WMMS. 10th March.2013.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

This thread is now dedicated to this event which has been given the go ahead by the organisers thanks to Mark.
We need to now sort out what our programme of events will be. As Boney is the expert at organisation I am going to ask his advice first bearing in mind that we have two tables, one of 6'x4' and the other of 8'x6'. I have some bits of display material and will try to obtain also a replica Blue Max and V.C. to use as props. I will also try to get a German Ensign. What do you suggest for an Allied colour to counter it?
We should also have the new play mats by then all being well, and that should cover the tables O.K.
Then there is the matter of T-shirts. How will we finance them and who will want to buy one.
Over to you chaps for comment.
I also want a shortlist of those members who can support us on the day.
Mark will be our official contact with WMMS so all messages will go through him, but please copy me in.
Rob.

[Boney10]

Ill certainly help with anything I can ref the organisation of games.
First question is which era has the most support WW1 or WW2, after Reading the bigger table did seem to suit a large bombing raid type game so the larger table for that. But it would be a waste of the space if only 3 people want to play WW2 while 23 want to play WW1.
Once we know a rough estimate of numbers and which period I can offer a bit more detail. Hopefully The black Knight and The Red Dragon will be available to put on a good WW2 game, Im sure we would have enough models for a couple of Squadron type games.
I can certainly offer up 2 flights of Naval 10 camels, Naval 9 tripes as well as a few Jastas or we can have a free for all in the WW1. Again lets see how many people we can get. Is the tables mentioned the maximum we can get? I would have thought we could get enough people for 3 of the smaller tables. But lets see names.
For me I cannot say as yet as I havent seen my new shift roster for next year but will let you know asap.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks Chris.
We will be glad of your wisdom on this.
Rob.

[Guntruck]

Think I've got the green light for this. I've got the mat I was presented with at Origins if that helps. I can chuck in any WW1 stuff that is needed and by then should have Spits, Hurris, Defiants, Stukas, 109s, Heinkels, Dorniers, Junkers 88s and Havoc Intruders painted up and looking for a fight.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

That is great Steve.
I would love to see your mat in action in the flesh as it were.
Rob.

[flash]

And here is a Link to the Alumwell Wargames site & the West Midlands Military Show if you want to find out more about them.

[Boney10]

My new proposed Rosta puts me at work for Milton Keynes & WMMS & Reading

[David Manley]

Better give your scheduling authority a rocket for that one Chris!

If it helps I can lead on the Reading event (assuming this is Colours?) I'd just need to borrow your mats

[David Manley]

Some thoughts, tips and experiences from the game last week. Chris and others will, I am sure, chip in with others.

1) Tables - worked well with two tables for the games and a third for the display. With two tables it depends on how you want to play the "display" element.

2) Display - lots of models, boxed sets, rule books and flyers. But need to be permanently manned to make sure things don't "walk"

3) Sheets - take along plenty of sheets / blankets to drape over the tables and improve their appearance. Also hides the stash of goodies that you've bought at the show when you stow them under the table, also any bags, boxes etc. that you have brought your kit in (again, improves the appearance)

4) Plan what you want to do. The first time I did a WoW parti game I made the scenario up "on the hoof". Bad move, as you end up taking a long time between games. Better to have at least a rough idea as to what you want to do and have the models, cards, etc. ready accordingly

5) Mission - Players at shows generally want a quick game. But they want fun too. A straight air superiority dogfight can be fun, but depending on how things go it could last a loong time. The most successful parti games I've run over the years have some kind of defined "mission" element, to give the game focus and also to give it a natural time limit. So in this context a balloon busting mission, or escort a 2-seater or bomber to an objective and back is ideal. Often a good idea to have one of the "staff" running the objective aircraft as no-one likes being a bullet magnet and being a kid driving a 2 seater with everyone trying to kill you can't be much fun

6) "Staff" - remember to enjoy yourselves. Get out to enjoy the show, draw up a rota if necessary for who will be away when. And get your best "public speaker" on PR, drawing in players from the crowd. I've seen naff games at shows do really well because the club has a "showman" who brings it alive. Conversely I've seen brilliant games killed because the "staff showed no enthusiasm, failed to engage the crowd at all, etc. (this is one thing I'm NOT good at doing, and I can really appreciate the help of those that are!)

7) Check lists - as you are putting your plans and thoughts together draw up a checklist of what you need to do, and what you need to take with you.

There's a handful of suggestions to eb going on with. Good luck!

