Series 5 Ace Abilities - A Community Challenge!

[bcpravel]

BoardGameGeek's "Ace Promo Pack" lists "official" Ace Abilities for several Aces. I have been unable to find any other source for "official" Ace Abilities for the aces that are not in this Promo Pack so I thought I'd challenge the WingsOfWar.org community to come up with our own rules! I thought we could start by going through the list of Aces that have existing models associated with them, and if there is enough interest, we could expand the list.

The way this will work is that I'll post a list of Aces that do not have Ace Abilities, one series at a time (we'll start with Series 5). For approximately one week everyone can nominate and discuss which abilities they think each ace in the list should have. Once the time
period is up, I'll collect all of the nominations, whittle them down to a few choices, and then we'll vote on which abilities each Ace
should have. The winning vote will go into a spreadsheet and we can have an unofficial list of ace abilities the entire community can use.

Here is the list of Aces from Series 5 that currently do not have official Ace Abilities (these are the ones we need to work on):

Current Nominations:

Series 5:

• Ludwig Hautzmayer
  • Lukcy Pilot
    
  • Good At Escaping
• Hans-Joachim Buddecke
  • Daredevil and Perfect Aim
• Hans von Keudell
• Eugène Gilbert
• Jean Chaput
• Robert Saundby
• John Oliver Andrews

Other (we will vote on these later):

• Albert Ball: Acrobatic Pilot, Perfect Aim, Height Control, and Good At Escaping

I have a few of guidelines for the project:

1. Within each series, there are usually three Aces for each aircraft. The goal would be to make all three of these Aces have different
   abilities so that each model feels "unique" from a gameplay standpoint.
   
2. Assigned Ace Abilities should be represenative of the Ace during the time period that they flew the aircraft that they have a model
   for. For example, Ernst Udet flew multiple aircraft over the course of war. We have a model for him flying the Albatross D.V.a. The Ace Abilities that are selected for him should be representative of his characteristics while flying this aicraft. This way, if we ever have Aces with multiple aircraft, they can potentially have different set abilities to represent personal growth over time. Said differently, in some cases we may have multiple "Ace Ability Cards" for the same individual, each with their own set of abilities that represent an Ace at various points in their career.
   
3. While not always appropriate, it would be nice to have some aces with several Ace Abilities and some aces with just a few or even just one Ace Ability so that in games using points, there is some variety in the cost.

For reference, here is a list of Aces from Series 5 that have official Abilities:

• Lanoe Hawker - Strong Constituion (5)
• Jean Navarre- Sniper (8)
• Max Immelmann - Acrobatic Pilot (8), Sniper (8)

For reference, here is the list of Ace Abilities (and their cost in points):

• Acrobatic Pilot (8)
• Daredevil (6)
• Height control (6)
• Good at Escaping (7)
• Lucky Pilot (7)
• Chivalrous Aptitude (-5)
• Strong Constitution (5)
• Super Ace (8)
• Bullet Checker (8)
• Incendiary Bullets (6)
• Technical Eye (5)
• Itchy Trigger Finger (6)
• Perfect Aim (8)
• Sniper (8)
• Rookie (-10)

All points cost taken from this thread: Point System for Wings Of Glory

The targeted date for nominations and discussion about the Series 5 Aces to be completed is Friday, 8/15/13.

[wargamer]

Ace rules, rap, pages 20-22

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Looks like an excellent idea to me Bryan, if Ares is not about to introduce any more of the special Ace cards. I am a bit disappointed that they have not followed this up, as the initial sets went very well.
Rob.

[Rabbit 3]

Well there is no reason that we can`t make our own cards until such time as Ares gets around to producing official campaign rules.
Something I suspect may be in the pipeline in the long term.
One of my first attempts,

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Well there is no reason that we can`t make our own cards until such time as Ares gets around to producing official campaign rules.
Something I suspect may be in the pipeline in the long term.
One of my first attempts,

That will do very well for me Robert as AB is my favourite Nottingham lad, just above Brian Cluff. O.k. so he is not from Nottingham, but you know what I mean.

