Prague SummerCon 2012

[Nightbomber]

Radek! I'll bring my minis as well

[Watchdog]

I have the WWI Deluxe Set and the WWI Revised Deluxe Set, as well as both mats and the yellow Balloon Busters set.

What I can bring to the club:

Entente:
2x R.E.8
1x D.H.4
2x S.E.5a
5x Sopwith Camel
4x SPAD XIII
2x Nieuport 17
3x Nieuport 23
1x Nieuport 16
1x Sopwith Snipe
3x Caproni Ca.3
Yellow Balloon

Central Powers:
2x UFAG C.1
4x Albatros D.III
2x Roland C.II
2x Albatros D.Va
1x Pfalz D.III
2x Fokker Dr.I
2x Gotha G.V

39 miniatures and the balloon.

I think 19 or 20 miniatures are gimbaled.

[Nightbomber]

So I will supplement your set with some minis of mine you do not have in greater numbers: Dr.Is, Snipes, Rumplers, English 2 seaters, N 17s.

[Marechallannes]

Ok, so I don't have to care for WW I stuff except the Caproni Ca.4, my personal Albatros D.III and an Entente plane.

Think European/Mediterranean scenarios are ok for WW II. So I'll leave the Pacific planes at home and come with a few BoB and Italian planes.

[Nightbomber]

Ok, so I don't have to care for WW I stuff except the Caproni Ca.4, my personal Albatros D.III and an Entente plane.

Think European/Mediterranean scenarios are ok for WW II. So I'll leave the Pacific planes at home and come with a few BoB and Italian planes.

Exactly. We can stay in Europe/Eastern Front/Med theatres

[Nightbomber]

Well, what about playing a kind of tournament or a campaign then, Chaps, and then see (for example) which group (if any) scored the most points and/or who is going to be the best scorerer in our Con?
What do you think? We can work upon some rules of the tournament here (I have never played any, but it seems it would keep us entertained for some hours)

[Nightbomber]

Another issue: WWI or WWII tournament/campaign? Thinking about the Sven's mat of Dover...

[Marechallannes]

Basically, the idea of a mini campaign (with special rules?) isn't that bad, but we have to remember a few things:

Three nations communicating in English.

We have limited time, I think we have time for 2 or 3 missions for each WW I and WW II.

I don't know about the knowledge/experience of your polish squadron you bring to Prague, Andrzej, but playing WW I & WW II with altitude rules is very challenging, even for veterans like us. ...and I would be very happy, if we use altitude rules in our games.


So I think we have to keep it simple.

For example:

BOB Mini Campaign

Mission 1: Free Hunt
3 Me 109 vs. a mixture of 3 RAF planes

Mission 2: Bombing Radar Station
3 Me 109 escort 2 Ju87 Stuka to bomb costal installations
3 RAF planes try to intercept

Mission 3: Escort returning bomber
A lone Ju87 try to escape RAF planes
Me 109ers try to prevent the comrades being shot down.

etc...



To determine a match/min-campaign winner won't be that difficult. If we make shure, that everyone commands one fighter in every mission, we simply have to count the victories. Think most of us are tough enough to take control of an additional dive bomber.

Think we're busy enough with 6 - 8 planes on the table.

But it's just my opinion.

[Nightbomber]

Do not worry, Sven, my fellow pilots are capable flyers, although: they are not fluent in English (that doesn't matter, I'll help them) and we rarely played with alt rules.

I like your BOB missions.

[Nightbomber]

...and we shall try to open e registration for the Con
1. Andrzej (me),
2. Sławek,
3. Filip.
...

[Watchdog]

One thing, I, for instance, have never played with altitude in either war theatre so the games may actually take very long, please, take this into consideration. Plus, I have only played short fighter plane skirmishes in WWII maybe twice or thrice in total. I am absolutely unfamiliar with any advanced WWII rules, such as dive bombing, adding to the game's length even more.