[Stormkahn]

Doubt I'll make this one as this point

However, I do have 5 WW2 bombers (2xwhite 111's, green 111 and both B25's) that I can get to Kyte along with whatever else you want to borrow. I had wondered about putting on a monster He111 raid and let all comers leap in a Spit or Hurri and just see who can do the most damage!!

cheers,

Dave.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Sorry to hear that Dave, but will be glad to ferry anything as needed.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Mark.
Do you think you could negotiate with WMMS for another small table for our static display? As Dave Manley suggested it will take boxes and objects off the edge of the games tables.
Rob.

[Baron Rolf]

Ok I've got a plan but I'm off to work shortly so I'll post my ideas either tonight or over the weekend , the one thing I do want is a head count of folk who' re thinking of going , so can you guys please register what side you'd like to fight for.
WWI : - Central Powers or Allies
WWII : - Axis or Allies

[Boney10]

For me WW1 entente and WW2 ( I take it ths will be BoB?). Allies. But got no issue swapping sides if short

[Archidamus]

All things being equal I can make this - and whilst I don't mind playing either side in WW1 I prefer Entente. Never played WW2 version

[David Manley]

If I can make it I'm happy with either side

[flash]

As to security re bits n bobs going walkabout, how about bagging the boxes or securing them with cling film ? it will keep curious & sticky fingers at bay but keep the goodies in view & accessible to your users, and you can always have a demo item or two in your pocket maybe ?
Might be able to make it but won't be sure until nearer the time.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I don't mind which side I play, as long as I get one game in flying my aircraft with my Bulldog emblem and the K on it, just for the Papparazzi you understand. I treat it as a branded product.
Rob.

[Guntruck]

I'm not minded which side I play on or which period.

[Baron Rolf]

Well for myself it'll have to be the Central Powers , I've no planes for WWII but I'm happy to run a participation game whilst folks are playing WGS.

[Baron Rolf]

I'd like to thank the above for registering their interest in attending WMMS in March next year , right we've got two tables one 8' x 6' and the other 6' x 4' so I was wondering if we could join those tables together to form one giant table for our mega dogfight games?, with players controlling four planes each and then we could form up actual Squadrons/Jastas with objectives to acheive during the two hour gaming slot, once the first game is complete we'll tot up the points per side to see who's won the battle. As per the rules you get 1 point for every enemy plane that's left the table and 2 points per plane that's been shot down, then perhaps 5 points for every objective acheived during the game?, this will apply to our WWII chaps when they get their chance to shine on the day. Right so the first hour will be covered by WWI with planes from 1916 - 18 and from the following companies Ares Games/Nexus , Shapeways , Sram , Skytrex & Reverisco I almost forgot AIM planes for our WWII chaps.
And then once the first battle is over will have two hours using the tables for participation games so if some folk wish to help out that would be grand but I don't want to many folk wondering off because we've got our planes ect which we don't want someone to walk away with so all of us will have to be vigilant, then it's back to what we all love more Wings of Glory for the last two hours another mega dogfight set in 1940 for a Battle of Britain game as with before there'll be scenarios for each Squadron/Jasta to fight over with objectives to be won, I was also thinking of having prises for the best painted planes , for the best Ace , the most Chivalrous opponant but I'll get back to you on that.
All players must have the current rules to play the games during the day so only Wings of Glory WWI & II no Wings of War rules I'm sorry about this but they're the new rules for the games we play, please let me know your thoughts on what I've just posted , and the above is subject to change and will be reposted with any additional tweeks thankyou.

Baron Rolf

[Baron Rolf]

Oh I almost forgot all players must be at WMMS by 9.30 a.m then it'll be a day of shooting each others planes out of the skies above no man's land and the Southern coast during the Battle of Britain game , then we'll get a chance to spend money on new planes or other new toys our respective swmbo's will hopefully not find out about lol , then it'll time to pack away our gear at 4.00 p.m ish.

[Hedeby]

Count me in - I can muster 31 planes and both the east and west mats, + I have every box which may be useful for display - have we given any though to having a 'tournament' between those of us attending, bragging rights etc?

