Series 3 Reprint replacements: Nieuport 17

[Oberst Hajj]

Andrea has been hinting that the up coming reprints may contain new paint jobs for a few of the planes. This is supposedly based on how well the original paint job sold.

With all of that, which of these would you like to see replaced with a new paint job?


1. Lufbery
http://store.fantasyflightgames.com/client/Products/ProdimageLg/WW13a.jpg


2. Nungesser
http://store.fantasyflightgames.com/client/Products/ProdimageLg/WW13b.jpg


3. Kibanov
http://store.fantasyflightgames.com/client/Products/ProdimageLg/WW13c.jpg

[Boney10]

Sorry Kibanov you have to go !!

[Oberst Hajj]

Yeah, it's not that I've got anything against the guy... I just don't think we need two silver ones.

[Dom S]

I'd have to disagree with that - the *vast* majority of N.17s were silver - camouflage was only on a small number of early production machines, so another camo model would really not be good. (Actually I'd hope any new model would be British anyway, in which case it's gonna be silver....)

[Oberst Hajj]

Are silver and camo the only tow choices?

[Dom S]

Yes, barring a handful of Belgian machines in silver with olive drab upper surfaces, and sales of Olieslagers and the Av Mil RE-8 rather demonstrate how much demand there is(n't....) for Belgie machines....

(Later British Nieuports were PC10, but I think the 17s and 23s were all gone by that time, and it was only on 24s etc, which had a different fuselage.)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Swap Kibanov for Mick Mannock's B 1552 then you can still keep a silver Mc. in the fold. You could also do some more French/ American schemes.
Rob.

[Oberst Hajj]

Silver with olive drab uppers would be pretty cool. Maybe it's just "ignorant Americans", but me and my group could almost not care who the pilot is... just give us some thing that looks good and that we can tell apart on the table top at a glance.

[Oberst Hajj]

This silver and green would be pretty nice:

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1940&d=1252963095

[Oberst Hajj]

Actually, any of these would be nice:

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10279&d=1299688493

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10280&d=1299688493

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10278&d=1299688492

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10277&d=1299688492

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10275&d=1299688491

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10276&d=1299688491

[Du doch nicht!]

There some great looking machines! Id take the one with the dragon for Kibanovs:)

[Danrit]

Ooooh! I'd swap Kibanov for the brown Pere Dorme any time!

[MayorJim]

Ooooh! I'd swap Kibanov for the brown Pere Dorme any time!

Yep...second that

[grumpybear]

All the above look great

[Diamondback]

Can I say "All"? (Ulterior motive: I'm hoping that new releases would make somebody decide they have a surplus Lufbery they might sell me. Hey, at least I'm honest about what my agenda is!)

[The Cowman]

Kibanov for any of the paint schemes shown, and extra paint schemes issued in addition... in fact I do not own a Nungesser, but I could live without one if it meant having one of those other schemes.

[Ed2]

Replace the 23 (Russian), with a silver 28 (USA).

[Diamondback]

Isn't 28 a whole different beast, though, needing either new fuse/tailgroup or new wing?

[Ed2]

Isn't 28 a whole different beast, though, needing either new fuse/tailgroup or new wing?

Yes it is, and I know it won't be a repaint. Just want to plug for a 28.

[Diamondback]

So, let's lobby for either an 11 (similar deal to SPAD VII as far as card-count) or a late-gen (28 and related) in Set 7... looks like 5 is all scouts and 6 all tandems, if I'm reading my plane histories right.

[CappyTom]

I would say all of them cause I love the Nieuport its one of my favorite planes.

[flash]

Lets have something with British markings - please !

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Lets have something with British markings - please !

Here here!
Kyte.

[Hunter]

Yeah, it's not that I've got anything against the guy... I just don't think we need two silver ones.

Right!

[The Red Baron]

Personally would like to see another silver Nieuport, give me a flight of three. Or instead of being lazy I could just repaint one of the existing ones.

[Aero825]

Lufberry because it's boring, and I don't want to see the the only Russian plane in the minis go away. As a replacement, I'd like to see Albert ball's Nieuport. I like it.

[OrlokSubedei]

I do not care which ones go, but sign me up for the dragon! I love planes that have "personality" and that one looks mean, and it adds some color to otherwise drabbish Entente planes.

[Albert Ross]

Yes, barring a handful of Belgian machines in silver with olive drab upper surfaces, and sales of Olieslagers and the Av Mil RE-8 rather demonstrate how much demand there is(n't....) for Belgie machines....

