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Oberst Hajj
11-18-2011, 01:39
The announcement of the new Starter set confirms that the "3rd" paint jobs of all four types are in it. Those being:

Gisclon in the P-40
Durand in the Yak-1
Kobayashi in the Ki-61
Vaccari in the Falco II

For the American players, not much in this set to drive sells besides collecting all the planes, unless you are really wanting to do the Africa front and need the desert scheme P-40 for repaints.

I will say it has the better paint jobs for the Ki-61 and Yak-1 planes though.

Also of interesting note is that a play tester has said that the Basic, Standard and Advanced rules eluded to are this:

Basic rules: Play as single card at a time, planning a new one after moving and firing.
Standard rules: The same as what Dawn of War was with plane two, move one and plan another.
Advanced rules add in altitude and the other optional rules from Dawn of War.

I've yet to hear any mention as to changes in the altitude rules.


http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27494&d=1322175280

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27507&d=1322192324

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27493&d=1322175278

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27492&d=1322175276

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27491&d=1322175275

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27490&d=1322175273

bsmith13
11-18-2011, 07:04
I wonder if Ares will post the rules on their website...

The Cowman
11-18-2011, 08:13
Great news... I have high hopes for Ares!

Marechallannes
11-18-2011, 10:26
WOG - Starter Set is a must-buy for me to support Ares Games.

Thanks for the info, Herr Oberst.:salute:

Kaiser
11-18-2011, 11:28
Seconded! :)

Doug
11-18-2011, 13:14
Does not appeal to me unless there is any change in the altitude rules which I use all the time, but other wise no not for me:hmm:

BobP
11-18-2011, 14:50
I collect all planes that are produced so guess the Delux set is a must. Can't have set 3 with only 8 of the 12 planes. I have my preorder in so have to see how they handle this.

Jeff Cope
11-22-2011, 19:39
Ares posted today on Facebook and Twitter that the new Starter Set is at the printers! Getting closer!

Oberst Hajj
11-25-2011, 00:05
New photos added to the first post. The new box looks good!

Kaiser
11-25-2011, 05:25
Wow! Looks great!

Naharaht
11-26-2011, 19:48
Buy the new starter set and help the Italian economy recover. :)

Jeff Cope
11-27-2011, 05:13
Y'know, I didn't care for the new logo when it was first shown but seeing it on the box...I really dig it. Man, I can't wait to get that new Starter Set.

jhary
11-27-2011, 06:50
Hope for more to come

Bartman
11-27-2011, 07:37
This IS very good news.

Keith, you're right on about the choice of P-40 scheme...odd that the photo art is of a flightline of US P-40's :hmm:

Tommy Z
11-27-2011, 08:32
I may break down and buy a set...just to support Ares! :thumbsup:

Dwarflord22
11-27-2011, 18:16
I will likely buy the starter set just for the planes.

alpine
11-27-2011, 22:33
I'm telling you now that I will buy the starter set plus the rest of the planes. Thinking to get a Flying Tigers squad together as well.

Dan-Sam
11-28-2011, 00:05
I look forward to the new rules - the preview looks really nice. I am little scared about the composition of sets - there are not any obvious enemies (Germany x Britain, Soviet Union (France) or Japan x USA (China)). Hope it will have a good start. Crossing fingers!

Jeff Cope
11-28-2011, 07:14
I wonder if Ares will post the rules on their website...

They're up now! Woo-hoo!

http://www.aresgames.eu/downloads/archive

Jeff Cope
12-01-2011, 03:19
FYI, Ares is now saying this is a Feb 2012 release...according to a new preview article that went up on their site.

http://www.aresgames.eu/2144

Oberst Hajj
12-01-2011, 05:35
Yes, so far the entire Wings of Glory line appears to have slipped to the right by 2 months. They show War of the Ring as shipping in November when it was supposed to be available then.

While a couple of months slip is not good news, if they can really stick to that it will be an improvement over Nexus :crash:

Jeff Cope
12-01-2011, 05:46
Honestly, I though their original projected released dates were on the overly optimistic side for what is ostensibly a new company. When you factor in dealing with overseas factories for you plastic components with timetables that are often out of your control, delays are to be expected.

While such delays can be frustrating for the fans/consumers, they are probably more frustrating for Ares. They want their products on the market so they can start generating revenue. I remain very optimistic about Ares Games and am excited to see where they go from here.

Naharaht
12-01-2011, 05:48
I notice that it does not say where it will be released in February 2012. Will it be the U.S.A. in February and for the rest of us about August?

Dwarflord22
12-02-2011, 13:37
Honestly, I though their original projected released dates were on the overly optimistic side for what is ostensibly a new company. When you factor in dealing with overseas factories for you plastic components with timetables that are often out of your control, delays are to be expected.

While such delays can be frustrating for the fans/consumers, they are probably more frustrating for Ares. They want their products on the market so they can start generating revenue. I remain very optimistic about Ares Games and am excited to see where they go from here.

I agree...and I could use a little breather to rebuild my finances for the next releases since I have purchased 25 planes with the last week to complete my WWI and WWII plane collections! :eek:

flyingryno
12-02-2011, 13:45
Great! Fantastic! I'll be there to buy it when it shows up on my LGS!

Diamondback
12-02-2011, 15:39
Package and book cover have a very nice "retro"/"period" look to 'em. (Personally, I'd like to see plane packages made up to look like shipping crates, but that's just me... and I've been looking at some neat little mini ammo-cans as replacement cases.)

pobolycwm
12-17-2011, 23:45
Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere, are the cards from the older nexus/ff games going to be compatiable with the new stuff ?
thanks
jamie

Madboyo
12-18-2011, 00:00
They are tempting. But I better stick to WW1 and ease the burden on the pocket!

Kaiser
12-18-2011, 07:55
Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere, are the cards from the older nexus/ff games going to be compatiable with the new stuff ?
thanks
jamie

Yes they are :)

gunhawk
12-20-2011, 08:37
I think the French color scheme P-40 for the starter set was a bad idea. I would have included the American P-40F as it was possible that they flew against Ki-61's and A6m2's. I would rather have seen the P-40 in the British "Kittyhawk" colors than the French colors and would have sold the AVG and British versions as singles. I would have considered buying the starter set if it included the American P-40F, but as it is, unless the set includes some cards or markers that I really need, I won't buy it. I think that the set might turn out to be a tough sale in the US to begin with, as the Axis & Allies "Angels 20" set will be released before the WOG set and it will be a direct rival for the American dollar.

David Manley
12-20-2011, 08:40
I think its fairly well accepted that the contents of the starter set are not "optimal" (i.e. not quite a disaster, but nearly so), but they were forced upon Ares by the Nexus planned releases and what was (I believe) sitting in a warehouse in China. Ideally they'd have started with a cracker of a starter set (e.g. a Pacific set, or Battle of Britain), but alas it was not an option.

