relative drinking

[rockyr]

I just read how Richthofen's Jasta 11 drank relatively little alcohol compared to the RFC so they could respond to incoming enemy flights.

That explains much....

mean and sober.

(or is that mean because sober)

Thus today's tidbit.

[IvanTT]

I find that hard to believe. Richtofen himself perhaps , especially after his head injury as he seems to become a much different person in his diary after that, but the rest probably not . Most pilots, hell all combat troops for that matter, used booze to cope with the extreem stress of combat life. My uncle, a ww2 flyer, for one I know was half in the bag most of the time and my father will tell you the same thing when he was in the navy during ww2.

[rockyr]

I thought almost the pilots were heavy boozers, but Hans George von der Osten reported that drinking was a rarity at J-11 noting Richthofen's serving on champagne celebrating vdOsten's first and the squadron's 200th score.

Meanwhile, neighboring J4 routinely had "very wet evenings."

Since MvR's men often sat out on the airstrip next to the planes, waiting for the enemy to fly over, then jumped into their aircraft to take off and attack, drinking while waiting would have had pernicious effect. On the other hand, RFC safely back behind their lines and with two sorties a day would have more chance to imbibe.

R

[MayorJim]

Hmmm...I thought at first that this thread was about my relatives and drinking ;) ...they did run taverns from the early 1900's...my bad...so, back on topic, that seems interesting...ummm...I guess they didn't smoke much either? I mean, they were pretty much sitting on top of the fuel tanks!!

[rockyr]

Mick Mancock liked his SE5a's cockpit because it was warm and relatively free of drafts, to the point he could light his pipe on his way home! Once on the ground, the pilots were chimneys. That was made easier by the military issuing cigarettes.

[MayorJim]

Mick Mancock liked his SE5a's cockpit because it was warm and relatively free of drafts, to the point he could light his pipe on his way home! Once on the ground, the pilots were chimneys. That was made easier by the military issuing cigarettes.

Rocky...that's very interesting...I would have thought a "victory" cigar would have been more in order?

[The Cowman]

Mick Mancock liked his SE5a's cockpit because it was warm and relatively free of drafts, to the point he could light his pipe on his way home! Once on the ground, the pilots were chimneys. That was made easier by the military issuing cigarettes.

Neat factoid! I would have thought it would have been just the opposite... I could have sworn that I remember reading just recently somewhere that pilots complained about the cockpit of the SE.5A at first because they sat too high in it... maybe I am thinking of something else... or perhaps they fixed the problem later?

[rockyr]

One complaint about SE5 cockpits was the space was too tight. I have seen photos with the fuselage sides cut away to make shoulder room.

[The Cowman]

OK I found it ... wanted to make sure I was not crazy... but its reliability as a fact could be in question, since it was the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Aircraft_Factory_S.E.5)that I saw it in:



Operational history

The S.E.5 entered service with No. 56 Squadron RFC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._56_Squadron_RFC) in March 1917, although the squadron did not deploy to the Western Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Front_(World_War_I)) until the following month, among other reasons so that the very large and unpopular "greenhouse" windscreens could be replaced with small rectangular screens of conventional design. Pilots also disliked the original high seating position, designed to improve vision over the upper wing, preferring to sit lower (and more comfortably) in the cockpit. The squadron flew its first patrol with the S.E.5 on 22 April.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Aircraft_Factory_S.E.5#cite_note-Bruce_53_p87-2) While pilots, some of whom were initially disappointed with the S.E.5, quickly came to appreciate its strength and fine flying qualities, it was universally held to be under-powered and the more powerful S.E.5a began to replace the S.E.5 in June.


I guess it all comes down to which of the listed references this was from and whether that reference was a reliable source. It does seem that this was in reference to the SE.5 and not the SE.5a, but it hard to be sure...

... and as for all you History Buffs out there... you see what you have gone and done?!?! You've done got The Cowman interested in the actual facts!!! Next thing you know, I will be painting minis in the colors they are supposed to be... Thats like fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
...but don't hold your breath!! ;)

[Oberst Hajj]

This is interesting. I'm afraid to admit I do not know much about the SE5 or 5a.

[rockyr]

The SE5 had a higher seat that was heavy, intended to improve view, and ARMORED. Ball hated it so much they put in new seating in the SE5a.

[jbmacek]

Hmmm...I thought at first that this thread was about my relatives and drinking ;)
All of my relatives who saw action in WWII or Korea were heavy drinkers.

[john snelling]

Years ago (around 15) Adm. Mullen (Mr PC) issued an order that all drunk sailors coming back aboard the ship were to be written up during our upcoming Med deployment. The Chief's got together and was pondering how to enforce this new order. After some debate one nuclear Chief says what is the definition of being drunk. Whitout specifics or any kind of equipment to measure drunkeness we decided you were drunk if one was physically sick on the quarterdeck, one started a fight on or near the quarterdeck, or if one had to be carried on the ship due to alcohol. I read the Quarterdeck orders written in WW2 it read something like this: if you see a shipmate drunk help him come back to the ship where he can be taken care of. Now sailors get a hotel room to sleep it off or wonder around the port to get sober enough before coming back. Just one of many things Mullen wanted to do. Another one was nothing good happens after midnight. I meet my wife of 26 years after midnight and we have never had an arguement. What the heck does he know? He is probaly one of the reasons why we cannot defend ships against a bunch third world pirates.

[MayorJim]

OK I found it ... wanted to make sure I was not crazy... but its reliability as a fact could be in question, since it was the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Aircraft_Factory_S.E.5)that I saw it in:



I guess it all comes down to which of the listed references this was from and whether that reference was a reliable source. It does seem that this was in reference to the SE.5 and not the SE.5a, but it hard to be sure...

... and as for all you History Buffs out there... you see what you have gone and done?!?! You've done got The Cowman interested in the actual facts!!! Next thing you know, I will be painting minis in the colors they are supposed to be... Thats like fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
...but don't hold your breath!! ;)

Ummm...don't confuse me with facts! Actually, this was/is a pretty interesting thread!