View Full Version : BRS Plastic Kits?
Shadowcat
06-29-2018, 15:39
Welp...just got a E-mail from Warlord for pre orders on Blood Red Skies bombers. They had a Ju88 A, Ju 52, Blenheim Mk IV, Tupolev ANT-40 (SB-2), And Liszunov Li-2. Kits appear to be plastic assemble yourself with 3 planes per box in 1/200 scale. Time to start working up cards, bases, and decals guys.
clipper1801
06-29-2018, 16:30
I would ask about the plastic they will be molding in, hard styrene at the least. I was very disappointed with all the others they produced. Then there is the scale variance . . . don't get me started . . . my entire BRS set is for sale on the For Sale/Trade page on Clipper's List . . .
Shadowcat
06-29-2018, 16:45
Noticed that, you jumped right in and did an outstanding job of painting them. Suspect Warlords had one of their plastic companies work these up. Got to be better then the soft stuff...one hopes anyway.
clipper1801
06-29-2018, 16:59
Let the modeler beware . . . you put hours and $ into these minis and they go warp and become baddies . . . will not get bit again . . . maybe they should get some outside QC feed back before they sell . . .
clipper1801
06-29-2018, 17:51
So I just went to their website and saw the "new" models - they are relabeled Zvezda 1/200" scale kits with the same art, just new labels. We have them now for less than $10 each. Good kits and we have many cards already made . . . they must have made a deal with Zvezda.
OldGuy59
06-29-2018, 17:52
Welp...just got a E-mail from Warlord for pre orders on Blood Red Skies bombers. They had a Ju88 A, Ju 52, Blenheim Mk IV, Tupolev ANT-40 (SB-2), And Liszunov Li-2. Kits appear to be plastic assemble yourself with 3 planes per box in 1/200 scale. Time to start working up cards, bases, and decals guys.
Might want to look in the following for anything that might appeal:
Ju.88s: OldGuy59's WWII Axis Bombers & Heavy Fighters Album (https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=3093)
Ju.52s: OldGuy59's WWII German Transports Album (https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=3452)
Blenheim Mk IV: OldGuy59's WWII British Bombers Album (https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=3947)
Liszunov Li-2: OldGuy59's WWII Allied Transport Planes Album (https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=3035)
And I haven't put together an album for the cards in this thread: Zvezda 1/200 Soviet Tupolev SB-2 bombers (https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?20743-Zvezda-1-200-Soviet-Tupolev-SB-2-bombers&p=322435&viewfull=1#post322435)
Shadowcat
06-29-2018, 21:36
Those will work, And if they are relabeled kits, gotta be better then the soft stuff was.
Naharaht
06-30-2018, 01:04
It is a pity that Ares did not do a deal with Zvezda for those kits.
Flying Officer Kyte
06-30-2018, 03:50
Any idea where we can pick them up over here other than Hannants?
Rob.
clipper1801
06-30-2018, 06:20
I have bought them from our local hobby shop, eBay, Plastic Scale Models, 1001 model kits, etc. Most warehouse model sites carry them along with Zvezda model figures and war models. As I mentioned they typically cost $4-8 USD. I have modified the Ju88 several times . . .Just did a Google search, over 50 online stores carry them including several in the U.K.
OldGuy59
06-30-2018, 08:09
It is a pity that Ares did not do a deal with Zvezda for those kits.
Not at all, IMHO. It goes completely against the 'ready-out-of-the-box' principle Wings of Glory is supposed to be following. I'm already boycotting planes that need touch-up painting and decalling.
Not at all, IMHO. It goes completely against the 'ready-out-of-the-box' principle Wings of Glory is supposed to be following. I'm already boycotting planes that need touch-up painting and decalling.
You've hit on my pet peeve with this game. Don't get me wrong - I like this game a LOT. But one of the things that attracted me was being not having to paint miniatures. I start to get into the game, only to find out I'm going to be painting miniatures due to lack of support for the game.