Diamondback
12-20-2011, 08:43
But with the entire Axis & Allies Minis design/management team summarily axed, quite a few of us are ready to tell We're Out To Conquer "Bleep You, We're Done".

Don't like Gisclon? Get a paintbrush... OD over Neutral Gray is one of the easiest paintjobs in the history of military aviation. :D

gunhawk
12-20-2011, 08:59
But with the entire Axis & Allies Minis design/management team summarily axed, quite a few of us are ready to tell We're Out To Conquer "Bleep You, We're Done".

Don't like Gisclon? Get a paintbrush... OD over Neutral Gray is one of the easiest paintjobs in the history of military aviation. :D

Good point about the A&A team being let go. It looks bad for the line. What i'm saying is that for the mass market and impulse buyers seeing the two different starter sets they will probably go for the A&A Angels 20 because of the planes offered. They aren't going to know why Ares had to use these planes and they aren't going to know that A&A minis will probably go belly up. And yes, I know that I can do a re-paint. I will probably modify the numbers on a couple of AVG planes for well known pilots like Charlie Bond. I wish there was a WOG Ki-43 to fly them against. The same is true for the A&A set though. No planes to fly against.

Diamondback
12-20-2011, 09:08
Also a fair point, I might've put Lott in the box and Gisclon single--then again, most folks will probably only buy one starter, and the AVG and USAAF birds are more "repaint fodder".

OT: I told WOTC "Eat Mudblown Skivvies" not only because I consider Rich and Steve personal friends, but because I know that for the most part they know the subject-matter, while their replacements are likely to be either pure gamer-nerds or management's yes-men with little to no historical comprehension.

gunhawk
12-20-2011, 09:39
Also a fair point, I might've put Lott in the box and Gisclon single--then again, most folks will probably only buy one starter, and the AVG and USAAF birds are more "repaint fodder".

OT: I told WOTC "Eat Mudblown Skivvies" not only because I consider Rich and Steve personal friends, but because I know that for the most part they know the subject-matter, while their replacements are likely to be either pure gamer-nerds or management's yes-men with little to no historical comprehension.

Are you going to re-number any of the AVG P-40's? R.T. Smith, Baldrick, Rector, Older?

I have a feeling that WOTC is going to discontinue the Land and Sea minis. They probably feel that they played out those strings. After all, they've done all of the well known vehicles and ships. I think they might continue the air minis for a while though, as some work has already been put into them and there are still plenty of plane types to do. I guess it depends on how good the game is.

Diamondback
12-20-2011, 09:46
I myself don't repaint... Land still has a chance at all the really desirable Late War stuff that hasn't been upscaled yet, Naval has 1-2 good potential sets' worth of units...

But then again, we're talking about a company that LOST money on a license (Star Wars) that virtually PRINTS money.

Kaiser
12-20-2011, 09:51
I wonder when the first WGS/WGF stuff appears on german online stores?

jhary
12-20-2011, 12:28
i´m not shure if will buy this "Starter set" it depend what else is in the box. but i will by me the AVG P-40 and Texas Hill the french p-40 is a no go for me i woud think about it if she woud be British or Australian but french and Desert Camo Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Oberst Hajj
12-20-2011, 22:27
Hey, they had to give us the desert camo P-40. I mean, there had to be some plane to fly against the lone desert Stuka :(

flyingryno
12-20-2011, 23:29
Looking good I'm all a shudder with anticipation.

David Manley
12-21-2011, 00:46
Hey, they had to give us the desert camo P-40. I mean, there had to be some plane to fly against the lone desert Stuka

Desert camo would have been fine had it been one of these :)

http://www.warbirddepot.com/dbimages/206/206-a-1280.jpg

Could be a fairly easy re-decalling job for those inclined

Oberst Hajj
12-21-2011, 01:17
Yes, I agree it should have been a Brit or US. I personally hope that Ares breaks away form the politically correct tend Nexus had with making minis from as many different countries as possible. They need to concentrate on what will sell world wide, with an slant towards the larger markets.

Nightbomber
12-21-2011, 01:37
I strongly second the negative opinion about the French scheme choice.

jbmacek
12-21-2011, 04:12
I hadn't given much though to buying this, but the more I think about it, the more tempted I am.

gunhawk
12-21-2011, 07:21
Hey, they had to give us the desert camo P-40. I mean, there had to be some plane to fly against the lone desert Stuka :(

Why not a desert camo British P-40 "Kittyhawk"? Wouldn't that make more sense and be more marketable? The USAAF P-40 in the starter and the "Kittyhawk" as a single? Whichever way you cut it, not putting a P-40 with American colors in the starter was a terrible idea.

jhary
12-21-2011, 07:56
Its the wrong camo schema on the French P40. Its not Dessert its the camo Australiens used

Kaiser
12-21-2011, 08:18
@jhary: Have you a source for the correct french desert camouflage?
The WGS P40 seems pretty correct tome
http://maquette72.free.fr/themes/lafayette/P40_normal/photos_congresUS/photossource/Handover002a.jpg

csadn
12-21-2011, 13:34
I personally hope that Ares breaks away form the politically correct tend Nexus had with making minis from as many different countries as possible. They need to concentrate on what will sell world wide, with an slant towards the larger markets.

These are mutually-exclusive goals: If they are going to allow for worldwide sales, they must give a nod to the "lesser powers"; if they slant towards the big markets, the paint schemes of the lesser nations must necessarily be shorted, if not eliminated. (And the less said about the possibility of going "collectible game" on us, the better.)

Oberst Hajj
12-22-2011, 00:27
These are mutually-exclusive goals: If they are going to allow for worldwide sales, they must give a nod to the "lesser powers"; if they slant towards the big markets, the paint schemes of the lesser nations must necessarily be shorted, if not eliminated. (And the less said about the possibility of going "collectible game" on us, the better.)

I don't think they have to be tied to each other:

Drop all the planes/paint schemes from the starter and the main series release lines besides British/Germany for Europe and the US/Japan for the Pacific. Every player out there will buy either of those Areas of Operation (AoR) if not both. None of the customers will be picking and choosing which planes to get. Revenue will be higher allowing them to produce a special Africa/Russia/Italian AoR boxed set (just like a starter set). Anyone interested in those planes or that AoR will pick up that one up as well. Heck most of us would pick them up just because we do collect these things! They could do 1-2 of these AoR boxes a year and just rotate them out.

This would not only increase their overall sales, it would actually give the players the means to do campaigns or at least historically accurate missions.

csadn
12-22-2011, 15:19
Drop all the planes/paint schemes from the starter and the main series release lines besides British/Germany for Europe and the US/Japan for the Pacific. Every player out there will buy either of those Areas of Operation (AoR) if not both. None of the customers will be picking and choosing which planes to get. Revenue will be higher allowing them to produce a special Africa/Russia/Italian AoR boxed set (just like a starter set). Anyone interested in those planes or that AoR will pick up that one up as well. Heck most of us would pick them up just because we do collect these things! They could do 1-2 of these AoR boxes a year and just rotate them out.