And I suspect a lot of the Camels were purchased for repaints - two of mine were:camel::camel:

[Hunter]

Replace the 23 (Russian), with a silver 28 (USA).

Yes indeed! Trade the N23 for a N28. We need the N28. Yippy Ki Yay, Ed!

[Ginarley]

I'd like to see a B-firing Nieuport 17 for completeness. Otherwise no particular preference.

[Goering Ace]

I chose Lufbery only because it was a toss up between Kibanov and him. I like Kibanov's name better and the two planes look nearly identical to me. So I just picked one. LOL!

[Mike George]

would love to see Ball's Nieuport

[greenalfonzo]

I voted for replacing all the planes. As pictured above, there are a HUGE number of cool planes out there which could be made that are just as nice as the ones we have.

I would also prefer they do 4 fighters in the repaint series to only 2 two-seaters. The fighters are MUCH more popular. i will not buy any repainted two seaters, but will buy as many scouts as they can make.

[Timmo UK]

As long as they do a 1 squadron RFC in silver I don't mind which go.

[milcoll73]

as with the albatross dIII once again id say replace ALL of them to get more paintjobs in the mix

[Zoe Brain]

Ball

138976


Thieffry

138977


Dorme

138978

[prymus]

Nice Zoe, scrap the old 3 and get 3 new schemes. Your 3 would be sweet.

[Boney10]

Three nice new schemes, unfortunately, the problem being a re-painter, I have already done all three of these.
So when official ones come out,I suppose I will have to repaint my repaints, gives me three more Neiuports I suppose :)

[Barkmann]

I guess that Lufbery should go out. Nothing against him, just that i prefer the others. Besides, i liked a lot that Belgium scheme Zoe showed us.
Thanks


Nick

[prymus]

gives me three more Neiuports I suppose :)

One can never have too many Nieuports imho.

[Doug]

I have to echo earlier posts, at least one British model.

[Du doch nicht!]

Definitely a british Nieuport... perhaps Albert Ball's?

[Diamondback]

Definitely a british Nieuport... perhaps Albert Ball's?
+1!

[greenalfonzo]

I would prefer at least one of the reprints to be French, and one from Italy, maybe Scaroni.

Hopefully no carryovers!

[Barkmann]

I think one Italian (Scaroni is a good option, as Kev suggested) one British (Ball), and one French (?) would be more than great.:)
Thanks


Nick

[john snelling]

Three new ones, Ball, an Italian, and a French would be nice.

[Mau Fox]

I would prefer at least one of the reprints to be French, and one from Italy, maybe Scaroni.

Hopefully no carryovers!

An Italian Ni. 17 would be a nice one indeed.

Actually, the pic posted by Kev doesn't refer to Silvio Scaroni but to top Ace Prince Fulco Ruffo di Calabria, father of the former (2013) Queen of Belgium. :)

140271

Mau

[greenalfonzo]

Thanks for the correction, Mau. We already have the Scaroni Hanriot anyway. Fulco Ruffo di Calabria, or any Italian would be a great choice.

[Barkmann]

Father of the Queen of Belgium?!!?!? Now thats new!;)
Thanks for the image by the way! Did Baracca flew Nieuports?
Thanks


Nick

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Father of the Queen of Belgium?!!?!? Now thats new!;)
Thanks for the image by the way! Did Baracca flew Nieuports?
Thanks


Nick

Yes Nick.
We learn something new every day on here. I had no idea either.
Rob.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

1 British (Ball or Mannock), 1 Italian (as long as it is pretty) and 1 French (again as long as it is pretty).

[Mau Fox]

That's why I like this place as well, I (we) learn something new, either on hour hobby or either about History. :)

Baracca, as well as other pilots of the 91st Squadriglia, did fly Nieuport 17 until these were replaced by Spad VII late Spring/early Summer 1917

Baracca's Ni.17
140282

Ruffo di Calabria standing near his Ni.17
140283


And now a few gossip :)

This is Princess Paola Ruffo di Calabria on his father's knees

140284

and here attending a royal dinner.

140285

She abdicated in 2013 in favor of her son.

Mau

[Blauer Baron]

Poll mistake, Damn, I thought it said all of them (should be replaced) but it says "none of them". Please ignore one vote on that list! Do a new French one, a Ball (Brit) and an Italian or Belgian one, the latter two have other planes from their nations they can team up with.

[Flying Helmut]

Three new ones, Ball, an Italian, and a French would be nice.

What that man said!

