I think if you want to find a match that is contemporary to the SPAD VII, you probably want to go with the Albatros II. Don't know what else there is, really. Maybe they could do the Albatros D.III OAW (would be cool with the engine cowling and lack of cone spinner), or Fokker D.III.Originally Posted by Diamondback
Last edited by greenalfonzo; 01-29-2013 at 19:46.
Just noticed on Ares facebook page;
Are you guys going to make any of the WWI seaplanes?
Ares Games We have in our production pipeline a Macchi M-5 "flying boat" at the moment.
Yesterday at 3:42am ˇ Like ˇ 1
Now that is an interesting move. I have made one but it would be great to have a whole flight.Just noticed on Ares facebook page;
Are you guys going to make any of the WWI seaplanes?
Ares Games We have in our production pipeline a Macchi M-5 "flying boat" at the moment.
Yesterday at 3:42am ˇ Like ˇ 1
Rob.
Perhaps this might be a new Special pack like the balloons. One large plane and a small float scout to go with it.
That would be good Keith.
it is time tat the Italian Wing got some goodies other than just a Caproni, although we still have no British large Bomber.
Rob.
I think they are. I'm very interested to see the next CP plane they display in 3D. Great news about the Macchi M.5.
I do applaud the efforts by Ares trying to get pre-paints out to the gamers. Especially with the other companies that make the metal planes that we want/need and with the option to try to get your favorite from Shapeways. Granted, all the others you have to paint and modify to use the poles and bases.
What if, Ares just released a paint it yourself series of their planes complete with all the gear needed to fly it in the box, ie, bases, poles, decks, decals?? Then all you do is paint it the way you see fit for your flights. Or do most of you like the prepaints? I like them since they can fly straight outta the box and look cool on the table.
Whadda yall think?
You must be new here.
Welcome to the scrum.
Howdy jbmacek,
Yep, I am new. Thanks for the welcome. Still trying the best way to contact all the flyboys in Texas.
If you check through the threads Blake you will find many and tortuous discussions on the subject of unpainted Ares models.
Rob.
My view is that it does not matter so much as to what is being produced as if ARES continue with their current rate of new releases we should in theory get what we are all individually after (within reason). I think ARES is doing a good job.
Looking at the timeline published in _Richthofen's War_:
Albatros C.2, C.3, C.7, D.2, D.3, D.5, and (just barely) D.5a
Aviatik C.2
DFW C.5
Fokker Dr.1 (just barely)
Halberstadt D.3
Hannoveraner CL.2 (just barely)
LVG C.5
Roland C.2
Rumpler C.4, C.5
Pfalz D.3 (just barely)
"Just barely" here means "deployed in the last quarter on '17, as the SPAD 7 was being phased out".
So, how's the M-5 balance out? Is it equivalent to the Austrian Loehner, or more the size of an H.16 or Felixstowe?
Well, drop the 2 seaters and the ones that have already been released as models, and there are your possibilities!
And weight heavier on planes that already have cards but no minis, if there are still any in the pool. Italicized are filtered out by two-seat, underlined by already available minis, leaving bold as possibles. (I'm counting Alb. D.V and Va as one tool, since they mainly differ in struts--but we DO still need an accurate Pfalz D.IIIa!)
Albatros C.2, C.3, C.7, D.2, D.3 (WoW Ser. 3 or 4), D.5/D.5a (WoW Ser. 1, WGF-2)
Aviatik C.2
DFW C.5
Fokker Dr.1 (just barely)(WoW Ser. 1, WGF-2)
Halberstadt D.3 (WGF-1)
Hannover CL.2 (just barely)
LVG C.5
Roland C.2
Rumpler C.4, C.5
Pfalz D.3 (just barely) (WoW Ser. 3 or 4)
A bit smaller than a loehner.
I wonder what decks they'll use for the new planes...
Unofficial Stats
CL.II - J* - B/B - 16 (J* is J with a sideslip each side removed)
M5 - B - A - 15
The Fokker D.III should also make that list. No card for it, but it was out there and should be considered, though it would make easy meat for the SPAD.
Albatros D.II is the most likely and popular candidate. I think the Austrian version of the Albatros III (OAW) deserves its own model, as it was a little faster, and a litle tougher than the German version, and was kept at the front until the end of the war. Has a different look, too, with the extra engine cowling & exposed spinner. Can't have too many Albatros!
