Availability of WW2 Miniatures

[Sagrilarus]

I've been helping my local store with WofG issues, what to carry, how much, etc. In spite of advice they've only landed a few WWII airplanes (as in, three) and a couple of copies of the Battle of Britain kit.

The problem -- lack of availability via Alliance. Until recently they have been solely an Alliance shop, an inheritance from their sister Comic Book store. They didn't go through any other distributor. With Alliance's recent business agreement with Asmodee I mentioned to the store's inventory guy that Ares materials likely wouldn't be a priority for Alliance, and in some ways could be counter-productive to stocking Wings of Glory material. In response he said, "and there's the broken stock issue with Alliance as well." Apparently Alliance isn't terribly gentle when they pack things.

So this past month they started business with a second distributor and -- suddenly JU-87s are on the shelf. Oh my. They're wading into WofG gently, as the only real rattle they're getting for it is my monthly sessions, usually between five and ten players.

I don't know how many people have insight into the business aspect of Wings of Glory but I'd like to hear how many of you are seeing stock on shelves available for sale, WW2 planes packs in particular. It just appears that the faucet isn't open, which may be Alliance's fault or may just be that they've sold out. Don't know.

[Sagrilarus]

Bouncing this back to the top since it got inadvertently trampled.

[OldGuy59]

I've been helping my local store with WofG issues, what to carry, how much, etc. In spite of advice they've only landed a few WWII airplanes (as in, three) and a couple of copies of the Battle of Britain kit.

The problem -- lack of availability via Alliance. Until recently they have been solely an Alliance shop, an inheritance from their sister Comic Book store. They didn't go through any other distributor. With Alliance's recent business agreement with Asmodee I mentioned to the store's inventory guy that Ares materials likely wouldn't be a priority for Alliance, and in some ways could be counter-productive to stocking Wings of Glory material. In response he said, "and there's the broken stock issue with Alliance as well." Apparently Alliance isn't terribly gentle when they pack things.

So this past month they started business with a second distributor and -- suddenly JU-87s are on the shelf. Oh my. They're wading into WofG gently, as the only real rattle they're getting for it is my monthly sessions, usually between five and ten players.

I don't know how many people have insight into the business aspect of Wings of Glory but I'd like to hear how many of you are seeing stock on shelves available for sale, WW2 planes packs in particular. It just appears that the faucet isn't open, which may be Alliance's fault or may just be that they've sold out. Don't know.

North of the border, there appears to be only one distributor for Wings of Glory. That distributor appears as responsive as a pithed frog. It took repeated requests and two months to finally get the Battle of Britain starter set in to my FLGS, despite a pre-order. For my pre-order of the latest release of WWI minis, it still took two weeks to appear.

Imperial Hobbies in Richmond, BC put up prices and products fairly quickly, but Meeplemart in Toronto is still listing the latest WWI releases as 'TBA' (Note: Meeplemart was really slow with the BoB release, too). Is this a distribution issue, or a demand issue? From my FLGS's point of view, this is a 'small store with small orders' issue, as they have lots of problems with getting pre-orders for many products, especially for popular products.

I personally am not happy with whatever is happening locally, and it seems to be nationally, with exceptions.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Mike I think thisproblem of supply is endemic across the international front. Perhaps these 'importers' do not have the cash flow to carry large stocks for long periods of time and are concentrating on what sells quickly. It's a viscious circle, we need models on shelves to promote the game and we need members of the public to buy them if they don't 'cause there is no stock then how can they buy and how is the game going to expand!

[OldGuy59]

Mike I think thisproblem of supply is endemic across the international front. Perhaps these 'importers' do not have the cash flow to carry large stocks for long periods of time and are concentrating on what sells quickly. It's a viscious circle, we need models on shelves to promote the game and we need members of the public to buy them if they don't 'cause there is no stock then how can they buy and how is the game going to expand!

Well, that I can understand, and using the activity on this site as a gauge for popularity of Wings of Glory in Canada, there really isn't much demand.

That being said, I will be putting on a demo of the WWI Latest Releases at my FLGS on the 15th of July. I will be bringing samples of the new planes, and their Ace and Equipment cards along to showcase the lateset and greatest. Also, I will be using some of my home-made Ace and Equipment cards, and handing out Aerodrome business cards to promote our awesome resource for Wings of Glory. I am already promoting MosaiCon 2017 in September for another demo venue in Nanaimo. I may have boycotted WWII, but I am still pumping the game, for now.

All the above to generate some through-put of Ares product, and get more stuff in local stores.

