Historical Free-for-All : Vilna, 1920

[Zoe Brain]

This scenario occurs - or could have - at the border of present-day Lithuania, during the Polish-Soviet War (and Russian Civil War).

A White Guard unit has been trapped here, by an avalanche of Red Army forces from the east. To the west, the German Freikorps mercenaries are coming in to retake the lost "Lands in the East". From the south, the Poles are trying to not just survive, but regain all of Greater Poland. To the North, the Lithuanians just want to protect their borders from all comers.


In the south corner:Polish

Pfalz D.XII
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/419/pics/29_1.jpg
or
Breguet Br14
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/48/pics/29_1.jpg

Mission: to preserve Polish Independance against Russian and German attack, and regain parts of Greater Poland in Lithuania.



In the center:White Guard

Nieuport 17
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/113/pics/104_1_b1.jpg
or
Sopwith Strutter
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/115/pics/104_3.jpg
Mission: to regain lost provinces of Poland and Lithuania, and to fight Bolsheviks and German invaders.



In the east:Red Army

Spad VII
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/257/pics/1_1.jpg
Mission: to regain lost provinces of Poland and Lithuania, and to fight Imperialists and German invaders.
or
Caudron G.IV
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/868/pics/1_1.jpg



In the north: Lithuanian Air Force

Fokker D.VII
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/111/pics/85_5.jpg
or
Halberstadt CL.II
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/421/pics/85_2.jpg

Mission: Repel all invaders.



In the west: German Freikorps

Junkers D.I
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/1128/pics/59_2.jpg
or
Hannover CL.III
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/414/pics/59_2.jpg

Mission: regain lost lands in the East - Polish, Russian, Lithuanian, whatever.


This is a free-for-all, with each side fighting simultaneously against the other four. Only in China was the situation equally confused and chaotic

Each of the (up to) 5 players chooses one of the two aircraft provided. There are 5 bombing targets, one on each corner and one in the middle. Any 2-seater can bomb 2 targets, getting 1 pt for each. Each player gets 1 pt for each enemy shot down, but loses 1 pt if the target they are defending is bombed (no matter by who, and once a target is bombed by someone, it is removed).

[Blackronin]

This is great, Zoe. And out of the everyday scenario schemes. Something a Polish friend of ours could take in his own hands. :)

[Jager]

Great idea, Zoe; as always, lots of useful pictures.
I'll take the Freikorps, please; proto Brownshirts, here we come :).
If someone wanted to "go to ground" in addition, check out The Perfect Captain site for a good set of tactical rules:
http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/redactions.html
Free rules for which the authors ask for a voluntary donation to a charity, not through the site either, by the honor system.
Karl

[Nightbomber]

I love it Zoe! A very inspiring scenario. You really captured the feeling of those days. What a circus of machines the air forces there had! I see you found some nice drawings form a Polish book as well.
Although it could be difficult to get the miniatures painted that way, I found many interesting cards of Polish and Soviet planes in boosters publishes by Nexus. Once they are combined, a scenario like that should be easily recreated. I'll play it with my group, definitely. Thanks!

Andrzej.

[Niclas]

If you're into that era, I found this page (http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v2/v2n3/whitfalc.html) when looking for Nieuport profiles (there's a nice Estonian one in there).

/Niclas

[Flying Officer Kyte]

All very interesting as i'm just on the last 20 pages of White Eagle, Red Star by Norman Davies.
This scenario is just right for me.
You are doing it again Zoe.
Rob.

[Zoe Brain]

All very interesting as i'm just on the last 20 pages of White Eagle, Red Star by Norman Davies.
This scenario is just right for me.
You are doing it again Zoe.
Rob.

I knew you were going to say that.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I knew you were going to say that.

Hey you just did it again Zoe.
Rob.

[Jager]

OK, this is weird; I could see these pics this morning, now I can't :confused::confused:
Karl

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Same here Karl.
Rob.

[Zoe Brain]

The server at http://img.wp.scn.ru/ where they're hotlinked from appears to be down.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Looks as if you were spot on Zoe, they are back now.
Rob.

