Actaully, it could be done very easily... if there's enough difference between say the "A" and "B" decks, maybe a slightly better "A+" deck for a ship with a better crew, and a not-quite-as-good "A-" deck for a weaker crew?
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Well, some do not have to switch services...
U.S. Navy Aviation http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/usna1910.htm
Royal Navy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Naval_Air_Service
Heck, I had to browbeat the Master of Avatars into getting me my USN Hanriot avatar (it was the only way I could get a plane which I actually liked, in a color I liked, and with the correct national marking :) ).
As to ship-crew-quality: Handle it the way _WoW_ handles sustained-fire -- give the firer +1 for any nonzero card draw.
Pictures of a prototype HMS Bellona:
...and a maneuver card with the ship:
Now that is interesting, and will serve to narrow down the conjecture as to the way the wind blows!
Thank you Mr. Sven. My complements to the First Lieutenant. Ask him to tell the Master to heave to, furl the sails and splice the Mainbrace. The Officers may then join me in the Great Cabin for a drop of Maderia.
Bligh.
From the look of this it should be straightforward for those of us with existing 1/1200 fleets to create simple gunnery and wind templates. Looks good. Mind you, those gunnery arcs look awfully wide!
They do a bit. No bow/stern chasers?
Apparently not, although several current sets of AoS rules ignore them as well. Given what looks like an aproximate scale of 1 gunnery point / card / token for each 10 guns in a broadside you'd only be drawing a fraction of a card anyway :)
Not necessarily -- in the later periods of the Napoleonic Wars (and earlier -- how much so, I forget), a sailing ship's guns could be pivoted, allowing the gun to start firing as much 45 degrees off of "straight ahead"; it required some amount of rigging to accomplish, and I think only British ships had it, tho'.
Ships guns could be trained throughout the period of SOG-N but the move to wider firing arcs was indeed an innovation pretty close to the end of the period and was achieved fairly simply through the relocation of the ring bolts securing the guns. (I had a reference to hand that covered this in detail a couple of days ago but can I find it now? no chance!). I guess you can also make an argument that it (a) takes account of uncertainties as to the exact position and attitude of the ship (I've seen this described as the "electron cloud" theory of game firing arcs) plus firing through movement effects, and (b) it makes the game simpler. And it is in line with WoW which has far wider firing arcs for fixed guns than you would expect if you were considering the aircraft as a static entity.
Well, I'm not a ship expert and the quality of that photo is not the best, but the detail level looks pretty good on a general miniatures level. You can make out details such as the canons, folds and ripples in the sail cloth, and at least some decorative wood work at the stern of the ship.
As a reference, here is a very nice model of the same ship (at least I'm pretty sure it is the same ship, my search turned up several HMS Bellona results):
http://www.admiraltyshipmodels.co.uk...lona_Model.jpg
For easy comparison:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/att...1&d=1320175921
You can see that the mini is cut at the waterline (basically the wood colored portion of the model) as we would expect. That makes the unfinished mini look a little odd "out of it's element".
As a prototype, I would not expect to see the rigging... so that fact that none is shown is fine at this point as well.
Still waiting for a clear picture :please: of a finished SoG model. :pint:
Odd sail configuration in the model isn't it? The aft mast doesn't have a main sail. The photos of the detailed model above show the ship with pretty much full sail, the "model" presumably is closer to battle sail but I thought they took most of the sails down for battle if at all possible (ie they could still maintain headway) the reason being to reduce fire risk, damage from debris falling, less stress on damaged mast and spas etc etc.
To be fair to the people posting the previews, this is the link:
http://www.gioconomicon.net/modules....ticle&sid=6051
There are also comments. In Italian, alas.
No, thats OK. Quite often they were not carried. See this for a good example (one of many)Quote:
Odd sail configuration in the model isn't it? The aft mast doesn't have a main sail.
http://www.modelships.de/Melville_Be...kgIMG_3493.jpg
The way the sails are modelled is in line with the way Rod Langton arranges the sails in his various sets. in fact the model illustrated here compares very well with Rod's. Some good pictures here for comparison.
http://www.rodlangton.com/napoleonic/frame.htm
Here's one (as the link takes you to Rod's main 1/1200 page and not the gallery - link on the left of the page)
http://www.rodlangton.com/nnimages/frigates.jpg
I think they'd do better with the courses (the lower sails) furled. I think this gives a better visual representation of a ship at "battle sail" or "easy sail"
Thanks for the link Andrea. For our English only reading members, here is a translation of that page:
Quote:
First introduced Christof Cianci Games Ares describing the birth and intent. The group was founded in July 2011, continuing the vision of Roberto Di Meglio: an Italian publishing house but completely oriented internationalism. After the collapse of the Nexus Games International, to find people interested in the project was, according to Cianci, a fortune, and enabled the group to continue the path from left to found the NGI Ares. The Ares Games aims to be international, and therefore its products are printed mainly in English, in short, the Ares is an "American" in Italian publishing. The choice to be distributed on our national territory from the Red Glove was mainly motivated by the enthusiasm shown by this young and energetic publisher, who was far more free in its catalog of games of a certain power as those proposed by Ares.