[milcoll73]

I've been helping my local store with WofG issues, what to carry, how much, etc. In spite of advice they've only landed a few WWII airplanes (as in, three) and a couple of copies of the Battle of Britain kit.

The problem -- lack of availability via Alliance. Until recently they have been solely an Alliance shop, an inheritance from their sister Comic Book store. They didn't go through any other distributor. With Alliance's recent business agreement with Asmodee I mentioned to the store's inventory guy that Ares materials likely wouldn't be a priority for Alliance, and in some ways could be counter-productive to stocking Wings of Glory material. In response he said, "and there's the broken stock issue with Alliance as well." Apparently Alliance isn't terribly gentle when they pack things.

So this past month they started business with a second distributor and -- suddenly JU-87s are on the shelf. Oh my. They're wading into WofG gently, as the only real rattle they're getting for it is my monthly sessions, usually between five and ten players.

I don't know how many people have insight into the business aspect of Wings of Glory but I'd like to hear how many of you are seeing stock on shelves available for sale, WW2 planes packs in particular. It just appears that the faucet isn't open, which may be Alliance's fault or may just be that they've sold out. Don't know.





working at a game store ive also noted (disturbingly) distributors lessening or almost eliminating wings of glory stocks. hadnt noticed a drop off from alliance, but i have noticed a distinct drop off from ACD, golden has quite a bit but has had numerous on clearance that stocks of have run out and dont seem to be getting replaced, and southern once had the largest selection now has almost none including the latest releases. in fact last time i looked they didnt have any of the series 3 reprints at all. this disturbing trend is why ive made the business model suggestions i have. im frankly a bit worried by this trend.

ive also noticed that the last couple releases have been selling out rather faster than the series 2 reprints and earlier. not quite sure what to make of it. is it because sales have been better and they sold out quicker than in the past or are distributors just carrying smaller stocks and run out sooner and just not replaced them.

i have heard buzz thats both distributors and retailers have been unhappy over the last year or 2 over trying to compete with miniatures market and various deals and promotions offered at conventions that they felt cut into their sales potentials.

[Bobsalt]

Interestingly enough, I had a conversation about this a couple of weeks ago with the guy that owns the local game store. He had an interesting take on the issue.

He says that the problem of being chronically under-stocked on Wings of Glory is not limited to just this one game, but is an issue he has with any game that’s being produced in Europe. He pointed to a Star Wars game he says is popular in his store, and that is apparently in great demand. He says he can’t get it back in stock, and when he does get it he never gets the numbers he needs or orders. There’s apparently a much sought-after piece in this line – he says he’s never been able to get one in stock. He says he has even gone to the extent of ordering about triple what he thinks he can sell (both WoG and Star Wars) in the hopes he’ll get what he actually needs, and he still can’t get adequate stock.

He said he has never had adequate stock on Wings of Glory (or its predecessor). The day I was there he had 2 Battle of Britain starter sets, 2 Spitfires, 3 or 4 bf 109’s, several WWI aircraft, a couple of mats – and that was it. He said he simply can’t get the planes in the numbers he needs. As an example, he had several people who have asked him to order the He 111 everyone’s trying to find, and he says he’s never gotten one in spite of ordering it several times.

His take on this is that it is no coincidence that the games & items he can never get enough of are made in Europe. His opinion is that manufacturers in Europe don’t truly understand gamers in the U.S. and the amounts of money they will spend on a line of product if they get hooked on it. He said he could sell hundreds more WoG aircraft if he could just get them in stock. Meanwhile, he said he had no problems getting things restocked that were produced by U.S. companies. He’s owned this store for about 20 years or so, so I’m guessing he has some idea of what he’s talking about.

I don’t know if he’s right or wrong, but I just recently finished reading a book on global geopolitics right before I went to Origins. While there I was struck by the notion that only in the U.S could you have so much in resources used to produce things that are purely entertainment. As such, it may well be difficult for an overseas company to get their hands around just how much people like us are willing to spend on our hobby.

[robdimeglio]

Andrea Angiolino pointed me to this thread. The discussion here is very interesting, and I appreciate you worry as much as we do about the commercial health of the game.
Ares, from a distribution point of view, is essentially an American company - we do ship almost all of our production to the USA and we have a flooring agreement with Alliance. This means that typically Alliance should be the more reliable source at the distribution level, but all the other major US distributors can get stock if they order it.
There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered.
Across the US borders, things are definitely more difficult - until very recently (as you know very well), we did not have a reliable source in Australia; and while we sell to two distributors in Canada, they do not stock products very regularly. In Europe, Esdevium restocks pretty regularly, but it is essentially the only good distributor we sell directly to.