[Jager]

For more inspiration, check out W.I. Boucher's site http://www.wwiaviation.com/
Specifically, the Polish aircraft gallery: http://www.wwiaviation.com/gallery-poland.html
and Estonian gallery: http://www.wwiaviation.com/gallery-estonia.html

And his Blog http://wwiaviation.blogspot.com/
He recently posted a number of pages on Polish planes:
http://wwiaviation.blogspot.com/2012/02/poland-1920-ansaldo-a1.html
http://wwiaviation.blogspot.com/2012/02/poland-1920-1293-morane-saulnier-1-mos.html
http://wwiaviation.blogspot.com/2012/01/poland-1919-fokker-dvii-part-1.html
http://wwiaviation.blogspot.com/2012/01/poland-1920-ground-attack-aircraft.html
http://wwiaviation.blogspot.com/2012/01/poland-1919-oeffag-d-iii-ba253.html
http://wwiaviation.blogspot.com/2012/01/breguet-br.html

Note that one of the Fokker D.VIIs is equipped with bomb racks; an interesting "what-if" for Plan 1919 games.

Karl

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Yes Karl!
All very useful additions to the palette.
Thanks, Rob.

[Jager]

If only I had the time (and planes) to paint them all ;)
Karl

[Zoe Brain]

From http://www.avalanchepress.com/red_star_white_eagle.php


In a possibly unique encounter in air history, Tkatchoff leading a squadron of six DH9s on July 6 near Melitopol, was met in combat by his equivalent, the area commander of the Red air force Peter Mesheraup, leading a pair of Nieuport 28s. After a 45-minute dog fight, both formations broke off. While some aircraft had sustained damage, none were lost.

27s I can believe. 28s????


Red air crew were clearly gaining experience. Unlike other fronts, the Reds here were aggressive. One of the largest air battles of the war occurred when two squadrons of White DH9s, escorted by No. 47 Squadron’s Camels, bombed Urbabk airfield. A dozen Red fighters led by an all-black Fokker Dr.I Triplane rose up in defense (ironically, in 1917, Collishaw had led a flight of all-black Sopwith Triplanes). The Camels were hard pressed, and although they accounted for five enemy fighters, the Reds broke through to the bombers and shot two down in flames. Little damage was inflicted on the air base.


The Ukranian front saw some of the most intense air fighting of the war. Much was focused on the see-saw battles for Tsaritsyn (later Stalingrad) from June 14 to September, 1919. The WPAF (Workers and Peasants Air Force) had the bulk of its air forces here, with aircraft including Nieuport 28s, Spads, Pfalz D.IIIs, and Fokker Triplanes and DVIIs. Collishaw gained the first White victory on the southern front, shooting down a Red Albatross D.V.

[Jager]

Resurfacing this thread (I think I missed the last posting; sorry Zoe)
It certainly looks like Someone was making a lot of money selling war salvage to the Reds. The ex-French planes I can see, and Fokker was making D.VIIs (and I think a 2-seater version?) in the Netherlands for sale to anyone, but Pfalz D.IIIs and Dr.Is?
Not that this sort of thing didn't happen after WW2 either.
With the N.28s: could they have been sold to Whte forces, then captured? What did happen to them after the USAAC switched to SPADs? Training squadrons, I assume.
Karl

[Zoe Brain]

With the N.28s: could they have been sold to Whte forces, then captured? Looking at other sources - For 28 read 27.
The Dr1 though might have been a Pfalz not a Fokker.

[Baldrick62]

The Dr1 though might have been a Pfalz not a Fokker.

In Aces' Twilight http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?8647-WGF-Aces-Twilight-The-Air-War-in-the-West-1918 there is mention of 47 Sqn RAF encountering 'a SPAD and a Fokker Triplane' on a raid to Tsasritsyn in Mar-Apr 1919. Given the problems the Luftstreitkrafte had with maintaining the Siemens-Halske III engine, and the very small number produced (12ish), I'd find it hard to believe that the Red Air Force was operating the Pfalz Dr.I.

[Niclas]

In Windsock Datafile 150 ("Phönix C.I") there's some interesting info on how the Austrians tried to hide material and personnel in non-military organizations and how a lot of planes got exported to other countries and/or used in combat between the nations that was the rubble of the fallen empire. Some production and personnel migrated to Sweden where a version of the Phönix C.1 was used until 1935.

/Niclas

[Baldrick62]

All very interesting as i'm just on the last 20 pages of White Eagle, Red Star by Norman Davies.


