Idea: Using paratroopers in a Scenario

[Thomatchef]

After completing my two Ju52's I began to think about using paratroopers into a scenario. The Ju52 was used to drop them so this could be a sweet combo.
I'll try to described below how I think it could work.

First off are some requirements to have a successful drop.
1. If using altitude, the airplane has to be at level 4.
Lower altitudes will kill the paratroopers and thus resulting in a failed drop.
Higher altitudes will cause the paratroopers to drift to much and miss the target
zone.
2. The plane has to fly 3 straight maneuvers at low speed to be able to drop the paratroopers
Flying fast maneuvers will damage the parachutes and thus resulting in free falling paratroopers
Flying corners makes them missing the drop zone
3. The drop is performed immediately after the third straight maneuver.
4. The plane must fly over the target in order to achieve a red light (prepare for jump)
Not flying over means the drop zone has not been seen and if a drop is performed the target is missed (even if its not)

I made an example with pictures to clarify things a bit.

The start situation. A Ju52 flying near a target card / drop zone.
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Performing a low speed left turn in order to fly over the target/drop zone and obtain red light (prepare for jump)
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Planning the first low speed straight maneuver in order to perform a successful drop. In the meanwhile the plane will fly over the target.
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Planning the second low speed straight maneuver. The plane has flown over the target.
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Planning the third and last low speed straight maneuver.
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Immediately after the third low speed straight has been done, put the parachute drop card behind the airplane.
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Plan a next maneuver. This can be any speed or any turn.
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If performing the last planned maneuver put a troop card behind the parachute drop card. If the card overlaps the target card the jump was successful. This symbolizes the paratroopers are landed and gathered at the drop zone and thus meeting the objective.
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The troop card is now a target for the enemy and can become an objective for them.
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So this is what I came up with. Please feel free to give comments or making adjustments.
If you play a scenario points can be awarded for performing a successful drop.
If the opposing team destroys the troop card points are also awarded. To make it more difficult a time limit can be used. (for example five turns, after that the troop card can still be destroyed but will not deliver points)


This is the parachute card I made. I'm a fool with photoshop so it's not that nice. If someone can make a better one please feel free to do so.

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[Marechallannes]

PM the Oberst please.

Good idea Thomas.:thumbsup:

I have to think about this house rule...

Just a few thoughts: If you're dropping the paratroopers in this formation (long parachute card) - the landing zone has the same measures. They wont land all on the same place (regular troop card). I mean you can't drop them like a bomb.;)

My proposal is to produce another long card with landed paratroopers and lay this card behind your first card. This will simulate a drift.

[Thomatchef]

Just a few thoughts: If you're dropping the paratroopers in this formation (long parachute card) - the landing zone has the same measures. They wont land all on the same place (regular troop card). I mean you can't drop them like a bomb.;)

My proposal is to produce another long card with landed paratroopers and lay this card behind your first card. This will simulate a drift.

Good point there. But if real-life paratroopers land they have to go to a certain meeting or rendez-vous point and from there they move on to there objective or target. By putting a normal troop card behind the parachute card I simulate this. Hereby I skip the event of landing, gathering and undertaking action to obtain control over the target and suspect that the troopers will always gain control over the target.
In real live however there's always a chance they do not succeed in a mission, but since this game is a flight sim I guess ground battles or movement of troops on the ground needs to be scripted.

An extra idea could be that the ground troop card stays there for an number (5 for example) of turns and then changes to an AA-gun.

[Marechallannes]

But if real-life paratroopers land they have to go to a certain meeting or rendez-vous point and from there they move on to there objective or target.

By putting a normal troop card behind the parachute card I simulate this.

Ok, if you want to simulate this, there is no need to put the troop card directly behind the parachute card. The Fallschirmjägers will know in which direction they have to go for the target.

If you want to lay the weight on the flight aspect, you have to care, that the Fallschirmjägers land in an assigned landing zone.




About this AA idea: It's clear, that the troops will fire at strafing opponent planes. Think, an "A" or "B" firing troop card will just be fine... (take an "B" firing card for German Paratroopers;))

[Jager]

How high did the transports need to be for a "safe" drop? 4 seems a bit high. Also, since they are not bombs, do the paratroops take a number of turns to drop. That might encourage some of the opposing players to shoot at them (very unsporting), however.
Karl

[Marechallannes]

That might encourage some of the opposing players to shoot at them (very unsporting), however.

:eek:

Have to think on bird strike.

[David Manley]

The Fallschirmjägers will know in which direction they have to go for the target.

Generally the only option they had was "down". WW2 paratroopers had nowhere near the ability to manoeuvre that you see today. Current drop heights are typically 1000-2500 feet, and I'd expect WW2 heights to roughly the same. Watch "A Bridge Too Far" for an easily accessible excellent sequence of parachute deployments (yes, its a movie but they used accurate WW2 techniques to get the sequences right)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfv-19f8ZG8

EDIT - ah, I suspect you meant "when they were on the ground" (the joys of reading with a nasty cold and a pig of a headache!) Still, it was a good excuse to post the video :D )

[Marechallannes]

Yes, I meant after the landing, but forget to write it in the post.:smack:

The video fits perfectly.