First problem I see: I have at least twenty games where I can play "US and Britain versus Germany and Japan"; there's at least one other game out now similarly arranged -- in short: Why should I bother buying a "new" game with the same rehashed forces?

Second: The assumption that players "will" buy whatever is presented to them is a dangerous business assumption -- related to the previous paragraph: If all the player sees is "same stuff, different wrapper", what's to stop him *not* buying the game at all? (The Forum is, to put it bluntly, not a representative cross-section of the gaming community as a whole; most of us are fanatics, for lack of a better word. There's a lot more folks out there who aren't.)

Third: As we saw with Nexus, having to wait on a set being released ignores the all-too-likely possibility that the company's earlier products *won't* sell, meaning the set never sees the light of day (he said, looking at the empty space on his shelf where a Hanriot HD.1 should be residing, damn it!); which leaves the under-represented segments of the hobby still under-represented. (Put it this way: This is the first WW2 air-combat game I've ever seen which included an Italian-designed airplane at all.)

Were it me running the show (god help us): I'd be looking into whether it was possible to have a form of "just-in-time" mini-and-card production. For ex.: I have the F4U Corsair mini, and a brace of six possible cards -- US Navy A, US Navy B; USMC A; USMC B: UK FAA; French Aeronavale (post-war). If an order comes in for a particular one, the mini gets run through the paint machine, the card gets printed, the lot gets packed and shipped out. If no one orders a particular design, oh well; at least they won't be clogging discount bins or landfills.

gunhawk
12-22-2011, 18:48
First problem I see: I have at least twenty games where I can play "US and Britain versus Germany and Japan"; there's at least one other game out now similarly arranged -- in short: Why should I bother buying a "new" game with the same rehashed forces?

Second: The assumption that players "will" buy whatever is presented to them is a dangerous business assumption -- related to the previous paragraph: If all the player sees is "same stuff, different wrapper", what's to stop him *not* buying the game at all? (The Forum is, to put it bluntly, not a representative cross-section of the gaming community as a whole; most of us are fanatics, for lack of a better word. There's a lot more folks out there who aren't.)

Third: As we saw with Nexus, having to wait on a set being released ignores the all-too-likely possibility that the company's earlier products *won't* sell, meaning the set never sees the light of day (he said, looking at the empty space on his shelf where a Hanriot HD.1 should be residing, damn it!); which leaves the under-represented segments of the hobby still under-represented. (Put it this way: This is the first WW2 air-combat game I've ever seen which included an Italian-designed airplane at all.)

Were it me running the show (god help us): I'd be looking into whether it was possible to have a form of "just-in-time" mini-and-card production. For ex.: I have the F4U Corsair mini, and a brace of six possible cards -- US Navy A, US Navy B; USMC A; USMC B: UK FAA; French Aeronavale (post-war). If an order comes in for a particular one, the mini gets run through the paint machine, the card gets printed, the lot gets packed and shipped out. If no one orders a particular design, oh well; at least they won't be clogging discount bins or landfills.

You would buy a new game that gamers always buy new games on popular subjects. Because you think the rules might be better with a fresh approach. In the case of air to air combat games using models you might like these new models better. Or you might like the scale of the models. Or you just like the idea that you don't have to assemble and/or paint them. How many WW II squad/platoon level boardgames have there been produced over the years? There are at least four good ones fighting for your buck right now. Each one has a completely different rules set and approach to the subject. I own three of them.

I don't know that we're "fanatics". We like the game and support it. It makes perfectly good sense to utilize a forum for rules ideas, updates, news, mods, trading etc. If you play the game regulary and your *not* at least lurking the forum your missing out on a lot. The news and ideas here are free. Free is good.

As for marketing and which models should be produced; first the releasing company should know who they are marketing to and release the product accordingly. If the market in the USA is larger than any other market they should produce more American aircraft and their obvious enemy's aircraft than any other nation's planes. So which nation is potentially the largest consumer of WOG? Is it France? I doubt it. You've seen the reaction to the P-40 with French colors in the starter set in this forum. I wouldn't care if Nexus *never* produced a French P-40. WOG WW I is a different story. There's no way that we could do without French planes for that conflict. So it's not just a question of being America-centric. Nexus should do what makes sense.

Oberst Hajj
12-23-2011, 02:06
First problem I see: I have at least twenty games where I can play "US and Britain versus Germany and Japan"; there's at least one other game out now similarly arranged -- in short: Why should I bother buying a "new" game with the same rehashed forces?

You know why there are 20 games out there that let you play US & Brits against Germany & Japan? Because the sale!




Second: The assumption that players "will" buy whatever is presented to them is a dangerous business assumption -- related to the previous paragraph: If all the player sees is "same stuff, different wrapper", what's to stop him *not* buying the game at all? (The Forum is, to put it bluntly, not a representative cross-section of the gaming community as a whole; most of us are fanatics, for lack of a better word. There's a lot more folks out there who aren't.)

I was mainly talking about current players with my statement that they would buy anything produced for the game. But in regards to a new player looking at a new WWII air combat game, which do you think would sale more consistently and in higher volumes around the world?

Game A with an initial focus on France vs. Italy
or
Game B with an initial focus on Britain vs. Germany

I think must agree that game B would out sell game A the world over. Not to say that game A would not sale or appeal to gamers out there.




Third: As we saw with Nexus, having to wait on a set being released ignores the all-too-likely possibility that the company's earlier products *won't* sell, meaning the set never sees the light of day (he said, looking at the empty space on his shelf where a Hanriot HD.1 should be residing, damn it!); which leaves the under-represented segments of the hobby still under-represented. (Put it this way: This is the first WW2 air-combat game I've ever seen which included an Italian-designed airplane at all.)

If I am reading that correctly, you our saying that the current lack of sales is due partly to not having the planes "we" want? That is exactly my point. The WWII version of the game is all but dead (based on the number of times I've seen it played and the number of minis you can still get for it).

Had Nexus released the correct planes to begin with, a lot more people would be playing it now and the demand would be right up there with the WWI version... sold out everywhere with everyone dying for more minis! The only way to ensure future sales is to sell what you have now... and it's not selling!



Were it me running the show (god help us): I'd be looking into whether it was possible to have a form of "just-in-time" mini-and-card production. For ex.: I have the F4U Corsair mini, and a brace of six possible cards -- US Navy A, US Navy B; USMC A; USMC B: UK FAA; French Aeronavale (post-war). If an order comes in for a particular one, the mini gets run through the paint machine, the card gets printed, the lot gets packed and shipped out. If no one orders a particular design, oh well; at least they won't be clogging discount bins or landfills.

There is the capability of print on demand for both the cards and the minis... but the cost would be so high no one would buy them. That's not even thinking about the distribution nightmare of such an operation! If no one is buying one of your designs, it's because you made the wrong one... just like Nexus did with WWII.

csadn
12-23-2011, 14:06
You know why there are 20 games out there that let you play US & Brits against Germany & Japan? Because the sale!

