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View Full Version : WGFE: German Giants, The: R-Planes 1914-1918 (Putnam)



Baldrick62
01-20-2012, 14:36
Submit a Book ReviewBook Title:
The German Giants: R-Planes 1914-1918 Author:
G W Haddow & Peter M Grosz ISBN:
0-85177-812-7 Category:
Reference Format:
Hardback Summary:
'The German Giants was the first complete study of the develpoment and service history of the R-Planes, and quickly became established as a classic work. It gave full details of every aeroplane built, with previously unpublished photographs to accompany most entries, as well as information on uncompleted projects. Highly detailed full-page general arrangement drawings of the important types was another well received feature. The authors also made an exhaustive record of the performance and achievement of the Giants, and their book followed the service career of every aircraft, giving the full story of their operations over England and the eastern Front, the weight of bombs dropped, the casualties suffered, and the names of the pilots.'

First published in 1962, and subsequently amended up to a third edition in 1988, this is probably 'the book' on R-Planes. In just over 300 pages, it covers the operational history of the Riesenflugzeug, a description of the various types, from the well-known Zeppelin Staaken to the more obscure Linke-Hofmann aircraft and the downright bizarre SSW R.I, along with a plethora of designs and failed prototypes. It also covers ordnance, such as the airborne 5-inch gun (WW1 AC130 anyone), wire-guided missiles and early 'blockbuster' bombs.
It's a reference I wouldn't be without, and I suspect a scratch-builder's dream.
36951

monse
01-26-2012, 16:01
http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft25534.htm

With the Staaken R VI 39/16 picture, there is this comment :
"While the bombload is being readied in the foreground, the mechanic in the pilot's seat is watching the mechanic in the port nacelle cockpit between the engines as he runs up the two 260hp Maybach Mb IVa to check their serviceability."

I'd like to understand the meaning of the word "port" in the previous sentence (it doesn't mean left side).

thanks
Simon from France

Baldrick62
01-27-2012, 08:23
Bonjour monse,
The labelling of parts of an aircraft are taken from a reference point of looking forward from the tail (ie, in the direction of flight) rather than back from the nose. Using this reference orientation, from the link you provided the engine nacelle closest to the camera is the left (port) nacelle, with the (barely visible) mechanic in the cockpit space between the fore and aft engines being watched by another mechanic sitting in the left-hand seat of the main cockpit in the fuselage.
BofB

monse
02-04-2012, 08:44
http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft31373.htm

On this other link, there a several pictures with this comment : "photograph taken from the port engine nacelle".
But 2 pictures show the right side engine>
Could the word "port" have another meaning ?
(->"portable" ??)

Do you know if the nacelle cockpit between the engines on the RVI was closed like the pilot cockpit (by opposition of the opened nacelle on the RIV) ?

Thank you

Baldrick62
02-04-2012, 16:34
Bonsoir monce,
I believe both photos 13, 15 and 19 in the link you provided are showing the left-side (port) engine as you look forward from the tail in the direction of flight.

From what I can find it appears the engineer's station on the R.VI was open like on the R.IV. Not ethat photos 17 and 18 are of the fuselage engineer's compartment rather than the nacelles, as the VGOs and R.IV have an additional engine mounted in the nose.
BofB

Flying Officer Kyte
02-05-2012, 00:29
The cheapest copy of the book I found was on Amazon, who have one used for £60.
Rob.

Baldrick62
02-05-2012, 00:38
The cheapest copy of the book I found was on Amazon, who have one used for £60.
Rob.

As a 'classic' that's been out of print for many years, that doesn't surprise me. I picked up a second-hand copy at Hornchurch last year for £45.

monse
02-05-2012, 02:54
Bonsoir monce,
I believe both photos 14 and 21 in the link you provided are showing the left-side (port) engine as you look forward from the tail in the direction of flight.

From what I can find it appears the engineer's station on the R.VI was open like on the R.IV.
BofB

Hello Bofb,

the following picture indicates :
THE NOSE OF A GERMAN GIANT AEROPLANE. - Photograph taken from the port engine nacelle
http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Flight/1919/315-2.jpg

But it is taken from the right side engine.