I can't really comment on WWI, having only played it a couple of times at Origins, but to me it at least appears to be much better supported than WWII. If it's true that the next release of new planes for WWII has been pushed back to 2019 how long would that be between releases of new planes? I know the Battle of Britain starter was released in 2017, but if I'm not mistaken the planes in that kit had already been released previously. My belief is we're talking at least two years between releases of new material. That sort of marketing strategy could be used as an example in a textbook of "How to Ensure that a Concept Dies."
Carl_Brisgamer
06-30-2018, 09:29
You've hit on my pet peeve with this game. Don't get me wrong - I like this game a LOT. But one of the things that attracted me was being not having to paint miniatures. I start to get into the game, only to find out I'm going to be painting miniatures due to lack of support for the game.
I agree Bob the release schedule for WW2 is way too slow. But we will allegedly have the new WW2 bombers available in Q4 - two different versions each of the Blenheim I, Blenheim IV, Dornier Do 17 and Junkers Ju 88. Pre-painted and ready to for play.
Regarding Warlords' use of Zvezda kits, well it just goes to show BRS was never going to be a game you can play 'straight out of the box'.
David Manley
06-30-2018, 10:56
I agree Bob the release schedule for WW2 is way too slow. But we will allegedly have the new WW2 bombers available in Q4 - two different versions each of the Blenheim I, Blenheim IV, Dornier Do 17 and Junkers Ju 88. Pre-painted and ready to for play.
Regarding Warlords' use of Zvezda kits, well it just goes to show BRS was never going to be a game you can play 'straight out of the box'.
Warlord doesn't do 'straight out of the box' so was anyone really surprised?
Shadowcat
06-30-2018, 10:56
Truth be told WoG is not playable out of the box for the most part either. The only Out of the box kits are either the 2 plane WWI sets or the BoB set. Most boxes are just rules, damage decks, and chits. No planes, maneuver decks, or plane cards. Considering the lack of stock at local shops and limited print runs of yearly releases the game is sort of in slow motion.
David Manley
06-30-2018, 10:58
Any idea where we can pick them up over here other than Hannants?
Rob.
I get mine from Antics, but there are often traders carrying them at many UK shows
Flying Helmut
06-30-2018, 12:41
Any idea where we can pick them up over here other than Hannants?
Rob.
"Entoyment"
Picked up a Ju52 today!
milcoll73
06-30-2018, 14:11
You've hit on my pet peeve with this game. Don't get me wrong - I like this game a LOT. But one of the things that attracted me was being not having to paint miniatures. I start to get into the game, only to find out I'm going to be painting miniatures due to lack of support for the game.
I can't really comment on WWI, having only played it a couple of times at Origins, but to me it at least appears to be much better supported than WWII. If it's true that the next release of new planes for WWII has been pushed back to 2019 how long would that be between releases of new planes? I know the Battle of Britain starter was released in 2017, but if I'm not mistaken the planes in that kit had already been released previously. My belief is we're talking at least two years between releases of new material. That sort of marketing strategy could be used as an example in a textbook of "How to Ensure that a Concept Dies."
ww1 definitely used to be better supported as ww2 seemed to be the red headed stepchild of the line. now neither seem particularly well supported. its been almost 2 years since any NEW (ie not repaints) aircraft have been released for ww1.
my friends and i have discussed ares marketing strategy numerous times. suffice it to say, i simply dont get it. i will say again its quite frustrating to sit by and watch other potential players move on to other games for lack of product.
clipper1801
06-30-2018, 15:04
ww1 definitely used to be better supported as ww2 seemed to be the red headed stepchild of the line. now neither seem particularly well supported. its been almost 2 years since any NEW (ie not repaints) aircraft have been released for ww1.
my friends and i have discussed ares marketing strategy numerous times. suffice it to say, i simply dont get it. i will say again its quite frustrating to sit by and watch other potential players move on to other games for lack of product.
