Squadron Logo. Update.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

As part of the original discussion on this has not transferred properly, will the chaps who put forward ideas on this please re submit their final logos here by the end of next week. we can then vote by the end of this month on the idea that we want to adopt.
Rob.

[David Manley]

Mine were based on RAF squadron crests......

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7615&d=1294469813

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7616&d=1294469813

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks Dave. That currently puts you in the lead then.
Rob.

[Stormkahn]

Spot on Mr Manely can we have this in the middle of the Notts one perhaps?

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8787&d=1296768795

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I was thinking more along the lines of this Dave.

Rob.

8789

[Stormkahn]

Very funny, that'll strike fear into the old bosch!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Well he sure scared the Sherrif and King John.
Rob.

[Burt]

Robins are aggresive little buggers, you should see the one in my garden, anything smaller than it, it chases away.

[Stormkahn]

maybe we should paint the underside of the fuselage red too?

[Boney10]

Here are mine

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7612&d=1294434515

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7643&d=1294522411

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7645&d=1294522417

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7644&d=1294522414

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks Chris. That ensures that we will have a vote.
Rob.

[Strangely Brown]

Working on the principle that we are all United in this Kingdom, and that logos should follow the KISS strategy, I put forward these (as examples) for the mess to comment on:

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8978&d=1297212413

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8979&d=1297212415

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8977&d=1297212411

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8980&d=1297214132

This design will allow for individuallity whilst still following a common ethos: All British Flights under one sky...

If any of the other flights want to pass on their symbol I will produce mock-ups for you.

[David Manley]

Very nice indeed, could you do one with a golden dragon for the Avon flight?

[The Cowman]

Nice choices Gentlemen!

[Stormkahn]

Excellent, just some text for the flight and they'd be damn near perfect!

Nice one Simon,

cheers,

[Oberst Hajj]

Good stuff guys. I personally am liking the ones Dave first posted up.

[Strangely Brown]

Very nice indeed, could you do one with a golden dragon for the Avon flight?

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8999&d=1297273463

A closer approximation of the Avon Dragon I think....

[flash]

What we need to remember gentleman is that these are Squadron logo, not flight logo & have to represent their whole area rather than part of it. I agree with Simons principle & that we should represent that we are under one flag by use of the union flag or part of it. We also need to show we are part of the drome and where each squadron is located. Hence my design for the South of England Squadron - composes the union flag, the England flag in our case, helpfully to the 'south' of the Union flag part, and printing to show who & where we are from. I'm sure other nations & parts of the country could use the same principle with parts of their flag if they chose to but I lack the skills to create them.

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6607&d=1290534654

Here's another version in a different font / colour (though it is lacking a flight name)

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6450&d=1289938613

[David Manley]

"A closer approximation of the Avon Dragon I think...."

Very nice indeed :)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

What a wealth of ideas we have here chaps. It is going to be very hard for us to decide. Thanks for all the hard work. Are there any more to come before we close the entry lists?
Rob.

[tonyc206]

I have an idea but need til Monday to have time

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I have an idea but need til Monday to have time

No problem Tony. It looks now as if I won't even be home until Sunday, and then I'll have to catch up on a week of E-mails.
Rob.

[pivole]

There's not a hint of a question about what staffordshire should have. and west mids should have an anchor

[daddio]

Ow abowt a flat cap for the Lancashire squadron?;)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I have had some queries about if we can legally use Daves badges because they are officially still in use. Anyone like to comment. I will close the entries for this comp on 28th Feb at Midnight.
Rob.

[Strangely Brown]

I have had some queries about if we can legally use Daves badges because they are officially still in use.

I would say as long as care is taken to ensure we don't copy any of the official sqn designs and any wording is clearly WoW related (let's use the font) then I don't think we should encounter too many problems.

[flash]

Would the use of the royal crown be an issue ? (hate to upset the Huns who own it !) This was mentioned before in relation to heraldry etc on the previous thread.
Maybe someone with the skills could create something on the RAF roundel as an option to the squadron badges as that seems in common usage - would also resolve the common 'British' connection.

[Strangely Brown]

I think the use of the roundel could throw up more issues than the crest as it is also used as a widely recognised logo, whereas the crest is more audience specific, as some subject matter expertise is required to recognise it's use. The main problem would be through assumed affiliation. How far outside of the WoW community is this image going to be used? If it's only our own circle, I don't think corporate lawyers or HMG are going to be to fussed.