The problem being: Most of those games didn't sell very well. I can only speak for myself, but I've walked past several WW2AC games because I've looked at the game and said "I've already played this a dozen times before -- why buy another edition of the same thing?"


I was mainly talking about current players with my statement that they would buy anything produced for the game. But in regards to a new player looking at a new WWII air combat game, which do you think would sale more consistently and in higher volumes around the world?

Game A with an initial focus on France vs. Italy
or
Game B with an initial focus on Britain vs. Germany

I think must agree that game B would out sell game A the world over. Not to say that game A would not sale or appeal to gamers out there.

See above -- I'm not sure how many players have walked past a game because "I already have a dozen different renditions of this"; and there's no way to measure that number (it's impossible to measure the number of times something doesn't happen...). One could argue the reason WoG1 succeeds where WoG2 fails is: There's not that many WW1AC games out there to start with, so the market isn't saturated.


If I am reading that correctly, you our saying that the current lack of sales is due partly to not having the planes "we" want?

It depends on which "we" you're referring to. Yes, around here, the rage is "national purity" (US fighters in US markings; British fighters in British markings; German fighters in German markings), and "no minor powers". But that's just here -- who's to say the failure isn't represented elsewhere by "sigh -- another game which completely ignores my country's contribution"? (Or perhaps Nexus's screaming inability to make production deadlines -- the "GDW Effect"?)

The Forum is a nice place, and a lot of effort has gone into it; but to assume what is said and thought here is what everyone everywhere says and thinks is, well, wrong.

gunhawk
12-23-2011, 17:28
The problem being: Most of those games didn't sell very well. I can only speak for myself, but I've walked past several WW2AC games because I've looked at the game and said "I've already played this a dozen times before -- why buy another edition of the same thing?"



See above -- I'm not sure how many players have walked past a game because "I already have a dozen different renditions of this"; and there's no way to measure that number (it's impossible to measure the number of times something doesn't happen...). One could argue the reason WoG1 succeeds where WoG2 fails is: There's not that many WW1AC games out there to start with, so the market isn't saturated.



It depends on which "we" you're referring to. Yes, around here, the rage is "national purity" (US fighters in US markings; British fighters in British markings; German fighters in German markings), and "no minor powers". But that's just here -- who's to say the failure isn't represented elsewhere by "sigh -- another game which completely ignores my country's contribution"? (Or perhaps Nexus's screaming inability to make production deadlines -- the "GDW Effect"?)

The Forum is a nice place, and a lot of effort has gone into it; but to assume what is said and thought here is what everyone everywhere says and thinks is, well, wrong.

How many WW II Air games with pre-painted planes are there? Only one that I know of. Wings of Glory. I bought into the game for exactly that reason. I'm not a military modeller and I don't want to paint planes. I might do a *little* modifying, like changing the number on the AVG planes, but that's about all, so I didn't buy the rules to "Check Your Six" or any of the other "dozens of renditions". WOG fills the need for guys like me that want to play with finished painted models without doing the work, so I don't think that there are any other WW II air combat games that are in direct competition. Not until "Angels 20" comes out anyway. So the market is hardly what i'd call "saturated".

Any company that releases a pre-painted air combat game has to be realistic about the "contributions of other countries". We know which countries contributed the largest numbers of men and equipment and had the greatest impact on WW II. Those are the nation's planes we want to see represented. And yes, I *do* think that I speak for the majority of Americans that would buy the product. You develop and sell a product to the largest market. That's just common sense.

Dwarflord22
12-23-2011, 21:38
How many WW II Air games with pre-painted planes are there? Only one that I know of. Wings of Glory. I bought into the game for exactly that reason. I'm not a military modeller and I don't want to paint planes. I might do a *little* modifying, like changing the number on the AVG planes, but that's about all, so I didn't buy the rules to "Check Your Six" or any of the other "dozens of renditions". WOG fills the need for guys like me that want to play with finished painted models without doing the work, so I don't think that there are any other WW II air combat games that are in direct competition. Not until "Angels 20" comes out anyway. So the market is hardly what i'd call "saturated".

Any company that releases a pre-painted air combat game has to be realistic about the "contributions of other countries". We know which countries contributed the largest numbers of men and equipment and had the greatest impact on WW II. Those are the nation's planes we want to see represented. And yes, I *do* think that I speak for the majority of Americans that would buy the product. You develop and sell a product to the largest market. That's just common sense.

I couldn't agree more Ed. :thumbsup: I would not have purchased the game if they did not have good quality, pre-painted minis. It might also interest everyone that a demo at an annual gaming convention introduced me to the game. It the demo did not include playing with the models (vs. just the cards), I would not have signed up to play or purchased the game. Any nationality is fine with me considering the game is about a world war, just as long as the paint schemes are interesting! :)

Oberst Hajj
12-23-2011, 23:40
I agree that the pre-painted minis are what set this game about. I think I could name just about every production plane used in WWII when I was 12. Here it is 25 years later and I've never played a WWII air combat game. This is despite the fact that I was an accomplished model builder and miniatures painter (winning comps and doing commission works).

I also looked at Wings of Glory for several years but never bought it until the minis came out.

David Manley
12-24-2011, 00:40
One could argue the reason WoG1 succeeds where WoG2 fails is: There's not that many WW1AC games out there to start with, so the market isn't saturated.

I don't think either market is saturated, there are many, many rules available for WW1 and WW2 air wargames across the complete spectrum of complexity and realism. As far as I know WoW / DoW are the only games that include a range of pre-painted minis (there are, for example pre-painted WW2 models out there already but not associated with particular rules so punters don't get the complete "experience"). I think the reason why WW1 is more popular than WW2 has to do with the quirkiness and attractiveness of the aircraft, the whole "Red Baron" thing, Snoopy, Sopwith Camels, "Knights of the Air", Blackadders "20 minuters" and Lord Flasheart, Biggles, etc. - there is much more of a pioneering spirit, and more "fun". OK, I'm probably not expressing it very well but I hope readers know what I mean. That's not to say that other periods aren't fun as well. I've been playing WW2 air wargames since the 70s, modern air since the late 1980s and have written several sets of modestly successful rules across the air wargaming spectrum, so I'm happy chasing down a Skyhawk with a Sea Harrier as I am a Lagg3 with a Bf109 or a Mig 17 with an F-4, but for pure "fun" value I keep coming back to WW1.


If I am reading that correctly, you our saying that the current lack of sales is due partly to not having the planes "we" want? That is exactly my point. The WWII version of the game is all but dead (based on the number of times I've seen it played and the number of minis you can still get for it).

Had Nexus released the correct planes to begin with, a lot more people would be playing it now and the demand would be right up there with the WWI version... sold out everywhere with everyone dying for more minis! The only way to ensure future sales is to sell what you have now... and it's not selling!

