Shapeways Spad A.2/A.4

[Zoe Brain]

The one with the gunner in a pulpit in front of the prop. A 2-part model

http://www.shapeways.com/model/401992/spad_a_2_a_4_1_144th.htm

http://www.shapeways.com/openfile/401992/401992.v0.s17.convert.large.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/SPAD_A2.jpg/800px-SPAD_A2.jpg

http://www.ajp-maquettes.com/aAJP%20-%20Collection%20grande%20guerre%20base/photos%20d%E9tails%20avions/photo%20SPAD%20A2/SPAD%20A2%20photo%203.jpg

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Gallaud/French/spad_a2_fr/SPAD_A2_2.jpg

http://www.internetmodeler.com/2005/november/galleria/SPAD-A2-MrFly.jpg

http://www.internetmodeler.com/2005/november/galleria/SPAD-A4-XIX-Skull.jpg

[greenalfonzo]

That is crazy! Never knew about this one. Could it have been anything but a dud?

Looking forward to your work on one!

[gully_raker]

:eek: Wot a weird looking Bird!
All the benefits of a Tractor but the advantage of a Pusher before Syncro Guns.:thumbsup:

[Zoe Brain]

That is crazy! Never knew about this one. Could it have been anything but a dud?
Its success was... limited. The A2's 80 hp engine really didn't have enough grunt. One of those "good ideas" that wasn't.

The A4 with a 110hp engine was better, but the Russians were the only ones who persisted with this upgraded aircraft into 1917.... and many were still in service in 1919 on all sides of the Russian Civil War.

It was never popular with the crews who flew it. Remember, about two aircraft were lost due to accidents for every one shot down at this time. An accident would be most unfortunate for the front gunner. This, rather than any lack of performance, meant it was phased out as soon as it could be. On the other hand, two were shot down by Hauptmann Rudolf Berthold in June and July 1918, so it was remarkably long-lived.

Remember too that this is an aircraft from mid 1915, so in comparison with the contemporary FB5 and Morane L, its performance is pretty good. Faster than most aircraft of its era, and a worthy opponent for a Fokker E.III.

[berthier]

Would have been difficult to get much "grunt" with half the propellor obscured anyway!

Also I note the painted model above has part of the bottom wing front cut away to make room for the prop but this is different to the actual configuration in the photo.

[COLBATMAN]

Weird but I gotta have one!!!! Presume it would have the factors of a DH2? and the same Movement card set?
Zoe - The Colinwe models on Shapeways appear thick and clunky especially trailling wing edges, however the painted ones you have exibited on the Drome look far from it, your thoughts.

[Zakopious]

That certainly is a rare and unusual bird.
Would blow a few minds when placed on the gaming table.

[Zoe Brain]

The Colinwe models on Shapeways appear thick and clunky especially trailling wing edges, however the painted ones you have exibited on the Drome look far from it, your thoughts.

There's two things at work here:

First, the pictures on the Shapeways site are low-res ones, far chunkier than the actual model.

Second, it's all in the painting. The edges of wings and tail are as thick as those on metal models (or almost), not as fine as the plastic ones by Nexus, or the even finer ones by F-toys. A good paint-job though can conceal it. Ask your wife / GF about the use of shading and countershading in makeup, the same principles apply.

Example - the Fokker D-VII with lozenge - the wing edges are painted in a sorta kinda almost lozenge pattern - basically irregular dots (no attempt to make them the lozenge shape) that match the colours of the lozenge on the flat surface above. To the eye, it looks like a continuation, and the edge is hidden.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

There's two things at work here:

First, the pictures on the Shapeways site are low-res ones, far chunkier than the actual model.

Second, it's all in the painting. The edges of wings and tail are as thick as those on metal models (or almost), not as fine as the plastic ones by Nexus, or the even finer ones by F-toys. A good paint-job though can conceal it. Ask your wife / GF about the use of shading and countershading in makeup, the same principles apply.

