View Full Version : Disappointment from Shapeways!!!
After receiving a couple of orders from Shapeways with perfectly formed aircraft, I just received an order with 3 out of 4 planes being unusable as they arrived! While a Fokker E.IV came in good condition, 2 Sopwith Tripes were mangled and a Halberstadt D.II had extremely droopy wings. I noted that the mangling of the Tripes was due to the planes pushing on each other - body of one against the wings of the other. No cause seen for the Halb problem. However the box was extremely tightly packed with packing material. :mad:
Zoe Brain
10-24-2011, 20:05
Take photos, contact Shapeways, tell them that they have a problem with overtight packing (and get replacements).
What material? I've never seen droop with WSF. In any event, unacceptable regardless. They damage themselves by shipping obviously defective products and/or packing them without thought. They need to know that there is a problem here to prevent recurrence.
I tried the trick of dipping them in boiling water and it was remarkable how they corrected themselves into acceptable models. One of the Tripes took about 4 dips and a bit of finger shaping but the other two spring back like they were made of springs. The droop and warping must have been from been packed too tightly with each other.
Zoe Brain
10-24-2011, 21:54
Glad the trick worked. WSF should have an inherent "memory" if stressed beyond its elastic modulus. Heat should relax it enough so it goes back unless too badly warped. Then more heat plus pressure can correct it.
I've posted this on the Shapeways Forum so that they're aware of the issue. This should never have happened, but since it is happening, it should be easy for them to correct.
They've already made some improvements in the way they do things, but until they get consistency, we have to inform them when things go wrong, and they have to make things good.
They had some bugs in the printing system initially, that's pretty obvious. My first Tripehounds finish is nowhere near as good as the last batch of planes I got from them.
To see the progress, look at these pictures:
First batches looked like this - a lot of work needed:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14067&stc=1&d=1307036826
Despite what they said about angles, sometimes the settings on the printer weren't correct, and we'd get defective rubbish like this:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15910&d=1309515996
That was soon improved, and this was the result, even months ago:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14068&stc=1&d=1307036826
I think that's about where we are now as the minimum for WSF.
Good photo hstory of Shapeways progress, Zoe. Shapeways has always done right by me and they'll work with a customer if you let them know. My experience has been that they catch the problem and advise me of it and take care of it. I'm sorry, Mike, that you had those problems.
Mitchell Jetten
10-25-2011, 03:20
Hi Mike,
I'm sorry that this happened to you.
We are having difficulties with our White Detail Materials for airplanes.
It seems that the weight of the models making the smalls sprues in the model warping or breaking due to the pressure.
If there are any problems with your models, please make a picture and send an email to service@shapeways.com
This way we can make a complaint of it, and see what is going on and how we can help you out.
Mitchell Jetten
Customer service
Shapeways
See what I mean? That's what I was writing about.
Zoe Brain
10-25-2011, 03:48
Mitchell Jetten
Customer service
Shapeways
That's one area they got right from Day One. Customer Service. Congrats Mitchell - it's just as important that you get feedback for Quality Assurance purposes on what you're doing right, as to what goes wrong. Thanks for keeping up the good work there.
Mitchell Jetten
10-25-2011, 07:55
Great to hear this guys :)
if you have any question which has to be answered on the forum here, email me the link (mitchell@shapeways.com)
Guntruck
10-26-2011, 14:56
As related in another thread, I complained to Shapeways about receiving a Vickers FB5 with broken struts , broken tail and banana wings. I received the replacement today - with banana wings!!!:brickwal::brickwal::brickwal: When you are paying 24 euros for one aircraft, you do feel this is taking the piss a bit!
I suppose that the fact that nothing was broken off it shows some improvement in QA, but for crying out loud, doesn't anyone there look at the bloody things before they are packed and go "hmmm, that's not right"?
Sadly we are between a rock and a hard place because Shapeways are producing aircraft not available elsewhere yet you are being held hostage to the vagaries of their QA - or lack of.
I ordered a D.VII (against my better judgement) in three different finishes from Shapeways and none were even in the same ball park as a WoW model. I have yet to see a well finished Shapeways model :cheezy:.
I'll just bide my time :pint::pint::pint:until the WoG planes come out.
I bought a big order of them and I was satisfied. No I was not even considering them as good as Wow official plane when I ordered them. But they are good replacement for plane that cannot be found. And I have great faith that the quality is going to be getting better as technology advance. I'm painting my 3 Morane Bullets right now. I have been waiting for them a long time and even got burned with Sora planes that where really not in 1/144 scale. The planes are great looking, but too big for playing.
Pseudotheist
10-26-2011, 17:57
We are having difficulties with our White Detail Materials for airplanes
Can you comment on whether Frosted Detail has similar problems or not? I assume that finish is smoother than WSF.
Mitchell welcome to the aerodrome site
Great to have someone from Shapeways involved.
I have 10 of your aircraft they arrived safely having travelled all the way from The Netherlands to New Zealand and I am very happy with them.:):thumbsup:
Linz
Guntruck
10-27-2011, 02:29
Can you comment on whether Frosted Detail has similar problems or not? I assume that finish is smoother than WSF.
