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Thread: Fokker E.III (with wire braced wings)

  1. #1

    Angry Fokker E.III (with wire braced wings)

    Flyboys and Flygirls,

    In another thread, I wondered if I should finish the three Fokker E.III I was building with or without the wing bracing wires.

    Although it was rather a rhetorical question, several people answered that, yes, I should put the wires in.

    So I did! But only for ONE plane for now...

    Here's the picture if the plane from Reviresco


    I wasn't going to use solid rods or even yarn, but wanted to use real steel wire for more realism.
    For this, I needed to modify the support structure somewhat to permit 4 strands of wire to pass through.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The work was extremely difficult, as for each and every wire, you need to "thread a needle" twice. The problem being that, due to some drugs I need to take, my hands tend to have a slight tremor...

    This is the final result:
    From then top
    Click image for larger version. 

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    From the front
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    It's quite difficult, if not impossible to really tighten the wire. As it is, the wire has been tightened as far as I dared to without actually breaking the model. The thing is, the darned wire will retain the last form (bends) it got before.


    For comparison purposes, some pictures of the three Fokker E.III together:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think I'll wire up the two others, just not right now...

    This is what I used:
    • Blood, sweat & tears
    • A rather considerable amount of swearwords
    • A 40 cm strand of 0.1 mm steel wire
    • A bit of 6mm masking tape to hold the wire before glueing
    • Two micro-drops of Zap-a-Gap
    • A pair of very sharp scissors (nails)
    • About 1:30 of my time



  2. #2

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    Hi, Petitbilbo.
    Very nice work indeed (b,s&t! - yes, that must have been a workload). But I would suggest you left the birdies without such rigging. Remember the scale. If you rescale the rigging by 1:144 it wouldn' be visible at all I made the rigging with my 1:72 EIII model using my wife's hair (not the whole thing, I swear!) and I was not completely satisfied with the result. You saw that model, it's here: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...Eindecker-1-72

    So take the Fokkers to the skies and report some actions!

  3. #3

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    Hi Andrzej (had a friend called Andrzej, we was from Białystok)

    yes, I've done the math before too: the real thing was about 6mm accross.
    Now, 6/144= 0.04

    Mine is 0.1, so it's about 2.5 times what it should be.

    But still, if you compare mine with the picture from Reviresco...


  4. #4

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    I'm impressed, Bilbo. Amen to that scale calculating

  5. #5

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    That looks amazing. Well worth the blood sweat and tears. I think do the other two as well they look so much better.
    I used stretched plastic sprue for my Eindekkers, Bristol and Morane. I didn't do all the bracing wires just the outside ones. See in my albums. I have to replace them every now and then when they break. My Eindekkers are converts from the Fokker dr1 revel kit and are made from plastic so plastic wires seemed the right way to go. The Bristol and Morane are scratch builds.
    Linz

  6. #6

    Thumbs up

    Yes it certainly looks better than the Revesco model. That one looks like the Wings were warped with Bridge Girders!

  7. #7

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    I have never tried rigging... Even on the 1/72nd scale models it seemed lke it was unnecessary... but on the E.III it seems as if something is "missing" without it. So my question is, is there a monfilament line out there that is as small or smaller than the wire you used... and would that perhaps be a better choice for the rigging? Any experts?

    Bilbo your paint jobs are great... I am jealous that you have three E.III's and I don't!
    Ken Head - "The Cowman"
    “You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.” Robin Williams

  8. #8

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    Yes, and you can find it in Wal Mart! It's their own brand and it's called 'invisible thread' - actually a fine nylon filament like fishing line and about the thickness of a human hair

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cowman View Post
    Bilbo your paint jobs are great... I am jealous that you have three E.III's and I don't!
    Sorry, but I can't accept the praise here!
    The 'paint job' you see is actually a 'decal job': the wings (one decal for both sides, not easy the wrap around) and the fuselage (4 decals, one for each side)
    For that, Reviresco is really good!

