What plane would you like?

[richard m schwab]

I was asked the other day what WW2 plane i would like in 144 scale, one that is not commercially available. I am on a Pacific trend currently i responded a Lockheed Hudson.


Rich

[Baldrick62]

Rich,
100% with you on this one: it's one of the great voids in 1/144 WWII aircraft! If you can afford it, Anigrand make an A20 and Ventura as 'bonus' kits for their Super Marauder, but despite its wide service in most theatres through much of the war, the Hudson remains unkitted. I'm hoping Peter's Planes might consider it as a future project, or that we might see a Gashapon Twin-Engined Maritime Patrol/Attack release at some point (Hudson, Lorna, Do217/He115/Ju188)?
BofB

[csadn]

I was asked the other day what WW2 plane i would like in 144 scale, one that is not commercially available. I am on a Pacific trend currently i responded a Lockheed Hudson.

Hudson's nice -- I don't think anyone makes a Ventura tho':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Ventura

or a Martin Baltimore or Maryland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Baltimore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Maryland .

But then, I'm one of those heathens who likes stuff which *isn't* extensively covered by every source on Earth. :)

[Baldrick62]

Hudson's nice -- I don't think anyone makes a Ventura tho':

From post #2 above - '... Anigrand make an A20 and Ventura as 'bonus' kits for their Super Marauder...'.

http://www.anigrand.com/AA4033_XB-33A.htm

There are three additional kits included with the XB-33A Super Marauder. First is the XP-71, a 'paper project' twin engine pusher fighter that never reached prototype stage. Next is an A-20B that can be built as a P-70A if one wishes as it is provided with the solid nose and under-fuselage gun pack. The third additional kit is a PV-1 Ventura. This can be constructed as a B-34 (an aircraft that was used a great deal for bomber crew training) as there is a plug for the upper turret and a 'glass' nose provided for this variant.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Hudson's nice -- I don't think anyone makes a Ventura tho':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Ventura

or a Martin Baltimore or Maryland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Baltimore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Maryland .

But then, I'm one of those heathens who likes stuff which *isn't* extensively covered by every source on Earth.

Hi Chris,

Shapeways now makes a 1/144 Martin Maryland, see Richard Sschwab's thread here http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...669#post161669

I have two coming in 1/200, and Helmet Miniatures in the UK does a nice Hudson also in 1/200, http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...l=1#post149450

Cheers,

Carl.

[richard m schwab]

Chris

Carl beat me to it but yes Shapeways dose offer a Martin Maryland.


Rich

[csadn]

Unfortunately, I have to leave out anything I have to assemble myself.... :P

[Rat of Vengence]

I would love to see a CAC Woomera. It was a twin engined attack/bomber designed and built in Australia in a very short time frame around the same time as the Boomerang, when it looked like we would be cut off from foreign supplies. It had twin remote turrets in the back of the engine nacelles.
As it turned out, we license made Beauforts, Beaufighters and Mosquitos and lend-leased some Mitchells, so it really wasn't needed. Oh the 1st prototype blew up too, which didn't help, but the 2nd was extensively modified and quite fast apparently.

Dave

[Baldrick62]

I suspect the chances of a model Woomera being a commercial success are about the same as Wackett's design had of being an operational success as a 1940 design without self-sealing fuel tanks by the time the CA11 flew in 1944 - none.

[Baldrick62]

Unfortunately, I have to leave out anything I have to assemble myself.... :P

For those without either time, skill or inclination to assemble themselves, there are always metal alternatives although again, still no Lockheed Hudson:
Lockheed Ventura PV1
http://jacques.chaubet.free.fr/us/0pv1.htm
Lockheed Ventura PV2
http://jacques.chaubet.free.fr/us/0pv2.htm
Martin Maryland (Armee de l'Air)
http://jacques.chaubet.free.fr/fra1939/0maryland167.htm
Martin Maryland (RAF)
http://jacques.chaubet.free.fr/angl1939/0maryland.htm

Lots of other 1/144 models listed, and while not cheap, at least you know the consistency of any quality issues. Worth keeping an eye out for discount specials from time to time.

[Doug]

Csadn with the Helmet Air 200 models there is very little assebly, for example with the Lockheed Hudson the only assembly needed is to drill out the holes fro the props and glue them in most of the other helmet aircraft I have made also require no more than that, So give it a go its that easy

[kaufschtick]

I'd have to go for a Douglass Devastator. I'd really like to see one as a pre-painted kit, or a plastic build it yourself kit. I've seen it available from the old True North metal planes, but I like planes with landing gear, props, and clear canopies.