For WWI I would definitely prefer games without altitude rules as they make the game quite longer and our time is limited as Andrzej mentioned.

[Marechallannes]

Oh Jan.

If you ever tried the altitude rules, you wouln't miss them anymore.

We use the fuel counters from DoW to show the altitude level on our plane boards. So you don't have to change, or count always the altitude pegs on the minis and you have a good overview.

I'll bring those diagrams with me:

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...of-Glory-WK-II

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...altitude-rules

They are a great help for WWI and WW II altitude rules.

Don't care for the dive bombers, man your Spitfire or Messerschmitt, follow your Wing Leader and all will be fine.

...or we stick a 250 kg Bomb on your Me 109. Bombing with fighthers is the same like WW I.

[Marechallannes]

...and we shall try to open e registration for the Con
1. Andrzej (me),
2. Sławek,
3. Filip.
...

...
4. Jan
5. Radek
6. Sven (me)
...

Jan & Radek, I hope you aren't angry if I name you here. Maybe add this list to your first post, Andrzej.

Radek, think you are a WW II Veteran, what do you think about this BoB mini missions?

Andrzej & Jan, would a good idea if we develop a few mini missions for WW I, too. In fact we have more options like a balloon hunt or a bomber mission.

[Nightbomber]

It seems we have 6 participants; it will be easy to form 3/3 groups of planes.

As to the tournament rules for a mini WWI campaign, I'm trying to put some suggestions in points here:
1. We play several 3/3 missions 1917/1918 period.
2. First part: Entente: Nieuports 17s, Central Powers: D.IIIs. Second part: Entente: Camels, Central Powers: Dr.I. This way we're going to equal chances taking into account different plane damage points.
3. No explosion cards,
4. No altitude rules (?).
5. Collisions when pegs collide. C damage.
6. Side scores: + 2 points for a destroyed plane, 1 for a chased off one, -2 for a plane lost.
7. Individual victories counted; 5 kills -> 1 ace ability to choose.
8. Mission types: fighter patrols. Dice will decide which side is the bounced/bouncing and distance.
9. Special rules: Pilot hit once: Can not shoot after an immelmann, it takes 4 rounds to unjam the guns. Second hit: dead. A player may take part in another sortie with a blank score sheet.
After agreed number of missions the winning side and the ace of the aces is announced.

I want to make missions to be play fast, that's why no alt rules. No exp - no possible downtime and for shot down players.
Please post your opinions.

[Marechallannes]

I'm generally ok with every rule. A few comments:

I like free choose of planes, because I don't care if my oponents have D.VII, Se5a or Snipe. I fly my Albatros D.III, Dr.I or the Camel.

Count only kills / no kill share, we'll find a solution for every situation

Give altitude rules a chance. We could limit it to Level 0 - 5, play a fast warm up round with altitude, it motivates to fly Dr.I and Nieuports & very important - limit collisions very much!

We could determine the victory conditions by sides too, for example: The first side, that scores 6 aerial victories, win. Respawn after 1 round from the edge of the map. You'll see this will determine the best shooter, too.
I like the idea to win as a team.

I would like to see a Balloon hunt and a Bomber hunt.

[Nightbomber]

1. As to not counting shared kills - approved. Only the last man shooting is the winner.
2. Let's try alt rules in the first combat. If they do not prolonge a game too much, we can use them for other missions. Maybe limit the levels to 0-4 (two pegs = 1 level)? Eight pegs make still stable miniature, we do not have to use any numbers. What about that?
3. Free choice of planes may strongly favour one side, so I'm against it but let's wait for others' opinions However, if we keep the historical line of planes, it may work fine (I wouldn't like to fight a DVII in a N17),
4. Definitely balloon hunt and balloon defence will be fine. But who's gonna fly a bomber/two seater? These volunteers may be left behind in the score list...However, a bomber may be driven by AI for one side and than the other (mirror missions). That would be OK.
5. Respawning during a game possible only when a player was brought down, not when he left the battlefield. OK.

