Giants blind spots and firing targets at lower altitude

[Gallo Rojo]

my question in a nutshell: what two-seaters and under what circumstances can fire at targets flying at lower altitude? can two seaters shoot targets at lower altitude at the rear side of the shooting plane card?

some elaboration: I understand that the Gotha rear gunner has a blind spot when firing at target at the same altitude that covers the tail of the plane (otherwise the gunner would shoot its own rudder). I get the part that it can shoot any plane flying at higher altitude. And I got that, thanks to the Gotha tunnel, the blind spot does not apply for shooting targets flying at lower altitude that are right behind (in what would be the tail blind-spot at same altitude), but can the rear gunner shoot a target at lower altitude at the sides of the tail too?

And what happens with other planes? I'm guessing that planes such as HalberstadtCLII and Hannorver CL.III, that had their rear guns mounted on a ring that elevated the gunner should be able shoot planes flying at lower altitude at each side of the blind-spot in the game (since they were known to be able to shoot ground targets from that position in the real world).
But what about other 'normal' two seaters?

Finally: what about front gunners? I guess Gottha & Capronni front gunners can shoot planes flying at lower levels, Am I right?

[diceslinger]

On page 6 of the Flight of the Giants rulebook it says "If you use altitude optional rules, the blind spot is only a factor against targets at the same or lower altitude; ignore it if the target is at a higher altitude." Page 15-17 detail the special cases, specifically the Zappelin Staaken, Caproni CA.4, Gotha Tunnel, Roland C.II and the Handley Page 0/400.
The Gotha tunnel ignores the blind spot when shooting at targets at lower altitude. So yes it can shoot at lower targets at the sides as long as they are in the firing arc. Targets at the same altitude are subject to the blind spot.

Other planes with rear guns can shoot at targets at a lower altitude but the blind spot rule is in effect, so yes they can shoot down at each side as long as it is in the firing arc and not in the blind spot.

Front firing plans all use the firing arc at any altitude.

Note that the special cases and the blind spot rules are all optional and I assume one can mix and match as they desire as long as everyone in the sortie agrees.

Hope this helps!

[Gallo Rojo]

Hope this helps!

it does! thanks

[monse]

I have been recently studying the various Gotha versions from G.II to G.V, and I have read that on G.III versions and the next ones a third machine gun was mounted on the floor of the rear cockpit to fire downwards.
When the Ares Gotha G.V miniature was released, I noticed this rear bottom machine gun but I just have been wondering why it was not used in the game .
Actually, when the Wings of War Gotha G.V card was released in Flight of the Giants set, the blind spot rules only concerned the rear top machine gun with no mention of a possible bottom MG.
Despite the third MG on the Ares Gotha miniature, the rule didn’t get any add on.

So, how could this third MG be included in the game ?
Andrea Angiolino has answered that way :

My consideration has been that the lower machine gun was far less afine than the upper one, so the cone could be considered restricted to the blind spot. Besides, it was manned by the same gunner of the other rear machine gun, that could only fire with one of the two.
As all machineguns firing only at different altitudes, its effects have been ignored in basic rules. With advanced rules, instead than giving complicated instruction to switch from the rear machinegun to the lower machinegun it has been decided that it covers the rear blind spot at lower altitude.
Gotha tunnel rule (included in WOW Flight of the Giants set + in Gotha box leaflet) : "If you use altitude optional rules, the Gotha G.V blind spot only applies when firing at targets at the same altitude. The blind spot is ignored if the target is at a higher altitude (because the tail does not block the line of sight in this case) or at a lower altitude (because of the “tunnel” the Gotha had in the fuselage that allowed the rear gunner to fire downward)."

So this third MG is included in the Blind spot rule that concerns the Gotha G.V.

Andrea might be right to avoid a changing position of the rear gunner from top to bottom MG : in case of the top MG jammed, it takes three turns to unjam (firing possible on the fourth turn), while a changing position takes two turns (firing possible on the third turn, but only to target at a lower altitude, as it is a bottom MG). So it would be too restrictive and would only apply in few opportunities.


Here are some informations about Gothas found in PROFILE PUBLICATIONS - GOTHA n115
Gotha G.III (page 7)
A third machine gun, mounted on the floor of the rear cockpit, could fire downwards through a large opening in the fuselage.

Gotha G.IV (page 10)
- On a G.IV forerunner, the rear deck was cut away, forming an inverted triangle, to give the rear gunner an increased downwards field of fire with the top rear machine gun.
However, the dead zone below the aircraft was still too large and the lower MG too awkward to handle.
- Then [next models of G.IV], the lower rear fuselage was hollowed out from the rear gun position back to the tail.
A small triangular opening in the top deck allowed the rear gunner to shoot down with the top MG.
If he had time (or a fourth crew member), he could use the third MG mounted on the floor.
The tunnel provided a far larger field of fire for both top and bottom guns, and was easier to use than the simple opening in the G.III.





For a use of the miniature as a G.III version or the G.IV forerunner model (with a simple opening in the lower fuselage, like the picture below could refer to), we could imagine a restricted use of this lower machine gun to fire to target at lower altitude and consider that the blind spot should apply shooting at lower altitude as the dead zone below the aircraft was still too large.

[milcoll73]

great research monse!