Rob.

[Nightbomber]

That is an excellent idea. I'd love to have single ace cards that could be distributed among players - sometimes to even the chances, giving some of them to newbies.
[This is going to be my plan for the coming Friday night game event when my SWMBO who loves colour of blue will be given Coppens' Hanriot with incendiary ammo...You know guys, she just took this plane by force today! I heard her talk with my buddy's wife...they are, so to say, excited ]

[MoonSylver]

Love the Albert Ball card. Pic I'd not seen before. Do you have base files of the layout by any chance? Not to nitpick, but there's a typo on "height".

That is an excellent idea. I'd love to have single ace cards that could be distributed among players - sometimes to even the chances, giving some of them to newbies.
[This is going to be my plan for the coming Friday night game event when my SWMBO who loves colour of blue will be given Coppens' Hanriot with incendiary ammo...You know guys, she just took this plane by force today! I heard her talk with my buddy's wife...they are, so to say, excited ]

I'm really glad to hear this Andy!

[phililphall]

Wonder if we could get them to do an ace card for the up-coming series and include them with the plane?

[john snelling]

Ludwig Hautzmayer: 15 Mar 1915 assigned to Flik 15 an observer and technical officer. mid Nov 1915 pilot and fighter training. Feb 1916 assigned to Flik 19 flew 2 seaters and fighters. 16 Feb 1918 assigned to Flik 51J a fighter squadron. 13 Mar 1918 became an ace. Mar 1918 became CO of Flik 61J a busy frontline squadron until the end of the war. Flik 61J only lost 4 pilots when he was in command.

He flew 100's of combat missions. He was never wounded or shot down in an aircraft. So I would give him "Lucky Pilot".

[PFactorDave]

Ludwig Hautzmayer: 15 Mar 1915 assigned to Flik 15 an observer and technical officer. mid Nov 1915 pilot and fighter training. Feb 1916 assigned to Flik 19 flew 2 seaters and fighters. 16 Feb 1918 assigned to Flik 51J a fighter squadron. 13 Mar 1918 became an ace. Mar 1918 became CO of Flik 61J a busy frontline squadron until the end of the war. Flik 61J only lost 4 pilots when he was in command.

He flew 100's of combat missions. He was never wounded or shot down in an aircraft. So I would give him "Lucky Pilot".

Perhaps "Good at Escaping" as well... Just a thought.

[bcpravel]

Since discussion is just now starting to pick up on this, I'm going to extend the deadline for nominations for another week. This is looking good guys, keep it up!

[Rabbit 3]

but there's a typo on "height".

Well that`s what prototypes are for!
Problem with my base files is that they are in Paint Shop Pro format and I dont have a clue as to how to convert to Photoshop.
I`ve been using that graphics program for years and I`ve found it good for everything I want it to do so I`ve never needed to upgrade!
"favorite paintbrush syndrome", all you modelers will know what I mean!

I think sombody, I think it was Zoe Brain did post some base files for the Ace Card blanks not all that long ago, might be worthwhile checking the files section.

Wonder if we could get them to do an ace card for the up-coming series and include them with the plane?

It could just be that they`ve been thinking on those lines already, hence the promo card decks as an experiment to test the water.
Frankly I think this is far superior way of adding historical aces to the game than how other games do it by building the character skill into the model stats.

[gully_raker]

At our games club we allow any Pilot who flies regularly (like the Hearts of Oak chaps or characters like Lancelot Steele & Albert Biggs)& scores 5 victories to have an Ace ability that suits his ficticious personality. On achieving 10 victories he then can choose another skill from the list given in the Rule book. Seems to work well & everyone likes the idea.

[Captain Chum]

Has Andrea ever mentioned anything about a future ace deck?

[Captain Chum]

Nice cards Robert.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

At our games club we allow any Pilot who flies regularly (like the Hearts of Oak chaps or characters like Lancelot Steele & Albert Biggs)& scores 5 victories to have an Ace ability that suits his ficticious personality. On achieving 10 victories he then can choose another skill from the list given in the Rule book. Seems to work well & everyone likes the idea.