The D.3 wasn't in service long enough to warrant a mini: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_D.III .
It was in service longer than the Snipe. Better paint schemes as well.
Well Osprey has in it's Duel series "SPAD XIII vs Albatros D.V" and "SPAD VII vs Ablatros D.III" so here we have the historical match. But we already have the Albatros D.III as model, so what now? Albatros D.II? An Albatros (Oeffag) D.III would be nice too
I like the idea of the Albatros D.II. It would be nice plane to bridge Series 5 and 3.
I'd like to see the Alb D-II with a Nieuport 11 as the opponent.
They could also do a repaint of the Se5a and another Alb DV as a duel pack. I'm wondering if they won't go to all Duel Packs instead of issuing new aircraft with 3 schemes. It provides a complete game in a box for a very cheap price considering what you get in the box.
Was it? The D.3 only lasted one month at the front lines (Sept. '16), and perhaps another 12 in home-guard (Oct. '16 - Oct. '17); plus however long the ten given to the Netherlands actually served (sometime in '21), tho' those never saw combat. Conversely, the Snipe entered front-line service in August '18, and remained a front-line fighter until the War's end (some three months); then continued in post-War service as a front-line unit in the RAF until 1926, seeing service in the Russian Civil War as well. So it seems to me the Snipe survived rather longer than the D.3 ever did.
We're talking WWI, not the Russian Civil War. So yeah, 13+ months is considerably longer than 1.5 months (first operational patrols were flown at the front on Sept. 24, 1918)
The bigger picture here is that we are fast running out of eligible CP scouts, while we still have a loooong list of allied planes that should be made. So unless Ares decides to rerun already circulating planes along with all-new models in upcoming series, lesser known and successful aircraft are going to have to join the CP airfleet.
CP:
Last edited by greenalfonzo; 02-02-2013 at 12:03.
Actually, you are limiting the usefulness of this game by restricting the timeframe to merely the great war. Many of these aircraft were in use up to the next great war in various wars. Many aces took their services to other nations and participated in not only wars but hollywood stunts. Feel free to use imagination next time you create a scenario, odds are there was a war somewhere that used your favorite plane, thus precluding the use of really minor rarely used aircraft.
No one is limiting anything. Ares is the only one restricting the time frame to the Great War. Players, of course, can play whatever they want. WWI aircraft and combat are just way more popular than the rare and obscure between-the-wars stuff.
And anyway, why would changing the game to go post WWI "preclude the use of of really minor rarely used aircraft?" Lots of less successful aircraft ended up in colonial backwaters (like those mediocre Fokker D.III's and IV's which ended up in the middle east). In fact, secondary fronts and colonies were one of the main places fighters that weren't up to the rigors of the western front were sent. I don't think anyone really wants to restrict the game to only scenarios which include verifiable historical encounters of the most common planes.
Last edited by greenalfonzo; 02-01-2013 at 19:51.
There are several Central Power aicrafts to bemade. Pfalz D.XII and Fokker D.VII/E.V comes to mind.
You mean Fokker D.VIII.
The remaining (unannounced) significant CP scouts that should be made it would be:
Albatros D.II
Albatros D.III (OAW)
Roland D.VI
Pfalz D.XII
Fokker D.VIII/E.V
Minor planes that saw action would the Hansa Brandenburg D.I, Phonix D.I, SS D.IV, Fokker D.III & Fokker D.IV.
Major Allied choices would be:
FE.8
Sopwith Pup
DH.5
Sopwith Dolphin
1 1/2 Strutter
Nieuport 11
Nieuport 28
Maybe the FB.5 and FE.8 as well, but they are so early there is nothing really left for the CP to match with them.
Am I missing anything major?
First: 13 months *total*, not 13 months at the front; the D.3 only lasted one month (if that) at the front. The Snipe, as noted, managed 1.5 months -- and it would have done more, except the War ended.
Second: "Home defense" /= "front-line"; so far as I can tell, German home-defense fighters never saw action (maybe a handful engaged some of the British missions to the coast). In Germany, "home defense" was a euphemism for "this airplane is a PoS, but we can't admit that publicly; so let's shunt it into a corner and hope no one notices"; and the Fokker D.3 was a PoS if ever there was one -- badly-designed, and worse-constructed. (The British couldn't quite pull the same stunt, between those annoying zeppelins and the later Gothas; hence those plaid Bristol F.2Bs with five 0.30s in one of the card sets.)