No pictures have the mention "taken from the starboard engine".

In english, does "port" have another meaning ?

About the engineer's station on the R.VI, I haven't found any inflight picture like the engineers in their RIV nacelle.

On this one (RIV), the engine nacelle is opened.
http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Putnam/German_Giants/12-1.jpg

On the RVI, it seems to be closed.
http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Putnam/German_Giants/133-2.jpg
http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Fotofax/German_Bomb/46-1.jpg

Would you have other pictures ?

Flying Officer Kyte
02-05-2012, 03:10
As Baldrick says it is quite catergorical what we Brits regard as port and starboard. I can only suggest Simon that the Author has it wrong as the first picture is taken looking rearward, and that this error has been perpetuated.

Port and starboard are nautical terms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms) which refer to the left and right (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_direction) sides, respectively, of a ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship) or aircraft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft) as perceived by a person on board facing the bow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_(ship)) (front). At night, the port side of a vessel is indicated with a red navigation light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigation_light) and the starboard side with a green one.
The starboard side of most naval vessels the world over is designated the "senior" side. The officers' gangway or sea ladder is shipped on this side and this side of the quarterdeck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterdeck) is reserved for the captain. The flag or pennant of the ship's captain or senior officer in command is generally hoist on the starboard yard.

Rob.

Baldrick62
02-05-2012, 03:16
Bonjour Simon,
I see what you mean now!

The first of your links certainly appears to be taken from the right (starboard) side of an early VGO model, an R.IV, or perhaps the R.VII 14/15. The only explanations I can offer is that either the image has been reversed or mis-labelled.

In English, 'port' can also be a drink (Portuguese fortified wine from Oporto) or a suitcase (portmanteau), but I don't think either of those apply here!

Regarding the engine nacelle, I thought you were referring to the flight engineer's station in the nacelle rather than the whole thing, so in that respect there is a difference between the 'open' nacelle of the R.IV (and earlier VGO aircraft) and the 'closed' nacelle of the R.VI.

BofB

monse
02-05-2012, 09:03
Thank you Rob and Baldrick for all your explanation and clarification.



Regarding the engine nacelle, I thought you were referring to the flight engineer's station in the nacelle rather than the whole thing, so in that respect there is a difference between the 'open' nacelle of the R.IV (and earlier VGO aircraft) and the 'closed' nacelle of the R.VI.
Actually, regarding the engine nacelle, I am referring to the flight engineer's station in the nacelle : but on the RVI, it seems there is a very little location between both engines that is opened.

http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Putnam/German_Giants/133-2.jpg

Could the engineer have an access to the engine "deeper" inside without removing metallic panels like on ground ?

Baldrick62
02-05-2012, 09:18
I can't find a clear enough image to be certain however, I believe that the flight engineeer in the semi-enclosed nacelle of an R.VI would have had enough room to access both engines in the nacelle from under the covers without having to lift or remove nacelle panels. I think I have a photo from Krakow which may help.

Carl_Brisgamer
04-02-2016, 02:59
Hi WGF Bomber Fanatics,

In my research regarding combat reports involving R Planes I found a copy of this excellent (not to mention hard to find and expensive) tome has been uploaded to www.scribd.com, and is available to members for download (135mb PDF) :thumbsup:

I now have a copy in my WW1 folder. As indicated by Baldrick, the book has the technical aspects of the many R Planes developed before and during WW1, operational history, tactical employment, bombs, loss charts, load charts, not to mention rare photographs of the aircraft.

I have uploaded a few images extracted from the PDF, see below (including a seaplane R-Plane!!):

192827

192828

192829

192830

If anyone is interested in more info PM me ;)

Cheers,

Carl.

clipper1801
04-02-2016, 08:39
Ah shucks! My secret is out! This is a tremendous resource indeed. I found a copy years ago in a used book sale, best $2 I ever spent! Now you know the source of my monsters!

Flying Officer Kyte
04-02-2016, 09:00
A very kind offer Carl.
Thanks for making this resource available to the members for research purposes.
Rob.

zenlizard
04-02-2016, 10:07
Excellent data, Carl.