ALJ
12-18-2009, 07:55
Hello
I've just bough the deluxe version of DaW and I really like the idea of the game. I've been playing games like IL2:Sturmovik for some time and it's really funny how DaW captures so many aspects of air combat (while leaving out the really boring ones). It's also funny how people not into flight combat can never remember the name of the Immelmann maneouvre. So far we've heard hilarious names such as Irmelmann, Himmelmann, Mimmelmann, Bimmelmann, Heimlich and even Murmelmann. Those who understand german will probably have an even bigger laugh. :D
Anyways, I've been playing a handful of games with my friends and while it's a funny game most of the time, it just feels very weird sometimes. We usually play a 2vs2 fight but it always starts dragging out once we reach 1vs1. The big problem here seems to be that the new way of planning cards does not allow for much luck or at least surprise. I have not tried the original WoW game but as far as I understand, in that version you pick 3 manouvre cards and place them. Then when all 3 are used, you plan and pick 3 new cards.
1. One of the problems with DaW compared to the WoW method seems to be that you only actually plan 1 card at a time. This makes it extremely hard to do any kind of surprising move. Once you get in a circle fight, the other person will easily counter any try to do something else because the reaction time is much too short. If you turn right in a left-going circle fight, so does you opponent and then you simply move the circle a bit. Except for a very, very few maneuvers, all the planes have pretty much the same movement. There are very few "Hah! Gotcha!"-moments in my opinion and a vast amount of "I tried to outsmart you but now the situation is exactly the same as 15 minutes ago"-moments. How can we prevent this from happening?
2. Who really wants to fly the Wildcat? All axis planes handle much better, climb faster and have more firepower. The only maneuver the Wildcat can surprise with is probably the Immelman. However, in our experience the C+C+A damage of Axis planes usually deal much more damage than B+B so when the Wildcat does an Immelman, the Axis players simply line up a head-to-head short-range combat. How are you supposed to use the Wildcat?
3. How do you counter an Immelman when chasing somebody? My first idea from my IL2 background would be to simply shoot him. However, as mentioned before, in our experience Axis seems to have an edge in head-to-head combat so for allies this is not really an option. If we take an example of me being at around 4-5 o'clock of the guy I'm chasing but not in range, my best idea is currently to try and figure out the Immelmann and turn hard right when I sense he is about to use his fast straight. Then I sideslip even further to the right (or stall, depending on the angle/range) - this should leave me flying at his 4 o'clock but with my plane flying in parallel to his. I can then turn a hard left when he plays hes slow straight and hopefully I will turn towards him and hit him, while having passed his cone of fire. However, very often you end up in his cone anyway, overshoot or collide with him, as the planes move quite long even with slow movement. Does anybody have other tactics regarding this?
4. Will new planes come out with more different characteristics? Honestly, the planes handle almost exactly the same but have different levels of firepower. This, combined with the very low level of surprise because you only plan one card at a time, leads to unnessecarily long and boring fights, in my opinion. Could new planes make up for this with different movement?
This ended up with a very long post I guess. I'd like to hear if anybody has suggestions on all of this or have the same experiences? I'm thinking about buying the WWI version instead as the dogfights might be more random, but seemingly also more unpredictable and fun. I've not given up on WWII as we still need some more games and optional rules tested but I just wanted to hear if anybody had the same problems. :)
I've just bough the deluxe version of DaW and I really like the idea of the game. I've been playing games like IL2:Sturmovik for some time and it's really funny how DaW captures so many aspects of air combat (while leaving out the really boring ones). It's also funny how people not into flight combat can never remember the name of the Immelmann maneouvre. So far we've heard hilarious names such as Irmelmann, Himmelmann, Mimmelmann, Bimmelmann, Heimlich and even Murmelmann. Those who understand german will probably have an even bigger laugh. :D
Anyways, I've been playing a handful of games with my friends and while it's a funny game most of the time, it just feels very weird sometimes. We usually play a 2vs2 fight but it always starts dragging out once we reach 1vs1. The big problem here seems to be that the new way of planning cards does not allow for much luck or at least surprise. I have not tried the original WoW game but as far as I understand, in that version you pick 3 manouvre cards and place them. Then when all 3 are used, you plan and pick 3 new cards.
1. One of the problems with DaW compared to the WoW method seems to be that you only actually plan 1 card at a time. This makes it extremely hard to do any kind of surprising move. Once you get in a circle fight, the other person will easily counter any try to do something else because the reaction time is much too short. If you turn right in a left-going circle fight, so does you opponent and then you simply move the circle a bit. Except for a very, very few maneuvers, all the planes have pretty much the same movement. There are very few "Hah! Gotcha!"-moments in my opinion and a vast amount of "I tried to outsmart you but now the situation is exactly the same as 15 minutes ago"-moments. How can we prevent this from happening?
2. Who really wants to fly the Wildcat? All axis planes handle much better, climb faster and have more firepower. The only maneuver the Wildcat can surprise with is probably the Immelman. However, in our experience the C+C+A damage of Axis planes usually deal much more damage than B+B so when the Wildcat does an Immelman, the Axis players simply line up a head-to-head short-range combat. How are you supposed to use the Wildcat?
3. How do you counter an Immelman when chasing somebody? My first idea from my IL2 background would be to simply shoot him. However, as mentioned before, in our experience Axis seems to have an edge in head-to-head combat so for allies this is not really an option. If we take an example of me being at around 4-5 o'clock of the guy I'm chasing but not in range, my best idea is currently to try and figure out the Immelmann and turn hard right when I sense he is about to use his fast straight. Then I sideslip even further to the right (or stall, depending on the angle/range) - this should leave me flying at his 4 o'clock but with my plane flying in parallel to his. I can then turn a hard left when he plays hes slow straight and hopefully I will turn towards him and hit him, while having passed his cone of fire. However, very often you end up in his cone anyway, overshoot or collide with him, as the planes move quite long even with slow movement. Does anybody have other tactics regarding this?
4. Will new planes come out with more different characteristics? Honestly, the planes handle almost exactly the same but have different levels of firepower. This, combined with the very low level of surprise because you only plan one card at a time, leads to unnessecarily long and boring fights, in my opinion. Could new planes make up for this with different movement?
This ended up with a very long post I guess. I'd like to hear if anybody has suggestions on all of this or have the same experiences? I'm thinking about buying the WWI version instead as the dogfights might be more random, but seemingly also more unpredictable and fun. I've not given up on WWII as we still need some more games and optional rules tested but I just wanted to hear if anybody had the same problems. :)