    But you need a steady hand to place them, as even the wholes in the wing (for wiring) are marked on the decal.
    Microsol and Microset are your friends for such a task!

    All in all, it's a fun model to build, it's just the rigging that's a b!tch...

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Ross View Post
    Yes, and you can find it in Wal Mart! It's their own brand and it's called 'invisible thread' - actually a fine nylon filament like fishing line and about the thickness of a human hair
    Yep, and then, after the rigging, you still need to *paint* the 'wires'.

    Even more fun! (NOT!)

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cowman View Post
    I have never tried rigging... Even on the 1/72nd scale models it seemed lke it was unnecessary... but on the E.III it seems as if something is "missing" without it. So my question is, is there a monfilament line out there that is as small or smaller than the wire you used... and would that perhaps be a better choice for the rigging? Any experts?

    Bilbo your paint jobs are great... I am jealous that you have three E.III's and I don't!
    I heard that some model makers use a spare plastic model tree (frame) and heat it over a candle flame, making a loooong and very tiny rigging wires out of it. I have never tried it myself, though.

  12. #12

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    I have used stretched sprue for wiring in the past, but not to the scale Bilbo did ( amazing job by the way ) an it works pretty well. you need to practice a bit (and watch out not to burn you're fingers ) but it is feasable.

  13. #13

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    A very fine piece of work Bilbo. Your decalling also looks superb.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  14. #14

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    Superb effort there.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  15. #15

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    Nicely done no matter what Bilbo. You are a better man than me, I have left the rigging off my two EIII. WE shall see what Nexus do when they finally release the early war stuff

  16. #16

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    Thanks for all those nice comments!
    (I'm no worthy, I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy!)


  17. #17

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    Very nicely done. And we are all a where of the second one.

    Tom

  18. #18

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    Hey Bilbo , just a though, have you tried some thin plastic rod for the bracing wires ?

  19. #19

  20. #20

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    Good job! I agree, the EIII really seems to "need" the rigging to look right. You have gone above and beyond the call of duty on this one!

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boney10 View Post
    Hey Bilbo , just a though, have you tried some thin plastic rod for the bracing wires ?
    As thin as the 0.1mm wire I used?

    I think the Reviresco picture shows one with plastic rods.

    The thing with heated sprues is that you *can* get very fine 'wires', but you *never* get exactly the same girth twice.
    This is less of a problem for models in 1/32 or 1/48 scale, but here at 1/144, you would see the difference immediately.

    Plus the fact that plastic that thin will break under the slightest pressure and I still want to *play* with my planes!


  22. #22

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    Ill see if I can dig out some of what I am meaning, not too sure of the diameter though. Another trick, coat some cotton with pva glue and when it dries it should be stiff enough to add to the plane. however not tried this yet myself, I used it on rigging some 1/1200 ships, so not sure how delicate it would be for playing with the aircraft. Anyone any other suggestions ?

  23. #23

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    You might try the smallest diameter piano wire.

  24. #24

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    Nice work

    You might try real thin carbon wire. Little flex and strong you can get it real thin at your hobby store.

  25. #25

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    Nice work indeed Bilbo - like Chris I have omitted the rigging from my three Skytrex E.III's

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by phililphall View Post
    You might try the smallest diameter piano wire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike George View Post
    Nice work

    You might try real thin carbon wire. Little flex and strong you can get it real thin at your hobby store.

    Thanks for the hints, but even though my electronics "bridging wire" is not the best solution, I'll stick to it.

    Piano wire will have the same drawbacks as my wire (retaining the "last bends"), but even more so as it is made of high-carbon steel and the smallest gauge is 0.15 mm (0.006 inch), half again as large as my wire (0.1 mm).

    I could be mistaken, but carbon wire is actually "high carbon wire", meaning a high-carbon steel.

    As it is, I find it "perfect enough": it's rather nice looking and doesn't adversely affect the model's playability. What more should I want?