Maybe, but somehow I doubt it. The selection of aircraft is not that bad - OK, there are gaps but you can do a decent BoB game with 109s. Stukas, Spitfires and Hurricanes, and a Pacific game with Wildcats, Zeroes and Vals. I think the difference is in the subject, and to be honest, the game play. I've not had the chance to play WW2 myself so far but of my friends who have, and who have also played WW1, the view seems to be that the WW1 set plays better and is more fun. One day though I hope to put this theory to the test (I have a WW2 set, just no opportunity for a game so far). That and the WW1 models are way more attractive than the WW2 ones (which are OK, but there's something about the canopies that shouts "toy" more than it does the WW1 models which obviously don't have the feature - something to do with the lack of canopy framing which is always going to be an issue; yes, I was the kid that painted in the frames on his Bachmann Mini-Planes all those years ago to make them look "better").


We all know the composition of the WW1 starter set is driven by what's available, and I don't think anyone believes for a nanosecond that if Ares were starting from a clean sheet of paper they'd EVER have considered that combination of aircraft in those colours as a good choice for a launch product. Given the choice I'm sure they would have gone for a Pacific or BoB set, simply because they'd have raked in money hand over fist, and that would put them in good stead to produce more unusual miniatures in the future (there's a reason why successful wargaming companies produce "Classic" Romans / Napoleonic French and British / WW2 Germans in their first releases).


I also looked at Wings of Glory for several years but never bought it until the minis came out.

Technically its not out yet :)


Not until "Angels 20" comes out anyway.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. Larger models (bad, IMHO, but then again they fit in with 1/100 minis so they could go down a storm with FoW players). A "Collectable" aspect (I think?), but then again wait about 2 minutes and you'll be able to buy whatever you want via eBay so you won't have to worry about randomness (just high prices for the rare ones).


Put it this way: This is the first WW2 air-combat game I've ever seen which included an Italian-designed airplane at all.

What, in the stats list, or as a model? If the latter then hardly surprising since DoW/WGS is the first popular game to do ANY models :)

bsmith13
12-24-2011, 06:50
You all raise some interesting points. I, like Col Hajj, could identify all sorts of WWII aircraft by the time I was 11. I love WWII aircraft, yet I hardly ever play WGS, and I have my own reasons. I am not attempting to identify market forces or game-buyers decision patterns; I only know what I like.

For me, it has little to do with which miniatures are available. It is more about my "historical suspension of disbelief". Wings of Glory is primarily a dogfighting game. Air Combat tactics where changing at the start of World War II, mainly owing to emerging technologies such as the radio, the refinement of the piston engine and the genesis of the jet engine, and so on. Before long, air forces that practiced dogfighting were dominated by air forces that practiced energy management tactics. Energy management has a lot to do with trading altitude for airspeed and vice-versa, and Wings of Glory (while my favorite air combat game) does not recreate this aspect of air combat very well.

The second aspect has to do with paint schemes. Since paint schemes varied so greatly on individual aircraft in WWI, I have no problem flying Brown's Camel next to Barker's Camel. It's relatively easy for me to pretend that these to aircraft (for example) met by chance over the front and are flying together for mutual protection. However, I have a hard time flying a Wildcat the supported the North African invasion with a Guadalcanal Wildcat. Even though it helps all the players keep track of their individual aircraft, I guess I know to much about WWII airplanes to be able to justify that to myself. Add to that the fact that I am MOSTLY interested in recreating air combat scenarios that I am familiar with, and it's easy to see that I am just not that excited about purchasing some of the aircraft in the WGS line. I am sure that this is the case across the world - I'm not super-excited about buying Russian Front aircraft, and a Russian player is probably not so interested in buying Guadalcanal aircraft.

So for me, it wouldn't matter if Ares made Corsairs and Mustangs for WGS; I still wouldn't be as emotionally invested in it as I am in WGF.

csadn
12-24-2011, 13:13
How many WW II Air games with pre-painted planes are there? Only one that I know of. Wings of Glory. I bought into the game for exactly that reason. I'm not a military modeller and I don't want to paint planes. I might do a *little* modifying, like changing the number on the AVG planes, but that's about all, so I didn't buy the rules to "Check Your Six" or any of the other "dozens of renditions". WOG fills the need for guys like me that want to play with finished painted models without doing the work, so I don't think that there are any other WW II air combat games that are in direct competition. Not until "Angels 20" comes out anyway. So the market is hardly what i'd call "saturated".

Most of the games I'm thinking of use cardboard counters -- but it hasn't stopped people making and playing with minis; in much the same way folks here have acquired minis from other sources in order to have minis for units which "officially" don't have minis, and where players don't want to use cards (or in some cases I've experienced, don't *allow* card-only units to be used...). As to what constitutes "saturation": This end of the gaming spectrum is, and always has been, a small market -- having two games at the same time could "saturate the market" (ever notice how there's only ever been one truly successful giant-robot-combat game, or only one truly successful fantasy-wargaming game, and so on?).


Any company that releases a pre-painted air combat game has to be realistic about the "contributions of other countries". We know which countries contributed the largest numbers of men and equipment and had the greatest impact on WW II. Those are the nation's planes we want to see represented. And yes, I *do* think that I speak for the majority of Americans that would buy the product. You develop and sell a product to the largest market. That's just common sense.

You might be speaking for "the majority of *AMERICANS*" -- note emphasis -- but what about the rest of the world? (They do exist, you know -- in fact, last I checked, this game was being made by one of them.)

Now, I admit I'm off in left field -- like most of you, I could ID most WW2 acft. when most of the people I went to school with were still trying to figure out which end of the playground smelled the worst; but the "main road" is less interesting *because* everyone else is following it, so I go looking for the unusual stuff. "Romania built a fighter?" "A Coronado took out a H8K?" That sort of thing. (I've been agitating for Evergreen Av. Museum to build a replica of a E14Y1.... :) ) That's the sort of thing I want to play out -- I've done "Spitfire vs. 109" 'til I'm blue in the fingers; I want to do something different -- I want to see the Malta Gladiators taking on CR.42s; I want to pit Frank Tinker's I-16 against early-model 109s; I want to take a Commonwealth Boomerang against an invading Japanese bomber stream; I want to pit a Free French Dewoitine D.520 against a Vichy D.520 (actually got to do that one! :) ). I. Am. *BORED*. With. Mustangs. Versus. Schwalbes.

And if it can bring in some new blood -- some people whose nations' contributions were minor; some people who also want to see the lesser-known units represented -- so much the better. The folks who want only the big-names, there's all sorts of places they can go to get stuff; The Rest Of Us are not so fortunate.