[Rabbit 3]

Ball

138976


Thieffry

138977


Dorme

138978

Seems like I`ve seen that last one somewere else recently?
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=3039&attachmentid=138839

[Teaticket]

Quote Originally Posted by john snelling View Post
Three new ones, Ball, an Italian, and a French would be nice.



What that man said!

What that man said about the other 'that man'.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Seems like I`ve seen that last one somewere else recently?
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=3039&attachmentid=138839

That's the trouble Robert.
I've got two out of those three already. As we waited, a lot of us did our own repaints, and thus have no need of several of the re-issues. They will be great for the new chaps to get though.
Rob.

[john snelling]

Quote Originally Posted by john snelling View Post
Three new ones, Ball, an Italian, and a French would be nice.




What that man said about the other 'that man'.


Finally, I get to be the other man.

I never understood marketing. Would not a reprint, other than a all white D.VII, reduce sales of that aircraft since a lot of collectors already have them. I know the exception of the rule "easy and desired repaints".

[Du doch nicht!]

I think unless we don't really have exact figures about the "demography" of the people who buy the planes. How many of which kind go to collectors who do repaints, how many to who don't? Which are bought by gamers?

It seems to me pretty plausible though that the white D.VII is one of the most sought simply because of the name of its pilot. But without hard facts there is simply a lot of speculation. I'm sure ares knows what they do.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Well I ordered three of them just for repaints.
Rob.

[milcoll73]

i got 2 just for repaint myself

[Zoe Brain]

This poll was started on 03-09-2011 21:45

Five years ago.

Looking at that, I have to say that Ares schedule of releases is hurting the game badly. There was intent to reprint ,5 years ago. There's still no schedule for next WGF release, nor what its content might be.

At minimum, in order to keep the game current and in print, we should have a 4-plane set every 3 months, new models alternating with reprints. As time goes by, the proportion of reprints will increase. Already the first set produced by Ares is virtually unobtainable. Prices for Immelman E-IIIs are very high.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I agree Zoe.
When you look at the New releases, they are not too badly spaced, but re releases are poor to put it mildly. They should by now be able to run a regular re release whenever the line is sold out financed out of the profits from its sales.
Rob.

[Nachtschwärmer]

Nice looking birds... but where are the much more needed Albatros D.III reprints (for our Italian and Palestine Fronts)? :hmm:

[zenlizard]

A more regular schedule of reprint offerings would definitely help the fan base of the game. Many of the original series are simply unobtainable for the newcomers as it is now.

[Oberst Hajj]

I agree that they are going to run into reprint time line issues if they stick to the one new series, one reprint schedule they have now. However, I don't think the frequency of releases is too bad...


Apr 2014: Series 2 reprint
May 2014: Gotha/Caproni reprint
Dec 2014: Series 8
Nov 2015: Giants
May 2016: New game mats
Aug 2016: Series 9

Those are were the projected dates, so might be a little off from actual release dates. But as you can see, for just WGF we have had six release in roughly 2.5 years... or on average a new release every 4.6 months. I'm not really sure either stores are most consumers could deal with a more aggressive release schedule. Us players would be broke (very much so for those that also play WGS) and stores simply don't have the display space to stock them all. Right now I have over 72 different minis stocked for WGF alone and that does not include the mats, posters, cards decks, etc.

I personally would like to see them release a reprint in May each year and a new series in December each year with any non-mini release between those two. Not sure how I would work WGS into that schedule though.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

There need to be two releases a year minimum for WGF and WGS - February, June, September, December for example - two series for each system of new and re-issued miniatures.

But more to the point Ares needs to encourage bricks and mortar stores to stock the lines. When I first started out the miniatures were everywhere. I remember picking up series 1-4 in bits and pieces. Every fortnight I would drop by and purchase a couple of aircraft. The cost of $40 was for two miniatures was spread over a longer period. The best bit was that you could bring your planes along and have a game, get a new player in and they would also buy an aircraft.

A steady supply readily accessible are the requirements. I don't know if that fits Ares business model but the game won't grow much without those conditions.

And in response to the poll I voted to replace the Nungesser Nieuport. The silver N.17 and N.23 are awesome for repaints!!

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Nice looking birds... but where are the much more needed Albatros D.III reprints (for our Italian and Palestine Fronts)? :hmm:

I agree Dennis, the Albatros D.III is currently the most urgently required reprint.

[Zoe Brain]

Se5a, Albatros D.III, N.17 are all urgent. And have you noticed that Camels are now getting rare too, even after a reprint?

[clipper1801]

Se5a, Albatros D.III, N.17 are all urgent. And have you noticed that Camels are now getting rare too, even after a reprint?