  27. #27

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    Hey Cowman, Ever try clear fine sewing thread? For wire try buy a very small electric motor, take it apart to get to the armature and unwind the wire onto something else. Its very fine and strong. I've used it for 1/72 plane and 1/700 WWI & WWII ships also some spanish-Amer. war ships. I just built and rigged my first plane a French Breguet 14b2 using Guitar string. The thin 'E' string. That you cut into the length you want and glue into place. I think it came out pretty good. For the upper and lower rear stabilizer wing to tail struts, I used very thin 'Piano' wire, looks good ,I think.I will start posting some pic's. when I can. I have a new WoG Fokker E.III coming in the mail, love those planes, can't wait to rig it. Hope these ideas help.

    Fabric Flyer

  28. #28

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    Hi, I think your planes look great. I just finished my first build, a French Breguet 14b2. I used Guitar string, the thin 'E'. I think it came out ok. I used thin piano wire for the upper and lower struts between stabilizer wing and tail. Try clear sewing thread, I've used on 1/72 planes and/or copper wire from a small electric motor. The smaller the motor the finer the wire. Take it apart to get to the armature and unwind onto something else. If you get bends,kinks, try holding one end w/ needle nose pliers and either run your finger nail to smooth out the wire, or get 2 pliers and w/ a say 12" pc. stretch it out till straight again. I left my rigging natural color, but any of these ideas can be painted very easy. The Breguet was a experiment while I'm wating on some Skytrex and Revir. planes. It is a Mamoli, from Italy, not a bad model, but lacks big time wing ribs, they were very slight before painting and can't see them much now. I didn't want to start trying to fix the ribs. Lacked M.G.'s, only one for the observer, made a side FF Vickers,top wing Lewis and a pair of Lewis for the observer. Replaced the fig's. also.Plus absolutely no detail on the underside. Glad I only bought 1 Mamoli, won't again.
    Hope any of this helps.

    Fabric Flyer

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabric Flyer View Post
    Hi, I think your planes look great. I just finished my first build, a French Breguet 14b2. I used Guitar string, the thin 'E'. I think it came out ok. I used thin piano wire for the upper and lower struts between stabilizer wing and tail. Try clear sewing thread, I've used on 1/72 planes and/or copper wire from a small electric motor. The smaller the motor the finer the wire. Take it apart to get to the armature and unwind onto something else. If you get bends,kinks, try holding one end w/ needle nose pliers and either run your finger nail to smooth out the wire, or get 2 pliers and w/ a say 12" pc. stretch it out till straight again. I left my rigging natural color, but any of these ideas can be painted very easy. The Breguet was a experiment while I'm wating on some Skytrex and Revir. planes. It is a Mamoli, from Italy, not a bad model, but lacks big time wing ribs, they were very slight before painting and can't see them much now. I didn't want to start trying to fix the ribs. Lacked M.G.'s, only one for the observer, made a side FF Vickers,top wing Lewis and a pair of Lewis for the observer. Replaced the fig's. also.Plus absolutely no detail on the underside. Glad I only bought 1 Mamoli, won't again.
    Hope any of this helps.

    Fabric Flyer
    Lou, we NEED pics here!!!


  30. #30

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    Hi petitbilbo, I'll try to get some pic's. soon. Just got today in the mail 3 Reviresco and 4 Skytrex. I will be one busy little beaver. Probably will wait on some pic's. till I get a couple of these done and send some of those too.

    Fabric Flyer

  31. #31

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    Not to worry! I've got time... and patience!
    But I'm really looking forward to seeing them!

  32. #32

    Exclamation

    Hey Lou!
    Its about time you picked an Avitar for yourself.
    Just go to your Profile Page & you will see a box on the RH Side. Browse through that & you will see the link for Avitars & then you have a very large choice.