The key issue is that all miniature games have a tendency, over time, to slow down in sales per model (as more models are available). And distributors tend to be very conservative, essentially just servicing pre-orders and keeping very little stock themselves.

There IS one solution to handle this - direct sales. Until now, we have decided NOT to take this road, as we believe we can - with your help and good intro products like Battle of Britain - to keep on promoting the game so that it does not end up out of stores altogether. If we started doing direct sales, stores will have even less interest in the range, and we don't think currently this is the path to go.

On this subject - Please know that we are welcome to support stores with free Battle of Britain demo kits. If you have a FLGS in your area interested in presenting/promoting the game, he can contact us at events[at]aresgames.eu to request one.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Thanks for posting Roberto, your input on the forum is always welcome. I think the promotion kits are a fantastic way of introducing Wings of Glory to new players.

[Bobsalt]

There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered.

I guess the question that needs to be asked here is - given the obvious popularity and demand of these models - will they be reprinted?

My other thought is this. Several of the models that are, according to your statement, still available - show as out of stock at all of the online retailers. If they are available at your warehouse, but stores can't get them - and the owner of the store I mentioned says he can't - it sounds like there are serious issues with your distributor(s). From the other posts in this thread it sounds like like the stores are all telling a similar story. I won't pretend to understand how the distribution system in the game industry works, but if there is an issue with your distributors (and it sounds like there is) would it be possible to bypass them and allow retailers to order directly from Ares?

[Sagrilarus]

Alright, just had another WofG session at my local store on Monday, and a Kaboom card gave me the chance to talk to the stock manager for a few minutes.

At one point I joked that I should have gotten into X-Wing instead because there's always stock. His reply -- "Oh no there isn't. The stuff you see on the shelf is what everybody already has. There's stuff that's in demand that we can't get. Fantasy Flight is worse than most." That surprised me when he said it. So you're off the hook Roberto!

But, he said they cannot get stock for WofG through Alliance. They have orders out that are not filled. They found a different supplier that had some material, and this is their first step away from ordering from Alliance only. So they're looking.

I'll note that this is a killer store, exceptionally well managed and always looking for feedback. They keep changing locations because they're growing so quickly. When I told them there are planes out there that they didn't have they perked up and started looking for an alternative distributor.

Roberto, Andrea, I'm not going to tell you how to run your business. But if you have information like you said above -- "There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered" you might do well to get it out to us, like, via website or newsletter, so that we can pass the word along to our local stores. It may be that my local guy is shading the truth a bit, but regardless of that, if Alliance starts seeing more orders because evangelists are telling stores to keep ordering in spite of OOS, they might crack their wallet open a little and get some more materials into the channels.

Oh, and I need the address of your U.S. warehouse. You accept cash presumably.

[Sagrilarus]

There IS one solution to handle this - direct sales.

By the way, does this mean direct sales to consumers, or direct sales to retailers?

[Bobsalt]

As I said, I don't know how the game business works, but I do have first-hand experience with distribution problems.

Back in the early 90's I was a district manager for several years for what at the time was the largest music and video distribution company in the world. We were the primary distributor for music and video for Walmart and Kmart, among others. One of the main complaints that we received regularly from Walmart was that we never had adequate stock of Disney movies in their stores. There were circumstances involved, but the primary factor here was that our company didn't do its job. There was adequate stock at Disney/Buena Vista, but we didn't order sufficient quantities. Often we did have adequate inventory in our warehouses, but we didn't get it into the stores. Eventually, Walmart had enough and signed a deal with Disney for direct distribution.

While I do believe that Ares has underestimated the demand for the WoG line, the fact that several of us seem to be telling the same story about stores complaining about not being able to get enough stock suggests that there are some serious issues with the distributors. When you say you say you have good quantities of product in your warehouse, but stores say they can't get product, I'd say someone with Ares needs to have a serious chat with your distributors.

Or, follow the Walmart example and allow retailers to order direct.

[robdimeglio]

Apart from my current job at Ares, I have been selling games as a distributor for a long time. Malfunctioning in a distribution chain are often present when the product is in low demand (and in this case, the store does not see the merit of stocking; and often in this case the store clerk gives lazy answers "it's not out yet", "it's out of stock"; or the distributor does not see the merit of restocking, maybe because only a few of his retail customers ask for product, and each of them in low quantities).

Malfunctioning in the distribution chain can also happen for the opposite reason - a product is in very high demand, so nobody is properly stocked along the chain (distributors get allocated, for example, and so they don't have enough stock to service everyone, for example).