[Marechallannes]

If we don't choose the planes for free, I favour a bigger variety of 1917 planes:

Fokker Dr. I & Albatrosses D.III & D.Va vs. Nieuports, Spads and Camels

and for a 1918 scenario:

additional Snipes, D.VIIs and Se5as.



Don't see a problem with a bomber or two-seater. If every player control one scout/fighter - we could control the bomber together or one of us control it as a second plane (kills by bomber do not count for this player)



Wrote Radek a PM for his opinion about the BoB stuff.

[Nightbomber]

Yep, that sounds reasonably. No objection!

[Watchdog]

I would like to see the opposing sides at least a bit balanced. If possible, I would like to see 1917 planes more than late war models. Since I own two sets of the official ace skills cards (one still unopened), we can balance some of the planes by using ace skills.

I would really prefer to play WWI without altitude. Frankly, I do not see the additional obligation to keep track of all the climb counters and altitude levels adding to the fun too much. What gets people hooked for the game is its simplicity and speed. As for the pegs, using 4 per airplane seems enough for me, using like 8 per airplane seems a bit too many to me.

As for WWII, I am almost a total newbie to it, having played it only 2-3 times ever, almost exclusively with basic rules. Again, adding altitude makes it almost scary to me.

And to finish with some good news, at the Grillhammer 2012 con almost two weeks ago I seem to have gotten some Warhammer 40000 players hooked for WWI WoW/WoG with my little WWI exhibition and one of them told me today that he would like to come to play with us on 28th July to try the game some more.

[Nightbomber]

1. Great news with the newbie(s), Jan. Everyone is welcome
2. Speed and some simplicity during our meeting will be of most importance (to get people constantly involved), so alt rules may hamper that effort - I must agree.
Well, if I'am about to sacrifice anything I'd sacrifice altitude, but - let's see what others say.
3. 1917 is fine for me with all the planes available then.
4. Dividing participants into two competing squads would keep everyone involved, I suppose.
5. If we have uneven number of players (now I can see a group of 7), we could adjust the chances trying to total damage sustainability of squad planes.
6. Let's start with WWI and see how it goes before changing to WWII. The WWII system is easy to grasp, Jan!

[Marechallannes]

I would really prefer to play WWI without altitude. Frankly, I do not see the additional obligation to keep track of all the climb counters and altitude levels adding to the fun too much.

Believe me - with your WoG experience it will be easy to add altitude. Dives - Split-S - suprise the enemy - etc.

And the best: You are surrounded by veteran players and don't need to teach everybody the rules. That's something I'll really enjoy - concentrate on my fighter plane (maybe an additional bomber) and have fun.

What gets people hooked for the game is its simplicity and speed.

...and the third dimension.

[Nightbomber]

Good point, Sven

[Watchdog]

Well, it seems at least one of the participants is going to be a total newbie (the Czech Wh40k player who wants to come), so it won't be all veterans. Plus, if there are other people in the gaming club that would like to try the game, are we going to tell them it is a veterans only session? At the Grillhammer 2012 con I had a campaign, ace skills and other additional stuff ready as I expected to have some games with experienced players, but I did not get to use any of those things since we were usually joined by quite a few newbies, some of them small kids, like 6-10 years old. I would really prefer to start simple and later add some more rules if time and player skills permit, even if we have to split up to allow someone to take care of newbies wishing to try the game.

BTW, altitude rules are not just Dive and Split-S (about which I have no idea how it is performed), it is also keeping track of all the climb counters and altitude levels, not only of your own airplane but also of all the other ones in the game. Using altitude requires switching to a different mindset to be able to manoeuvre the airplanes effectively (like to allow any shooting at all due to different altitude levels). I am really afraid that it would cost us a lot of time and we may not be able to play more than like 2-3 games from each war, if even that many at all, which would be a shame. We have the reservation from 12 to 22, that is only 10 hours and I doubt we shall play for the whole 10 hours. Time can rush really fast when you are concentrating on a game.