My concern as well, but we are a loyal band we wings crew, we will persevere to endure - What ever that means. It's still the best game out there, a sleeping giant . . . Well, at least sleeping. : )
Not enough WoG users to justify frequent new releases I fear. :hmm:
Carl_Brisgamer
06-30-2018, 16:59
Not enough WoG users to justify frequent new releases I fear. :hmm:
That may be a self-fulfilling prophesy - perhaps it is the lack of product that inhibits growth of the player base rather than a lack of demand restricting expansion.
clipper1801
06-30-2018, 18:48
What we need is a person who has and wants to invest some big money into a game that promotes history, comradery and aviation to a broad spectrum of people of all ages across the world. I don't know, someone like Peter Jackson? Or that Flying Officer Kyte person . . .
ww1 definitely used to be better supported as ww2 seemed to be the red headed stepchild of the line. now neither seem particularly well supported. its been almost 2 years since any NEW (ie not repaints) aircraft have been released for ww1.
my friends and i have discussed ares marketing strategy numerous times. suffice it to say, i simply dont get it. i will say again its quite frustrating to sit by and watch other potential players move on to other games for lack of product.
A lot of discussion about their marketing can be found here: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?27948-Availability-of-WW2-Miniatures
I think there is tremendous disconnect between what Ares believes to be true and what many, many players are seeing in the real world. An acquaintance of mine who until a few months ago owned a game store said one thing that was a constant in the business for years - if a game was produced by a company based in Europe it was guaranteed that he would not be able to get adequate stock. I've heard the same story many times over. I truly believe that Ares has greatly underestimated the demand of Wings of Glory in the US.
Shadowcat
06-30-2018, 20:16
Bob, that sort of makes sense. European producers may not have a proper grasp of the potential demand for a product here in the US. They seem to favor the small one shot box game concept for the most part and with the exception of UK are not dialed into the wargaming scene. Or...I could be way off ...again...on this.
I never keep the boxes but what is the minimum age warning on the planes. I was thinking of toy shop retailling as well as games shops.
I never keep the boxes but what is the minimum age warning on the planes. I was thinking of toy shop retailling as well as games shops.
Not suitable for children under three on the WoG packaging Gary.
Used to see Famous Aces etc in Toy shop game sections but the cost didn't help the cause. Didn't see any models.
Flying Officer Kyte
07-01-2018, 02:15
What we need is a person who has and wants to invest some big money into a game that promotes history, comradery and aviation to a broad spectrum of people of all ages across the world. I don't know, someone like Peter Jackson? Or that Flying Officer Kyte person . . .
I go for Peter Jackson! The game is bankrupting that Flying Officer Kyte person as it is.:minis::money:https://sailsofglory.org/images/smilies/SGN/minis.png and now Tripods.:eek: No wonder I have taken to:FOK::FOK:
Rob.
Try this site for the Zvezda models WWW:NWSWARGAMING.NET. He sells Zvezda models for $3.49 which is cheap. I have the Ju 52 and the Il2 which I use as a C-47.
I go for Peter Jackson! The game is bankrupting that Flying Officer Kyte person as it is.:minis::money:https://sailsofglory.org/images/smilies/SGN/minis.png and now Tripods.:eek: No wonder I have taken to:FOK::FOK:
Rob.
Pretty sure you were :FOK::FOK:ing before WoW :slysmile:
Karl
Shadowcat
07-01-2018, 14:31
Bob, deal with NWS all the time, his prices can not be beat. If it not in stock his wait time can be a bit long though. If you call him though be warned...he likes to talk your ear off.
I have never talked to him but have had good service for the few things I ordered.
Ideally BRS would have 3-4 more fighter releases prior to bombers and transports. However, Warlord found themselves in a situation where there was a demand for more model types in front of their production schedule. They responded with an, "enjoy this while you wait" offering because they realize that gaps in availability will kill even the best product.
milcoll73
07-03-2018, 19:48
Ideally BRS would have 3-4 more fighter releases prior to bombers and transports. However, Warlord found themselves in a situation where there was a demand for more model types in front of their production schedule. They responded with an, "enjoy this while you wait" offering because they realize that gaps in availability will kill even the best product.