If we could get someone to produce a generic card for Paint Shop, we could personalise it for any fictional pilots which we fly Baz.
Rob.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

I think a generic card, with different national backing, would be excellent for everyone running their own campaigns. I still have all the pilot logs from our club campaign played years ago. Each one covers the pilots details, medals awarded, number of kills, what was shot down and when and ace skills awarded.

[bcpravel]

I have played the pseudo role playing style of game where players get their own ace abilities and love it. It's still the most likely way I would use the ace abilities. I just thought that for shorter games having pre-generated cards for the aces from each series could be fun too. This way, I would have a reason to collect every model (well, more of a reason, it hasn't taken much encouragement so far ) and more importantly, if three players are using the same aircraft they might all have a slightly different "feel."

Ultimately it might be fun for some of the aces to have a unique ability from a gameplay standpoint that no one else has. I don't want to wander down that rabbit hole in this thread though.

The other thing Ace Cards might do is provide for some"list building" opportunities for tournaments ala X-Wing miniatures once we have an official points system in place. I realize that Wings of Glory is a completely different style of game, but the nice thing about the "lists" concept is that people can use the aircraft they have and with a combination of Ace Abilities and the points costs for each aircraft, you should be able to create relatively balanced lists. This can help the players who just own early war aircraft and are facing "that guy" who just brings Fokker D.VIIs all the time and adds a fun layer of customization to the game that many other miniatures systems have.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I just like sticking my Ace on the table and going up against all sorts of other aircraft until it is time to do a runner, or the skies are empty.
Rob.

[Rabbit 3]

Well here`s one for the other side and more in line with the original direction the thread started in.

[Doug]

This is a good idea, you have my support.

[calm]

A lot of great ideas ! I like the Ace concept, but, IMHO, for it to work, it requires a strong commitment from the players to a campaign game.

[bcpravel]

Love it Rabbit. This is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for. The card just takes it up another level. Thanks! I've updated the original thread with the nomination. Is there any specific reason you suggested the ace abilities that you selected?

@Calm, that's why I like the idea of the Ace Ability cards. You get to use the Ace Ability rules, but wouldn't need a campaign to take advantage of it. You just pick your Ace card and go to town!

[PFactorDave]

I've been reading a lot about the Lafayette Escadrille (N.124)...

Raoul Lufbery was very careful inspecting his ammo. So, he would get "Bullet Checker"...

[Rabbit 3]

Love it Rabbit. This is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for. The card just takes it up another level. Thanks! I've updated the original thread with the nomination. Is there any specific reason you suggested the ace abilities that you selected?

Not really,what I`m doing is initially going by the promo cards level system which I`m interpreting as,

Level 01=5 Victories=1 Ace skill.
Level 02=10 Victories=2 Ace skills.
Level 03=20 Victories=3 Ace skills.
Level 04=40 Victories=4 Ace skills.
Level 05=80+ Victories=5 Ace Skills. (this is Richthofen!)

That gives me an idea roughly how many skills to allocate then its a matter of reading up on the history of the relevent pilot and working out what skills seem to be the best fit.
So there`s plenty of room for interpretation there.

For campaign use it would be a better idea for experience to be points based with each level to have a set point rating to reach,though there is a problem with the skill `Chivalrous Aptitude` as it allows a player pilot to jump levels by aquiring a couple of additional skills.

As far as doing pilot cards is concerned I`ve noticed that there is a problem with, for example Hautzmayer who only claimed his first three victories while flying the A.III.
That makes him still level 0 so he dosn`t really rate a card!
With him though, one of the old Nexus Albatros D.III`s is a plane he flew later and he does rate a card for that model.

[Diamondback]

CA also, IIRC, PROHIBITS some other skills. Like no Incendiaries (unless targeting a balloon and maybe not even then), and not even using Sniper--his objective is to drop the machine but he'll try to do it so the man aboard can survive, and once another pilot's no longer a threat he'll let them leave the fight. (Udet versus that pilot who had a gun-jam beyond ready recovery.)

