Spitfires from the expansion pack "Legends" question.

[Lord_Ninja]

I have been trying to get a set of the Spitfire expansion pack for a quick minute, but having no luck I am asking if there is a cannon armed version in the pack. If so would someone kindly tell me it's stats? I am trying to modify one of the minis to represent a cannon armed Mk.II so that my flatmate can play it competitively against all of the other miniatures I have stocked up. A .303 Spitfire just doesn't do very well against the Ki-61KaiD for some odd reason.

Also a brief description (Or link) of the scheme would be greatly appreciated as I am also re-painting and vismoding the aircraft.

A great thanks in advance,

The Ninja


(P.S., I have no idea why I made this post so formal)

[Oberst Hajj]

Have you looked through Max Headroom's albums? He might have one done up.

[Kaiser]

In "Flying Legends" there are several Spitfire MK.IB and MK.IIB.
They fire BCC at short range and AC at long range.
MK.I Spitfires have 17 Damage Points and MK.II Spitfires have 18 Damage Points regardless of cannon armed or not. All are A deck.

[BobP]

Lucas check out Miniture Market. They have a few packs of Legends and other booster packs. I have ordered form them many time and they have been great.

[nillu]

Lucas check out Miniture Market. They have a few packs of Legends and other booster packs. I have ordered form them many time and they have been great.

Affirmative. They have best prices for boosters at the moment as they do clearance of these. Besides - they're very raliable store!

[nillu]

A .303 Spitfire just doesn't do very well against the Ki-61KaiD for some odd reason.

Oh come on! Spitfire? It can kick ass to any enemy available

[Lord_Ninja]

Thanks for all the help guys, I am starting to drill the wings right now to fit in mini cannons.

[csadn]

Oh come on! Spitfire? It can kick ass to any enemy available

When one's opponent can one-shot-kill any unit in the game, it tends to cause even the best opposing units to "not do very well".

[FrankJamison]

The Toni is a bear, but the Spitfire can outrun it and outmaneuver it. You should not be trading shots against the Tony with ANY other airplane in the game, not even the McWorther Wildcat.

When one's opponent can one-shot-kill any unit in the game, it tends to cause even the best opposing units to "not do very well".

[csadn]

You should not be trading shots against the Tony with ANY other airplane in the game,

There's a world of difference between "what I should be doing" and "what I am actually able to do". In this case: The Tony* needs only one shot, maybe two if at long range, to destroy any other unit in the game. The only way I am going to avoid that is if I *start* the game tailing the Tony, and spend 5-6 turns slowly pecking him to death.

[*: It's a fighter -- it uses the male "Tony", not the female "Toni".]

What we're seeing here is two fold: 1) The utter uselessness of the 0.30-calibre MG in air combat, and; 2) The usual oversubscription of cannon in an air-combat game.

[Herald]

I dunno, I used the Yak as a decoy and plastered the Tony in two moves with the P40, then the damn Riggaine finished me off the Riggaine!

[Lord_Ninja]

Later war fighters are also going to carrying heavier cannon to take down bombers. Ares should package high powered fighters (like the KaiD) with a bomber and sell it like a set rather then by itself. That way we wouldn't be having a bunch of atomic bombs flying around in one match against one Curtiss or Yak.

[csadn]

Later war fighters are also going to carrying heavier cannon to take down bombers.

The *Axis* fighters will -- US fighters did not generally use cannon (the P-38 being a notable exception -- but then, it was designed as a bomber-interceptor...); and British fighters used cannons because they never adopted a 0.50-cal machine gun for general use. (US fighters would not start using cannon until Korea; and then those were mostly Navy acft., who were assigned to ground-support, while the USAF handled air-to-air work. Not until the development of the electrically-powered Gatling-type cannon would US air-to-air fighters use cannon for their work.)

[BobP]

Good observation Chri. Pretty much only exception was the 75mm in the B-25. Pretty big cannon.

[csadn]

Good observation Chri. Pretty much only exception was the 75mm in the B-25. Pretty big cannon.