- been there, done that, the horse is dead jim.
Seaplanes sound like a nice new addition. Have to make a plane sea mat to go with the others just released.
Look, you said in your first post about the D.III that it "wasn't in service long enough to deserve a mini." I pointed out that it was in service longer than the Snipe. Now you are apparently saying it doesn't deserve a mini because it was a "pos." You won't catch me defending how the D.III performed, just that it existed, and thus deserves consideration as a possible model. Anyway, in the game there are a number of our members already flying them courtesy of shapeways: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...I-in-Shapeways I'm not a painter, so I have to wait for the official models to join in the fun.
Germany's HD units protected cities against bombers and recon flights. Seriously, what's the point of having squadrons with operational aircraft staffed with trained aircrew and mechanics if not to actually fight? Or are you suggesting that Germany had such a wealth of resources so as to spend them maintaining dozens+ squadrons to just provide entertainment for all the starving civilians? Britain had first rate aircraft providing their HD units because they could afford them. Germany's HD was stuck with old, under performing, and second-rate scouts because they were too strapped in planes, manpower & material to even keep up with the needs at the front, not for lack of anything to actually shoot at.
I read that some of the problems had as much to do with poor quality fuels, lubricants, and engines as with design. That's also a reason why the D.II, D.III & D.IV were good enough for pilots to fight with, and even make ace on in places like the Middle East.
You don't have to buy a Fokker D.III model if you don't want to. Me, I want everything, and would relish the opportunity to match a D.IV against a Pup over Greece, or send a half dozen D.II & D.III's up against a pair of bombers. I also particularly like scenarios that involve putting an Ace pilot loaded up with skills in a lousy plane, and then flying him against some of the enemy's best aircraft. (like how Boelcke flew in the D.III) Great challenge.
Oh, and did I mention I like the paint schemes in that pic? Black tail, white tail (with black rudder w/white cross!), and especially the striped tail!
Last edited by greenalfonzo; 02-02-2013 at 20:20.
The question here is, are would the stats for it be enough to push it into the next speed band for maneuvers? I don't have the stats in front of me for the the official D.III and D.V, so I'll let someone else look them up and see where it would fall. From Ares' point of view, I'm not sure how many people would by "just another D.III or D.V" in game terms. Maybe if the paint jobs where really good.
But it is more expensive then just two plane packs... and all the current players would not want to pay those extra few bucks it would require. Not to mention all those damage decks you would end up with. What I think we will see is the paint jobs and/or planes inside the Duel Packs changing from time to time.
Ares has already said that they are looking at moving away from the "Series" style of release and want to move to releasing a single mini every couple of months. I think this is partly because they have foreseen the shortage of good match ups between planes. Going to a one plane release would allow them to cover more subjects, with out the fear of having to reprint it if it does not sell well and the rest of the series it was released with does.
I agree.
The Oeffag D.III's 200hp Daimler made the plane at least 10mph faster, with an even faster climb rate, which should be good for the next deck, and the overall reinforcement of the lower wings & struts w/o any weight increase should pop up the damage amount as well. The look is definitely different - It loses the distinctive cone spinner, has a rounded nose, and then you do the winter version with the fully enclosed cylinder head cowling. 500 were made, and as someone who prefers flying the Italian front, it is pretty essential to represent the Austrian forces, who flew it as their main scout until the end of the war. Check out the distinctive look, it deserves a model just for that:
I would pay the extra for the new paint schemes, and so would other established players. I remember how many of us bought the revised Deluxe set just for the planes. Obviously you keep the single plane releases as well. More importantly, this set provides a much cheaper entry into the game for the curious & gift givers. Staying under the $30 pricepoint is a big psychological hurdle for some. There really is something to putting out a complete game in a box for $25ish or so with the simplified contents. Do a one each year with unique paint schemes to keep it fresh as well as rope in us addicts.
Last edited by greenalfonzo; 02-03-2013 at 11:05.
I like the look of the Oeffag D.III and they would make the perfect fit for my Italian planes to dance with. I vote for it if anyone is sending in suggestions to Ares for new planes.