This is a very interesting project... any chance of seeing it do cleanup on Series 1-4 someday too? I've suggested both more WWI and adding WWII Aces Decks to Andrea, and while he's interested in doing 'em it sounds like a matter of waiting to see how the first one does. (My apologies, AA, if I'm misunderstanding.)

[Mike George]

Nice work and thanks.

[Rabbit 3]

In thinking about how `Chivalrous Aptitude` should work in campaign play perhaps this should be an option only available for a player at Rookie level which allows them to gain a skill once they reach Level 00.
Once they reach Level 01 they then get the option to select a second skill beyond the normal one but are prevented from gaining more skills beyond that point until their Level is greater than the number of skills they have.

[Diamondback]

I'd make CA a DISability or "Negative Ability"--the trade-off being a better chance at bonus points from a downed enemy pilot living to be taken prisoner, and a better chance at him surviving if downed because of the enemy respecting his noble deeds and treating him accordingly once taken.

[john snelling]

Not really,what I`m doing is initially going by the promo cards level system which I`m interpreting as,

Level 01=5 Victories=1 Ace skill.
Level 02=10 Victories=2 Ace skills.
Level 03=20 Victories=3 Ace skills.
Level 04=40 Victories=4 Ace skills.
Level 05=80+ Victories=5 Ace Skills. (this is Richthofen!)

That gives me an idea roughly how many skills to allocate then its a matter of reading up on the history of the relevent pilot and working out what skills seem to be the best fit.
So there`s plenty of room for interpretation there.

For campaign use it would be a better idea for experience to be points based with each level to have a set point rating to reach,though there is a problem with the skill `Chivalrous Aptitude` as it allows a player pilot to jump levels by aquiring a couple of additional skills.

As far as doing pilot cards is concerned I`ve noticed that there is a problem with, for example Hautzmayer who only claimed his first three victories while flying the A.III.
That makes him still level 0 so he dosn`t really rate a card!
With him though, one of the old Nexus Albatros D.III`s is a plane he flew later and he does rate a card for that model.

Did the "ace" have the ability that allowed him to be an ace or was the ability developed over time because he was an "ace"?

[john snelling]

Not really,what I`m doing is initially going by the promo cards level system which I`m interpreting as,

Level 01=5 Victories=1 Ace skill.
Level 02=10 Victories=2 Ace skills.
Level 03=20 Victories=3 Ace skills.
Level 04=40 Victories=4 Ace skills.
Level 05=80+ Victories=5 Ace Skills. (this is Richthofen!)

That gives me an idea roughly how many skills to allocate then its a matter of reading up on the history of the relevent pilot and working out what skills seem to be the best fit.
So there`s plenty of room for interpretation there.

For campaign use it would be a better idea for experience to be points based with each level to have a set point rating to reach,though there is a problem with the skill `Chivalrous Aptitude` as it allows a player pilot to jump levels by aquiring a couple of additional skills.

As far as doing pilot cards is concerned I`ve noticed that there is a problem with, for example Hautzmayer who only claimed his first three victories while flying the A.III.
That makes him still level 0 so he dosn`t really rate a card!
With him though, one of the old Nexus Albatros D.III`s is a plane he flew later and he does rate a card for that model.

Did the "ace" have the ability that allowed him to be an ace or was the ability developed over time because he was an "ace"?

[MoonSylver]

Well that`s what prototypes are for!
Problem with my base files is that they are in Paint Shop Pro format and I dont have a clue as to how to convert to Photoshop.
I`ve been using that graphics program for years and I`ve found it good for everything I want it to do so I`ve never needed to upgrade!
"favorite paintbrush syndrome", all you modelers will know what I mean!

I think sombody, I think it was Zoe Brain did post some base files for the Ace Card blanks not all that long ago, might be worthwhile checking the files section.

