Early New Guinea action of Australian flyers

[Jager]

With the imminent arrival of the WGS Series 3 planes, specifically the P-40s, I'm reminded that I was going to do some planes up for an early New Guinea set of games. Specifically, I wanted the RAAF to be represented. Thanks to some light "research" on Wiki, I have the 75th SQD at Port Moresby Mar-May '42 (with some USAAC A-24s), and the 76th and 77th at Milne Bay that summer, all in P-40s.
The questions I have are:
1) Does anyone have the liveries these squadrons (esp the 75th) would have had?
2) Would they have been flying against the Japanese Navy or Army or both (my
memories was the Navy out of Lae and Rabaul)?
3) Did the RAAF receive and use here any of the P-39s that I read briefly about,
or were they USAAC planes?
4) Were there any other squadrons of note here, other than the Hudson-equipped
32nd Sqd?

Thanks Karl

[csadn]

1) Does anyone have the liveries these squadrons (esp the 75th) would have had?

http://www.ozatwar.com/75sqn.htm shows basic olive-drab all over, with "Pacific Theatre" roundels.


2) Would they have been flying against the Japanese Navy or Army or both (my
memories was the Navy out of Lae and Rabaul)?

http://www.awm.gov.au/units/unit_11101second_world_war.asp
http://www.awm.gov.au/units/unit_11103second_world_war.asp
http://www.awm.gov.au/units/unit_11105second_world_war.asp

Looking at the descriptions of action, they appeared to deal mostly with Japanese Naval units -- the only ones with the range and training to reach Australia.


3) Did the RAAF receive and use here any of the P-39s that I read briefly about,
or were they USAAC planes?

http://www.ozatwar.com/75sqn.htm
http://www.ozatwar.com/76sqn.htm
http://www.awm.gov.au/units/unit_11105korea.asp

all say they were equipped with P-40s only.


4) Were there any other squadrons of note here, other than the Hudson-equipped
32nd Sqd?

http://www.awm.gov.au/units/ww2.asp should have those details.

[Jager]

Thanks much; your links also provided information for the arriving USAAF units; bonus!
The P-39s look like from 1 unit for any length of time, the 8th fighter group, with 2 squadrons from end of April to June, and the third from July through til there re-equiptment with p-38s.
Thanks again
Karl

[csadn]

In fact, after some additional looking last night: It appears the RAAF P-39s never saw any combat (which, given the -39's defects, was probably just as well); they stayed in the rear until replaced.

[Jager]

Seems to be the case, from the squadron pages you linked in.
Karl

[richard m schwab]

Chris!


Check out this link. My go to place for plane info. I think there are two or three 75 Squadron P-40 profiles!

Rich

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/375/81/0#11

[Rat of Vengence]

Karl, there is an Australian auther called Stewart Wilson who has done several books of Australian and international aircraft. If you want some in-depth stuff on P-40 operations by the RAAF then his book on the Kittyhawk, Spitfire and Mustang is great reading. Lots of technical diagrams and camouflage schemes as well. Milne Bay is a great story in itself, the first time a Japanese invasion force was totally defeated on land. Most historians miss that one, because it was almost purely Australian forces defending.

Dave

[csadn]

Milne Bay is a great story in itself, the first time a Japanese invasion force was totally defeated on land. Most historians miss that one, because it was almost purely Australian forces defending.

Not to mention: The Japanese sent ~1,000 troops to attack what turned out to be ~8,000 Aussies.

[Jager]

Karl, there is an Australian auther called Stewart Wilson who has done several books of Australian and international aircraft. If you want some in-depth stuff on P-40 operations by the RAAF then his book on the Kittyhawk, Spitfire and Mustang is great reading. Lots of technical diagrams and camouflage schemes as well. Milne Bay is a great story in itself, the first time a Japanese invasion force was totally defeated on land. Most historians miss that one, because it was almost purely Australian forces defending.

Dave

Thanks Dave; I'll check his books out.
Karl

[Baldrick62]

Not to mention: The Japanese sent ~1,000 troops to attack what turned out to be ~8,000 Aussies.

Oops! As the apocryphal saying goes 'Time spent in reconnaissance is rarely wasted!'

[csadn]

Oops! As the apocryphal saying goes 'Time spent in reconnaissance is rarely wasted!'

Depends on the recon -- flying an airplane over a fog-shrouded island would be wasted; one needs to get one's "Tier 1s" on the ground to perform a head-count.

[Rat of Vengence]

Not to mention: The Japanese sent ~1,000 troops to attack what turned out to be ~8,000 Aussies.

Yes, for a change Allied Intelligence was accurate and they were ready for them. Oh, and there were nearly double the amount of Japanese you suggest, and they had tank support :)

It was downhill for Japanese expansion from there.

Dave

[Rat of Vengence]

Karl, here is some info for you.