That said, and assuming the store (at least in this case) is doing its job properly - and as we know what is in our warehouse - then the fault lies with the distributor (which is especially weird in the case of Alliance, as I explained). So the best thing to have a better understanding of what is going on is to have a clear picture of WHAT and WHEN the store was trying to order and from which distributor. You are welcome to send us an email to info[at]aresgames.eu indicating the issue (e.g. Dragon Games in Minneapolis ordered the BOB set from ACD and they are not receiving it).

Direct sales: what we do NOT want to do is a full-fledged ecommerce, bypassing stores and wholesalers. If a store has sufficient business with our products, please invite them to contact us at sales[at]aresgames.eu. We will talk with them, and find together what is the best way to get them stocked (through a distributor, or directly if this is necessary).

[Bobsalt]

I'll pass this along to the store owner - if he doesn't follow up, I guess he can't complain. :)

I would still like to know if the out-of-stock P-40s and He 111's will be reprinted?

[OldGuy59]

Andrea Angiolino pointed me to this thread. The discussion here is very interesting, and I appreciate you worry as much as we do about the commercial health of the game.
Ares, from a distribution point of view, is essentially an American company - we do ship almost all of our production to the USA and we have a flooring agreement with Alliance. This means that typically Alliance should be the more reliable source at the distribution level, but all the other major US distributors can get stock if they order it.
There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered.
Across the US borders, things are definitely more difficult - until very recently (as you know very well), we did not have a reliable source in Australia; and while we sell to two distributors in Canada, they do not stock products very regularly. In Europe, Esdevium restocks pretty regularly, but it is essentially the only good distributor we sell directly to.

The key issue is that all miniature games have a tendency, over time, to slow down in sales per model (as more models are available). And distributors tend to be very conservative, essentially just servicing pre-orders and keeping very little stock themselves.

There IS one solution to handle this - direct sales. Until now, we have decided NOT to take this road, as we believe we can - with your help and good intro products like Battle of Britain - to keep on promoting the game so that it does not end up out of stores altogether. If we started doing direct sales, stores will have even less interest in the range, and we don't think currently this is the path to go.

On this subject - Please know that we are welcome to support stores with free Battle of Britain demo kits. If you have a FLGS in your area interested in presenting/promoting the game, he can contact us at events[at]aresgames.eu to request one.

Roberto,
Thank you very much for your overview of this issue. I would like to know the two distributors in Canada, as my FLGS is only aware of one, and that one is not very responsive. You can PM me, or email me, if you'd rather not provide that info on this thread.

Also, the offer of a Battle of Britain Starter Set for local stores is awesome, for those interested in demonstrating the game. The 77th Anniversary of the Battle of Britain is during a 'local' convention (Links: M-Con.ca (https://m-con.ca/) ; M-Con 2017 - Wings of Glory Appearance (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?27984-M-Con-2017-Wings-of-Glory-Appearance&p=451587&viewfull=1#post451587)). I won't be showcasing WWII, but there are now players in the area that might, and a FLGS that is willing to support the demos. I will get the store event coordinator to contact your North America Rep and set something up.

Some Duel Packs for WWI would be nice, too. Any plans for Duel Pack for WWII? Spitfire Mk.V vs FW 190A, perhaps?

[csadn]

I'm not sure if it's Cause, or Effect, but: Most of the FLGSs I know of are operating on the same model as the Victorian-era gaming clubs -- run a game, the House gets a cut; and there's Light Food available.

So I'm wondering if Direct Sales may not become a necessity....

[Stumptonian]

I wonder how much Credit Limits play into stock replenishment.
I also wonder if orders are "supply or cancel" as in "No Backorders".
That could make it difficult.

[Sagrilarus]

I'm not sure if it's Cause, or Effect, but: Most of the FLGSs I know of are operating on the same model as the Victorian-era gaming clubs -- run a game, the House gets a cut; and there's Light Food available.

So I'm wondering if Direct Sales may not become a necessity....

Yeah, but this is a game that really shines with more players. For those of you haven't had the chance, a game with 20 players really kicks ass. About the only way you're going to get that is through organized play, almost assuredly at a game shop for almost all of us.

[Jager]

That said, and assuming the store (at least in this case) is doing its job properly - and as we know what is in our warehouse - then the fault lies with the distributor (which is especially weird in the case of Alliance, as I explained).