Right -- who put this soapbox under me?

jhary
12-24-2011, 20:53
I knew at least 25 games over the last 30 years who had from all countrys the plane statts inside all had the same Problem they vanished because people want to reancment some Battles who heard about a interesting battle over Holland or Italy? but every one knows the battle for Britain, Pearl harbor, Midway. So is it a wonder when people ask why are not Pairing matches in the serials and why are diferent Collors on the planes.
When comes the Brewster Bufallo its the only plane flown on both sides.

Jager
12-25-2011, 04:42
Lots of good points going here; far too many for me to comment on.
Just my 2 cents: I think the mechanics of WOG works better for WW1 than WW2, for reasons mentioned. There was a lot more going on with 1940s aircraft than 1910s. That said, if Nexus had supported DOW as well as WOW with planes (and came anywhere close to their stated release dates) they would have done better with it.
Karl

gunhawk
12-26-2011, 17:23
>>Most of the games I'm thinking of use cardboard counters -- but it hasn't stopped people making and playing with minis; in much the same way folks here have acquired minis from other sources in order to have minis for units which "officially" don't have minis, and where players don't want to use cards (or in some cases I've experienced, don't *allow* card-only units to be used...).<<

Right. What you're saying is that many many different games on exactly the same subject can be produced and sold as they use different systems and have different points of view...and they can all make money...and the market is *not* saturated.

>>As to what constitutes "saturation": This end of the gaming spectrum is, and always has been, a small market -- having two games at the same time could "saturate the market" (ever notice how there's only ever been one truly successful giant-robot-combat game, or only one truly successful fantasy-wargaming game, and so on?).<<

I've noticed that there are at least *three* truly successful fantasy-wargaming games on the market. "Dungeons and Dragons" which originally required the wargame "Chainmail" to play, "World of Warcraft" which includes large Horde vs. Alliance battles, and "Warhammer". They all involve ogres, humans, elves etc. banging away at each other, so yes I think that they are, at the root, exactly the same sort of game. Not to mention the fact that "truly successful" is arbitrary and depends on what was meant to be achieved in the first place.

It's interesting to note that wargamers interested in any specific area or type of combat will buy and play *many* games involving that particular subject. For instance, I have several WW II small unit action games. Among others, I own and play: Squad Leader, Combat Commander, Conflict of Heroes, Flames of War, Axis & Allies Land Miniatures, Frontline General and Up Front. And if a new game came out tomorrow that I thought looked good, I'd buy it!



>>You might be speaking for "the majority of *AMERICANS*" -- note emphasis -- but what about the rest of the world? (They do exist, you know -- in fact, last I checked, this game was being made by one of them.)<<

Business is business. Will France buy as many WOG planes and sets as the USA? Will the number even be *close*?

>>And if it can bring in some new blood -- some people whose nations' contributions were minor; some people who also want to see the lesser-known units represented -- so much the better.<<

If it's going to costs them customers I doubt that Nexus will agree with you. Which is why the French P-40 in the starter set is so baffling to many of us.

>>The folks who want only the big-names, there's all sorts of places they can go to get stuff; The Rest Of Us are not so fortunate.<<

Actually there aren't. There is no other pre-painted WW II aircraft game on the market...yet.

csadn
12-27-2011, 15:57
What you're saying is that many many different games on exactly the same subject can be produced and sold as they use different systems and have different points of view...and they can all make money...and the market is *not* saturated.

I should have clarified: While there are many games, they've been released in ones and twos over many years (I think my oldest is from sometime in the late '70s, but I'd have to dig it up). Each of them sold for a little while, then faded away (and typically the company faded away with it). This would suggest the "pool" for these games is more like a puddle.


I've noticed that there are at least *three* truly successful fantasy-wargaming games on the market. "Dungeons and Dragons" which originally required the wargame "Chainmail" to play, "World of Warcraft" which includes large Horde vs. Alliance battles, and "Warhammer".

In three distinctly different formats, and thus three distinct markets: Paper RPG; Computer RPG; Miniatures Wargaming. (And of those, guess which one is counting sales and profits in the "hundreds of millions of dollars" range? Hint: It ain't the Paper RPG or the Miniatures Wargaming selection.)


It's interesting to note that wargamers interested in any specific area or type of combat will buy and play *many* games involving that particular subject. For instance, I have several WW II small unit action games. Among others, I own and play: Squad Leader, Combat Commander, Conflict of Heroes, Flames of War, Axis & Allies Land Miniatures, Frontline General and Up Front. And if a new game came out tomorrow that I thought looked good, I'd buy it!

Same here -- I'm a historian by training; and I like to see how different people cover the same territory (as we were taught, "one" is not a sufficiently large citation size :) ). But another part of it is what I mentioned earlier: Most of the companies which made these games had the lifespan of a bicyclist at a demolition derby -- two, maybe three years, then *poof*. No more company; no more game products. (What happened to Nexus? :P )


Business is business. Will France buy as many WOG planes and sets as the USA? Will the number even be *close*?

Admittedly, this argument can be framed from either direction -- is it "there's no market, therefore they should not be made", or "no one makes them, therefore there's no market"? (And the way the computer RPGs are going: In five years, is it going to matter one way or the other? :P )

gunhawk
12-27-2011, 19:29
Admittedly, this argument can be framed from either direction -- is it "there's no market, therefore they should not be made", or "no one makes them, therefore there's no market"? (And the way the computer RPGs are going: In five years, is it going to matter one way or the other? :P )

Don't over complicate it. The question is very simple. By putting a French P-40 in the starter will Nexus sell more or less units, worldwide, than if you put a USAAF P-40 in it.

Shivaja
12-28-2011, 03:12
Hi guys i see that discussion is wide here i have to agree on one think the selection of planes for the starter box is very poor and if i already did not play the game i would not probably buy the game the first deluxe box got me when i see spitfire, messer, zero, and wildcat inside . who apart of aviation freks like us hell even knows that Re.2001 Falco II was ww2 fighter airplane none of the regular customers out there. so IMHO what they shall did was to keep the already done 3rd edition together as whole and produce another 4 new planes for the starter box even if that meant to take some old already in game model and put it there with different camo and pilot but they are still well known planes that weren't done yet example Mustang, Corsair, FW-190.

Oberst Hajj
12-28-2011, 03:36
Same here -- I'm a historian by training; and I like to see how different people cover the same territory (as we were taught, "one" is not a sufficiently large citation size :) ). But another part of it is what I mentioned earlier: Most of the companies which made these games had the lifespan of a bicyclist at a demolition derby -- two, maybe three years, then *poof*. No more company; no more game products. (What happened to Nexus? :P )

Exactly, and which marketing plan did Nexus follow? I'll say it again, for their main product releases, they should stick to the big 4 and focus on covering historical periods. The cash flow generated by that would allow them to make the unique stuff... which I think is great (even though I'll pretty much never field any of the three Falco IIs that I own).

Although, all of this would/could be pointless if Ares can keep a consistent and semi rapid release of new miniatures.