Thanks! I'll have to take a look & see if I can find them. I'm a GIMP user myself. Never used/learned MS Paint too much, but if I can't find Zoe's I might take a look at your base files for MS Paint, if you're willing to send them, as I think I could change them into GIMP...

[Captain Chum]

Well here`s one for the other side and more in line with the original direction the thread started in.

Another great card Robert!

[bcpravel]

I've come up with some possible options for the Series 5 aces.

It's broken into the following format:

Pilot Name

• Time of Card: The time period that the Ace "card" we are creating represents. Each card is intended to be a "snapshot" of the pilot's career while flying this particular aircraft. There are many aces that I think it might make sense to have multiple cards for to represent the changes in their career over time. I did my best to try and figure out this time frame based on the web pages in the "reference" section. It may not be 100% accurate.
• Kills at time of "card" date: The maximum number of kills a pilot had by the end of the "time of card" date.
• Career: My best attempt to record the time an ace was an active fighter pilot in WW1. I did not include time of service when doing something other than flying fighter aircraft. It may not be 100% accurate.
• Career Kills: The total number of kills a pilot had at the end of his career or the end of the war.
• Known For: A few bits of information that I found interesting about this individual. I used this to figure out some possible Ace Abilities.
• References: Websites I found information about these pilots. I did not look up any source records, this is all just based on info posted on the internet so it may not be 100% accurate.
• Suggested # of Abilities: Generally I used the following ratio: 0-5 kills =1 ability, 6-10 kills = 2 abilities, etc. There are a few instances that I feel this may need to be modified, usually if a pilot had at extremely high amount of kills within a short period of time.
• Possible Ace Abilities: Abilities I thought might be appropriate based on the information that I read about this pilot. I'd appreciate feedback on this more than any other area!

Hans-Joachim Buddecke

• Time of Card: 12/15 - 8/16
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 4
• Career: 9/15 - 2/18
• Career Kills: 13
• Known For: Was a mechanic before the war, disabled observer's machine gun from 200 meters.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/2788, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Joachim_Buddecke, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/buddecke.php
• Suggested # of Abilities: 1
• Possible Ace Abilities: Technical Eye (5), Perfect Aim (8), Sniper (8)

Hans von Keudell

• Time of Card: 9/16 - 1/17
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 11
• Career: 9/16 - 2/17
• Career Kills: 12
• Known For: Used to fly bombers, flew a lot of different aircraft, had multiple instances where he shot down more than one aircraft in a single day, shot down many aircraft in a short time period.
• References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Keudell, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/keudell.php, http://www.aresgames.eu/3391
• Suggested # of Abilities: 2 or 3
• Possible Ace Abilities: Height Control (6), Acrobatic Pilot (8), Itchy Trigger Finger (6)

Eugène Gilbert

• Time of Card: 11/14 - 6/15
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 5
• Career: 11/14 - 5/18
• Career Kills: 5
• Known For: Built his own aircraft (it didn't work), was an air racer before the war. He seems more famous for being an early ace than for his ability as a fighter pilot.
• References: http://earlyaviators.com/egilbert.htm
• Suggested # of Abilities: 1
• Possible Ace Abilities: Technical Eye (5), Daredevil (6), Acrobatic Pilot (8)

Jean Chaput

• Time of Card: 1/16 - 4/16
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 3
• Career: 2/15 - 5/18
• Career Kills: 16
• Known For: Was wounded 3 times (2 by the time of this card). Was more famous for flying Neiuports so I think he'd be a great candidate for another card. Also had some success against balloons later in his career.
• References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Chaput, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/france/chaput.php, http://www.aresgames.eu/2928
• Suggested # of Abilities: 1
• Possible Ace Abilities: Strong Constitution (5), Lucky Pilot (7), Good At Escaping (7), Incendiary Bullets (6)

Robert Saundby

• Time of Card: 1/16 - 6/17
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 5
• Career: 1/16 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 5
• Known For: Most famous for shooting down a Zeppelin and his career as a senior officer in WW2.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/3573, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/saundby.php, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Saundby
• Suggested # of Abilities: 1
• Possible Ace Abilities: Incendiary Bullets (6), Good At Escaping (7)