Based on the lengthy experience my LFGS has had with Alliance (with some different product lines), as well as issues this last Origins (from a few vendors I talked to), Alliance has serious issues with getting things done right.
Karl

[Sagrilarus]

I've had three retailers refer to Alliance as something they have to deal with, not something they want to deal with. One called it an arranged marriage.

One mentioned that they get a lot of broken stock from them, more than from other distributors.

[OldGuy59]

...
... and while we sell to two distributors in Canada, they do not stock products very regularly. ...


Roberto,
... I would like to know the two distributors in Canada, as my FLGS is only aware of one, and that one is not very responsive. You can PM me, or email me, if you'd rather not provide that info on this thread.

...

Of the two distributors that my local store deals with, the 'biggest and most responsive' has stated, to my store anyway, that they will not distribute Wings of Glory product. So, if there are still two distributors for Wings of Glory product in Canada, it would be nice to pass those names to my FLGS, Roberto.

Update: I am now booked at two Vancouver Island gaming events to demonstrate Wings of Glory in the next two months. Besides M-Con in September, for which I have found a WWII game host, there is the 'The Board Game House/Curious Comics Mega Gaming Event' on August 5th.

A good, reliable distribution source would be nice.

[SeaJaySee]

Roberto,
Any plans for Duel Pack for WWII? Spitfire Mk.V vs FW 190A, perhaps?

Ooooh! WW2 Duel Pack would be nice BoB - Hurricane v bf110 maybe.

Is it likely the WW2 RAP will make a re-appearance or will we have to wait for the BoB starter sets to be exhausted?

[Sagrilarus]

I had a brief training session at my local game store, because a customer came in looking for the Wings of War Deluxe Set for World War I and they couldn't speak to the issue with him. The next time I was in one of the guys explicitly asked me for an explanation.

With the Battle of Britain set sitting next to the Duel Packs it doesn't look like they are the starter kit. The two games have a different shape to their footprint. So I talked three of their employees through the available packages for new players. My guess is that this is pretty clear on Ares' web site, but the store stocks more or less every game from every publisher available in the United States, so they don't have the time to do the search to find out.

I have a very good relationship with my Game Store's staff which I realize is an exception to the rule. But it may be worth speaking to your local guys to make sure they understand the packaging available for each WWI and WWII. They may be very open to the learning opportunity.

[milcoll73]

I had a brief training session at my local game store, because a customer came in looking for the Wings of War Deluxe Set for World War I and they couldn't speak to the issue with him. The next time I was in one of the guys explicitly asked me for an explanation.

With the Battle of Britain set sitting next to the Duel Packs it doesn't look like they are the starter kit. The two games have a different shape to their footprint. So I talked three of their employees through the available packages for new players. My guess is that this is pretty clear on Ares' web site, but the store stocks more or less every game from every publisher available in the United States, so they don't have the time to do the search to find out.

I have a very good relationship with my Game Store's staff which I realize is an exception to the rule. But it may be worth speaking to your local guys to make sure they understand the packaging available for each WWI and WWII. They may be very open to the learning opportunity.



and the distributor listings are, more often as not, no help. very brief (if any description) and often they use the same pic over and over again, or no pic at all.

[BobP]

I was at Games & Stuff (Glenn Burnie) last week and they do not stock Wings or Sails but said they could order if needed. The only historical type game I saw was Flames of War. Most of what I saw were RPG's and board games, which were not historically oriented. Seems to me that unless you go to a convention, HMGS type or other local ones, most stores cater to things other then historical games. Could be the reason distributers are slow with WOG as they see it as not a big seller but we are always looking for new or older releases.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

I was at Games & Stuff (Glenn Burnie) last week and they do not stock Wings or Sails but said they could order if needed. The only historical type game I saw was Flames of War. Most of what I saw were RPG's and board games, which were not historically oriented. Seems to me that unless you go to a convention, HMGS type or other local ones, most stores cater to things other then historical games. Could be the reason distributers are slow with WOG as they see it as not a big seller but we are always looking for new or older releases.

Good Games in Australia does the same thing. They regard Wings as a niche game, preferring to focus on Xwing, cards games, Warhammer, etc. It all stems back to the 'Wings Interregnum' of 2011-2012. When I went to the new Good Games store just down the road from my office and mentioned Wings the assistant said, 'Oh that game folded years ago.' When I mentioned it was now available as Wings of Glory he seemed genuinely surprised. This brings us to the crux of the matter - without stock on shelves the game won't grow. With Battle of Britain going strong my local area has seen big increases in sales. One new player is so keen he has dropped $1K in just over a month playing catch up. My FLGS now has a weekly order with the supplier, the product is moving that fast. The converse however is also true - if the supply of miniatures dries up interest will wane in all but the most diehard fans (he says, looking around this forum!). That is the fickle nature of many in the modern gaming community.