I look forward to meeting you all very much, but I am a realist and I am a bit afraid we may end up a little disappointed if we only manage a handful of games due to rules explanations etc., guys.

[Nightbomber]

Voice of reason. Let's make decision then when we are at the table there. Fun is the most important factor.

[Watchdog]

Voice of reason. Let's make decision then when we are at the table there. Fun is the most important factor.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Marechallannes]

So we can talk about the expansions, planes, game mats and stuff we bring to our meeting in Prag...

[Watchdog]

Just bring with you everything you have, you can never own too many planes.

[Nightbomber]

Jan, do they have there something like a "black/white board" to write scores and points with a chalk or a marker?

[Watchdog]

Jan, do they have there something like a "black/white board" to write scores and points with a chalk or a marker?

I do not think so, but I will ask them.

[Marechallannes]

Jan, is it ok for you to bring the two WW I gaming mats to our little con?



I'll bring the WW II BoB game mat, 3 x Messeschmitt, 3 x Spitfire/Hurricane, 1 x Stuka and a WW deluxe set with me.

Additional markers and other stuff for WW II gaming. Think Radek and Andrzej will bring a few WW II thing, too.



For WW I I'll bring the Caproni Ca.4, Albatros D.III, Fokker D.VII, Sopwith Camel and a Nieuport 17.



Can't carry that much with me. I'll travel with light luggage.

[Watchdog]

Sure Sven, I shall bring almost everything I have, including both WWI mats. Maybe you only need to bring the Caproni Ca.4 for WWI, since I think I have enough plane to supply everyone, unless you have some special paintjobs on those birds that you want to show off with.

[Nightbomber]

I'll have some WWII stuff with me, Sven. If you bring a regular cammo Ju87, I can bring one of the others. No problem.
For WWI - I'll have some custom painted planes among my stuff.
...and I hope to bring some prizes for the participants

[Marechallannes]

I'll have some WWII stuff with me, Sven. If you bring a regular cammo Ju87, I can bring one of the others.

Regular camouflage - you mean the dark green one...

Sure Sven, I shall bring almost everything I have, including both WWI mats. Maybe you only need to bring the Caproni Ca.4 for WWI, since I think I have enough plane to supply everyone, unless you have some special paintjobs on those birds that you want to show off with.

Cool! Jan, it will be a pleasure to fly your Hautzmayer's D.III.

[Nightbomber]

Yeah, I mean RLM 70/71/65 colours

[Marechallannes]

Marechallannes SummerCon inventory list:

• WW II gaming mat 90x140 cm
• WW II set of tokens/rulers/equipment
• WW II altitude rules game aides
• 4 x dice cup for damage counters
• 2 x Ju 52 (western/desert)
• 4 x Me 109 (western/desert)
• 1 x P40 US (desert)
• 3 x Spitfire/Hurricane (BoB)
• 1 x Stuka (BoB)
• 1 x Grumman F4-3 (UK)

• WW I damage deck holder
• WW I altitude rules game aides
• Caproni Ca.4
• Captured Sopwith Camel

Rear gun blind spot templates for WW I two-seaters, WW II Stuka/Val & WW I Gotha

[Nightbomber]

Wow, Sven!
Nice set of WWII minis (Grumman? hmmm... Pacific scenarios?)
Surprisingly small number of WWI planes! Should we get prepared for mostly WWII gaming?
I think we can count on our Czech friends as far as some accessories (like cups) are concerned - do no overburden yourself with such stuff if you do not come by a van
Mat is perfect. Game aids - cool.

I'll have some supporting BoB forces along with WWI planes (my repaints included).

By the way. My crew already has a training schedule before departure

[Marechallannes]

No - I like to start with WW I, too.

That's only a small number of my WW II planes, but enough for a few six-eight player BoB missions.