I remember it being asked before, but I missed the answer, do we know how many of each release were produced? It seems to me there is a shelf life factor that seems to be exponentially diminishing . . . Even the new releases seem to hard to acquire within a few months of becoming available. There is a quiet collecting factor and then a convention factor mixed in with a lot of solo players, each requires a different quantity of minis given the era of popularity . . .

[john snelling]

Se5a, Albatros D.III, N.17 are all urgent. And have you noticed that Camels are now getting rare too, even after a reprint?

I wonder if next reprint could possibly skip the two seaters and go with the Albatros D.III, N17, Se-5a and the Pfalz D.III. My friends want fighters!!! and so do I.

[Oberst Hajj]

There need to be two releases a year minimum for WGF and WGS - February, June, September, December for example - two series for each system of new and re-issued miniatures.

But more to the point Ares needs to encourage bricks and mortar stores to stock the lines. When I first started out the miniatures were everywhere. I remember picking up series 1-4 in bits and pieces. Every fortnight I would drop by and purchase a couple of aircraft. The cost of $40 was for two miniatures was spread over a longer period. The best bit was that you could bring your planes along and have a game, get a new player in and they would also buy an aircraft.

A steady supply readily accessible are the requirements. I don't know if that fits Ares business model but the game won't grow much without those conditions.

And in response to the poll I voted to replace the Nungesser Nieuport. The silver N.17 and N.23 are awesome for repaints!!

I don't think this game can handle a release schedule like that. That would be 48 "new" minis released a year, 12 roughly every 3 months. How many people on here could and would buy a complete 12 plane series if one came out every 3 months? Very few I'm sure. So then the stores and Ares would be sitting on large stocks of planes while the players bought them 2 and 3 at a time over a much longer period. Planes would sit on the shelves and stores would stop ordering in the new stuff because their shelves were full of the old stuff. In business, cash flow is extremely important. If I don't sell the old stock, I can't order new stock.

With all the minis that are currently out of stock, I've still got a 12' x 6' x 1.5' area housing just the minis in stock (WGF and WGS). That is a very large space for a brick and mortar store to dedicate to a lesser game. Go into your local store and see what game systems get that kind of floor/wall space... most likely only GW and maybe 1 or 2 others.

I personally think us diehard fans and collectors might have killed the FLGS with this game as much as the demise of Nexus. Since we own every mini in multiple copies, it was rare that a new player had to actually buy a mini to play at the local game store. Sure they might have picked up one or two that they really liked, but they never had to pick up the scenario type of minis as "we" already had them. This caused the casual player to not become as invested in the game. Add that to slower release in the beginning and Nexus going under, and players got scared off from the game.

I know my LFGS does not really care to carry an of the Ares games any longer since they do so much via KS. His customers buy it all via the KS and he gets to sell only the "scraps". His personal view is, why should he stock and support Ares if they are not going to support his store. I can't say I blame him for that view point.


I remember it being asked before, but I missed the answer, do we know how many of each release were produced? It seems to me there is a shelf life factor that seems to be exponentially diminishing . . . Even the new releases seem to hard to acquire within a few months of becoming available. There is a quiet collecting factor and then a convention factor mixed in with a lot of solo players, each requires a different quantity of minis given the era of popularity . . .

They have never been inclined to release those numbers to me privately, so I don't think it's been posted anywhere. But what newer releases are hard to now find? The Series 1 reprints are just now become hard to fine, 44 months after they hit the shelves.


I wonder if next reprint could possibly skip the two seaters and go with the Albatros D.III, N17, Se-5a and the Pfalz D.III. My friends want fighters!!! and so do I.

This would be very nice if they would not have made their molds as Seires :( But that ship sailed a long, long time ago.


I think the biggest problem Ares has with the Wings line is that it is a very popular niche game, but no where near a main stream game. That means a very small percentage of people always want more and new stuff, while the general gaming public could care less. They are too big for who they are and to small to become who they want to be (Wings wise).

[greenalfonzo]

How about a kickstarter for a rerelease series? You know, bonus paint schemes as different target goals, etc. Maybe get a new mold of 4 fighters that way? Ares has done KS before, but I think something like this might work...maybe?

[Oberst Hajj]

How about a kickstarter for a rerelease series? You know, bonus paint schemes as different target goals, etc. Maybe get a new mold of 4 fighters that way? Ares has done KS before, but I think something like this might work...maybe?