[Sagrilarus]

I was at Games & Stuff (Glenn Burnie) last week and they do not stock Wings or Sails but said they could order if needed. The only historical type game I saw was Flames of War. Most of what I saw were RPG's and board games, which were not historically oriented. Seems to me that unless you go to a convention, HMGS type or other local ones, most stores cater to things other then historical games. Could be the reason distributers are slow with WOG as they see it as not a big seller but we are always looking for new or older releases.

Keep in mind that Games & Stuff has Family Game Store to its west that has Wings of Glory and Sails of Glory, Canton Games to its north that is six feet deep with historical gaming, and Third Eye Games & Hobbies to the south that carries Wings of Glory, has carried Sails of Glory, and is trying very hard to carry more. So I think that's Games & Stuff's decision is just one of what they want to focus on.

Games & Stuff used to carry Wings of Glory.

[milcoll73]

Good Games in Australia does the same thing. They regard Wings as a niche game, preferring to focus on Xwing, cards games, Warhammer, etc. It all stems back to the 'Wings Interregnum' of 2011-2012. When I went to the new Good Games store just down the road from my office and mentioned Wings the assistant said, 'Oh that game folded years ago.' When I mentioned it was now available as Wings of Glory he seemed genuinely surprised. This brings us to the crux of the matter - without stock on shelves the game won't grow. With Battle of Britain going strong my local area has seen big increases in sales. One new player is so keen he has dropped $1K in just over a month playing catch up. My FLGS now has a weekly order with the supplier, the product is moving that fast. The converse however is also true - if the supply of miniatures dries up interest will wane in all but the most diehard fans (he says, looking around this forum!). That is the fickle nature of many in the modern gaming community.



glad to hear its thriving somewhere. i cant seem to generate much interest in my area anymore.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

glad to hear its thriving somewhere. i cant seem to generate much interest in my area anymore.

I am trying to revive the corpse of the old Wings of War player base and bring in fresh blood through public and campaign play. Set up a table in the shop, push planes around, get the punters in, sign them up to a campaign, get them to buy planes and invest in the system.

It is a slow process but seems to be working. And it is only possible due to ready availability of product for the first time in years.

[Ken at Sunrise]

We have four stores that I can get to. None have Wings of Glory WW1 or WW2 on the shelves and only one has them available for On-Line ordering.

[Sagrilarus]

It's a critical mass thing. I've told my local store I'd run a demo day (I do presentations for a living and game announce on the side) and the offer above of a no-charge demo copy of Battle of Britain got the attention of my local store's owner. So I may be actively hawking for them in the near future. That said, there almost needs to be a monthly session nearby to keep people involved enough to make the trip to the store to keep up on the hobby. This is true for virtually any combat-oriented game, where the subject matter is esoteric enough to not attract a majority of players in general.

[Stealth7]

There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered.
.

I've tried to order the P51D/Ellington repeatedly and have been searching all avenues online with no success. So there still seems to be a disconnect somewhere.

[milcoll73]

I've tried to order the P51D/Ellington repeatedly and have been searching all avenues online with no success. So there still seems to be a disconnect somewhere.



weve got a couple at the friendly local games store where im at.

[Stealth7]

weve got a couple at the friendly local games store where im at.

Who would that be? Will they ship?

[milcoll73]

Who would that be? Will they ship?

dreadfully good games 202 south sugar st. celina oh 45822.

possible depending on the size of the order. ill talk to the owner and see what he says.

[Bobsalt]

I spoke again with my friend who owns the game store here this afternoon. He says his distributer has told him repeatedly that the problem is with Ares. They tell him they can't get the product from Ares, which in turn means they can't get it out to the stores. Since he has the same problem with all of the products that come from overseas he feels that this is where the problem lies.

Regardless of where the root of the problem lies I think it's evident from the fact that so many of us are telling the same story of stores telling their customers that they are not able to get product in stock that the problem is a real one, and that - for whatever reason - the stores can't get the product they need and want into their stores. I know that if this was my game I would definitely be looking into this to find out where the problem is so I could get it resolved.

[BellMW54]

All I know is everybody I've played with has loved WoG but has either been unable to purchase the game or, if successful in that respect, has not been able to find any of the miniatures he's wanted. My wife has even had the same responses from Facebook friends who have inquired about the games we've played by ourselves at home that she's posted on her site. We've shared our sources with all comers only to follow up ourselves and find, disappointingly, they've all been right! Granted, BoB is now available and, from what I can see, in good quantities. But, with the exception of a handful of new releases or less popular and obscure planes, everything else in the WoG line, WWI and WWII, seems to be "sold out" both online and in stores.