Just my .02.

-Oh, I just thought of another one, the Vickers Wellington would be nice too.
-Also, Dornier Do-17 (I have the 217s)
-Be nice to see a P-40F
-What was it, an Me-210 or Me-410? I'll never get those straight, but that one too.

[Baldrick62]

Rich,

I know you specified plastic, but Peter's Planes in Australia do some very nice resin 1/144 Do17s with landing gear, props and clear canopies. He's also planning a Wellington.

http://petersplanes.com/avions/dorni...dornier17z.htm

http://petersplanes.com/avions/dorni...dornier17P.htm

I'd like a couple of Me410s myself, to round out my Jagdwaffe force. It's predecessor Me210 was something of a dog.

BofB

[Lloydthegamer]

I'd like to see an A20 in any form, in plastic/resin and available by itself instead being bundled with two other kits. The Hudson is a great idea. Also would like to see a Macchi 202 in plastic/resin. I know there is a Ftoy 202 out there, but finding one is very difficult. Lloyd

[Zoe Brain]

I'm interested in early war. For one thing, the A,B,E,F,G,H card decks all max out speed. There were plenty of planes from 1943 onwards that could significantly out-run Spitfire Is, Bf-109Es, P-39Ds, P-40Bs etc.

The Ki-61 (introduced 1943) is a bit anachronistic, the Ki-100(introduced 1945) even more so! Why Ares went with that rather than the Ki-43, I don't know.

Every other fighter in the game was in service in some version in 1941.

One obvious aircraft is the Fokker D.XXI. Others are the Brewster F3 Buffalo, the P-36 Hawk, the Ki-27, and the A5M.

[Baldrick62]

Zoe,
I'm assuming you're talking 1/200 rather than 1/144?
BofB

[Lloydthegamer]

Zoe must be thinking 1/200 cause all the kits he mentioned can be had in 1/144 either in resin, plastic, or lead.

[Baldrick62]

Lloyd,
True, which is why I was wanting confirmation. In 1/144:
Ki-43-I - BANDAI
Ki-43-II - F-TOYS
Fokker D.XXI - Kamide Koro (Resin)
Brewster F2A Buffalo - F-TOYS
P-36 Hawk - Kamide Koro (Resin)
Ki-27 - F-TOYS
A5M - F-TOYS
I've omitted other resins unless there is no plastic/gashapon choice I'm aware of.
BofB

[Zoe Brain]

I'm assuming you're talking 1/200 rather than 1/144?

Yes. 1/144 models are easy to find.

F-toys does a Ki-27
Reviresco does an A5M (and a P-36)
True North/Old Glory does a Fokker D.XXI (and an A5M and Buffalo)

[Baldrick62]

Sorry, no joy.

[csadn]

Csadn with the Helmet Air 200 models there is very little assebly, for example with the Lockheed Hudson the only assembly needed is to drill out the holes fro the props and glue them in most of the other helmet aircraft I have made also require no more than that, So give it a go its that easy

This would require: A drill (I don't have); some glue (I'm too clumsy to use); and hands which don't shake (mine do).

Also: ATM I can't afford them. (Unfortunately, I understand all-too-well "all warfare is economic". :) )

-What was it, an Me-210 or Me-410? I'll never get those straight, but that one too.

Both existed, tho' as noted, the -210 was a PoS (serious instability in yaw, and pitch; plus a tendency to spin at the drop of a hat); byt the time all the flaws were dealt with, a new designation was warranted.

[Baldrick62]

I'd like to see an A20 in any form, in plastic/resin and available by itself instead being bundled with two other kits.

I wish I understood how ANIGRAND's business model works: make a really expensive model of a prototype aircraft (if it even got past the drawing board), and bundle it with smaller kist which sometimes follow a theme (A20, PV1 good, but what's the XP71 doing in there, when you could have say, a Hudson) and then sell for a price that anyone who only wants one or two of the 'bonus' kits and not the experimental white elephant will consider extortionate.

There's a guy in the Czech Republic who sells some of the bonus kits on their own on eBay, (under what arrangement, if any with ANIGRAND I don't know) but he doesn't have the A20.

[Kugelblitz]

An Me 410 would be nice, fast as a thief but lightly armed.

[Baldrick62]

An Me 410 would be nice, fast as a thief but lightly armed.