I suggested basically the same thing to them for some Squadron packs before, but don't know how much traction it got with them. I think they have become aware of how much stores do not like KS deals, so I think they may stay away from doing these types of things. As a fan and player, I like these types of ideas. But as a store, I really dislike them. lol

[Carl_Brisgamer]

I don't think this game can handle a release schedule like that. That would be 48 "new" minis released a year, 12 roughly every 3 months. How many people on here could and would buy a complete 12 plane series if one came out every 3 months? Very few I'm sure. So then the stores and Ares would be sitting on large stocks of planes while the players bought them 2 and 3 at a time over a much longer period. Planes would sit on the shelves and stores would stop ordering in the new stuff because their shelves were full of the old stuff. In business, cash flow is extremely important. If I don't sell the old stock, I can't order new stock.

I personally think us diehard fans and collectors might have killed the FLGS with this game as much as the demise of Nexus. Since we own every mini in multiple copies, it was rare that a new player had to actually buy a mini to play at the local game store. Sure they might have picked up one or two that they really liked, but they never had to pick up the scenario type of minis as "we" already had them. This caused the casual player to not become as invested in the game. Add that to slower release in the beginning and Nexus going under, and players got scared off from the game.

I think the biggest problem Ares has with the Wings line is that it is a very popular niche game, but no where near a main stream game. That means a very small percentage of people always want more and new stuff, while the general gaming public could care less. They are too big for who they are and to small to become who they want to be (Wings wise).

It appears we are stuck on the horns of a dilemma. The game is too big a fish for the small pond, but is unlikely to grow large enough to survive in the big ocean. We 'diehards' who try to grow the game by offering public play opportunities with our existing collections actually hurt the line because we remove the need for players to purchase new product. And the bricks and mortar shops won't stock because there has been too little product in the past and would not support an accelerated release in the future because there would be too much product.

I suppose we just need to get used to the fact that the current situation is about as good as it gets.

[Albert Ross]

We 'diehards' who try to grow the game by offering public play opportunities with our existing collections actually hurt the line because we remove the need for players to purchase new product

I don't see that at all: what I see is people attracted to the game asking where they can buy their own copy, only to be told "well this is out of print now, but if you look on ebay....." and watch their eyes glaze over. Whether intentionally or not, Wings has become a collector game in a niche market for enthusiasts willing to fork over serious $$$ for even the most mundane models.

The real reason for it's demise in the market is you cannot go out and by a starter set like the old Wings of War de luxe box that had everything in it you needed to play. Many people bought that and went no further, but others found a new interest and the fan base had plenty of scope for expansion and development - this site is proof of that. But without the starter sets, no new players are coming on stream; we are like the German and Japanese air forces in 1944, once our experienced pilots gone there will be no recruits passing out of flight school to replace them. Doesn't matter how many shiny new aircraft types are produced, you need pilots to fly them.

[Diamondback]

The other thing they could consider is split the line a little: if they're going to do KS releases, make some KS/Direct ONLY and at the same time make others Brick & Mortar ONLY. The game is to make the two sales channels not compete directly, so that we customers have a REASON to go B&M and in return they have a reason to stock for us.

[Albert Ross]

Ain't gonna happen: the B&M stores have already been burned twice and aren't about to throw any more good money after bad. My local one just dumped all his stuff and won't touch Wings again unless you order it - but why do that when you can do that yourself on line?

[milcoll73]

It appears we are stuck on the horns of a dilemma. The game is too big a fish for the small pond, but is unlikely to grow large enough to survive in the big ocean. We 'diehards' who try to grow the game by offering public play opportunities with our existing collections actually hurt the line because we remove the need for players to purchase new product. And the bricks and mortar shops won't stock because there has been too little product in the past and would not support an accelerated release in the future because there would be too much product.

I suppose we just need to get used to the fact that the current situation is about as good as it gets.

theres a lot of truth to that. the games needs more attention then ares can apparently devote to it to take it to the next level. and my buddy dave (who owns a game store) pointed out just that to me. if i have the minis for players to borrow, why do they need to bother purchasing. however if i dont promote the game and provide minis for prospective players to try, nobody will try it. its quite a conundrum. ive tried pushing the game less and we havent played a big game of wings at the store since aug. 2015. players have just seemed to loose interest. not enough new releases or games rules unavailable to get them on the hook. now when i try to scheduled a game and promote it people dont even bother showing up. the only minis theyve sold from series 9 are to me and my buddy rick. it really sucks having such a nice venue for gameplay only to watch interest wane slowly for lack of materials.