I personally believe the recent higher rate of purchase is due to most people (myself included) simply scarfing up whatever they can get before it becomes unavailable! The market is therefore being limited to those who have been playing for years and are tuned in to what is being produced. Only a few newcomers (those lucky enough who have friends in the hobby) are aware of its existence and, even so, are barely able to break into what has unwittingly become a rather exclusive club. Sadly, this will not allow the following to grow. If the shelves aren't stocked, the game will die.

[Bobsalt]

This all reminds me of a Dagwood comic strip I saw years ago. Dagwood is driving and at a store he shops at often he sees a sign that reads "Going Out of Business." He thinks as long as he's there he will go in to get some item (I don't remember what). When he can't find it he asks a clerk about it, and the clerk responds "They always sold out as soon as we got them and we couldn't be bothered having to constantly reorder them." The last frame shows him back outside the store and saying "Well, that explains the sign."

That's kind of the vibe I'm getting with WoG.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

This all reminds me of a Dagwood comic strip I saw years ago. Dagwood is driving and at a store he shops at often he sees a sign that reads "Going Out of Business." He thinks as long as he's there he will go in to get some item (I don't remember what). When he can't find it he asks a clerk about it, and the clerk responds "They always sold out as soon as we got them and we couldn't be bothered having to constantly reorder them." The last frame shows him back outside the store and saying "Well, that explains the sign."

That's kind of the vibe I'm getting with WoG.

Shop owners these days don't want to hold a big inventory, preferring to buy product on order by the customer. The problem is that for Wings of Glory here in Australia there are only two suppliers, who also don't want to hold huge stocks. So the customer comes in looking for the game or sees it being played and gets excited - which would be exactly the right time for the seller to pounce - except that the shop doesn't have the necessary stock on the shelf to sell right away. If it has to come from interstate or overseas by the time they receive the goods the customer's passions have cooled and you either get no sale or sell less than you would have on the day.

[Bobsalt]

On this subject - Please know that we are welcome to support stores with free Battle of Britain demo kits. If you have a FLGS in your area interested in presenting/promoting the game, he can contact us at events[at]aresgames.eu to request one.
In re-reading this thread I just saw this comment.

Please take this in the spirit intended - I am NOT trying to be snarky here, but I do have to make a point. I think it's great that you're offering a BoB kit to any store that wants to run a demo - indeed, I wish more companies would do this. However, how many stores are going to want to run a demo of a game they can't get in stock?

[Carl_Brisgamer]

In re-reading this thread I just saw this comment.

Please take this in the spirit intended - I am NOT trying to be snarky here, but I do have to make a point. I think it's great that you're offering a BoB kit to any store that wants to run a demo - indeed, I wish more companies would do this. However, how many stores are going to want to run a demo of a game they can't get in stock?

Hi Bob, I think the point of Robert's email was that with a few exceptions stock is available from Ares, but for some reason shops can't or won't order it in at all or in sufficient quantities to satisfy or generate demand. Ares needs to examine the supply chain and see where the bottlenecks are occurring if that is the problem.

[Bobsalt]

Hi Bob, I think the point of Robert's email was that with a few exceptions stock is available from Ares, but for some reason shops can't or won't order it in at all or in sufficient quantities to satisfy or generate demand. Ares needs to examine the supply chain and see where the bottlenecks are occurring if that is the problem.
From the posts in this thread everyone seems to be saying the same thing - that the game store in their area can't get stock from the distributers. I appreciate the fact that Ares doesn't want to go the direct route and cut out the brick and mortar game stores. But if we have to go through an online retailer to be able to get anything isn't the effect the same? I'd rather buy from the store here in town, but he can't get anything in stock, so it's either buy online or not buy at all.

The only thing more frustrating than seeing a game you want and not having the money to buy it is having the money to buy a game, but you can't get it.

[Tristan]

I ordered the BOB starter set 2 weeks ago from amazon. As of yet it is still not dispatched, as is the 2 hurricanes , but a mk9 spitfire should be delivered tomorrow. If amazon has problems getting new stock then it must be a production issue. The spitfire was out 5-6 yrs ago?? :hmm:

[Carl_Brisgamer]

I ordered the BOB starter set 2 weeks ago from amazon. As of yet it is still not dispatched, as is the 2 hurricanes , but a mk9 spitfire should be delivered tomorrow. If amazon has problems getting new stock then it must be a production issue. The spitfire was out 5-6 yrs ago?? :hmm:

It would depend on how much stock the company keeps on hand. I get the impression the popularity of Battle of Britain product has caught some by surprise, as they have likely stocked levels on the basis of previous WGS releases. The Spitfire Mk.IX has probably been sitting on their racks for the last couple of years.