[Boney10]

I also have a couple of aircraft to utilise, however controlling four aircraft in a big game,I think that's a bit too much and could lead to excessive delays and confusion.
I appreciate the look of a big dogfight appeal but multi player games with people all trying to move and fire do end up in a mass confusion.
If you want players to have a wing man fair enough but Ido think the maximum per player be two aircraft.
Just my 2d

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I also have a couple of aircraft to utilise, however controlling four aircraft in a big game,I think that's a bit too much and could lead to excessive delays and confusion.
I appreciate the look of a big dogfight appeal but multi player games with people all trying to move and fire do end up in a mass confusion.
If you want players to have a wing man fair enough but Ido think the maximum per player be two aircraft.
Just my 2d

I am inclined to agree with Chris. There will be a lot to keep an eye on as it is without getting too complecated as this is an open event. The large dog fights are better left to games where everyone is at least comfortable with the new rules, and as far as combining the two tables goes I think it will restrict the variety of games too much.
I would like to see a whole series of WWI games played on the smaller table to get a regular throughput of public.
Whilst many people are willing to spend half an hour on a participation game, not many will give up an hour of their time at the shows.
Rob.

[David Manley]

I think the "four planes per player" thing was aimed more at the experienced gamers than the parti side of things. I've run participation games at shows for many years and I've found that the "One Hour Rule" works best - the game needs to be explained (preferably in 5 minutes or less) and executed in less than one hour, and preferably 45 minutes. Shows in the UK are not like the big weekend shows in the US where players are happy to play a single game for a long period (as they are there for 2 days anyway, and probably playing into the evenings). UK parti games need to be quick and snappy to meet the requirements of most of the punters - which is mainly about having tome for shopping, the bring and buy, chatting and lunch. Oh, and watch out for being the "dumping ground" for kids too Anyway, from the sound of it there should be time for one or two of these.

Bear in mind though that you don't have that much space. We ended up with a "mega game" (24 players I think) at the time of Aces event, albeit on a much bigger table, but even so it was cramped and confusion reigned, and that was just with one plane per player. You'll probably need some clever choreography to make this work

[Baron Rolf]

Right I'll have the 8' x 6' table as the main gaming area and the other table as the participation game table , and thankyou for the feedback as I need to know if I'm making errors , ok I'll scrap the four plane per person idea as we all know we could have a BIG pile up in the middle of the gaming area. So now on to the games themselves I'll reduce the games to one hour slots so the first three hours will be dedicated to WWI and the last three hours for WWII , each player will control two planes only not four as I originally said in my earlier post, the first game will be early war , the second and third games will be mid to late war. The last three hours will be dedicated to WWII and will be run along the line of the WWI games , I don't mind a tournement being run for both periods but I'll need someone to tell me how that can be done as I've never organised one before. If we're going to use the smaller table for the participation games we'll need extra folk who can swap with folk on the main table so they can get a game , personally I'd like to have two big tables so we could have both periods playing at the same time but we cannot have everything , I hope this is better than plan A but if this needs tweeking please let me know as I've mentioned before I'm a novice pilot but I'll not take offense if this isn't what you guys had hoped.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

How about doing WWII as participation whilst WWI is going on on the main table and vice versa, so that punters can see both elements at all times? I can be on hand most of the time as my eyesight problems preclude me doing much window shopping at shows these days. However, my knowledge of WWII is almost non existant but I'm working on having at least enough knowledge to answer simple questions by the show.
Rob.

[Baron Rolf]

Ok Rob we'll role with that and have the smaller table to be used as a WWII Wings of Glory participation table , and the bigger table to be used for those who want to play WWI Wings of Glory. And that makes having a tournement possible on the main table between the three main WWI games, I think we maybe getting closer gentlemen to a plan of action which is great news.

[Baron Rolf]

Well chaps I'm currently on Plan B for WMMS 2013 at the moment it may need tweeking abit but nothing is set in stone yet so I can alter the plan with any further recommendations , we've all got to be there for 9.30 a.m to set up in time for the opening time of 10.00 a.m which could be a real pain for those of you who live further away so if you want me to find a B&B or Travel Lodge so you can arrive fresh faced for the aerial combat to follow.
Plan B so far.
10.00 a.m Dogfight scenario using early war planes ( dateline 1915 )
11.00 a.m Ballon busters scenario with plenty of AA guns and Ballons for the Hun to try and shoot down ( dateline 1916 )
12.00 p.m - 2.00 p.m Tournament ( dateline 1915 - 18 ) players will only be allowed one plane each , you can see I'm allowing a wide scope plane wise and my reason for this is everyone has got one plane from every dateline so it's up to the players what plane they wish use against each other , I'd like prises for 1st, 2nd & 3rd places maybe certificate for everyone taking part in the Tournament , whilst this is going on we can close the participation table down so all of us get to show off our flying/marksmanship skills.
2.00 p.m We restart the demo and participation tables , the next scenario will be with the BIG bombers with scout support planes from the Entente side v's the dastardly Hun scout planes ( dateline 1917 -18 )
3.00 p.m Now for something completely different , I want to include the WWII element on the demo table and this scenario will be the Battle of Britain ( dateline 1940 )
On the day there will be a rota with everyone getting a game on the main table and helping out on the participation table , I expect we should in theory have a few games during the hour slots , I also think that both systems can be used on the participation table depending on who's manning it as I for one don't play WWII so I'll use my WWI planes to teach potential new pilots. I hope this version meets with your approval gentlemen , so if you want to let me know if there's anything further that needs adding please let me know.