[milcoll73]

Ain't gonna happen: the B&M stores have already been burned twice and aren't about to throw any more good money after bad. My local one just dumped all his stuff and won't touch Wings again unless you order it - but why do that when you can do that yourself on line?

and not just flgs. one of the stores distributors seems to be getting out of wings or just carrying the bar minimum. where they used to have plenty of of availability to as far back as series 5, now they only have a few odd leftovers and a bit of wgs 6 and wgf 9 a good bit of which theyve sold out of already (meaning they must not have stocked that much to begin with).

[milcoll73]

Se5a, Albatros D.III, N.17 are all urgent. And have you noticed that Camels are now getting rare too, even after a reprint?

yes. ive noticed. and this after a couple of the distributors "clearenced" (ie price dropped a couple bucks) a couple of the remaining models just prior to series 9 release. seems to also becoming the case with fokker DVIIs.

[milcoll73]

I don't think this game can handle a release schedule like that. That would be 48 "new" minis released a year, 12 roughly every 3 months. How many people on here could and would buy a complete 12 plane series if one came out every 3 months? Very few I'm sure. So then the stores and Ares would be sitting on large stocks of planes while the players bought them 2 and 3 at a time over a much longer period. Planes would sit on the shelves and stores would stop ordering in the new stuff because their shelves were full of the old stuff. In business, cash flow is extremely important. If I don't sell the old stock, I can't order new stock.




and this is exactly why i and my buddy dave (gamestore owner) think they need to release fewer planes over a longer, more consistent scheduled. say a couple planes every other month, or 3 planes every 4 months. as well as having the base rules and some form of duel pack available AT ALL TIMES. sadly though. i dont think it would make much difference if they did switch at this point.



With all the minis that are currently out of stock, I've still got a 12' x 6' x 1.5' area housing just the minis in stock (WGF and WGS). That is a very large space for a brick and mortar store to dedicate to a lesser game. Go into your local store and see what game systems get that kind of floor/wall space... most likely only GW and maybe 1 or 2 others.


basically only magic the gathering and gw at mt buddys store. wings has a 5x4 peg facing but mostly just to humor me. were i not into the game i dont think hed even carry it.




I personally think us diehard fans and collectors might have killed the FLGS with this game as much as the demise of Nexus. Since we own every mini in multiple copies, it was rare that a new player had to actually buy a mini to play at the local game store. Sure they might have picked up one or two that they really liked, but they never had to pick up the scenario type of minis as "we" already had them. This caused the casual player to not become as invested in the game. Add that to slower release in the beginning and Nexus going under, and players got scared off from the game.




very true but were damned if we do, damned if we dont. if we dont provide minis for newbies to borrow to play the game at least initially they mostly wont even try it.





They have never been inclined to release those numbers to me privately, so I don't think it's been posted anywhere. But what newer releases are hard to now find? The Series 1 reprints are just now become hard to fine, 44 months after they hit the shelves.



one of our distributors is already sold out of the giants and most of wgs 6 and a good bit of wgf 9 already. i think its more because they didnt invest in them as much as earlier wings stuff. they used to have a pretty decent stock of stuff back to wgf 5 but have pretty much sold out of all but the latest stuff. makes me think theyre getting out of wings altogether, or at least scaling back drastically.





I think the biggest problem Ares has with the Wings line is that it is a very popular niche game, but no where near a main stream game. That means a very small percentage of people always want more and new stuff, while the general gaming public could care less. They are too big for who they are and to small to become who they want to be (Wings wise).

sadly very true.

[greenalfonzo]

Well, I can see stores not wanting to go all in again on singles, but I think they might find a new 4 plane starter box (all new schemes) or at least updated duel packs with all new schemes and a couple more aircraft types might be worth the limited shelf space they would take.

But still, why should they care if stores don't like KS stuff, when so many are no longer carrying anything...at least they could make the point they're just doing reprints, not new releases that way.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

theres a lot of truth to that. the games needs more attention then ares can apparently devote to it to take it to the next level. and my buddy dave (who owns a game store) pointed out just that to me. if i have the minis for players to borrow, why do they need to bother purchasing. however if i dont promote the game and provide minis for prospective players to try, nobody will try it. its quite a conundrum. ive tried pushing the game less and we havent played a big game of wings at the store since aug. 2015. players have just seemed to loose interest. not enough new releases or games rules unavailable to get them on the hook. now when i try to scheduled a game and promote it people dont even bother showing up. the only minis theyve sold from series 9 are to me and my buddy rick. it really sucks having such a nice venue for gameplay only to watch interest wane slowly for lack of materials.