Example - the Fokker D-VII with lozenge - the wing edges are painted in a sorta kinda almost lozenge pattern - basically irregular dots (no attempt to make them the lozenge shape) that match the colours of the lozenge on the flat surface above. To the eye, it looks like a continuation, and the edge is hidden.

That is a very good tip once again Zoe.
I usually just run a file along the edges of wings to give the illusion that the whole wing is thinner. It is a trick I got from making furniture, where putting a chamfer on edges has the same effect of lightening the whole structure without compromising the strength.
Rob.

[colinwe]

Also I note the painted model above has part of the bottom wing front cut away to make room for the prop but this is different to the actual configuration in the photo.

The bottom and top wings have to have cut outs; I think the photo just obscures this. From above, both wings run parallel to the position of the propeller; basically28661 if they weren't cut out the propeller couldn't turn or if it did it would cut the wings to pieces.

[Guntruck]

Colin,

I love you and want to have your babies! This is the one I've been waiting for. :D:thumbsup:

[Guntruck]

:eek: Wot a weird looking Bird!
All the benefits of a Tractor but the advantage of a Pusher before Syncro Guns.:thumbsup:

THe gunner didn't see the benefits when it nosed over and left him under a whirring prop and heavy engine :eek:

[GilmoreDK]

squish!

[colinwe]

Colin,

I love you and want to have your babies! This is the one I've been waiting for. :D:thumbsup:

Mmmmmmmm? Let me think about that. :eek:


Yep, buy me a pint and you're on.....:drinks:

[AlgyLacey]

THe gunner didn't see the benefits when it nosed over and left him under a whirring prop and heavy engine :eek:

Pilot (loudly and with signs) "Pass back my sandwiches and the flask old boy!" ...."Ewwwwww!"

[Zoe Brain]

Presume it would have the factors of a DH2? and the same Movement card set?

We're looking at a "G" deck certainly, omitting the Immelman. While we've managed to not modify any decks in any way so far, I think with this one we'll have to bite the bullet.

The construction is broadly the same as for a Spad VII, which incorporated a few "lessons learnt" from this design. Like a Spad VII, it was remarkably fast (for its time), but not so good in the manouverability department.

A DH2 should have superior manouverability.

[Zoe Brain]

Pilot (loudly and with signs) "Pass back my sandwiches and the flask old boy!" ...."Ewwwwww!"
Communication between pilot and observer was somewhat restricted, yes. Another reason why it wasn't popular with crews.

[Boney10]

Now that is an unusual aircraft, my list of wants seems to be getting bigger & bigger

[john snelling]

Estimated 57 SA.2's and 10 SA.4's were used by Russia. No.1 Fighter Squadron, 2nd Guard Air Squadron and 1st Turkastan Air Squadron had them. On 1 Apr 1917 25 Spad SA.2 and 4's were in service more than 10% of the Russian fighter force at that time.
SPAD SA.2 w/80hp Le Rhone 9c engine. loaded wt 815 kg Max spd : 112 km/h climb to 1,000 m in 8min climb to 2,000 m 20min ceiling 3,000 m
armament one 7.7 mm Lewis gun. From French Aircraft of the First world War by Dr. James J. Davilla

[john snelling]

I need to get some for my IRAS. Thank you Colin for a plane I never thought anyone would make. John

[GilmoreDK]

112 km/h ! :-(

[Mike W]

Oh no! I've been resisting buying any 1915 miniatures. Now I will have to start.

Since it was the same time period at the Nieuport 10, I am a bit puzzled why they didn't take the basic tractor aircraft (SPAD 2) and fly it with a topwing mounted machine gun like the Nieuport 10.