[David Manley]

IIRC the MOD sued Next over the use of Roundels on bed linen (!). Not sure what the outcome of that was though. If its a risk, don't use the crests. We might have to think a bit about the ones based on the RAF flag as well :(

Such a shame that the accountants and lawyers seem to rule the roost in MOD these days :(

[Stormkahn]

What about all the Mods driving around on their scooters (over grown hair dryers if you ask me, they want to get a proper bike but that's for another day :) )? Quadraphenia? I don't recall lawsuites for those roundels.

I'm on Simon's side here, make it clear is Wings of War and roll with it.

cheers,

dave.

[Strangely Brown]

We might have to think a bit about the ones based on the RAF flag as well.

The designs based on the ensign only become a problem if you make them up into flags/ensigns, as within the UK all flags have to be authorised through the Royal Navy. Indeed, the RAF got in the poo for using their ensign (pale blue background) on their rescue launches!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

We may be able to alter them enough to escape any censure, or even ask the powers that be what is acceptable to them. Our Reg in the Sealed Knot got Lord Robartes permission to use his crest as long as we only used it for drums and colours. On our mail shots, it has to go out without the supporting beasts.
Rob.

[Strangely Brown]

Gentlemen,*

I have taken the liberty of contacting the Crown Copyright Administrator at the MoD and asked them to look over the three designs which may or may not be of interest to them, namely the crest, the eagle and the ensign.

I have explained the purpose to which they may be applied:
Online promotion
Posters at games shows/clubs
(possbily) T-shirts

Hopefully I should hear back from them in the next couple of days and then we can test and adjust the designs as necessary.


*I keep saying that, but if there are any aviatrix out there, my apologies,

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks for that Simon. You have saved your old Winco yet another job.:)
Rob.

[Strangely Brown]

And the verdict is.....

"Dear Simon

Thank you for your e-mail. I regret to have to advise that the MOD does not permit elements of its crests or emblems to be modified or incorporated into new or different logos belonging to external parties. This is because such use could compromise or dilute our ability to protect and defend these emblems from inappropriate use. The Crown in particular is protected by statute.

Regards

Nicola Hunt
Crown Copyright Administrator
Defence Intellectual Property Rights"


As Captain Darling said...... "Bugger."

Right, out with crayons then!

[Stormkahn]

Smegma!

Replace the crown with a flying helmet or snoopy :)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

As Captain Darling said...... "Bugger."

Ditto,ditto,ditto.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Smegma!

Replace the crown with a flying helmet or snoopy :)

Sorry Dave, but I think you will find Snoopy is also copyright. :rolleyes: I feel like a large drink. To the bar.:)
Rob.

[Stormkahn]

???

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Looks as if owing to copyright rules the only logo we can use is either Flash's or Bony's. Please submit your votes for these by PM. to me by 21st March.
Rob.

[Boney10]

Erm Wingo talking of spanners & works, ahem the eagle in my option is a copy of the RAF eagle, is that not also covered by the copyright ?, or (hushed voice) didnt they notice that ? Google RAf eagle and youll see what I mean :(

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Yes. We may need to change the style of the Eagle a bit, but in principle I think it will be O.K.
Rob.

[flash]

Don't forget that the option I have created is purely an all inclusive logo for the South of England Squadron but could be used as a suggested style for the other squadrons - check my album (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=326) for a couple of simple examples.
Moreover, I am trying to suggest that if there has to be a 'national standard' rather than each Squadron doing their own thing then we should agree on the parameters to be used ie the words displayed, maybe the font, and that the union flag or part thereof should be included eg I can see a Welsh flag merged with a union flag with due respect given to the red diagonals of the Irish flag (I just can't create it yet !).

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Getting near the 21st. Any more offerings. I have had one vote so far.
Rob.

[Boney10]

Wingco can I clarify something. Is this logo going to be used as a Sig block on the forum or are we looking to get, sqn t-shirts or lapel badges done ?
Also is the voting 1 man 1 vote or an order of preference ?
C

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Wingco can I clarify something. Is this logo going to be used as a Sig block on the forum or are we looking to get, sqn t-shirts or lapel badges done ?
Also is the voting 1 man 1 vote or an order of preference ?
C

One man one vote Chris. I was initially hoping for a badge to identify you at events, but also as a sig. Now we are on the new site, I'm not sure if the Col will go along with us cluttering up the posts after the problem we had last month?
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

ONLY ONE WEEK TO GO . Lets have your votes chaps. Make a fight of it.
Rob.