^this^ ares............
milcoll73
07-03-2018, 19:50
Try this site for the Zvezda models WWW:NWSWARGAMING.NET. He sells Zvezda models for $3.49 which is cheap. I have the Ju 52 and the Il2 which I use as a C-47.
ive got a bunch of zvezda kits in the pipeline pending a place to store them lol!
OldGuy59
07-03-2018, 20:05
Ideally BRS would have 3-4 more fighter releases prior to bombers and transports. However, Warlord found themselves in a situation where there was a demand for more model types in front of their production schedule. They responded with an, "enjoy this while you wait" offering because they realize that gaps in availability will kill even the best product.
^this^ ares............
I was laughing so hard, I was crying... Oh, wait. I was crying. :hmm: :dazed: :cry:
Ideally BRS would have 3-4 more fighter releases prior to bombers and transports. However, Warlord found themselves in a situation where there was a demand for more model types in front of their production schedule. They responded with an, "enjoy this while you wait" offering because they realize that gaps in availability will kill even the best product.
Which already puts them further ahead in the game than Ares, which somehow seems to have not yet grasped this reality.
It's difficult. The wings model requires ares to make a huge upfront investment in each production run, which is a big risk for the company to take on. I don't know thier financials, but they don;t seem to be an enormous company and short of some hige explosion of interest in WGS, I don't see things changing. they'd need to spend a huge amount on both product and promotion and I'm not sure they have the resources. warlord can fill out their range much more quickly.
I like BRS - I've bought in to it with a starter and I'm planning to buy more (6 more spitfires and 6 hurricanes when they come out). I don't mind painting, and thanks to WGS and miscmini there's already a good selection of decals available.
milcoll73
07-04-2018, 02:33
It's difficult. The wings model requires ares to make a huge upfront investment in each production run, which is a big risk for the company to take on. I don't know thier financials, but they don;t seem to be an enormous company and short of some hige explosion of interest in WGS, I don't see things changing. they'd need to spend a huge amount on both product and promotion and I'm not sure they have the resources. warlord can fill out their range much more quickly.
I like BRS - I've bought in to it with a starter and I'm planning to buy more (6 more spitfires and 6 hurricanes when they come out). I don't mind painting, and thanks to WGS and miscmini there's already a good selection of decals available.
there cant be a huge explosion of interest if the game doesnt get regularly promoted and players move on to other games for lack of novel content.
Shadowcat
07-04-2018, 08:29
Part of me wonders if Warlords plan is to use the BRS game as an excuse to get into the model market and grab a large share of the plane business. In the very short term they are supporting the BoB plane demand much better then WoG is. IF they get a decent HE 111 out real quick that will be a slam dunk for them. Biggest issue is the quality of their cheap plastic planes. They step their game up and they could be in business.
milcoll73
07-04-2018, 11:03
That may be a self-fulfilling prophesy - perhaps it is the lack of product that inhibits growth of the player base rather than a lack of demand restricting expansion.
ive seen this 1st hand on several occasions.
clipper1801
07-04-2018, 13:24
Not so sure it's a plan to rule the skies. The cost of steel injection molds required for molding plastic models to our level is very expensive and recouping the cost requires producing and selling thousands to break even. I recall our production to date of each release is well under 500. Add the finishing, packaging, cards etc, we are not viable market. These Zvevda models have been around several years and marketed in several realms on a scale with a long term cost/profit plan. AIM resin models have taken years to finance and produce and the production is not a huge money maker. . . I have been in the modeling and product engineering for 40+ years, believe me when i say we are really lucky to have what has been produced, the river of gaming is broad but shallow, each game rarely survives its first two years unless picked up by a parent company - even rarer . . . Back to the grill, happy 4th!