This page is great; the picture at the top is for A29-99 flown by G Atherton, a flight commander with 75 at Milne Bay
http://www.adf-serials.com/2a29-E.shtml

Here's a good page with more info about markings; they removed the little red dot from the roundels as the USAAF kept shooting at RAAF aircraft!
http://www.southsearepublic.org/article/2478/read/the_battle_of_milne_bay_no75_and_no76_squadron_raaf/the_p40_kittyhawk_and_the_australian_air_force/

Hope that helps :)

Dave

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Hello Karl,

I have just read a recent article in Flightpath magazine about Sdn Ldr Barney Cresswell from 76 Sqn RAAF who was shot down and killed whilst flying with 75 Sqn RAAF on 17 April 1942. He flew A29-7 which despite the order regarding overpainting the red circles on the roundels still bore the standard insignia. A colourplate of the aircraft is shown below with two Zero's from the Tainan Kokutai that shot him down.

The upper wing roundels were the same as those on the lower wing.

39521

By the time the Milne Bay battles came around in August 1942 some aircraft had blue and white roundels applied, like this 76 Sqn RAAF aircraft below, however some still displayed the red, white and blue.

39522

Cheers,

Carl.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Not to mention: The Japanese sent ~1,000 troops to attack what turned out to be ~8,000 Aussies.

That so few Japanese SNLF troops were available for the assault on the Milne Bay airstrip was due in large part to the ground attack efforts of the RAAF Kittyhawks. They destroyed the Japanese barges required to unload transport vessels, shot up troop concentrations, and destroyed stockpiled supplies. At one point the Japanese were so close the P-40 pilots barely had their landing gear up after take-off before commencing their strafing runs. Their .50 cal machine guns fired so many rounds their barrels were competely worn within weeks, making accurate shooting very difficult.

Carl.

[Jager]

Thanks guys; always good to have more data.
Karl

[csadn]

Oh, and there were nearly double the amount of Japanese you suggest, and they had tank support :)

Hmm -- all the data I was able to find said "1,000-1,500 Japanese, with no support save what air power could provide".

[Carl_Brisgamer]

The Japanese marines at Milne Bay has two Type 95 light tanks which were used to good effect at the KB Mission battle on the night of 27-28 August 1942. The Australian 61 Battalion had no anti-tank weapons save 'sticky bombs', which did not work in the tropical climate, and suffered heavy casualties. Unfortunately for the Japanese the whole Milne Bay area was a swamp. The following day both tanks were bogged on the track heading towards the No.3 Strip and played no further part in the battle.

It was the destruction of their barges by the Kittyhawks that caused the Japanese the most damage. In Malaya and elsewhere when confronted with a stubborn resistance the Japanese would send a force further along the coast by barge under cover of darkness to flank the enemy positions. Without these transports this was impossible and forced the SNLF troops to make a frontal attack on the Australian positions at No.3 Strip on 31 August 1942 where they we slaughtered.

[Rabbit 3]

I have just read a recent article in Flightpath magazine about Sdn Ldr Barney Cresswell from 76 Sqn RAAF who was shot down and killed whilst flying with 75 Sqn RAAF on 17 April 1942. He flew A29-7 which despite the order regarding overpainting the red circles on the roundels still bore the standard insignia. A colourplate of the aircraft is shown below with two Zero's from the Tainan Kokutai that shot him down.

"The upper wing roundels were the same as those on the lower wing."

39521

By the time the Milne Bay battles came around in August 1942 some aircraft had blue and white roundels applied, like this 76 Sqn RAAF aircraft below, however some still displayed the red, white and blue.

39522


You know, this reminds me about a debate a couple of years ago on a Combat Flight Simulator website.
Back then there was a whole lot of discussion about a CFS2 add-on which centered on whether or not Australian P-40`s ever carried Red/White/Blue roundels on the upper wing.
Now, it would appear that the P-40`s supplied to the RAAF`s 75 Squadron were diverted from a British order and, when they arrived in Australia they were painted in the Curtis company`s interpretation of the standard RAF fighter scheme of the time.
Brown and green camoflage on top and grey underneath (substituting for the `sky` shade), Type `A` roundels (Red/White/Blue) on the underside, Type `A1` on the fuselage sides (Red/White/Blue with an extra outer yellow band),Red/White/Blue stripes on the fin and Type `B` roundels (Red/Blue) on the upper wing surfaces.
Those last roundels are a bit of a problem to say the least as the red centers are rather large and easy to confuse with Japanese `Meatballs` and those planes were needed in a hurry!
It occurred to me that, in order to change the `B`s to proper `A`s some very careful marking out would have needed to be done to get the proportions right so it strikes me that its more likely that what happened when the planes were uncrated was that some `erk` was given a pot of white paint and told to `paint out the red bits` on the upper wing when they also painted over the yellow surround on the fuselage roundels with green paint.
Thus creating the standard `Far East` roundel though it didn`t become official until later
(When that 76 Squadron plane arrived).