John Oliver Andrews

• Time of Card: 11/15 - 11/16
• Kills at time of "Card" date: 7
• Career: 11/15 - 11/18
• Career Kills: 12
• Known For: Got within 25 yards of an enemy aircraft and shot it down while under heavy fire. Was famous for driving off Max Immelmann and shooting down Stefan Kirmaier. Seemed to be pretty talented.
• References: http://www.aresgames.eu/3573, http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/andrews.php, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Oliver_Andrews
• Suggested # of Abilities: 2
• Possible Ace Abilities: Itchy Trigger Finger (6), Strong Constitution (5), Daredevil (6), Perfect Aim (8), Sniper (8)

I'd appreciate any feedback. In particular, I'd love some help in selecting which Ace Abilities would be most appropriate for these individuals.

Thanks everyone!

[Zoe Brain]

I'd add SuperAce to Ball.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I'd add SuperAce to Ball.

I would have to endorse your remark, with no bias at all on my part Zoe.
Rob.

[Rabbit 3]

Much as I`m a fan of Ball myself I don`t think he rates more than four skills.
I COULD be persuaded to replace Height Control or Good At Escaping with Super Ace though!

P.S I`ve put a couple of blank versions of the Ace Card into an album on my profile if anyone wants to make ther own.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I would swap good at escaping for Super Ace any day.
Rob.

[bcpravel]

The man had 30 kills within a 3 month time span. If anyone deserves Super Ace, I think it would be him!

[Diamondback]

Maybe Hautzmeyer's Ace ability should be something new that gives both himself and anybody flying his wing a survival bonus. I mean, only losing a single pilot per month and a half in command was pretty darn good for his time...

[gully_raker]

Much as I`m a fan of Ball myself I don`t think he rates more than four skills.
I COULD be persuaded to replace Height Control or Good At Escaping with Super Ace though!

P.S I`ve put a couple of blank versions of the Ace Card into an album on my profile if anyone wants to make ther own.

I would certainly replace "Height Control" seeing the accepted reason for his demise was becoming disorintated in cloud & exiting it upside down with insufficient height to recover.

[Zoe Brain]

I would certainly replace "Height Control" seeing the accepted reason for his demise was becoming disorintated in cloud & exiting it upside down with insufficient height to recover.

As his favourite method of attack was to creep up behind and below, and fire a short burst at point-blank range, I disagree. Height control is perfect for him. Daredevil pilot, not, there is where disorientation would come in.

[kduke42]

I'd think again about making Immelmann a Sniper. He was rather famously a poor shot, and the impetus for the three MG Eindecker was to help him with that.

[Rabbit 3]

I would certainly replace "Height Control" seeing the accepted reason for his demise was becoming disorintated in cloud & exiting it upside down with insufficient height to recover.

I think I`m going to go with Zoe on this one.
I`m going to replace Good at Escaping with Super Ace on the card.

The thing about clouds is that once you fly into them you loose all fixed reference points and by nature the air is rather `bumpy`. That means that in Ball`s time it was very easy, even for a very experienced pilot like him to become disorientated since they didn`t have the benefit of reliable cockpit instruments.
Particularly the artificial horizon, the S.E.5a was rather good for its day in having reasonable cockpit instrumentation but that gadget was still years in the future when Ball was killed.

Another thing is, by what I`ve read his plane was seen emerging from a low cloudbase in an inverted dive just before he crashed.
Now, based on my old somewhat limited `real world` flying experiences in Cessna`s and Piper Tomahawks and a good bit of playing things like IL2 Sturmovik and the various Microsoft Combat Flight Simulators thats a BAD position to find youself in!

I`ve found that in flight sims if I found myself in that situation my first instinct was always to pull the stick back and try to level out.
Every time I tried it, BANG! straight into the ground and mission over, it wasn`t until I sussed out that what to do was to push the stick FORWARDS and level out upside-down then roll out afterwards that I worked out how to survive something like that.
I keep wondering, was that what happened to Ball, he had little time to act and followed his first instinct which in this case was the wrong thing to do!