And that was for anti-ship ops. Even then, the more-common option was 8-12 0.50s.

[Naharaht]

The Airacobra had a 37mm cannon in the nose but it was unsuccessful for other reasons.

[CappyTom]

I've flown against that Tony only once and it had Karl flying it. The key I found was not to get in front of it at all. See how easy that is...

Thomas

[csadn]

I've flown against that Tony only once and it had Karl flying it. The key I found was not to get in front of it at all. See how easy that is...

Actually: No, I don't -- in fact, I've found it's nearly impossible to have a fight and *not* end up head-on to someone.

[Lord_Ninja]

Actually: No, I don't -- in fact, I've found it's nearly impossible to have a fight and *not* end up head-on to someone.

Sarcasm over the internet is sometimes difficult to detect....

[csadn]

Sarcasm over the internet is sometimes difficult to detect....

Yes -- which is why I make such extensive use of these: :) . :)

[Lloydthegamer]

Did not a version of the Corsair fly with 4 20mms in WWII? I freely admit to not knowing the answer, but believe some made it into WWII.

[Old Navy]

Did not a version of the Corsair fly with 4 20mms in WWII? I freely admit to not knowing the answer, but believe some made it into WWII.

No. The US Navy did not get to work on the 20mm cannon for its' fighters until after the war. The USAF were not interested in arming their fighters with cannon at all. They (like the RAF before WW2) prefered the high rate-of-fire that .50cal's offered.
The Navy created a lighter cannon round that raised the rate-of-fire of the gun making it an acceptable air-to-air weapon.

However, the SB2c "Helldiver" dive bomber did carry 2 20mm in the wings. These were not intended to dogfight enemy fighters.

On a side note, the P-39's 37mm cannon was a dismal failure. A pilot was lucky if his gun fired more than one round before jamming.

Jim

[FrankJamison]

The F4U-1C had 4 20mm cannons. About 200 were made and a few flew combat sorties during and after the Okinawa campaign. Apparently, the pilots did not like them as much as the F4U-1D with the .50 cals.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/F4U-1C

Did not a version of the Corsair fly with 4 20mms in WWII? I freely admit to not knowing the answer, but believe some made it into WWII.

[wargamer]

You do realize, that the F4U-1C was a ground attack / support aircraft, and not a dogfighter? And by deleting the 50's, it was precluded from air to air combat?

The F4U-1C had 4 20mm cannons. About 200 were made and a few flew combat sorties during and after the Okinawa campaign. Apparently, the pilots did not like them as much as the F4U-1D with the .50 cals.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/F4U-1C

[Old Navy]

You do realize, that the F4U-1C was a ground attack / support aircraft, and not a dogfighter? And by deleting the 50's, it was precluded from air to air combat?

I disagree with that. Yes, the USN & USMC took ground-support seriously, that didn't preclude their fighter-bombers from engaging in air-to-air combat. The pilots were trained and expected to do both types of missions. So their aircraft were designed as such.

Jim

[csadn]

http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/F4U-1C

"Despite the remarkable power of the 20mm cannon the weapons were not well-received. The US-built version of the Hispano 20mm was notoriously unreliable. Additionally, some early 1Cs suffered from gun jams at higher altitudes until improved deicers for the guns could be installed. Changes made for the M2 version were insufficient to rectify all the problems, however when it worked the Hispano was a powerful weapons system and gave the 1C a massive punch that made her superb as a strike aircraft due to the effectiveness of the 20mm against more hardened targets on the ground. In the air the general fragility of the Corsair's Japanese opponents made the increased power of the 20mm unnecessary, and most pilots preferred the more reliable and still potent Browning .50cal due to its higher rate of fire and larger ammunition load. The increased mass of the cannon and its ammunition also impacted performance, and the 1C was the least maneuverable of the main Corsair variants. "

So air-to-air wasn't "precluded" by rule -- it was precluded because it wasn't any good at it. (Gee, where have I seen *that* statement before? >;) )