Zoe Brain
12-28-2011, 04:33
Exactly, and which marketing plan did Nexus follow? I'll say it again, for their main product releases, they should stick to the big 4 and focus on covering historical periods.
A Cunning Plan would be to release the oddities to capture the European market in France and Italy. Then to release expansions covering the Pacific and Main Events on the Eastern and Western fronts, to get the mainstream - who will end up buying the original pack anyway. Do it the other way round, you get the mainstream, but are unlikely to cash in on Europe.

grumpybear
12-28-2011, 05:15
Like it or not it's a lot better than the nothing we have new in how long. I have a hard time to remember when my LGS had anything new.

Oberst Hajj
12-28-2011, 05:41
A Cunning Plan would be to release the oddities to capture the European market in France and Italy. Then to release expansions covering the Pacific and Main Events on the Eastern and Western fronts, to get the mainstream - who will end up buying the original pack anyway. Do it the other way round, you get the mainstream, but are unlikely to cash in on Europe.

I know my local group (my self included) would most likely not buy the oddities packs. For the most part, us Yanks are single minded when it comes to WWII. Put out the oddities first and I think they would miss out on a lot of the initial cash flow... which is unbelievably important to a business.

gunhawk
12-28-2011, 07:36
A Cunning Plan would be to release the oddities to capture the European market in France and Italy. Then to release expansions covering the Pacific and Main Events on the Eastern and Western fronts, to get the mainstream - who will end up buying the original pack anyway. Do it the other way round, you get the mainstream, but are unlikely to cash in on Europe.

Not so cunning. The sensible thing to do, as Keith says, is to get that cash flow going by selling to the largest market first. Even though the economy in the USA is in pretty bad shape, i'd bet a large bunch of cash that more starters will be sold in the USA than in any other single country.

Marechallannes
12-28-2011, 08:00
Sounds easy. Produce a few years for the american market. When the business is running they may bring a few italian or russian planes...:p

Think Aresgames has no choice at the moment.:serious:

The try to sell as many (already) existing Series III planes as possible to earn money. The try to reach as many players as possible by releasing the miniatures and starter sets in english.

I like a Me 110 and a "Speedy D" Helldiver much more then a Yak or a Reggio Falco, too.

But I'am shure, if the would have the possibility to bring a starterset with more popular planes, they would do it.




...and I'am happy that they didn't follow the mainstream.:FOK:

Nightbomber
12-28-2011, 08:11
Frankly, the schemes are not so important to me, although it could be fine to have the P-40 in American or Commonwealth colors.
I would repaint the existing ones, but the problem I faced is... decals for 1:200 planes. Does anybody know a supplier of those?

skystalker
12-28-2011, 08:21
Check this thread for starters http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?865-1-200-WWII-decals

Nightbomber
12-28-2011, 08:40
To continue my last post concerning repaintig of WGII minis: we are in a far better position for the actual colours of the WWII planes are much better documented. There are some lines of decent paints on the market that could be used for that purpose. Colour schemes were much more unified for particular air forces (and thus less fun as well!).

Thanks Bob - it was helpful:thumbsup:

csadn
12-28-2011, 13:54
A Cunning Plan would be to release the oddities to capture the European market in France and Italy. Then to release expansions covering the Pacific and Main Events on the Eastern and Western fronts, to get the mainstream - who will end up buying the original pack anyway. Do it the other way round, you get the mainstream, but are unlikely to cash in on Europe.

I had a similar notion -- trying to market one product to the world has proven a hard sell in bigger markets than gaming. There would, of course, be adjustments in the number produced for a given market; the pack marketed towards, say, France (1-2 each French-marked and German-marked units) would not be as widely produced as the one for Britain (as above, replacing French markings with British).

Tho', as has been noted: The company needs to start with "producing product on schedule", which damned-few gaming co's have ever managed to accomplish for any length of time.

jhary
12-28-2011, 15:04
Nexus died because the didn´t support the Customers. They worked like theire games where CCG.

Oberst Hajj
12-29-2011, 01:08
Nexus died because the didn´t support the Customers. They worked like theire games where CCG.

How so? I know if you contacted Nexus/FFG they would replace damage parts pretty quickly. I don't think you will find a game with a more supporting creator either. I think just about the only thing you could say negative about Nexus was there manufacturing issue. And while some of the blame does belong to them for that, certainly not all of it. I've never once felt like this was a CCG.

Jager
12-29-2011, 02:36
Frankly, the schemes are not so important to me, although it could be fine to have the P-40 in American or Commonwealth colors.
I would repaint the existing ones, but the problem I faced is... decals for 1:200 planes. Does anybody know a supplier of those?

Perhaps not a problem for you, me or a large number on the forum, but it is a problem for their whole target market. As mentioned many times here, the big boost Nexus got with WOW was the pre-painted minis; unless Ares can grab attention with planes a majority of the market wants, they won't generate the revenue to continue.
I agree, they probably went with what was in the pipeline, ready to go, but in the future, they need to make "mainstream" planes that the majority of the market wants. And keep their release times tighter than Nexus.

Karl

StuKa
12-29-2011, 03:13
Nexus died because the didn´t support the Customers. They worked like theire games where CCG.

I think the german distributors "Mad Man´s Magic" back then and "Heidelberger Spieleverlag" now did and do a very good job concerning the customer service (Heidelberger SV was apart from that possibly even better than "MMM"). In the few situations i needed to draft on the customer services, i never had any problems to get my defects on the products cleared. But also Nexus itself had in my opinion a great service.

In my exemplar of the "Famous Aces" box, for example, a particular maneuver deck was absent. At the "SPIEL" in Essen (a big trade fair for baord- and cardgames etc. in Germany), i went to the Nexus stand and spoke to I think it was Piergiorgio Paglia and explained him the situation. He smiled, gave me a complete new "Watch your Back" box, in which the missing maneuver deck was included too, and told me i should take it as redress. That was a really fair gesture!

So I personally cannot say anything bad about the customer service here in Germany!

Oberst Hajj
12-29-2011, 03:25
I'm afraid it is worse than that. I agree they had to use the planes that were already in the pipeline, but for the Starter Set, they could have at least picked the "correct" color schemes. As it stands now, with only the starter set, you can't play a historical match up. I don't have a lot of research material on the Italian side of things in WWII, but I can't find a match up between a desert French unit and any Falco IIs. I also can't find a Yak vs. Falco II fight either. So, no European match ups. The Japanese plane is left all alone as well in this set. Had they put the AVG P-40 in this set instead, we could at least do a Pacific mission that had the planes if not the pilots.

Jager
12-29-2011, 04:08
Well, yes, I didn't really pay attention to that; after noting that the pilots I was interested in were'nt in the Starter Set, I kind of phased that out of my thinking.
It is a major marketing blunder; lets hope they can recover from it with the other releases.
Karl

jhary
12-29-2011, 09:02
How so? I know if you contacted Nexus/FFG they would replace damage parts pretty quickly. I don't think you will find a game with a more supporting creator either. I think just about the only thing you could say negative about Nexus was there manufacturing issue. And while some of the blame does belong to them for that, certainly not all of it. I've never once felt like this was a CCG.

