listed above with Exceptional Pilot matching Super Ace, your suggestions match the translation I did for Skafloc. Is that what you wanted?

Thanks again everyone. As a reminder, feel free to add nominations for any of the pilots listed so far!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Taking nominations for Georges Madon.

As a side note, Flying Officer Kyte if I use the mapping as listed above with Exceptional Pilot matching Super Ace, your suggestions match the translation I did for Skafloc. Is that what you wanted?

That will suit fine thanks Bryan. I'll get onto Maddon as soon as I get a bit of time.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

For Maddon we must include Lucky Pilot, daredevil and, good at escaping.
Any other suggestions?
Rob.

[bcpravel]

Guys, I am traveling and will continue updating when I get back.

[Rabbit 3]

Just bumping this thread as it seems to have fallen a bit below the radar.
If anyone knows were I can get some photo`s of Elwood and Coadou for the cards I would be grateful as I`ve rather drawn a blank so far.

As far as allocating skills is concerned I think we should stick to a graduated system to avoid running out of skills and just assume that the missing `levels` are taken up by things like medals and promotions.
I suspect `uber aces` with 16 skills are unworkable in play anyway.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

As far as allocating skills is concerned I think we should stick to a graduated system to avoid running out of skills and just assume that the missing `levels` are taken up by things like medals and promotions.
I suspect `uber aces` with 16 skills are unworkable in play anyway.

Having tried to run aces with four skills and failed to remember one of them at a critical moment in the game I feel you may be right about Aces with 16 skills Robert.. I would suggest that a Super Ace may have all the skills to which they are entitled, but must choose which four or five they will use in any scenario before play starts. This will mean that he can tailor his game plan to the circumstances of the scenario, without overburdening the players.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

I'd say Madon should get some kind of ability about being able to shoot while bases overlap, maybe even a 1x/game save or "ignore" against collision damage.

[Rabbit 3]

With Udet I`m thinking,
Chivalrous Aptitude (He rates it if anybody does)
Perfect Aim
Hight Control
Acrobatic Pilot

Since Nexus gave Udet several different plane cards perhaps he needs more than one card to cover the different periods.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I'm thinking he got that good pretty quickly once he got going.
Can't fault your choice of attributes, though he was such an all rounder, that he could have virtually any skill, excepting incendiary bullets as Chivalrous aptitude obviously precludes it.
Rob.

[Captain Chum]

Was just wondering on the ongoing status of this project?

[Rabbit 3]

Seems to have dropped off the radar a bit, perhaps it needs to be a sticky to keep the discussion going and see if we can get a consensus on the best skills for each pilot.

[prymus]

I would love to participate, but having very limited knowledge of the subject I will just say thanks for the work. This has been educational and fun. The only "research" I have ever done was reading a book about Iron man Eddie back in 2nd grade, and yes, that was a LONG time ago! I think the ace cards are a great addition to the game, while not being overwhelming in play. Is there a "skill" that covers self preservation?

[fast.git]

Completely missed this the first go 'round... would love to have this as a sticky and see if we can drum up a little renewed interest in the project.

[Captain Chum]

Completely missed this the first go 'round... would love to have this as a sticky and see if we can drum up a little renewed interest in the project.

[OldGuy59]

I'm not sure this fits in, but is Flt. Lieut. Raymond Collishaw, D.S.C., R.N.A.S. and his Triplane in the running?

He had his 37th and 38th victories in the Ares dual-gunned Triplane.

Raymond Collishaw

• Suggested # of Abilities: 5-6
• Time of Card: 7/17 - 7/17
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 38
• Career: 8/15 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 60

Known For: At this point in his career, he was a flight leader, leading the Black Flight of No. 10 Naval Squadron RNAS, and between early-June and the end of July had accumulated 27 victories. This was against the Flying Circus and MV Richthofen's Jastas. He had had, at least, five near death experiences, including surviving four crashes. He was an excellent pilot, leader and marksman. There is some speculation that he didn't claim all his kills, giving some away to new pilots on the squadron to build morale and survivability.
References: "Raymond Collishaw and his Black Flight" by Roger Gunn, ISBN 978-1-4597-0660-6
The Aerodrome - Aces - Collishaw

Suggested Skills:

• Acrobatic Pilot
• Lucky Pilot
• Strong Constitution
• Itchy Trigger Finger
• Perfect Aim
• Sniper

Considering the amount of times he related to being out of action for jammed guns, I wouldn't give him Bullet Checker, nor Technical Eye. His memoirs also don't say he was a daredevil or risk-taker. He was hit in the head a few times, getting his goggles smashed, and glass shards in the eyes, but kept flying and fighting. In one instance that this happened, he removed the goggles, as they were shattered and covered in blood, and on landing was grounded for a week from frostbite to the face.
Perhaps consider: Super Ace.

[Captain Chum]

I like it!

[Diamondback]

I'll start a GoogleDoc spreadsheet where we can have it all at-a-glance.

One better, I'll prepare slots for the entire catalog, and a WW2 version.

Question... for 2-man crews do we credit each separately like the USAF did for F-4 crews in Nam, or do we only credit those two for what they did as a team?

[Diamondback]

Dropbox with start of a comprehensive WGF - WGS spreadsheet at https://www.dropbox.com/s/osowovzsgw...0Aces.xls?dl=0

[Captain Chum]

Dropbox with start of a comprehensive WGF - WGS spreadsheet at https://www.dropbox.com/s/osowovzsgw...0Aces.xls?dl=0

Spreadsheet looks good.

[Diamondback]

Since my deck is buried in Remote Storage, I'm gonna have to ask somebody to shoot me a content list and stats for the official Aces cards so I can feed 'em in.

[BlackSpy]

Would like these as stretch goals!

[Diamondback]

I've updated the Aces spreadsheet, and it's now up at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1381484541 --PM me your Google account if you want edit access.

Also, to raise a question for starting a similar work for WGS: How to handle the stupefying meatgrinder of the Ostfront where Hartmann racked up 352 kills?