[Rabbit 3]

Maybe Hautzmeyer's Ace ability should be something new that gives both himself and anybody flying his wing a survival bonus. I mean, only losing a single pilot per month and a half in command was pretty darn good for his time...

With Hautzmeyer as with some other later period Aces it looks like their main abilities were more in leadership and tactical ability rather than basic flying or gunnery skills.
At the moment that does mean that its difficult to allocate any of the existing skills to them easily.

With Hautzmayer I`m thinking that he might benefit by giving him `Chivalrous Aptitude`and the consequent level boost, not to mention the disadvantages.

As previously discussed this card is really intended to cover him at a later date when flying the yellow Albatros D.III rather than the Fokker A.III.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Another thing is, by what I`ve read his plane was seen emerging from a low cloudbase in an inverted dive just before he crashed.
Now, based on my old somewhat limited `real world` flying experiences in Cessna`s and Piper Tomahawks and a good bit of playing things like IL2 Sturmovik and the various Microsoft Combat Flight Simulators thats a BAD position to find youself in!

I`ve found that in flight sims if I found myself in that situation my first instinct was always to pull the stick back and try to level out.
Every time I tried it, BANG! straight into the ground and mission over, it wasn`t until I sussed out that what to do was to push the stick FORWARDS and level out upside-down then roll out afterwards that I worked out how to survive something like that.
I keep wondering, was that what happened to Ball, he had little time to act and followed his first instinct which in this case was the wrong thing to do!

I like your thinking Robert, as we know that he was also mentally and physically exhausted at the time. Add that to the probability that his engine was starved of fuel and BAM! Does he react wrongly? My guess is yes.
After all he would not be the first Ace to do the wrong thing. Jimmy McCudden springs to mind, and also Manfred himself, broke at least two of his own rules.
Rob.

[john snelling]

I like your thinking Robert, as we know that he was also mentally and physically exhausted at the time. Add that to the probability that his engine was starved of fuel and BAM! Does he react wrongly? My guess is yes.
After all he would not be the first Ace to do the wrong thing. Jimmy McCudden springs to mind, and also Manfred himself, broke at least two of his own rules.
Rob.

or was the plane damaged and the airframe was stressed enough to break apart? Alot to consider. Rob I do like like your thoughts. Stress and tiredness causes situation unawareness and bad decisions. Seen this countless times in the Navy. Men are not machines.

[bcpravel]

With Hautzmeyer as with some other later period Aces it looks like their main abilities were more in leadership and tactical ability rather than basic flying or gunnery skills.
At the moment that does mean that its difficult to allocate any of the existing skills to them easily.

Rabbit3's comment here got me thinking. I completely agree that for several aces, we don't really have any existing abilities in the RAP that match up very well. I was trying to avoid creating our own abilities, but I almost wonder if that is necessary. Do you think it would be better to try and come up with our own abilities (a "leadership" ability or something along those lines in this case) or just map to the existing abilities? I think the biggest advantage of not adding new abilities is that people only need a single list of abilities and won't need to download separate rules. On the flip side, if people are willing to go to the effort to download a list of abilities, they probably wouldn't be opposed to downloading rules to go with it.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Interesting Bryan.
If we stick with the Ares abilities no one can gainsay us.
If we start adding new ones, which could be more accurate for a certain Ace, maybe we should put them in the House Rules forum so as not to confuse new players.
Rob.

[MoonSylver]

Interesting Bryan.
If we stick with the Ares abilities no one can gainsay us.
If we start adding new ones, which could be more accurate for a certain Ace, maybe we should put them in the House Rules forum so as not to confuse new players.
Rob.

I know it would be double work, but one could always do both - a RAP compliant version & an unofficial Ace Skills version. I dunno...seeing as these would all be unofficial mamybe more trouble than it would be worth.