I would suggest the answer is 'yes', as that is the material the Gunbus was made from.
Zoe Brain
10-27-2011, 02:37
I would suggest the answer is 'yes', as that is the material the Gunbus was made from.
Try the hot water treatment - though you may have to do some bending. Use boiling water here. :crash:
David Manley
10-27-2011, 03:09
Happy Happy Joy Joy from Shapeways here at the Bristol Aircraft Factory, as Mr. UPS has just delivered a large parcel of early war goodness :)
A Vickers FB.5, two Albatros D.II, two Roland D.II, two Morane Saulnier N and a Farman F.40. All look to be very well made, no issues from what I've seen.
Actually, its a bit better than that. Shapeways emailed me a few days back to tell me the order would unfortunately be delayed as the Farman model was damaged and they were reprinting it. I was very pleased to receive not only the reprint but also the damaged model, which will be entering the hangar for some restorative work, or to be come a wreck/objective marker.
All being well at least some of these will make it to the Iron Acton game this weekend,
Guntruck
10-27-2011, 05:16
Try the hot water treatment - though you may have to do some bending. Use boiling water here. :crash:
Yes Zoe, I know that works, but at 24 euros I don't expect to have to do that.
Happy Happy Joy Joy from Shapeways here at the Bristol Aircraft Factory, as Mr. UPS has just delivered a large parcel of early war goodness :)
A Vickers FB.5, two Albatros D.II, two Roland D.II, two Morane Saulnier N and a Farman F.40. All look to be very well made, no issues from what I've seen.:
Now you're just rubbing it in!
David Manley
10-27-2011, 05:42
I'll just bide my time until the WoG planes come out.
Yes, then you can enjoy bizarre paint schemes like the pink Roland and the oft-commented upon Rickenbacker Spad, aircraft with struts on the wrong way round and others with struts as thick as large treetrunks :)
Granted, Shapeways aren't ideal in some respects but then neither are anyone else's products. I can forgive some degree of error and inaccuracy in my WoW models as I can with my Skytrex and Rivireso models (struts often replaced with brass rod, need a lot of cleaning up), and my Shapeways models (need a couple of coats of undercoat to improve the finish).
On the subject of Rolands (and for the benefit of Boney10 and Burt) I've managed to get a pink one and repainted it ina more conventional brown. of course i still have the pink one for sentimental reasons :)
Rabbit 3
10-27-2011, 11:17
On the subject of Rolands (and for the benefit of Boney10 and Burt) I've managed to get a pink one and repainted it ina more conventional brown. of course i still have the pink one for sentimental reasons
Strange, given the inaccuracy that this is the one of the three that has become the most hard to get while the two blue versions are still relatively easy to find.
I just don`t get `collectors` sometimes, I would have thought that the MvR version would have been more popular.
The MvR one possibly is less popular since it doesn't have a forward gun. The other blue one's got a horrible (IMO) "fish" decal on the fuselage. The pink camo one's easy to repaint, and it does have that cool shark's mouth marking.
Albert Ross
10-27-2011, 14:05
Strange, given the inaccuracy that this is the one of the three that has become the most hard to get while the two blue versions are still relatively easy to find.
I just don`t get `collectors` sometimes, I would have thought that the MvR version would have been more popular.
It may be rare, but it's appearances in the skies here have caused the Valley Flight to lose many a brave young pilot:eek:
It may be rare, but it's appearances in the skies here have caused the Valley Flight to lose many a brave young pilot:eek:
Flying it or gunning for it?
Karl
Rat of Vengence
10-27-2011, 18:13
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but have we come to a consensus as to which finish is the best one to go for? I DON'T want a lousy finish to the surface of the model, but I don't want it bent either.
What do you reccommend?
Dave
Zoe Brain
10-27-2011, 19:21
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but have we come to a consensus as to which finish is the best one to go for? I DON'T want a lousy finish to the surface of the model, but I don't want it bent either.
What do you reccommend?
WSF. It needs work, no question. White Detailed (if unbent) is as good or better than any other (Riviresco, Skytex, Nexus, F-Toys...)
WSF needs both sealing and varnishing before painting. Sanding isn't really on, the nylon's too tough.
In cases such as lozenged aircraft, where it's going to be covered with a decal skin anyway, you still need a smoothing coat underneath for the decal to adhere to.
I haven't tried it... but in theory you should be able to get away with 2-3 coats of cheap household spray enamel or acryllic paint at closer than normal range as the base. This would normally obliterate fine detail on a model, leaving only coarser detail. Which is usually undesirable, but in this case, it's the finest "detail" you want to get rid of, the coarser detail such as engravure for ailerons, ribbing etc the only thing you want to retain.
It would take about 3 minutes of extra time.
I find double-dipping in sealant, then use of cheap tube acryllics from an arts store (1/3 the price of humbrol, 10x the amount, consistency of gel toothpaste) to be adequate.
