I remember hearing of a tail gunner who was blown out of his position and falling some (I think 12000) feet and landing in a snow drift. But that said Sgt Jackson selfless sacrifice for his comrades was well deserving the VC. I'm glad he survived and lived to tell the tale.
Rob,
your reading of the rudder jam rule is that you can't do turns but you can do sideslips? I always played it as left rudder jam means not being able to use any movement cards with the left arrow indicator, turns or sideslips.
Paul
It is just that sideslips are not generated in the same manner that turning would be effected by a jam Paul.Originally Posted by PRS
Andrea has spoken about this, and several people who know a lot more about aerodynamics than I do have pontificated about it. You could do far worse than to ask Zoe. She will know the ins and outs of the theory.
At any rate if you are not comfortable with sideslip just do whatever you feel is best for you. After all it's your game and you paid for it.
Rob.
You are playing the game 'rules as written' Paul. The actual text of the WGF 'rudder jammed' special damage states:
Cards with the (left rudder damage) symbol indicate that the rudder of the plane is jammed. This special damage is kept secret. The airplane cannot plan maneuvers to the left (those that have an arrow pointing left in the lower left corner of the card) at the beginning of the next turn. Any maneuvers already selected for the remainder of this turn are carried out as placed.
Cards with the (right rudder damage) symbol indicate that the rudder of the plane is jammed. This special damage is kept secret. The airplane cannot plan maneuvers to the right (those that have an arrow pointing right in the lower left corner of the card) at the beginning of the next turn. Any maneuvers already selected for the remainder of this turn are carried out as placed.
As they have direction arrows on the cards these restrictions include sideslips.
Thanks for the clarification Carl.
Rob.
A sideslip (at least when I was flying myself) was accomplished by turning in one direction with the ailerons and countering with opposite rudder. In fact you can turn (as I often did early on) without using the rudder at all - just rather inefficiently and with a significant degree of crabbing (that said, a good way to lose height in the turn if you want to), so perhaps "rudder jam" isn't actually anything of the sort, but is reflecting aileron damage?
Thinking on though, since you are using opposite rudder, perhaps you should be forbidden from sideslipping in the opposite direction to the way the jam is indicated?
This has been a very interesting thread, with lots of ideas and interpretations. So I thought I would throw a new one in. At the moment your fire goes out after three turns, unless you get another one but fires are not predictable. So how about this, you keep getting cards at the end of the turn, if its a 0 the fire has gone out, if not your kite continues to burn. You now have a choice land and save yourself or fight the fire and risk destruction. I know this should be in the house rule section but the thread was too good to miss.
alas you can't as the "no turn rule" (at least as expressed in the Duel Pack rules, which is what I have to hand just now) says
"the airplane cannot choose maneuvers to the right (maneuvers that have an arrow pointing to the right in the lower right corner of the card) for the next turn"
(assuming a right hand jam card - left is of course similar)
and as far as I can recall sideslip cards do have the requisite direction arrow.
Like the explosion card one must not get too hung up on the special damage wording - the effect of 'rudder damage' is just an abstraction for any damage that affects control - jammed rudder, damaged ailerons, torn elevators, or stuck control column.A sideslip (at least when I was flying myself) was accomplished by turning in one direction with the ailerons and countering with opposite rudder. In fact you can turn (as I often did early on) without using the rudder at all - just rather inefficiently and with a significant degree of crabbing (that said, a good way to lose height in the turn if you want to), so perhaps "rudder jam" isn't actually anything of the sort, but is reflecting aileron damage?
Thinking on though, since you are using opposite rudder, perhaps you should be forbidden from sideslipping in the opposite direction to the way the jam is indicated?
I thought maybe there was an optional rule that I had missed differentiating between turns and sideslips, but it is your house rule to add more complexity and realism. I like it but I wouldn't want to use it for our store games where we have new players.
Trevor,
I like this rule! There is the option of a fire almost going out, then flaring back up (three turns of damage would simulate this, with a zero in the middle). But as a house rule, a zero ending the damage and putting out the fire sounds nice. Especially if the first card drawn is a zero!
Mike
Thanks Mike, I just like the unpredictable part of not knowing, to take the risk or not. Diving for the field not knowing if your aircraft will explode before you get down or fighting like mad to put it out and continue the fight bringing your wreck home just to see the look on your mechanics face "Yep I brought it back"
Here is a question that came up in our latest game, which is not covered by the rule:
The new rules state that a pilot can try to put out a fire by doing an overdive; at the end of the overdive, the pilot draws a B damage card and removes the amount of flame markers equal to the damage shown on the card; ignore all other damage indicators on the card. What happens if you draw the explosion card? Does this mean (a) your plane disintegrated in flight and is destroyed, (b) you remove all flame markers or (c) you draw another card?