  33. #33

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    Hi gully_raker, I didn't see anything about 'Avitars'. I typed it in for 'search', but came up with the thread 'Accessories hacked', I think it was called that. Started reading though, that really stinks, some people are such creeps. I hope everything is ok and they don't do anything else. I'll keep an eye out for the 'Avitars'. Thanks for bring that to my attention. Correct me if I'm wrong, 'Avitars', a picture
    of some type or aircraft, to be put over your user name? Glad you said something, I found about the Hack and Avitar.

    Fabric Flyer

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabric Flyer View Post
    Hi gully_raker, I didn't see anything about 'Avitars'. I typed it in for 'search', but came up with the thread 'Accessories hacked', I think it was called that. Started reading though, that really stinks, some people are such creeps. I hope everything is ok and they don't do anything else. I'll keep an eye out for the 'Avitars'. Thanks for bring that to my attention. Correct me if I'm wrong, 'Avitars', a picture
    of some type or aircraft, to be put over your user name? Glad you said something, I found about the Hack and Avitar.

    Fabric Flyer
    Lou. . Sorry to use this icon, but I'm - so to say - a senior flyer. I've just used it for the first time in my 12 months service. Haven't you made any typo in YOUR posting so far? I made many of them.
    Barry just gave you a good will piece of advice.
    Andrzej.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Lou. . Sorry to use this icon, but I'm - so to say - a senior flyer. I've just used it for the first time in my 12 months service. Haven't you made any typo in YOUR posting so far? I made many of them.
    Barry just gave you a good will piece of advice.
    Andrzej.
    Nightbomber, I don't know what you mean by 'Typo, in your posting so far'. I didn't make a 'Typo'. Yes, Barry did give me some good advice. On my profile there was no link about Avitars. I don't care if your a senior flyer, so this will be my first time using this
    icon

    Fabric Flyer

  36. #36

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    Hey gully_raker,
    I found the 'Avitars' ! I started looking around on my profile and clicked 'Settings', and now have a 'Bristol F2b' as my Avitar. I'm glad you mentioned it, I was wondering how to get one. Nightbomber mentioned a typo and you were just giving good will advice. I didn't understand him at first, I thought he meant me, about the typo and didn't appreciate your advice. It was because you said, I'd see a box on the RS, and I said I didn't see anything. I don't know what his problem was, but its over.
    Anyway, Thanks again for the advice, it helped me to look around.

    Fabric Flyer

  37. #37

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    another option is called ez line, available here in Pensacola...

    http://www.bobeshobbyhouse.com/ezl.html
    EZ Line



    EZL00 Charcoal .003 EZ Line 6 feet $1.99
    EZL10 Charcoal .006 EZ Line 6 feet $1.99
    (shipping is only $1.00 for the US, and $2.00 for Foreign Addresses!)

    Spool Stock
    EZL01 Charcoal .003 EZ Line 100 Feet $12.50
    EZL02 Charcoal .006 EZ Line 100 Feet $12.50
    EZL03 Rust .003 EZ Line 100 Feet $12.50
    EZL04 Rust .006 EZ Line 100 Feet $12.50
    EZL05 Green .003 EZ Line 100 Feet $12.50
    EZL06 Green .006 EZ Line 100 Feet $12.50
    EZL07 White .003 EZ Line 100 Feet $9.25
    EZL08 White .006 EZ Line 100 Feet $9.25

    Last edited by wargamer; 06-06-2012 at 06:15.

  38. #38

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    Yep!
    I the mean time, I found the EZ Line too, you can get it in all better modelling stores.


  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Lou. . Sorry to use this icon, but I'm - so to say - a senior flyer. I've just used it for the first time in my 12 months service. Haven't you made any typo in YOUR posting so far? I made many of them.
    Barry just gave you a good will piece of advice.
    Andrzej.
    Nightbomber, Sorry I misunderstood you.I see you meant Barry making a typo about right hand side of my profile, not left hand side, so I could find the Avitar list. I do appreciate his advice, he was the one who told me of this site. And I do respect you being a senior flyer. So no hard feelings, ok?