You miss Understood what i meant. Spare parts are fine but if i can not buy the regular game because its not in Production any more its an call for Business Death.

Oberst Hajj
12-29-2011, 09:15
Oh, I agree that if you can't buy it because it's not currently in production that it puts the game on life support at best. I don't think that means they ran it like a CCG though. I actually think that it was their choice for planes in both WWI and WWI and how they manufactured them that knocked the wind out of the company.... but that brings this thread way off topic! lol

Baldrick62
12-29-2011, 10:07
... cash in on Europe.

And there was me thinking that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was the only one trying to to that!

jhary
12-29-2011, 10:37
Oh, I agree that if you can't buy it because it's not currently in production that it puts the game on life support at best. I don't think that means they ran it like a CCG though. I actually think that it was their choice for planes in both WWI and WWI and how they manufactured them that knocked the wind out of the company.... but that brings this thread way off topic! lol

If i look moore in the future i have my doubs, because the WW1 Starter is Bombers no fancy fighters. Hope that this is not a other mistake.

David Manley
12-29-2011, 11:20
I don't think that means they ran it like a CCG though.

Indeed. Most CCGs are run much better :)


If i look moore in the future i have my doubs, because the WW1 Starter is Bombers no fancy fighters. Hope that this is not a other mistake.

As Herr Oberst said, a whole new topic - but I think we are all hoping that "series 5" and a WW1 starter set hits the streets VERY quickly after the bombers.

jbmacek
12-29-2011, 13:51
Indeed. Most CCGs are run much better :)

I suspect they are much easier to produce too. It seems to me just getting the packaging for WoW all shipshape must have been a task unto itself.


As Herr Oberst said, a whole new topic - but I think we are all hoping that "series 5" and a WW1 starter set hits the streets VERY quickly after the bombers.

VERY! I'll raise a glass to that! Series 5 by late spring would be nice.

Dwarflord22
12-29-2011, 17:21
Oh, I agree that if you can't buy it because it's not currently in production that it puts the game on life support at best. I don't think that means they ran it like a CCG though. I actually think that it was their choice for planes in both WWI and WWI and how they manufactured them that knocked the wind out of the company.... but that brings this thread way off topic! lol

What is a CCG? :confused:

jbmacek
12-29-2011, 17:31
What is a CCG? :confused:

Collectible Card Game, e.g., Magic the Gathering.

BobP
01-07-2012, 13:48
I have my order coming in hopefully this week. I posted some pics of what called the Last BiPlanes and NEXUS had a set of card by that name (thats why I called it that). I think ARES could make a series based on these planes. Interwar planes that where in the start of WWII.

Diamondback
01-07-2012, 13:54
IIRC, that was planned for WoW-WWII Series 4 or 5, before Nexus folded.

FrankJamison
01-25-2012, 16:08
From the Ares Facebook page:



The WW2 Wings of Glory Starter Set is here! And shipping out of China after the Chinese New Year holidays. Look for it in good stores around the World in early March.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/AresGames


That is one big box!


http://pics.livejournal.com/capt_tyranus/pic/000wxygt

Jeff Cope
01-25-2012, 16:14
Awesomeness! Gives me time to save up some dough!

CappyTom
01-29-2012, 04:48
Good news indeed.

Thomas

alpine
01-29-2012, 09:14
What a nice looking box. Can't wait!

BobP
01-29-2012, 13:26
All please don't take this in the wrong way but if they are reported to be shipping and there are pictures posted why is in now being said that they will be out in March? I know they are talking about the bombers being out in March but I also saw a post about the series 3 WWII planes. I have seen pictures of the WWII bombers and the Series 5 WWI planes. I know this is new for ARES but have been waiting months for these planes. Just I am just gettin frustrated buy released in Oct, sorry new company now Jan, oh shipping in Jan and may be released in March. Just my vent.

jbmacek
01-29-2012, 14:26
Fwiw, the bombers are scheduled for April.

As for the WWII boxed set... I'm sold. I don't have anything for the WWII line, but I figure I'll get this just because.

jhary
01-29-2012, 16:02
All please don't take this in the wrong way but if they are reported to be shipping and there are pictures posted why is in now being said that they will be out in March? I know they are talking about the bombers being out in March but I also saw a post about the series 3 WWII planes. I have seen pictures of the WWII bombers and the Series 5 WWI planes. I know this is new for ARES but have been waiting months for these planes. Just I am just gettin frustrated buy released in Oct, sorry new company now Jan, oh shipping in Jan and may be released in March. Just my vent.

Normal delays BobP. As "Old" Wargamer Rpg-Veteran Gamer i can tell you that a 6 week delay means no delay at all.

BobP
01-30-2012, 15:12
Guys sorry again but 6 weeks I can take but 6 months. My first preorder was back in Sept when they were announced. Are they shippin on a Chineese Junk? As I said pardon this vent. It just seems delay after delay. Also when you see others with the product makes you wonder. As I said before I have seen pics of the Series 5 WWI minis, the WWI bombers and the WWII bombers. Again sorry for the vent about this.

jhary
01-30-2012, 16:40
Guys sorry again but 6 weeks I can take but 6 months. My first preorder was back in Sept when they were announced. Are they shippin on a Chineese Junk? As I said pardon this vent. It just seems delay after delay. Also when you see others with the product makes you wonder. As I said before I have seen pics of the Series 5 WWI minis, the WWI bombers and the WWII bombers. Again sorry for the vent about this.

No they don´t use Chineese Junk they hire Dwarf size pilots and let every model fly in ;-)

Oberst Hajj
01-31-2012, 00:48
The pics you saw of Series 5 and the bombers were the prototype models. Proofs of concept. No one has them, so you are not missing out on anything. lol Well, maybe time play with them!

BobP
01-31-2012, 12:55
Sounds good to me.

Blauer Baron
06-15-2012, 02:59
Dear All, what does the WWII H and E deck bring with it compared to WWII A,B,C,D?:confused:

I have been searching for an hour to find info...yet again...:mad:Finding info on the site is getting more difficult. Any tips on refining searches? There was a french site with the WWI movement cards spread out to see their characterisitcs, that is brillaint.:D Is their anything similar for WWII? Thanks in advace:thumbsup: Herr Baron.

Kaiser
06-15-2012, 03:11
This might be helpful :)
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?9245-DoW-Maneuver-Decks-Overview&p=134093&viewfull=1#post134093

Basically they are the same was the B deck but with higher slow speed values (and thus greater turning radius). Also their Side Slips are somewhat more limited.

Blauer Baron
06-15-2012, 03:55
Perfect Daniel. Thank you!

Man kann auch ein Paar H u E Karten auf Mercellaines Spielanwiesungsblätter sehen, die in dem nächsten Eintrag nach Deinem kommen...

Grüße aus Berlin..