Ares could always try some organised play packs - pay some cash, get a mini, play a mission and if you win get a reward (ace card set perhaps?). That idea was covered in another thread. Or you could try themed events where players are limited to aircraft in a certain time period. If most of your customers have late war stuff then run an early war event.

[Oberst Hajj]

I suppose we just need to get used to the fact that the current situation is about as good as it gets.

Which when you look at it, really isn't that bad. We've been getting new stuff to the tune of about every 3-4 months. That's way better than it was back when Nexus folded!


I don't see that at all: what I see is people attracted to the game asking where they can buy their own copy, only to be told "well this is out of print now, but if you look on ebay....." and watch their eyes glaze over. Whether intentionally or not, Wings has become a collector game in a niche market for enthusiasts willing to fork over serious $$$ for even the most mundane models.

The real reason for it's demise in the market is you cannot go out and by a starter set like the old Wings of War de luxe box that had everything in it you needed to play. Many people bought that and went no further, but others found a new interest and the fan base had plenty of scope for expansion and development - this site is proof of that. But without the starter sets, no new players are coming on stream; we are like the German and Japanese air forces in 1944, once our experienced pilots gone there will be no recruits passing out of flight school to replace them. Doesn't matter how many shiny new aircraft types are produced, you need pilots to fly them.

I can't say that's really the case though. I sold my first WGF RAP in Oct 2012 and my last one in May 2016. So those were available for 3.5+ years. I'm not convinced they were the best way to bring the game to the market, but those rules and a large number of minis to mate with them were out a very long time.

The Duel packs were available from Feb 2013 until about Oct 2015 and again starting in Jun of 2016. So those were around for nearly 3 years straight as well.

So from 2013 through 2015 there were three different options to get new players into the game.


The other thing they could consider is split the line a little: if they're going to do KS releases, make some KS/Direct ONLY and at the same time make others Brick & Mortar ONLY. The game is to make the two sales channels not compete directly, so that we customers have a REASON to go B&M and in return they have a reason to stock for us.

That could possibly work, stores are still going to not like the fact that they cant get/offer the full line of a game. And as we have seen, the KS projects would be the big cool things.


theres a lot of truth to that. the games needs more attention then ares can apparently devote to it to take it to the next level. and my buddy dave (who owns a game store) pointed out just that to me. if i have the minis for players to borrow, why do they need to bother purchasing. however if i dont promote the game and provide minis for prospective players to try, nobody will try it. its quite a conundrum. ive tried pushing the game less and we havent played a big game of wings at the store since aug. 2015. players have just seemed to loose interest. not enough new releases or games rules unavailable to get them on the hook. now when i try to scheduled a game and promote it people dont even bother showing up. the only minis theyve sold from series 9 are to me and my buddy rick. it really sucks having such a nice venue for gameplay only to watch interest wane slowly for lack of materials.

When I first started heavily promoting the game years and years ago, we had 14+ people playing it every Wed night... now I don't think anyone one has played at the store in 2 years :(


Well, I can see stores not wanting to go all in again on singles, but I think they might find a new 4 plane starter box (all new schemes) or at least updated duel packs with all new schemes and a couple more aircraft types might be worth the limited shelf space they would take.

But still, why should they care if stores don't like KS stuff, when so many are no longer carrying anything...at least they could make the point they're just doing reprints, not new releases that way.

Or they make the point to the industry as a whole that they don't support games/companies the market directly to their customers via KS. It's tough for a B&M store to make it these days, so they have to fight hard. As much as I dislike GW, I think their policy of set prices for both B&M and online stores is actually a good one for their games/company.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

When I first started heavily promoting the game years and years ago, we had 14+ people playing it every Wed night... now I don't think anyone one has played at the store in 2 years :(

Same down my part of the world Keith, the halcyon days of regular full tables of players has passed, and I am not sure no matter how hard we try we will get that back. Then it was a different from most other systems - an aerial skirmish game. Now we have a plethora of competition including Xwing which always seems to get plenty of support.


Or they make the point to the industry as a whole that they don't support games/companies the market directly to their customers via KS. It's tough for a B&M store to make it these days, so they have to fight hard. As much as I dislike GW, I think their policy of set prices for both B&M and online stores is actually a good one for their games/company.

This is what is killing 'Wings' in Australia, B&M shops can't compete with online sales. It may improve if Ares can secure a deal to ship straight from China to an Australian distributor, and that distributor agrees not to sell direct to the public for the same price it sells to shops.