Is there a Shapeways version out there? Although, I prefer the pre-paints :-)
Cya
No -- what I was trying (and apparently failing) to say is "the Fokker D.3 is not a candidate for a mini because it served *at the front* for only a month before being relegated to fields far behind the lines, and for reasons of its own making; and thus is not 'notable' enough". The Snipe, OTOH, spent 1.5 months at the front, *and would have been there longer if the War had not ended, so there's no telling how long it might have lasted as a front-line unit* (note: Post-War, the Snipe was still being used by the RAF, in the Army Of Occupation in Germany, in the Russian Civil War, and well into the 1920s; by contrast, as noted earlier, the Fokker D.3 had vanished from user inventories by 1921); thus, it is more "notable", and deserving of a mini.
Indeed, Germany was hard-up for equipment -- but that being the case, on both the front-line and in the rear, why would the D.3 have been pulled off the front-line (thus depriving the front-line of needed combat strength), unless it was of such poor quality that leaving it there would have been suicide for the pilots using it? (As it happens: The main reason it was yanked was the discovery that Fokker had half-assed the construction materials; the D.3 was prone to failure in its structural member, esp. the tail.)
Moreover: The Entente forces did not start performing bombing raids on Germany proper until *very* late in the War, modulo a few early-War RNAS strikes on Zeppelin construction and maintenance facilities; and those were mainly anti-shipping strikes on the coast. The Independent Air Force was mainly used for army support, not strategic bombing; so what German targets it hit tended to be very close to the France-Germany border, or the front line. So for most of the War, German home-defense squadrons saw no action.
Finally: Not all the British home-defense acft. were front-line units; if memory serves, there were also quite a few Avro 504s, BE2cs, and other obsolescent types wandering around (witness Warneford's takedown of a Zeppelin in a Morane which didn't even have a gun on it...). I mentioned the Bristols only in terms of "the game has cards for those". In fact, here's a passable listing of British home-defense squadrons:
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/ot...squadrons.html .
Not surprisingly, until late in the War the squadrons were equipped with obsolescent rubbish.
That's part of it, yes -- but other parts have to do with the general inadequacy of the forces they were fighting against; all the "top-shelf" stuff went to the Western Front, while anything seen as "inadequate" got packed off to SE Bumf*** (witness the Morane monoplanes, which actually weren't that bad, but required a different fighting technique).
Eh -- if Ares makes one, chances are I'll get it.
You did -- I'm surprised the Germans didn't invent the "dazzle" camouflage scheme....
It's also good for post-war E.Europe; made and exported from newly-minted Czechoslovakia IIRC.
Karl
An excellent move, IMHO
Agreed.
Maybe give the OAW one or two more hit points and one better climb rate? I'm not sure it'd be visibly different enough for the "more gamer than historian/modeler" crowd, but if it gets better base-stats even if the deck's the same that might help.
http://www.shapeways.com/model/56630...d-iii-153.html
Unofficial Stats
Albatros D.III (Oeffag 153) Austro-Hungary 17/Q2 to 18/Q4 // ManDeck:B // Arm:A // Dam:15 // Ceil:13 // Climb:2
Compare with
Albatros D.III Germany 17/Q1 to 18/Q1 // ManDeck:J // Arm:A // Dam:14 // Ceil: 11 // Climb:4
Albatros D.V/D.Va Germany 17/Q3 to 18/Q4 // ManDeck:B // Arm:A // Dam:15 // Ceil:14 // Climb:4
Thanks Zoe that is great info. And the paint scheme is very cool! Is the top decals, if so who makes them?
Cya
I've gotta make a series 253. I guess that's next on my to-do list.
I just want some planes. I don't care which ones. I need more planes and I need them now !!!
I think it's time for more medication.
I will indent for another shipment of the Dried Frog Pills from supplies. Clipper had the last of the current batch for his Elves.I just want some planes. I don't care which ones. I need more planes and I need them now !!!
I think it's time for more medication.
Kyte.
It's decals, and I do. Want some?
For the CP fighters I would also add the A-H Phonix D.I about 213 made and in service starting winter 1917 to the EOW.
That's cool. My eyes are hurting from reading all the back posts on this forum and it seems that quite a few of you create your own decals. I think the last time I used a decal must have been around 1963 building a plastic car model :-)
I have seen Micro Sol and Micro Set used in posts when working with decals, just don't know which to use when.
I am liking the decals and the look of them on non prepaints. At this stage of gaming I am looking for a way to get my minis out on the tabletop more quickly. I'm thinking using decals is a step in that direction.
Is there a "how to" for applying decals to these small planes on the forum :-D
Cya
Last edited by Big Blake; 02-04-2013 at 13:51. Reason: Spelling
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