[Burt]

Now that is an unusual aircraft, my list of wants seems to be getting bigger & bigger
My sentiments exactly Chris

[batesyboy]

For my 500th posting, here`s my little card version of this `deathtrap` of a bus (particularly for the observers)
It was rejected almost immediately by the RFC after two accidents, In one instance the front nacelle fell off, and
the other the observer got squished...
The gun mount was cumbersome, and the manoverability very slow to turn....but i just had tohave one....lol

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Executed with your usual skill Lee, and a very interesting addition to the skies above the table.
As to your 500th mission, Kyte keeps whispering over my shoulder those three immortal words.
TO THE BAR.
Rob.

[Zoe Brain]

112 km/h ! :-(
Typo in the original article - all other sources say 152 km/h.

[Burt]

Nice to see what it looks like complete.
An interesting looking plane if nothing else.

[Guntruck]

Wow, that's nice. Wish I had the skill/patience for card models.

[john snelling]

Thanks Zoe for the correction. I should have questioned the slowness and do further research on the spd. Let's see 112 is 69.6 mph and 152 is 94.5 which makes alot more sense. Being American I think in MPH or Knots (being retired US Navy). Thanks again. John

[colinwe]

Since it was the same time period at the Nieuport 10, I am a bit puzzled why they didn't take the basic tractor aircraft (SPAD 2) and fly it with a topwing mounted machine gun like the Nieuport 10.

It wasn't a fighter even though it looks like an answer to the problem of firing through the propeller. It was designed as a recce aircraft. Design spec's stated "thus is provided a nacelle suitable to accommodate the observer and should the need arise for him to act as a gunner, firearms such as machine guns."

Colin

[Zoe Brain]

Being American I think in MPH or Knots (being retired US Navy). Thanks again. John
As opposed to BAMs and Mils for angles, and Admiralty NM, Radar miles, etc. Cocked-Hat reductions and running fixes.

At various times I've worn the uniforms of all 3 services (as a scumbag civilian contractor), and spent a ridiculous amount of my life peering into PPIs, engaging in rebooting AN/UYK-7s (a long time ago) and such. ICKCMX and NTDS-Fast interfaces, Whirly One and Slick 32 victor (showing my age again). Not to mention time spent on various subs. Last time I got shot at was at Haifa Naval Base, about 5 years ago. I don't miss the experience.

Quick intermission: On some systems I've worked on, all internal lengths are in cubits (defined as half a meter). That way, we have to do explicit conversion on both input and output, into Kilofeet, Flight Levels, Radar Miles, NMI, Admiralty NM, Cables, Fathoms, kilometres, and so on. Not to say metres/sec, mach, mph, kph, knots etc. Otherwise there's too much danger of mixing up units.

[alpine]

What an odd looking plane. Your version of it looks amazing! Can't even tell it's made of the Shapeways material from the pics of your repaint. Great job!

[john snelling]

As opposed to BAMs and Mils for angles, and Admiralty NM, Radar miles, etc. Cocked-Hat reductions and running fixes.

At various times I've worn the uniforms of all 3 services (as a scumbag civilian contractor), and spent a ridiculous amount of my life peering into PPIs, engaging in rebooting AN/UYK-7s (a long time ago) and such. ICKCMX and NTDS-Fast interfaces, Whirly One and Slick 32 victor (showing my age again). Not to mention time spent on various subs. Last time I got shot at was at Haifa Naval Base, about 5 years ago. I don't miss the experience.

Quick intermission: On some systems I've worked on, all internal lengths are in cubits (defined as half a meter). That way, we have to do explicit conversion on both input and output, into Kilofeet, Flight Levels, Radar Miles, NMI, Admiralty NM, Cables, Fathoms, kilometres, and so on. Not to say metres/sec, mach, mph, kph, knots etc. Otherwise there's too much danger of mixing up units.

I almost forgot about the whirly 1 and the slick 32. 1975 to 1979 on the USS Blandy being a OS always liked the EWs and hung out with alot of them. Great group of guys. NTDS interfaces what a bucket of worms. Retired in 2003. Thanks for the flashback. John