[Burt]

Havn't been following this!
Where are the badges to choose from?
Don

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Havn't been following this!
Where are the badges to choose from?
Don

Right near the foot of this thread Don.
Rob.

[Archidamus]

Rob,

I vote for the second one down in Chris' post

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks Brian. The secret vote continues! I have recorded your vote.
Rob.

[Archidamus]

Of course - I hope this piece of classic mis-direction has thrown the enemy in to confusion whilst my true vote goes un-noticed :) :) :)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Nice try Brian.:rolleyes:
Rob.

[Archidamus]

Well, I mentioned the vote, but I think I got away with it :) :) :)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Well, I mentioned the vote, but I think I got away with it :) :) :)

I told you not to mention the vote Basil.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

However I wish some more people would mention the vote.




ONLY 1 VOTING DAY LEFT CHAPS.

Wingco.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

top

[Stormkahn]

top

top bananna?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

top bananna?

Top Hole.Old bean.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

TODAY IS THE DAY GET YOUR VOTE IN



KYTE.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

After a series of nail biting recounts, the Returning Officer ie. FO Kyte. can announce that the winner is:- Long meaningless pause accompanied by drum roll.

Flash.


Congratulations to Flash, and my thanks for all the hard work put in by the runners up.

Now we need to decide exactly how we want the info to be displayed on the background.
Only one preference was voiced and that was for the second one down. I will be open to suggestions on this thread please.
Rob.

[Stormkahn]

That's a good job well done, nice one chaps.

Thought this was for T-shirts, flyers and what not?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

That's a good job well done, nice one chaps.

Thought this was for T-shirts, flyers and what not?

Exactly correct as usual Dave. What manner of wording do you want on the flag and how do you want it formatted Chaps. Sorry if my origional posting was not clear.
Rob.

[Stormkahn]

Perhaps this is a little late in the day but any chance we could include the flight logos in the bottom rh corner too?

I prefer then 1st one for the font/colour combo too. :)

cheers,

Dave.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Cant see why it should not go on somewhere. Maybe Flash could get together with Gunners and run us up a mock up or two showing this.
Rob.

[flash]

Thanks for voting chaps !

I will send Gunners the blank pic if you like - he has the skills that I don't to play about with it all - I don't have the font but I think we should try the WoW style (duality font?) to see what the wording looks like. I was happy with my South of England effort but there are some tweaks I'd like and doubtless between us we can craft logos for the other squadrons along similar lines if they are happy with that. I did link some mock examples in my album on here somewhere but Gunners will be able to do better I'm sure.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks for voting chaps !

I will send Gunners the blank pic if you like - he has the skills that I don't to play about with it all - I don't have the font but I think we should try the WoW style (duality font?) to see what the wording looks like. I was happy with my South of England effort but there are some tweaks I'd like and doubtless between us we can craft logos for the other squadrons along similar lines if they are happy with that. I did link some mock examples in my album on here somewhere but Gunners will be able to do better I'm sure.
I concur. I even agree. If Gunners is up for the work. I will leave it to you two to sort it out. It is your design after all, and too many cooks spoil the broth. Just keep me informed .
Rob.

[flash]

My lad has returned home - sorted my computer ills & given me duality font - ie the WoW font - I have therefore created a couple of versions with that font for the South of England Squadron in my album (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=326) namely v0.07 & 0.08. I'm leaning toward the latter for layout.

[Boney10]

Hi Dave no pic

[Flying Officer Kyte]

My lad has returned home - sorted my computer ills & given me duality font - ie the WoW font - I have therefore created a couple of versions with that font for the South of England Squadron in my album (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=326) namely v0.07 & 0.08. I'm leaning toward the latter for layout.

I got the picture OK. Dave. Superb.
I will now leave yourself and the other Squadron Leaders to decide what you want to put on for each Flight. Then we can get the flight leaders input. If the county does not have enough members to have a Flight Leader they will have to accept what they are given.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

As yet no one has come back to me with any requests about the preferred formatt, so I assume no decision has been reached thus far.
Rob.

[Boney10]

Just looked in Sqn CO album and seen the badges.
They really do look good.
So what next? Enamelled badges or T-shirts ?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Just looked in Sqn CO album and seen the badges.
They really do look good.
So what next? Enamelled badges or T-shirts ?