I would say that, if you follow the instructions in the rules, you would remove 0 damage counters and ignore the explosion, because the explosion card bears no damage number and the explosion is the "other damage indicator".
Completely correct David.
David is correct, thanks.
Hey everyone,
So we had a game tonight. I received a second smoke counter (which we turn into fire). My plane only has a few more points until it is fatally wounded and I am at altitude 1 as I have followed a balloon down.
I am on my side of the lines so I decide to land the plane. The landing sequence is dive, long straight, stall. During the long straight do I take an A Damage for my fire? I did but I wasn't sure what is correct. After my stall the AA gun on the ground plugged me one last time as well... wounding my pilot and finishing the plane...
Cheers,
Michael
As I read this Michael, you take a Fire damage card at the start of a sequence of three cards, before playing, so unless the straight was ther first card in the sequence you do not need to take one at that time.
As far as the stall move goes, as you were below level two an AA gun can't hit you.
Rob.
Following the 'no straight when on fire' rule Michael then yes you do.
Well spotted Dave. I missed that one.
Rob.
I put it down to insufficient gin in the tonic !!
I am a trifle confused. You take fire damage on the last card of 3. You accrue 3 fire tokens. You decide to overdive the next set of 3 cards, by the time you've completed the overdive you have taken 3 A damage cards (one damage card every card played?), or is it 1 damage card at the start of each 1st of 3 cards only?
Ok on page 12 of the rulebook it states :
Each turn before revealing the first maneuver of the turn, the player removes a flame counter and takes a damage card from the A Deck. Only damage points and explosions are taken into account.
Hope that helps
Trev
The first card of the overdive is a stall card so is a 'steep' not a 'straight', the dive is a dive so also not a straight & although the last card is a straight because it is part of the overdive I don't believe it is counted as such so you won't be taking any A damage cards but you will be drawing a B damage card and removing flame tokens that match the number on the card thereby, hopefully, putting the fire out which, under the circumstances, is the point of this manoeuvre !
And you'd only need two points as you will have already discarded one token at the beginning of the turn as Trev has kindly illustrated.
Yes, Dave - this is my understanding as well.The first card of the overdive is a stall card so is a 'steep' not a 'straight', the dive is a dive so also not a straight & although the last card is a straight because it is part of the overdive I don't believe it is counted as such so you won't be taking any A damage cards but you will be drawing a B damage card and removing flame tokens that match the number on the card thereby, hopefully, putting the fire out which, under the circumstances, is the point of this manoeuvre !
Regarding my other query I guess the fire gets you one last time before you land.. ouch.
As of late, in my league, the player's have really been complaining about the amount of fire in the game. It seems between the explosion card and the fires our early war planes don't have much of chance. The player's which seem to fly better and make smart moves aren't really rewarded. It seems almost every outcome is more driven by luck than solid play.
Michael
Michael
So...quite realistic results happening Michael ! Tell them 'solid play' involves not getting shot - then 'luck' doesn't happen to them !!
Must read the rules, for I fear I am going with the WOW rules not the new rule book. Nothing is as straightforward as misunderstanding a rule you thought you had got right.....
Neil
The first card of the overdive is a stall card so is a 'steep' not a 'straight', the dive is a dive so also not a straight & although the last card is a straight because it is part of the overdive I don't believe it is counted as such so you won't be taking any A damage cards but you will be drawing a B damage card and removing flame tokens that match the number on the card thereby, hopefully, putting the fire out which, under the circumstances, is the point of this manoeuvre !
And you'd only need two points as you will have already discarded one token at the beginning of the turn as Trev has kindly illustrated.
Von Richthofen's success was based on his hunting ability - he would stalk his prey, strike fast and then get out and start the process again if circumstances were not favourable. Because of the usual time constraints and human nature smart play is often curtailed by impatience to get that kill and readiness to trust your luck regarding return fire.So...quite realistic results happening Michael ! Tell them 'solid play' involves not getting shot - then 'luck' doesn't happen to them !!
Hey Rob - i meant to say AA machine gun. it wasn't an Archie.
Flash and Carl.. I think it is time my group elevated their play. They are indeed complacent and willing to trade shots instead of use a Richthofen-like tactic.
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