That was on 26 Feb 12 - how about a review of the book for the library then?

[Niclas]

Here's another Latvian profile and a photo:

5562155620

/Niclas

[Zoe Brain]

Given the problems the Luftstreikrafte had with maintaining the Siemens-Halske III engine, and the very small number produced (12ish), I'd find it hard to believe that the Red Air Force was operating the Pfalz Dr.I.Me too. I was thinking of the Dr.II with the LeRhone copy (110 hp Oberursel), or a Dr.I with a replacement 130hp Bentley or 150Hp Clerget. Those airframes would have considerably more life left in them than the Fokkers, which were falling to pieces in late 18.

[Baldrick62]

Me too. I was thinking of the Dr.II with the LeRhone copy (110 hp Oberursel), or a Dr.I with a replacement 130hp Bentley or 150Hp Clerget. Those airframes would have considerably more life left in them than the Fokkers, which were falling to pieces in late 18.

Given that according to Pfalz Aircraft of WWI http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?4166-WGF-Pfalz-Aircraft-of-World-War-I 'neither the Dr.II nor DR.IIa had sufficient performance to merit production', I think the chances of the Soviets operating any Pfalz triplanes are somewhere between none and Buckley's. A worn-out Fokker Dr.I would still have been as good if not better than a factory prototype which had been stressed and tested to near destruction, and had unique rigging and maintenance requirements.

[Zoe Brain]

Could be - but the Pfalz factory were producing Dr.IIs for someone in 1919, the Armistice commission caught them with one still on hand. It was a matter of finding a replacement engine of sufficient power, the airframe was good. Fokker quality control OTOH was a different matter.

[Baldrick62]

Could be - but the Pfalz factory were producing Dr.IIs for someone in 1919, the Armistice commission caught them with one still on hand.

Producing or storing? I'd be interested to have a read of the source: any chance of a link?

[Zoe Brain]

I only have a secondary or tertiary source from a post at The Aerodrome.

Basically the Pfalz D.XII and Dr.I were good airframes with duff engines (as with the SSW D.III and D.IV).

The much lightened Dr.II and Dr.IIa were underpowered - as was the Fokker Dr.I with the same engine - but at least the engines worked. Experiments at the Pfalz factory on Dr.II and possibly Dr.I variants with various rotaries continued, but what became of these airframes is unknown. One was on charge, operational, when the Armistice Commission staged an inspection at a time when there was supposed to be none. How many were partly completed we don't know. How many were produced, we don't know. What happened to them... you guessed it. We don't know.

Fokker Dr.I production had ceased over a year earlier, in May 1918. Some in US hands flew as late as 1927, where they found the cause of the structural weakness (too much lift from top wing).

There's a number of possibilities for the Black Triplane.
1. It was near Tsaritsyn. So was the one Sopwith Triplane we know about.
2. An ex-LSK Fokker Dr.I that made its way East, who knows how.
3. The one known Pfalz Dr.I still operational in Nov 1918 likewise.
4. A "Black Market" postwar production Pfalz Dr.I experimental with an engine that sorta worked.
5. A "Black Market" postwar production Pfalz Dr.II experimental with an engine that worked but might be a bit weak, as with the Fokker Dr.I
6. Some other German or Austrian experimental triplane acquired unofficially.
7. Something else

[Baldrick62]

Ok, interesting speculation: given the passage of time and events in Mitteleuropa, I guess there is no reasonable chance of a definitive answer. FMP's Pfalz Aircraft, which seems to be by far the best account in English, offers no conclusions.

[smitty_au]

Zoe,

Where do you get all the reference material?

Sean

[Zoe Brain]

Where do you get all the reference material?

Books, articles on the web (my Google-Fu is strong). Articles and posts on The Aerodrome site are a good source, there's a bunch of experts there, not just amateurs like me.

A good, simple introduction to the Russian Civil War is at http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/romeo/russia1918.htm
It's a complicated subject.

See for example - http://pweb.jps.net/~perrya/NewFiles/book.html - for a rundown on German and Wrangel's air forces.

I can recommend the SPI game on the subject

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2665/russian-civil-war-1918-1922-first-edition

[csadn]

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2665/russian-civil-war-1918-1922-first-edition

Ah, yes -- the game where one can score points for killing one's own troops.... :)