Are you sure you've got the right aircraft?

Specifications (Me 410 A-1) (from Wiki)
General characteristics
Crew: 2 (pilot and gunner)
Length: 12.56 m (41.2 ft)
Wingspan: 16.34 m (53.6 ft 7 in)
Height: 3.7 m (12,14 ft)
Wing area: 36.20 m² (390 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,627 kg (14,597 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 11,244 kg (24,766 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Daimler-Benz DB 603A liquid-cooled V12 engine, 1,750 PS (1,726 hp, 1,287 kW) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 624 km/h (388 mph)
Range: 2,300 km (1,400 mi) combat
Service ceiling: 10,000 m (32,800 ft)
Armament
Guns:
2 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns with 1,000 rpg, firing forward
2 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons with 350 rpg, firing forward
2 × 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine guns with 500 rpg, each firing rearward from FDSL 131/1B remote-operated turret, one per side
Bombs: up to 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) of disposable stores

By 1944, 388mph isn't particularly fast, and considering you can up-gun to rockets or a 50mm bomber destroyer, I'd hardly call a 410 'lightly armed'!

[richard m schwab]

Zoe

Try flying the Oscar once. One game and you will understand the pilot quality wasted in the KI-43. I collected three old ARII 144 kits of the Oscar. Built them and waited for their first game. They lasted four turns against a P-40 and a P-39 not an event i wish to repeat.


Rich

[richard m schwab]

Baldrick

An A-20 would be a nice addition.


Rich

[Lloydthegamer]

Is Anigrand still in business? I have to admit it is a new company to me.

[Baldrick62]

Is Anigrand still in business? I have to admit it is a new company to me.

http://www.anigrand.com/

Their latest update is 27 Jun 2012, with a 1/144 Short Stirling and a bunch of 1945 Japanese experimental prototypes, so I'd say they're still in business.

[Lloydthegamer]

Yeah, I just did a search and found them also. They're not asking much for their models, are they? They have some smaller kits mixed in there that would probably sell well as stand alone, what a clumsy way of doing business.

[Baldrick62]

As they've been going for about 10 years, it obviously works for them, but I'm damned if I know how. Very frustrating to be able to see that the A20 exists but not be able to get hold of some of them!

Not completely up to date, but here's a partial list of all those beautiful and/or bizarre bonus kits that are out of reach.

http://ike.egoism.jp/SoraIke/html%20...d_Kit_List.htm

[richard m schwab]

I came across an old E bay offer someone was selling the extras out of Anigrand kits. The US East coast dealer of Anigrand was forced out of business. He ran it out of his garage at home. He came to all the model meets and shows and gave a good discount. He was asked the same questions about how they packaged the 144 scale line. His answer was he did not know!!
He would still be selling Anigrand and his other lines, but he and his wife had to decide which home business they wanted to keep. The State of Maryland was taxing them out of business. They had to close one and she was bringing in more income!

Rich

[pbhawkin]

Hi Baldrick,
I have Arnold's (owner from Anigrand) to recast his smaller planes and sell them! BUT to be honest it is easier to start from scratch as this allows me control over how the parts breakdown and also detail levels etc. I have redone the Fw189 from him and made it into the more common 'A' model rather than the ground attack 'B' model that it was originally. I have also done the grumman 'Duck' as it fitted in with what I collect but it is a pain to mold and cast! Besides I am interested in making planes that are not made by others!
The Ventura is too different from Hudson to make a recast worthwhile and so a new master would be better.
I also have a arrangement with jacques from Creation Chaubet (mentioned in your post #10 above) and he has some of my models that he makes in white metal (late298, vengeance and Kingfisher) and I have some of his (vindicator, Jake, Dewoitine HD780, but I haven't made molds for them).

[Baldrick62]

G'Day Peter,

Thanks for the explanation, which all makes sense. I understand what you mean about the Ventura/Hudson too: I looked at trying to do a conversion of the ANIGRAND kit, but the similarities are outweighed by the differences. I look forward to your recently announced Blenheim I/IV which will fill a major void in early war aircraft useable in most theatres (Europe, Med, North Africa, SE Asia, CBI). Good to see the Fairey Battle polling well too!

Any forecast on decal sets for the Beaufort and Do17Z?

Go the Mudgee Dragons!

BofB

[Lloydthegamer]

Peter, that was a very interesting posting about the Anigrand kits. Do you have permission to cast all of his smaller planes, like the A20, or just some of them? Lloyd