These Zvevda models have been around several years and marketed in several realms on a scale with a long term cost/profit plan.
The thing I don't understand about the Zvevda models is why they did them in more than one scale. I was in a game store and saw their Fairey Battle model and was thrilled - until I saw it was in 1/144 scale, and thus incompatible with Wings of Glory. I don't understand why they would make some models in one scale and others in another scale, especially if they're trying to reach the gaming market. They should have picked one scale and stuck with it.
Naharaht
07-04-2018, 20:36
I think the different scales are used so that they fit inside the cardboard boxes.
I thought they started life as game pieces. They did infantry stands in 1/72, Tanks & fighters at 1/100, bombers etc at 1/200.
milcoll73
07-05-2018, 02:59
The thing I don't understand about the Zvevda models is why they did them in more than one scale. I was in a game store and saw their Fairey Battle model and was thrilled - until I saw it was in 1/144 scale, and thus incompatible with Wings of Glory. I don't understand why they would make some models in one scale and others in another scale, especially if they're trying to reach the gaming market. They should have picked one scale and stuck with it.
i went ahead and got some of the 1/144th ones (including the fairy battle), lagg-3, il-2 sturmovik, po-2 biplane, and fairy battle. the lagg-3 doesnt seem bad being about the size of the ares p-47. the il is large, about the sizeof the beuafighter. the po-2 is overlarge being about the size of a 110. the battle seems ridiculously large being only a bit smaller than a b-25!!! will post pics when i get them done.
milcoll73
07-05-2018, 03:02
I thought they started life as game pieces. They did infantry stands in 1/72, Tanks & fighters at 1/100, bombers etc at 1/200.
they still are game pieces. the transports came with stat cards for the airborne troops for a game.
they still are game pieces. the transports came with stat cards for the airborne troops for a game.
The fact that they were intended from the beginning as game pieces just deepens the mystery for me. Given how most gamers are set on having scales match in their games I can't imagine Zvevda not knowing that - unless they didn't do even the most basic of research before putting out this line. I have known guys who will mix scales between types of units - for example, using 15mm for ground combat and 1/200 aircraft, but I've never known anyone who'd put 1/200 tanks and 15mm tanks on the same table. Sometimes the things game manufacturers do makes me wonder if some of them are even from our planet.
Flying Helmut
07-05-2018, 06:53
This has been covered many times.
The models need to fit within a hex/square on the boardgame map they were intended for.....................
Thus infantry = 1/72
Tanks = 1/100
Fighter aircraft = 1/144
Twin-engined bombers = 1/200
If four-engined bombers were needed for the game, they would be 1/300
All so that they can fit on the game map. They were never intended for extra-game use.
It's how you can have a Top Hat the same size as a battleship (Monopoly!)
These game pieces were not intended for use beyond their parent game.
The fact that they were intended from the beginning as game pieces just deepens the mystery for me. ... Sometimes the things game manufacturers do makes me wonder if some of them are even from our planet.
This might help explain the game a little if not the reasoning Bob !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyA5aOCLALA
This has been covered many times.
The models need to fit within a hex/square on the boardgame map they were intended for.....................
Thus infantry = 1/72
Tanks = 1/100
Fighter aircraft = 1/144
Twin-engined bombers = 1/200
If four-engined bombers were needed for the game, they would be 1/300
All so that they can fit on the game map. They were never intended for extra-game use.
It's how you can have a Top Hat the same size as a battleship (Monopoly!)
These game pieces were not intended for use beyond their parent game.
That goes back to the issue of mixing scales in the same game. I might mix scales between ground units and air units. I would not mix scales between, say, different air units. I would never play such a game, and I'm sure there are others who would feel the same way.
As to Monopoly - there's a big difference between using unrelated pieces as tokens in a board game and a military-based game where mis-scaled miniatures look... well, ridiculous. I can truthfully say I have never once heard anyone complain about scaling of the token in Monopoly, I've heard countless complaints from people who play wargames on issues of scale.