[Thomatchef]

Mmm having doubts now how I should change my idea. The second large card seems like a viable option. You give ground troops more range to hit strafing aircraft but I makes "hitting" the target more easy. Thats why I used a small card. You have to plan all the moves before the drop so that you reach the target at a good range so that the 3 straight maneuvers will still get the troop card on the target. Playing this with fighters flying around will make this even more difficult I guess.

I have no idea for now how to implement the time to drop and land. What I now have is that the ground troop card comes active after the parachute card is removed from the playing surface (last step on the pictures).

[Marechallannes]

After a few thougts, I see no reason to involve the paratroopers in the aerial battle more than necessary.

Think it's unrealistic, that enemy fighter go for a free hunt vs. the floating paratroopers. They would go after the transports and the covering enemy fighters.

Even strafing actions: Mostly the paratroopers try to capture a target, that will be defended by enemy troops, so strafing will hit friendly troops, too. Additional, the paratroopers won't concentrate or rally at a special point, that there is a possibility to bomb or strafe them.

I first liked the idea, that the landed troopers fire at enemy planes, but now I'am shure that they have no time to do this, or concentrate enough firepower for a effective AA fire.

[flyingryno]

Ok it's a house rule its ok with them. How many paratroop drops ot the whole war. What 5 times? Why worry about it? It'll never happen in one of my games or will I be in a game with it. But its their rules for thier games.

Elevation Most where made at 200 to 1000ft varies from whose jumping to the amount of AA.
paratroopers were never straffed by any plane. Individuals bailing out of stricking aircraft, have been shoot at but not enmass paratroopers.

Paratroopers hmm not in this stlye of game.

[Thomatchef]

If you want to lay the weight on the flight aspect, you have to care, that the Fallschirmjägers land in an assigned landing zone.


I would like to lay the weight on the flying and making a precise drop. Thats why I kept the troop card in the small version. Do you have any ideas for making the jump more realistic ,presice and difficult?

Its not that I want the paratroopers to become an important part of the game, thats why I try to keep the rules for it simple. It's just a nice objective for a transport plane other than just crossing the play-surface and hope to survive. Its the same with a bomber. They bomb the target and you score points. Here you drop paratroopers and if done well you score points. I've not used this in any game yet so its not been play-tested. I just posted to hear your thoughts about it.

I'm now thinking on how to improve it a bit to make it more realistic and how I could implement the drift of the parachutes. The firing element of the troopers will leave the rule I guess and this way the enemy will not need to strafe them. The enemy must prevent the drop by destroying the transport and will gain extra points for that

[Marechallannes]

I like your parachute drop card. To use a same size "parachute landed card" after the next maneuver, just behind the drop card, will be fine. Just to simulate a littel bit drift.

[CappyTom]

Great idea. Now that's thinking out side the plane.:p
:thumbsup:
Thomas

[Jager]

Was there ever a paradrop in a area with contested air sureriority? I know some of the Market-Garden drops came down on German units, and the Karkov (Russian) drops were pretty hot. But aircombat during the drops.....:hmm:
Karl

[Marechallannes]

You are right, Karl. Would be the exception.

But I can imagine very realistic scenarios wit AA guns, ground troops, etc...

Maybe an additional single enemy Hurricane that goes up from a greek/crete airfield to attack the escorting german 109ers and 110ers.

[Thomatchef]

I've been working on some better cards and a "landed troops" card.

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I've put damage and gunfire on the card but for now there are no plans to use this as indeed this is not very realistic. I'm now thinking on a way to make the flying an dropping somewhat more difficult because with the large "landed troop" card its very easy to "hit" the target.

About the air combat during dropping I just had a thought about a "safe zone" on the map. The first goal is then to reach that zone without being shot out of the air. From the moment the transport reaches that zone it's able to drop without being shot at. After the drop it needs to return in one piece to its base.

I'm not going after a war re-enactment. In the end its still a game and I want it to be fun and diverse.

[Doug]

Thomas you could always add gliders. Would have to work out the decent rate for them, what type of approach do they use, effects of AAfire (Crete comes to mind) the terrain the gliders are landing on (do they go belly up) got me thinking. I will ask my father he flew Horsa gliders.:hmm::serious:

[Thomatchef]

I've been thinking on changing the rules for dropping paratroopers. This is what I came up with.

1. The plane has to fly at least 3 slow straight maneuvers (using the I deck) before the drop.

2. The plane has to be at level 1 for a successful drop.

3. The plane has to fly over the drop zone in order to identify it.

4. The drop card is put behind the aircraft immediately after the last slow straight is performed.

5. After a new maneuver has been performed a landed troop card is put behind the drop card.

6. If the landed troop card is laying within the boundaries of the drop zone the drop was 100% successful and full points are awarded. If its only partially within de drop zone half of the points are awarded.

Again some pic's to make things clear.

Getting the airplane positioned over the target so that a successful drop can be made.
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The 3 slow straight maneuvers.
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After the third maneuver the drop card is put behind the aircraft.
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A new maneuver can be executed. The drop card stays on its place and a landed troop card is put behind it.
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The drop zone. Its a small airfield near the place I live.
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I play tested it once now, and its easy enough to get the troop card partially on the drop zone, but having it completely on the drop zone is difficult.

[Marechallannes]

Nice idea, but seems a litte bit complicated.

Why not mark the objective (airfield) inside the circle and give it an additional center marking. Same rule like bombing. If the center marking/dot is covered the parachuters are exactly placed (full points). If the airfiled is covered, the mission is successful too, but with less points.