Jammed Gun, or Guns?

Hi all,

How likely, in real life, was it that both guns would jam simultaneously? I am trying to work out if you get a jam whether it affects both guns on an ‘A’ plane, or if your A goes to a B for the duration of the jam? If the latter is correct, presumably you could then have your other gun jam on you as well before the first is unjammed.
I’m sure I saw something in the forum, but just can’t find it again.

Regards, Peter.

More often than you'd like from what I've read !
In game terms the concept was - if a gun jams you'll be busy fixing it and not in a position to use the other. In reality, of course, pilots did carry on with one gun & is well documented in various pilot's bio books.
This came up with those machines that use separate systems like the SE5, N.17 etc & this prompted Andrea (the game's designer) to post this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Angiolillo

Some time ago I posted a few optional rules here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1952...edback-welcome

One is this:
Jamming twin guns (A firing planes)

When you fire with an A weapon, that represents twin guns, you could jam one of the machineguns or, more rarely, both of them.
If you are at short distance, you jam a machinegun if target picks up a jammed Damage card, you jam both of them if he picks up two of them. Firing at long distance, you jam both of them if the target picks the 0 red jammed Damage card, only one if he picks the 2 red or a green jammed Damage card.
Planes jamming a single gun take three jammed counters. Each turn after moving, the player can decide if unjam the jammed machinegun or if they want to fire with the remaining one. If they unjam, they discard a token; if they fire they do it at B capability (and they normally jam this second weapon if a jamming B card is picked by the target). The weapon is unjammed if the player unjam it after three consecutive maneuvers. It is allowed to stop unjamming to fire with the other weapon at any moment, but the jammed counters are immediately restored to three.
If both weapons are jammed, they are unjammed at the same time after the same three consecutive maneuvers. No separate account of unjamming is necessary.
You could decide to apply it just to Se5a, Ni.17/23, twin MGs SPAD VII and the like.

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https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...l=1#post172629

I've jammed single weapon systems on SE's etc for years but just recently started to use it on twin mounts - I don't use all the above suggested option just simply apply jams as they come but it works well & is a simple rule option that keeps you in the fight.

It depends on whether you want to play a game, or a simulation, is my take. I love this game for the simplicity, and avoid all the games that want to be simulations, bogging down the fun with adminstration. I keep it simple, and a jam is a jam. Deal with it.

There is nothing in the rules about the types of jams. Some jams were just misfeeds or duds. Some jams were because not enough powder was in the round to get the bullet out the barrel, or too much causing the casing to flare in the breech. The first two types were simple for operators to clear, and needed a few seconds to re-cock the guns and check them. The second two were potentially lethal or impossible to fix in the air. There are a few other reasons, but you get the idea.

For me, I ignore all the admin and tracking. I keep it simple.

The type of jam doesn't come into it and, having played it, there's no more admin or tracking than the three jam tokens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flash

The type of jam doesn't come into it and, having played it, there's no more admin or tracking than the three jam tokens.

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Exactly. Simple.

I can see that players might want to keep shooting, if there is any possibility. S.E.5As or planes with separate over-wing MGs wouldn't likely jam concurrently, and they could easily keep firing on a B Damage deck, but for simplicity, a Jam takes the pilot's attention away from fighting, and clearing the gun(s) is pretty important. I remember one discussion that said it would be more accurate for the plane to fly only straights while attempting to fix a jam, especially if on an upper wing fixed mount (Ni.11s?). That wasn't factored into base rules, either.

Well it's an optional rule from the game's designer that's historically accurate and answers Peter's query, so he has a choice now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OldGuy59

I remember one discussion that said it would be more accurate for the plane to fly only straights while attempting to fix a jam, especially if on an upper wing fixed mount (Ni.11s?).

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I think that was me.

Not factored into the Rules? I'm not surprised - its omission favours the Entente, like almost everything else.:hmm:

Thanks for your thoughts everyone, and for directing me to Andrea’s interpretation. Food for thought.
:-) Peter.