    Fabric Flyer

  40. #40

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    Hi wargamer, Thanks for the tip on another alternative material for rigging. I like to rig and will try some of this EZ Line.

    Fabric Flyer

  41. #41

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    Barry, Lou, I hate to be the one who's got to point this out (don't want to be a troll), but the typo in question is your usage of the word 'avitar'.
    It should be 'avatar'...
    In Hinduism, an avatar' is a deliberate descent of a deity to earth, or a descent of the Supreme Being (i.e., Vishnu for Vaishnavites) and is mostly translated into English as "incarnation," but more accurately as "appearance" or "manifestation".
    Therefore, a picture that represents you on a forum/website/etc. is often called 'avatar'.

    <takes off his teacher's spectacles>


  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabric Flyer View Post
    Nightbomber, Sorry I misunderstood you.I see you meant Barry making a typo about right hand side of my profile, not left hand side, so I could find the Avitar list. I do appreciate his advice, he was the one who told me of this site. And I do respect you being a senior flyer. So no hard feelings, ok?

    Fabric Flyer
    It's allright, Lou I thougt you had pulled Barry's leg in the Avatar quest. Barry is one of my most respectful wingmen and I wouldn't like anybody to make fun out of his typing mistakes (avitar - avatar).
    Let me shake your hand and wish you many happy sorties here in the Drome
    And let's have some

  43. #43

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    Hi petitbilbo, Thanks for clearing that up!

    Fabric Flyer

  44. #44

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    Hi Nightbomber, I didn't even know he misspelled Avatar, I thought it was the location on My Profile page.And I would never make fun of anyone over a typo or anything else, I'm not like that. Like I mentioned before, Barry was the one who directed me to this site.
    So, shaking your hand back and may you have many Happy sorties also. and to Barry

    Fabric Flyer

  45. #45

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    Glad to hear that's all sorted out O.K. chaps. No one had to resort to single seaters at dawn then.
    Kyte.

  46. #46

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    I have to say, I hesitated quite a lot before posting my message.
    I didn't know if it was just a joke or not and I didn't want to pass as a f^ck!ng know-it-all.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by petitbilbo View Post
    Not to worry! I've got time... and patience!
    But I'm really looking forward to seeing them!
    Hey, petitbilbo, I have some planes I can show you now. 'Hobby Room'- Thread-- 'First Four Builds'. Tell me what you think. Had a time w/ mostly decals.

    Fabric Flyer

  48. #48

    Lightbulb

    Hi Chaps! Gee I missed all the To & Frowing about my Faux Par with the RH/LH Box ( gives self a )

    However back on the Braced Wings thing!
    There have been a few threads & this tip was given by Zoe Brain & has been used by both colbatman & myself to good effect for "Rigging"
    Just use Paintbrush hairs with a touch of Supa Glue to first the Pylon & then to the end of the Hair for the wing placement. No Drooping & no need to paint & they are nice & thin. Use a pair of Tweesers to position the Hairs.
    Sample jobs posted below,
    Now lets all repair to the Officers mess for a few friendly drinks.

    Click image for larger version. 

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Name:	<acronym title=WSF Morane L rigged A.jpg  Views: 53  Size: 193.9 KB  ID: 50256" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabric Flyer View Post
    Hey, petitbilbo, I have some planes I can show you now. 'Hobby Room'- Thread-- 'First Four Builds'. Tell me what you think. Had a time w/ mostly decals.

    Fabric Flyer
    Seen them!

    Nice work over all, but my personal preference goes to the Pfalz and the Breguet!
    The scarf on the Pflaz' pilot is a *very* nice touch!

    Kudos!

  50. #50

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    Monoplanes always look better with rigging I think. I am very happy with my Eiii's, which I rigged with a needle and thread. Pix in my album on my profile page.

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