The Grumman F4-3 (UK) saw action in North Sea and Africa, too.

I thought, that Jan & you care for WW I planes/stuff and Radek & me for the WW II planes/stuff.

If needed, I could bring more WW I planes with me, too.

[Nightbomber]

Yeap, that's right. You do not have to bring more planes

[Watchdog]

I am going to bring almost everything I have from WWI, including the yellow balloon, 4-5 bombers (2 Gotha's and 2-3 Caproni's), and both game mats. I am only not bringing the planes that are still sealed in the original Nexus boxes.

[Kaiser]

The UK versionof the Grumman F4F-3 is called "Martlet"

[Shivaja]

Hi guys am going to bring all my planes

WW II (Deluxe Set)
Supermarine Spitfire Mk.I (Wright)
Grummann FM-1 Wildcat (Lt. Steiger)
Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-3 (Pankratz)
Mitsubishi A6M2 Reisen (Fujita)

WW II serie 1
Supermarine Spitfire Mk.I (Le Mesurier)
Supermarine Spitfire Mk.II (Falkowski)
Supermarine Spitfire Mk.II (Vybral)
Grummann F4F-3 Martlet (Black)
Grummann F4F-3 Wildcat (Galer)
Grummann F4F-4 Wildcat (McWorther)
Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-3 (Balthasar)
Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-3 (Mölders)
Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-4 (Galland)
Mitsubishi A6M2 Reisen (Kaneko)
Mitsubishi A6M2 Reisen (Saburo Shindo)
Mitsubishi A6M2 Reisen (Sakai)

WW II serie 2
Hawker Hurricane Mk.I (Bader)
Hawker Hurricane Mk.I (Van den Hove)
Hawker Hurricane Mk.IIb (Kuznetsov)
Dewoitine D.520 (Thollon)
Dewoitine D.520 (Stella)
Dewoitine D.520 (Le Golan)
Junkers Ju.87b-2 Stuka (I/StG3)
Junkers Ju.87b-2 Stuka (IV/LG 1)
Junkers Ju.87r-2 Stuka (Sugaroni)
Aichi D3A1 Val (Yamakawa/Nakata)
Aichi D3A1 Val (Makino/Sukida)
Aichi D3A1 Val (Takahashi/Kozumi)

[Marechallannes]

Perfect, so we everything we need for great games!

Here is a link for the altitude game aides:

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...explain-sheets

[Nightbomber]

Yesterday we had the first of our preparation meetings when I introduced alt rules to the fliers I come along to Prague with! As you see on the picture, Filip grasped the rules with ease.
I suggest we use official basic alt rules 0-3 alt levels (1 peg - 0, 2 pegs - 1 level, 3 pegs - 2 level, 4 pegs - 3 level) with climb counters.
It adds so much fun to the game!

[Watchdog]

There is one question, for Sunday, what do you want to see in Prague?

I cannot promise it for 100%, but if we go to see Prague Castle, I might be able to get us a little special. A friend of mine serves there, if he is on duty, he might be able to show us a bit more than tourists normally see.

[Nightbomber]

That would be a perfect opportunity, Jan! Sunday morning will be the best time, if you can arrange it If there are any troubles - we can understand it.
Frankly I love the whole place there - the cathedral, the golden street... - my family and friends will be happy to see the castle!

[Marechallannes]

I'll arrive in Prag Sa. 28.07. 11:18 h somewhere near the main railway station* and leave So. 29.07. 17:38 h at the same place.

Think my fist way will be the hotel for check in and then the gaming location. Pick up some fast food on the way and a few beer after the air battles.

I have no specials I want to see on sunday, but enough time.

*Praha hl.n. Wilsonova

[Nightbomber]

I hope you can join our group on Sunday sightseeing, Sven

[Marechallannes]

Why not?

That would be fun.

[Nightbomber]

Great!
See you soon!
Andrzej.

[Nightbomber]