I like the enamelled badge idea but have no idea what the price would be or the minimum quantities they would do.
I also need input from the Squadron leaders about slogans for the flights and which of the choices will be the definative style.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

:surrender:I guess this is a dead letter then.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Chris has come to our rescue with a quote from a firm that can do us enamelled badges. Once we have firmed up the details I will post them here and see if we get enough interest to do a run.
Rob.

[Boney10]

Gents,
I have been looking into getting the UK wing some sort of badge based upon Sqn Leader Flash's design as per the earlier posts.
The upshot is we can get pin lapel badges as shown below.

TO SUPPLYING: -

Lapel Pins, 25mm diameter, enamelled up to four colours, polished front highlights, gilt or nickel plate, clutch pin fitting, i4c Publicity mark on reverse, supplied individually bagged @: -

Quality 50 100 200 300 500 1000 2500 5000 10,000
Soft Enamel £2.82 £1.81 £1.02 £0.81 £0.63 £0.43 £0.32 £0.27 £0.21
Soft Enamel with Epoxy £2.85 £1.83 £1.04 £0.83 £0.65 £0.45 £0.33 £0.28 £0.22
Free Tooling No Setting Up Charges

Prices shown are per badge and are guide prices only, subject to confirmation on sight of sample/design. All prices are subject to postage, packaging and insurance at cost, plus VAT at current rates.

So we would need a minimum of 50 badges order, it also looks like we would have to have a UK wide badge instead of the original idea of Squadron badges.
The sample I sent to the firm was this

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15358&d=1308823749

I shall ask if we can change the wording to the bottom right to individual areas but not sure if they will.
Cost I estimate using the figures above would be including P&P, VAT plus p&P out to menbers in the region of £4 per badge.
This is just one company and I shall make other enquiries, but the question is who would commit to purchasing one, or is nobody interested ?
Or would a t-shirt embroidery one be way to go ?
Please let me know one way or another, Not interested, Pin badge, T-shirt
Its up to you chaps now, as shown we would need a minimum order of 50

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks for all your effort on this Chris. It's up to yopu now chaps. Lets see if we can get up enough interest to prevent this from becoming a stillborn project. It would be a great pity if that happened after all this work from a few people.

Rob.

[Khargor]

I'm late on this one (had a LOT going on recently and ended up just lurking as I had little to post about) but think they're great! I'd be up 3x badges at least (myself, Aled, Scotty) and I'll ask around the others when I get down to Cardiff again and hopefully have a larger number :)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

THAT IS GOOD! I am up for three myself. That is including Dave and Christophe.
Rob.

[David Manley]

An excellent idea, but not one for me I'm afraid. I'm not a badge kind of person, sorry.

[Stormkahn]

Looks like my batman already has things under control, carry on Kytey:salute:

[Khargor]

Did we get enough to make an order viable?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Did we get enough to make an order viable?

Only six thus far I'm afraid Shaun. It is obviously not as popular as the Buckeyes one. We will have to wait a bit longer I'm afraid and see if there is any more response.
Rob.

[Boney10]

So far not many orders as Wing co has said.
If an enamelled badge is not to taste then shall I see about t-shirts maybe ?

[flash]

Apologies - this has been under my tail in the blind spot for quite a time - The badge Chris has sent off is South of England specific & was never intended as a national badge, as I stated previously on a number of occasions. I think for that we'd simply need a Union flag with the aerodrome spiel across it. When I find assistance I will attempt to create region specific designs similar to those shown in my album. I have in mind one for the Welsh/N.Irish combining their flag with the union flag but lack the skills to create it.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Morning Dave.
I think Chris only sent that one off to get an idea of the cost. If we don't get a better response than we have, even a generic British badge is too expensive never mind regional ones.
I would not trouble yourself with the work unless you really want to do it, until we see if there is any more take up.
Thanks for all your effort.
Rob.

[Boney10]

Hi Dave, As wingco has said, the design I sent off was for a quote to viability, unfortunately looking at the quote to get a cheapish badge we are looking at a minimum of 50 badges per design, so we may have to look at a national badge rather than a squadron/flight badge, just a question of economics it looks like unfortunately.
Again if we cant get 50 takers we going nowhere anyway :(

[flash]

Well I think it would be nice to get the Squadron Badges finished eventually - been more than a little distracted with family matters recently but will see what I can do.

[The Cowman]

If you will let me, I will order a couple of your badges just to have them... I may eventually put together a jean jacket with the KOTA Banner on the back and various badges of different squadrons, flights, here and there..