Frederick Dumas adds that the Red Glove is now active for 5 years, and then chose to want to work with a company like Ares, it would have precisely the complete catalog of products specializing in perfect style "American games". Working with the Ares was easier than expected, and the distribution agreement was reached very soon.
Further, the products will be printed in English by Ares, and located in the Italian Red Glove. A complete job, then.
Roberto Di Meglio instead spoke of the first games in the catalog, that is the basis of the first production of the Ares. Of course the game is the first War of the Ring (The War of the Ring, in Italian), which will be printed in its second edition by the end of 2011. Roberto WotR revealed that this time will not be just a game itself, but it triggered a whole editorial line, which provides some expansion, accessories (such as card holder boxes in a case that will also serve as an upgrade kit from first to second edition) ; Battles of the Third Age will be developed as part of strategy game, and is expected even a card game.
The second product is the basis of Ares award-winning Wings of War but for editorial reasons and trademark has now assumed the title of Wings of Glory. This edition will be full editorial support for the version of the First World War and for the second. Of course the rules will be fully compatible with all previous material, but new material is already at the door.
But the Ares certainly not resting on our laurels, and Di Meglio has already announced the next book projects, some even in preview.
First of all there will be the publication of Sails of Glory, a naval combat game based on the mechanics of WoG, already known to the Italian public (Gioconomicon spoke here). The starter set should be similar to the formula of WoG, and then include everything you need to play more than four ships (presumably two English and two French), and will be set during the Napoleonic wars. But it is possible that there will be developments that will cover historical periods prior or perhaps even later (at least until the time of the Ironsides). The game should be out for the summer of 2012.
The second project is on site Micro Monsters, the Maggi-Nepitello proven pair, which will match the mechanical X-Bugs/MicroMutants, but with further simplified rules and therefore suitable for the smallest, already laid out in several editions and in early of 2012.
Finally there will be a game system Colovini Leo, called Fog of War, an American war game but with mechanical tending to German games.
At this point it would be interesting to know whether the Ares team there will be any room for foreign authors. Roberto Di Meglio is quite clear: prototypes and ideas from many foreign authors are already being evaluated and therefore that any author can submit a game for Ares style is welcome.
The audience greatly appreciated the opportunity to have news about this new house, and took the opportunity to ask questions. First of all we wondered if in a publishing world that seems so inflated as to play the Italian idea of opening a new home is not risky. Frederick Dumas said that he agreed that the landscape is almost saturated, but that having the best games there will be no problems. Roberto Di Meglio has responded along similar lines, citing the fact that the Ares opens the dance with two pillars of all respect as WoG and WotR. Finally Christof Cianci stresses such as competition push to do even better and that the Ares is ready to give up.
But bad news for fans of other games NGI, as the licensing works for many less fortunate than WotR like Age of Conan Marvel Heroes or will not, at least for now, taken in hand (also due to the expiry of the license).
Finally some questions about WoG and SoG. Of course there will be full compatibility between WoG and WoW, and there are other interesting news for fans, for example also the distribution plan of the aircraft. Most of the classic aircraft (for example, Fokker Dr.I, Spad VII, Sopwith Camel) will be offered for sale for WoG, but probably out of the plan will become more special: each month will be put on the market a new plane with all its variants, as opposed to different aircraft.
As for SoG instead, the choice of the Napoleonic period was driven mainly by reasons of diffusion of the period (it is still one of the most played, if not the most played, historical period), and also by the fact that the naval war to 'age of sail is always fashionable, much of the modern and contemporary art.
Finally, as mentioned WoG will base set with four planes and rules will all be there, so the planes earlier, as read above, will be fully compatible with the new rules. Only the bombers in the package will have more rules and tokens in order to integrate their special mechanical properties with the rest of the game.
So the Ares overlooking the market as a liner just out of the harbor, with its big guns ready to fire, and see how manage to keep the sea and the storms that await the recreational boaters of the Sea International.
I add that in the same show, Roberto Di Meglio won the yearly Award for Lifetime Achievements.
The model looks very promising to me. I look forward to seeing a fully decorated example and am particularly interested to see how they handle the rigging or if they leave it off altogether. The masts look suitably fine. I'm very pleased to see a 74 – as there were five vessels in the Bellona class pus two other almost identical builds/classes. Multiple purchases of this one model and there's a fleet!
I'm not sure it DOES "narrow down that conjecture", FO Kyte. Not to be argumentative but certainly the maneuver card shown gives us a glimpse of how different sail settings will work with wind movement, but it still doesn't clarify if they addressed prevailing winds and having the weather guage in your favor. In other words, if both friend and foe have the same tpye of movement simply based on sial settings, then we are dismissing which way the wind is blowing and to whom it confers favor.