David Manley
07-05-2018, 08:58
Zvezda seem to do OK with the game so I guess not everyone is concerned.
milcoll73
07-05-2018, 11:50
The fact that they were intended from the beginning as game pieces just deepens the mystery for me. Given how most gamers are set on having scales match in their games I can't imagine Zvevda not knowing that - unless they didn't do even the most basic of research before putting out this line. I have known guys who will mix scales between types of units - for example, using 15mm for ground combat and 1/200 aircraft, but I've never known anyone who'd put 1/200 tanks and 15mm tanks on the same table. Sometimes the things game manufacturers do makes me wonder if some of them are even from our planet.
so very true on several levels lol.
Bob the different scales are because of their game not other gaming systems. I have seen someone play their game at one of the HMGS cons I go to. Also those buying these models to use with WoG check the AIM site and you can get them in 1/200. I just finished some Russian LA5's I have to take pic of and post in the hobby section.
Those who are commenting about Ares not keeping things in stock, they have improved with the starter sets and duel packs, even the mats. The current Battle of Britain Starter set got reprinted in Q2 this year, and there was no gap in availability. I'm very encouraged by this, and want to focus on this positive story amongst some of the less positive stories mentioned above :)
The original 3 mats (coast, city, countryside) just got reprinted and will be available in a few weeks in stores, and while the countryside and coast were hard to find, they released the Industrial map and No Mans Land. I genuinely think they are getting better at keeping this in stock. Now its up to retailers to put it on their shelves, and die hards like us to buy all the minis we want as they get released BEFORE they run out of stock 24 months later!
Some blog bits on the SB2 from Warlord \ Zvezda and the last part has a comparison with AIM. Bear in mind this is from a BRS POV
https://twtrb.blogspot.com/2018/07/double-barrel-russian-warlord-zvezda.html
https://twtrb.blogspot.com/2018/07/warlord-zvezda-tupolev-sb2-for-blood.html
https://twtrb.blogspot.com/2018/08/sb2-for-blood-red-skies-part-3.html
Renko
OldGuy59
08-05-2018, 14:26
Some blog bits on the SB2 from Warlord \ Zvezda and the last part has a comparison with AIM. Bear in mind this is from a BRS POV
https://twtrb.blogspot.com/2018/07/double-barrel-russian-warlord-zvezda.html
https://twtrb.blogspot.com/2018/07/warlord-zvezda-tupolev-sb2-for-blood.html
https://twtrb.blogspot.com/2018/08/sb2-for-blood-red-skies-part-3.html
Renko
Hmmm...
Did I read the end of that review (part 3) correctly? Warlord will be releasing stands and cards separately? Wouldn't that be handy for those doing home-made expansions.
Hmmm...
Did I read the end of that review (part 3) correctly? Warlord will be releasing stands and cards separately? Wouldn't that be handy for those doing home-made expansions.
Stands - yes, they have always said they intend to release stands separately, cards, probably (fingers crossed) . Warlord know they can't keep up with demand for new stuff - their production cycle for hard plastic (Clipper, are you reading this carefully?) is something in the region of a six months to a year. They know that sort of gap will kill off interest in the game, and anyway they are unable to cover anything in depth - they are not planning to release other versions of the current 5 models any time soon, so no Spit IXs for instance. They're trying to work out how to support the game in the interim while they queue up plastics. Cards are therefore a good bet, although how long remains to be seen.
Sales wise the BRS starter set has already sold out. There's a second batch on the way from China eta August. Hurricanes, 110s, 190s and Mosquito (dont ask) before the end of the year, with (probably) the next wave being P38s and P40s.
What releasing cards also does is open up rules for variants of aircraft they may never tend to produce. They can go all the way out to the "x, y, z" versions of airplanes for the investment of a stack of cards and one mold.
I agree, please don't ask about the Mosquito, I do not want them to take it back... ;)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.