[Albert Ross]

Harry was complaining that nobody ever played at his store which was one of the reasons for him dumping wings; now I freely admit I never played there, nor did anyone in my group. But then again, I also bought a car and drove it other places than the dealer's lot. That doesn't seem to have hurt the auto industry much. I also buy spares and accessories from places that are cheaper than the main dealership.:fixit:

Game stores seem to cater mostly for geeky student types who want somewhere to hang out: my wife observed that after emigrating from the UK that .'no matter where you go in the world those stores are always the same - even the same people!' And to an extent, I think she was right :waf:

I'm not a geek. In fact I've never even been to Geece :D

Poor choices by store owners will leave them with a lot of dead stock that just gathers dust after everyone in the area has bought a red triplane - but if Ares isn't making the stuff in the first place, the store owner can't invest in it. From a customer point of view after two or three visits where the stock hasn't changed, you stop going because you can buy paint and flock cheaper elsewhere and unless you're into Flames of War or Fantasy/role play, there's no reason to go back. :hmm:

[flash]

My FLGS owner, well he's not exactly local but he is friendly, decided to re-invest in WoG this year - he sells on-line and through the shop & they do play in the shop but not very often. He had a little trouble getting hold of stock to start with but once he got it up and running he told me can't get it out the door quick enough. He has had steady trading since July and almost cleared his first round of series 9 that he got in last week and has ordered some more. The trick, of course, is not to over order and end up with a pile of stock people no longer want. It may be called a store but he assures me that's not what they want to do !

[Boney10]

We could do with an Ares stall presence on the uk show circuit, there has not been a seller at the last two shows I attended, there is one that has a smattering but his prices are high but even he only has a smattering.
For myself there is no local store so its either online or at shows and as I just said, nothing at the shows. Last weekend at Colours I am pretty sure a number of starter sets would have been purchased if there had been a seller, although we can help one of the rules for attendance at shows is we dont sell over the table, private sales are ok but we cannot advertise selling as we get in free where as sellers pay for a stall.
Dont know if Ares have looked into this or even if feasable, but a store on the circuit along with our participation game would be a winner , at least in my opinion

['Warspite']

"Kibanov, you are the weakest link, goodbye".

['Warspite']

Game stores seem to cater mostly for geeky student types who want somewhere to hang out: my wife observed that after emigrating from the UK that .'no matter where you go in the world those stores are always the same - even the same people!' And to an extent, I think she was right :waf:



Oh indeedy! I have watched episodes of Big Bang Theory - both when they are playing Dungeons and Dragons and when they are hanging out in the comic book store - and I have instantly recognised the heights and depths of geekdom. I have also identified with some of their behaviour. Oh Gawd I'm a geek!

:eek:

Barry

['Warspite']

Poll mistake, Damn, I thought it said all of them (should be replaced) but it says "none of them". Please ignore one vote on that list! Do a new French one, a Ball (Brit) and an Italian or Belgian one, the latter two have other planes from their nations they can team up with.

A British Nieuport or a Belgian one would be brilliant, ideally Albert Ball's.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

We need an Italian Nieuport 17 to span the bridge of time between the Nieuport 11 and the Hanriot HD.1 and SPAD XIII.

An Italian SPAD VII would not go astray either, but that's another story.

[Hedeby]

A British Nieuport or a Belgian one would be brilliant, ideally Albert Ball's.

Just HAS to be Albert Ball's Nieuport

['Warspite']

Just HAS to be Albert Ball's Nieuport

We have a British SPAD. A British Nieuport 17 is long overdue.

Barry

[Bobby D]

A more regular schedule of reprint offerings would definitely help the fan base of the game. Many of the original series are simply unobtainable for the newcomers as it is now.

Have yet to see a hint of any Airco DH-2's available anywhere. With the lack of any early war Brit aircraft in the collection, the DH-2's (and Eindeckers) would be a welcome reprint for many people that are fairly new to the game (like me!)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Ah! Albert Ball. I could go to my grave a happy man.
Rob.

[flash]

Have yet to see a hint of any Airco DH-2's available anywhere. With the lack of any early war Brit aircraft in the collection, the DH-2's (and Eindeckers) would be a welcome reprint for many people that are fairly new to the game (like me!)

Any reprint of any series would be welcome to anybody out there Bobby !
As it is, series 3 is next (N.17, Alb D.III, RE8 & Ufag C.I) series 4 (SE5a, Pfalz D.III, BR14 & Rumpler C.IV) after that, then series 5 - the early war stuff.
So, if you want early stuff keep your eyes on the usual places and hope someone wants to sell some :money:

I'd like to see a British N.17 too and of the same quality as the original models but not convinced we'll get either yet.