[David Manley]

Only one thing. Don't be surprised (or disappointed) if you only get through half of your programme. As they say, no plan survives contact with the enemy, and for plans for events at wargames shows, doubly so. Just stay flexible

[Baron Rolf]

I'll not get disappointed if we don't get through all of what I've got planned , I just want to show off our fantastic hobby to the wider gaming community and finally meet my fellow pilots and enjoy gaming against you guys.

[Baron Rolf]

Right chaps I've made a note of who said that they're definitely going and I've got a couple of maybe's so here's my list of folk for both sides.
Entente players
Flying Officer Kyte
Boney10
Archidamus
Hedeby
Hayden ?
Central Powers
Guntruck
David Manley
Flash ?
Baron Rolf ( me )
I know that some of you would prefer one side over the other but that can be changed as more players let me know if they're interested in going and what side they want to fight for.

[David Manley]

Sounds good Just to make sure, I did tell you I'm a "possible" rather than a "definite", didn't I?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I may be bringing Christophe von Rogerstein along. I am just waiting to hear from him. if he comes he will help to bulk up the Central Powers.
Rob.

[Hedeby]

LOVING the idea of the mass He.111 raid that would look amazing as well

[Hedeby]

re- central powers - a lot of my planes are Hun (3 x DR.1, 6 x Albatross, + assorted D.VII, Pfalz, Gotha and 4 or 5 two seaters (actually I seem to have more German than Brit !!)

[Boney10]

It ok for Brits, I have 2 flights of Naval 10 and 1 of Naval 9 that's 14 Camels

[Baron Rolf]

I've not heard from the WMMS organisers yet so I'll contact them in the Newyear.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

They are probably all too busy with the festivities Mark.
Have a good Christmas yourself.
Rob.

[Kharas1]

I wish you all the best of luck with the event as between September and April my Sunday mornings are committed to coaching juniour rugby so I will be unable to attend until later in the afternoon at best. Have a great day all.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Might be able to make it from Northumberland. If I can make it will probably bring 2-3 other players too. Can confirm closer to the date, apologies for not being able to do sooner.

Neil

(Plus if I and the others can make it we have around 80 planes between us.)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Might be able to make it from Northumberland. If I can make it will probably bring 2-3 other players too. Can confirm closer to the date, apologies for not being able to do sooner.

Neil

(Plus if I and the others can make it we have around 80 planes between us.)

Good man, but you will never be able to handle 20 planes each!
Kyte.

[Hedeby]

Have we heard from the organisers yet? have to say am so looking forward to this

[Baron Rolf]

I've just spoken to Paul one of the events organisers regarding having an extra table , he said it was alright to have another small table to have a display of WWI/II WoG related items , we may have to see if any of us has a table that we could use , he's going to contact me tomorrow night to confirm the details so all in hand gentlemen.

[Guntruck]

I'm going to have to stay over Saturday night somewhere. Mark - any ideas on Travel Lodgess etc close by the venue?

[Baron Rolf]

I'll find out for you Steve and get back to you.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

OK good news the Good Lady has given her OK for my son and I to attend. So thats a defo 2. Sean likes playing allied, myself central powers. Might have 1 or 2 more, can confirm later this week.

[Baron Rolf]

To answer Guntruck's question here's some venues for those weary travellers , first venue is the Travelodge Wolverhampton Central Hotel : - 08719846221 , Premier Inn Wolverhampton North : - 08715279181 , B&B Wheaton House : - 01902428841

[Archidamus]

To answer Guntruck's question here's some venues for those weary travellers , first venue is the Travelodge Wolverhampton Central Hotel : - 08719846221 , Premier Inn Wolverhampton North : - 08715279181 , B&B Wheaton House : - 01902428841

Thanks Mark - still on the fence over leaving Kent really early on the Sunday vs coming up Saturday