25711
25712
25713
All those are WSF.
Method:
1. Immerse in acryllic floor sealant (using tweezers is a good idea). Take out, store nose down to let it dry for 4 hours. Takes 30 secs.
2. Use coarse brush dipped in turps to clean off over-accumulation on wing leading edges, etc. Takes 20 secs.
3. Repeat steps 1 & 2
4. Let dry overnight.
5. Paint in your favourite method. I use overall linen, then paint over that.
6. Use gloss varnish to give decals a good surface to stick on.
7. Put on decals. A thin coat of 3:1 PVA glue/water may help them adhere. (That Morane fuselage decal needed it!)
8. Dullcote 24 hours later.
Here are faulty ones painted up... it doesnt cover the bad model
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16117&d=1309862706
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20529&d=1313501412
These were both in WSF (white strong Flexible )
This was a later version , a bit better but furry, again WSF
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20109&d=1313059356
One of the latest ones, still a bit grainy but far far better
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24126&d=1317657621
Rat of Vengence
10-27-2011, 20:42
Thanks heaps Zoe, exactly the sort of info I was after :D
Chris, that was the sort of finish I was wanting to avoid. Did you give them sealant/spray coats before painting like Zoe suggested, or are they examples of what you get with a 'normal' paint job (not sealing to get rid of graininess is what I mean, no reflection on your work!)
Dave
Zoe Brain
10-27-2011, 21:32
It's possible that the paint I use makes a difference.
Here's the brand I use:
http://pawnworld.com.au/Pinball-Chromacryl-paints.jpg
Here's what it looks like when mixed.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Nov-2003/532-palette.jpg
It's about 80% water (as is PVA glue) so dries down to 20% of that volume or less.
Using it unthinned, or lightly thinned, 2-3 coats on their own would give a smooth finish to that Roland. Maybe not completely, but close. A coating of thinned PVA glue before painting might also work.
As regards the DR1s... green stuff :( What a wonderful paint job wasted on such a surface. I wish I had half your talent.
Dave, these were alll just painted with no sealant, I gave each a primer coat of white before starting painting. To be honest the camera does show more than it does to the naked eye..well my poor old ones anyway.
These are at the same sort of distance as a game as the grainyness is not obvious
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24380&d=1318075624
At least you can see the different finishes with & without sealant. My paints are all GW or Revell with some Vallegio
Rat of Vengence
10-27-2011, 22:04
Thanks both of you :)
You are right Chris, I can't see it at gaming distance either, but being a historical (hysterical?) modeller originally, I think I get a bit retentive about these things. That said, I have always wanted a DH2 and a Brisfit, so I might give it a go :)
Out of interest, what colour do any of you use for linen, or the yellowish doped surfaces? Most of my knowledge is WW2 based.
Dave
My apologies to Shapeways for negative coments I have made. At least they are trying to fill a needed gap.
I hope as time goes by, the quality will keep improving. :hatsoff:
Zoe Brain
10-27-2011, 22:47
Out of interest, what colour do any of you use for linen, or the yellowish doped surfaces?
German, French and English all had different dopes.
White with a touch of yellow, more yellow for French, a hint of brown for German (early) or a "warm yellow" (1917).
The DH2 is based on a photo showing that a dope with a distinct yellow tinge was used on that particular aircraft - possibly captured German stock. The lighter French Strutter on an aircraft in a French museum. The rest on aircraft at the Imperial War Museum in London, and the Australian War Memorial in Canberra.
Basically anything cremey with a yellow hint is OK. It all varied with light conditions, age, batch of dope etc.
gully_raker
10-28-2011, 03:45
:salute:G'day All!
Just going to "weigh in" with my input on Colbatman & my own experience with Shapeways.
First off we got 2 Sopwith Tripes in FUD & they were very good. Pics Follow!
25716257172571825719
Col then ordered 2 DH-2's in WSF & whilst they were a bit "chalky" they painted up OK.
Finally we got 2 FB5s & 2 Halberstadt D11s in White Detail & for the price which is just a little more than WSF they are Perfect. Crisp detail, smooth finish etc.
Sorry no pics of these yet but will try to take some in the next day or so.
Col has posted a pic of his DH-2 in the Hobby Section so you can find it there.
A question, please. Has anyone tried Games Workshops new "Liquid Green Stuff" on the rough finished birds from Shapeways?
Christoph
My Sopwith Tris just had their droopy wings removed! A painful experience. I've decided to replace one with brass. Will poat when its done.
A question, please. Has anyone tried Games Workshops new "Liquid Green Stuff" on the rough finished birds from Shapeways?
Christoph
I have got some of the liquid Greenstuff which I am in the process of using on a Reviresco Halberstadt fighter, I shall post up a review of the item in a few days
Thanks both of you :)
Out of interest, what colour do any of you use for linen, or the yellowish doped surfaces? Most of my knowledge is WW2 based.
Dave
I use GW Iyanden Darksun and add a bit of cream paint to lighten to taste as it were
Their Bleached Bone is very close too, at least for the French.
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