Also, "easy sail" WOULD have been more "battle ready" on the minis, but we'll have to live with it.
A thousand apologies to FO Kyte and everyone else more fluent in Italian than yours truly. Of course, "vento" is wind in english and they HAVE INDEED apparently addressed it. I'm so sorry for jumping to conclusions. Apparently, you CAN teach a 56-year old dog new tricks. Picture "sheepish-looking" smiley face.
Look closely at the image again:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/att...1&d=1320176003
You will notice that there are different colors around the outside edge of the card. Also note that the wind (Vento in Italian) direction is noted on there. If the wind "enters" the card in the green edge, as it does in this image, the ship is moved to the green set of arrows. If it enters the card on the yellow section, the ship is moved to the much shorter yellow arrows. When the wind enters the red edges, there are special rules that you must use.
So, wind is factored into it. It looks like it is simple enough for the way the game is meant to be played, yet will effect ships facing different directions differently... just what we needed I think!
I find the Ship stats interesting as well. Looking at the yellow section, it looks like it has a "crew rating" of 4. At full hands, the guns would deal 4-5-4 chits of damage (All assumptions on my part to the damage system that will be used). It looks like you can take two "hits" to the crew before it effects your firepower. The same applies for boarding actions... which I think is shown at the bottom of that yellow area.
Also of interest is the helm (?) with a 3 next to it. Looking at the maneuver card that was played in this image, it has the same symbol, but with a 6 next to it.
Of course you're right, Herr Oberst. I'm a fool. Thanks for pointing out the subtleties of the movement card that I completely missed. Obviously "proofreading" is NOT what I do to earn my keep. Might there be several lashes in this for my failure to render proper courtesies of rank to FO Kyte..........or do I appear too eager?
No worries on my part. I initially overlooked the whole colored edges as well until Andrea pointed them out in a different posting.
There is absoloutly no need to apologise to my second cousin F.O. Kyte Walt. it is all these years scanning the sky/ or seas in this case for enemy sail that has sharpened his eyesight up to such a peak of excellence. That and trying to make out a landfall through the bottom of a glass(and not a spyglass either)
Rob.
I must come to the defence of my second cousin Bligh here Walt. He has suffered from a very bad press down the years, not to mention Charles Laughton.
He is not in the habit of flogging anyone, but may be ameniable to loaning out one of the native girls from time to time.
For the uninitiated, the title I have chosen for Sails of Glory is Bligh. I thought no one else would wish to be associated with such a drunken reprobate(actually totally unfounded by the Historical records), but it seems to suit me down to the ground/deck/ floor of the Mess.
Rob.
Will there be bases and playmats ?
Well, with aircraft, it is possible (and in some cases necessary) to fly in a direction other than that which the nose is pointed (for ex.: Making a landing in a crosswind). IIRC, Lanoe Hawker scored not a few kills with a gun which was mounted at an angle to avoid the prop; to use it, he had to crab the airplane about 15-20 degrees while making his run-in.
And as anyone who has played gamed involving "spinal mount" weapons can tell you: Straight-line firing "arcs" render a weapon cursed-near useless. (I played _Renegade Legion: Leviathan_; my favorite BB was the _Venatrix_ class -- There Is A Reason For This. :) )
Re the sails: In some cases -- Trafalgar, for ex., which occurred quite literally in the calm before the storm -- a ship would have to pack on every scrap of canvas it carried just to make headway. IIRC, every ships had at least two sets of sails -- one for "normal sailing"; and another for combat. I don't recall which was which, but one set was of heavier canvas than the other (or should have been). So, depicting a sailing ship entering combat with its full set of sails isn't entirely ahistorical.
Also: The mizzenmast doesn't normally carry a course; esp. not if a spanker is carried, as the latter will block the air getting to the former.
Bases are going to be a must I think. We are going to need something that has the starting line and ending arrow to match up to the maneuver cards as well as firing arcs. As to play mats, that is a tough one. Unless Ares has a different strategy then Nexus did, I would think they would be slow sellers just like the old WoW mats. Those might not have been a money sink to Nexus since the distributors picked them all up, but those same distributors (and retail stores) my not be so keen on doing that whole thing again.
KiltedWolf, have you heard this one before ?
Click on the link below . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=MZ35SOU9HTM
<http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=MZ35SOU9HTM>
I have to say that, now that we've had a brief glimpse of the maneuver cards and the minis, I'm even more impressed with how SOG appears to be taking shape. I'm surprised by the meticulous yet simple details that they have designed into the game!! Ares seems to have kept the game easy to play, but not sacrificed a great deal of nautical detail to do so. Outstanding!! Sure, I'd like to see rigging (maybe the finished products will have it), but I don't see the lack of it as a deal-buster. (We CAN add our own!) :) Thanks again to Herr Oberst for clearting up some of the finer points of what we've been offered a peek at.
Herr Oberst, is there anything else that may have been mentioned that would be of interest to us? ---Walt