Printable View
Hi all,
Just curious as to how T&T has aged at your club?
For my club it got off to a massive start with a lot of games being played but now has essentially gone extinct. I think it is because the gameplay got stale with the tripod players getting annoyed that they could never kill planes and the planes being annoyed with smoke launcher.
We play it occasionally at Entoyment still and have yet to explore all the gameplay. It was never a big game for us but an addition to the main interest of WGF; though we chuck in a game of WGS & BSG from time to time as well to ring the changes. Change is as good as a rest and all that.
We have been working in a game of T&T as a second game at our monthly Saturday gaming sessions at Epic Loot for the past several months. Several of us bought into the Kickstarter, and a couple of us are really excited about the game - and, understandably, a couple of us aren't...;)
Like Dave's group, we have not implemented all of the rules yet, but we plan to over the next few months. We have only played it with WWI planes so far, but I do have one tripod repainted as a captured one, and I plan to add at least one or two more. So we will eventually included tripod vs tripod and planes in our mix...
All the best,
Matt
We don't play it at my club - never did.
Our primary game is WGF, and this accounts for most of our gaming. Although we also have T&T, BSG, King Kong and WGS, they are only used now and again to add a bit of variety. Not to say that we do not enjoy playing them, just that we prefer those WGF miniatures and battles. I am not sure what the consensus would be for the most favourite other game. Probably T&T, but I will ask the others.
If only I had a club...
Even though I do "Last Saturday of the Month at the Museum - Wings of Glory", I am keeping this strictly historical. Well, almost. We have done Snoopy vs the Red Baron, and a Santa game, but it was still 'Historical planes'. I'm not inclined to bring Tripods, nor space ships, to do demos at the Museum.
Now, if there was an astronomy location nearby, I'd consider doing those games there, to attract new players.
Centre of the Universe - Dominion Astrophysical Observatory
At the club I usually attend we have not played with Tripods in quite a while. The members play a wide range of games and people also keep bringing new ones to try. We have not tried all the options with Tripods yet. However, when I tried WW2 aircraft versus Tripods, they preferred having a Battle of Britain scenario instead.
Haven't played other then at the conventions where Teaticket runs his games. Very fun time.
I drag it up to the hobby store once a month so we can play. We rotate games and have a Wings,tripes, sails game someone puts on every month. I have done Tripods the last few so next month is Sails. Problem is the store owner and I are the only 2 that own it, they have had Tripods on the shelves for months that do not move.
Well it is a shame to see it not moving off the shelves. I went to Hawaii about a few months after BSG was released and found one starter box on the shelves at the Armchair Adventurer in Honolulu. I went back there many months later and that same box was still on the shelves so I bought it. I am not sure why these fine products do not sell.
The product is fine and the games fun. It is the lack of support (Here we go again...sigh) that kills it.
Hum, well in my opinion my club members have lost interest due to the following:
The missions: We just need more balanced missions that allow for group games of 4 people. It is incredibly tough to balance planes vs tripods so I think having set lists of machines to choose from is the best way.
Tripods: Their rules need to be tweaked. We found that the tripods are just quite weak when focus fired and have very little in the way of offensive capability. Their heat ray is terrible and it leaves a bad taste in our mouths when the tripod main weapon is actually their smoke launcher. In practice we found that the tripods very rarely killed anything. In the latter half of a game the tripods tended to continually recharge and run away due to being shot constantly. It just doesn't feel right that tripods are easily outclassed by ww1 fighters.
So, I see you have been part of the discussion on the efficacy of Heat-rays, but you put into words something I missed in the discussion elsewhere (Link: Heat Ray - Hitting Multiple Targets?)Quote:
Originally Posted by william1134
Yup. I now totally get this, and that is because it is my experience, too. It is a lingering template weapon that is pretty much going to hit. Planes only need to be in range and arc, and they hit. Much different story to the Heat-ray. I haven't played 'pods versus planes for a while, but I really want to try the multiple hit option on the Heat-ray template, as well as the Burn-through rule (should it ever happen). I'm hoping that might make some difference in the offensive capability of the tripods, as they are, so far, just targets that get pummeled. The new damage decks* with multiple energy loss hits has really reduced their offensive capabilities, as well, due to end-game energy management issues:Quote:
...the tripod main weapon is actually their smoke launcher.
In-house playtesting to follow...Quote:
In the latter half of a game the tripods tended to continually recharge and run away due to being shot constantly. It just doesn't feel right that tripods are easily outclassed by ww1 fighters.
* - My experience was with playtest decks that had only one energy cube lost per hit, and that on special damage only.
What do you think would redress the balance, wider firing arcs for the heat rays, no recharge period for firing heat rays, double damage at close range?
Perhaps try limiting ammo for Human planes? Balance the energy consumption by Tripods with some limitation on all the bullets. However, that might not impact later war aircraft, with 500 rounds per gun. Earlier planes with drum magazines would hurt, or would have to reload occassionally, at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naharaht
The real culprit is, I suspect, experience with Tripods. All the veteran players know how to maneuver their planes, and get in the shots. Tripod players are all new to the game. Estimating where the target is going to be when the Heat-ray goes off is still in its infancy for most of us. Which is why I tend to rely on Black Smoke. Big, adjustable template, close in, where it is too late for the plane to dodge.
Perhaps reducing the "Zeros" in the damage decks is something worth trying, until we all have some experience, and adjust those "Zeros" as we go? That makes spending the energy to shoot more effective. Cause in a medium length game, or especially in a long game, the tripods are truly limited in ammo.
I am going to try doubling the tripods' energy reserves next time we play - the Locust will have 16 instead of 8, and the Scarab will have 20 instead of 10. The tendency for tripods to spend time 'sitting' to try and recharge while planes swirl around them knocking away their energy reserves is a tremendous issue...From what Mike has described from the play-test damage decks, the multiple 'lightning bolts' on the damage cards really make a difference in knocking out tripod energy reserves...
I shall report back on the results as we try this next month...
All the best,
Matt
I think the heat ray definitely needs to be made more devastating from what I have seen in the various AARs posted. (Mine have not made it out of the box to table yet)
Sounds like it is being treated like a single shot where it needs to be more like a long burst ( like a swath of heat, not a laser)
Maybe leave the template on the board for more than one phase like the black smoke?
Hmmm... Now, that might be interesting. First phase of firing, the weapon works as written. However, during the "Cool Down" (next phase) the template stays in the same position, and sweeps as the tripod moves (if the tripod moves. Otherwise, it remains in place). During the "Cool Down" phase, it does one card of "Y" damage (Medium Projector).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumptonian
PS: This would finally allow the "Aim" optional rule for Martians! Meaning +1 damage to the same plane, within the same arc/weapon!
A couple of thoughts I've had for helping the Martians, 1. recharge 2 energy cubes per recharge, 2. don't predesignate the heat-ray, fire which ever one you want.
I'm not keen on the sweeping heat-ray . Martians will fire one and then do a sharp turn swatting planes like flies instead of the point and shoot from what it sounds like in the book. But hey, it may work!
The Martians I think have two key problems.
Offense: The Martians really struggle to kill anything.
Solution? Remove or reduce the number of 0 damage from their x and y decks
Function: In the latter half of the game the Martians will have almost no energy and will spend their time continually recharging (not fun!)
Solution? Double their energy reserves / give them 2 energy cubes per recharge / machine guns only ever remove 1 cube
Since the initial burst of interest at the club we haven't touched T&T due to the above problems. I think if I can get it going again we will have to try out some houserules
Mine have the third key problem, they lack the ability to unpack themselves from their shipping containers . . . may need to sell them off to make space for my new hobby/obsession . . .