[Jager]

I ordered the BOB starter set 2 weeks ago from amazon. As of yet it is still not dispatched, as is the 2 hurricanes , but a mk9 spitfire should be delivered tomorrow. If amazon has problems getting new stock then it must be a production issue. The spitfire was out 5-6 yrs ago?? :hmm:

Amazon should have said how many were in stock, on the page. At least Amazon US does. I'm assuming UK is the same.
This is true even with third party dealers. So if the haven't shipped yet, I would complain to the vendor, and then Amazon.
Karl

[Tristan]

I was wrong. It has been dispatched 5 days ago. . It should be delivered on the 30 Aug. A month in transit. Sigh

[Flying Helmut]

I was wrong. It has been dispatched 5 days ago. . It should be delivered on the 30 Aug. A month in transit. Sigh

Next time, try "Entoyment" in Poole first.
Pete has the entire Battle of Britain range (minus the He-111 of course) on the shelves, despite my repeated attempts to clear them, and they sell online.

[Canestri10]

Meanwhile I have a Zero and a Dawn of War boxed set sitting in the Buy & Sell forum for over a week with no interest.... at all....

[Flying Helmut]

Meanwhile I have a Zero and a Dawn of War boxed set sitting in the Buy & Sell forum for over a week with no interest.... at all....

Sorry, mate - I'm maxed out on both! :minis::money::minis::money::minis::money:

[Flying Helmut]

I've tried to order the P51D/Ellington repeatedly and have been searching all avenues online with no success. So there still seems to be a disconnect somewhere.

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?28143-WGS-For-Sale-He-111-P-40-P-51-B-17

There's one for sale here, in your own country, no less!

[Bobsalt]

There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered.
I was just on the website for Miniature Market (which I assume is one of the major online retailers). In addition to the aforementioned P-40s and He-111s, they also list the following as out of stock:

FW-190 D-13 (Gotz)
Bf.110 C-4 (Schupp)
Messerschmitt Bf.110 C-4 (Radusch)
WWII - P-51D Mustang (Ellington)
WWII - Bristol Beaufighter Mk.VIF (Davoud)
WWII - FW-190 D-9 (Wubke)
Republic P-47D Thunderbolt (RAF 135 Squadron)

Of these, I have been unable to find the Ellington P-51 or the Schupp bf 110 ANYWHERE. I was able to find a couple of the Ellington P-51s used, but I know this is one that many other players haven't been able to find. I consider this seller's stock to actually be pretty good, as they have several models for sale I don't see anywhere else.

I'm not trying to be a pain or be argumentative here. I do however think this issue is more serious than you think that it is.

I'd also like to repeat my earlier question - given that the P-40s and green He-111s are obviously wildly popular, are there any plans to reprint these?

[Carl_Brisgamer]

I was just on the website for Miniature Market (which I assume is one of the major online retailers). In addition to the aforementioned P-40s and He-111s, they also list the following as out of stock:

FW-190 D-13 (Gotz)
Bf.110 C-4 (Schupp)
Messerschmitt Bf.110 C-4 (Radusch)
WWII - P-51D Mustang (Ellington)
WWII - Bristol Beaufighter Mk.VIF (Davoud)
WWII - FW-190 D-9 (Wubke)
Republic P-47D Thunderbolt (RAF 135 Squadron)

Of these, I have been unable to find the Ellington P-51 or the Schupp bf 110 ANYWHERE. I was able to find a couple of the Ellington P-51s used, but I know this is one that many other players haven't been able to find. I consider this seller's stock to actually be pretty good, as they have several models for sale I don't see anywhere else.

I'm not trying to be a pain or be argumentative here. I do however think this issue is more serious than you think that it is.

I'd also like to repeat my earlier question - given that the P-40s and green He-111s are obviously wildly popular, are there any plans to reprint these?

Australian distributor Rivalsky Games (run by our own Xen here on the forum) has most of those aircraft available right now. I think the only one he doesn't have is the Schupp Bf 110 but that was because he sold his last couple two weeks back and has ordered more from Ares. If he can get them I don't understand why others cannot.

[milcoll73]

Who would that be? Will they ship?

i checked and hes not interested in getting into mail order stuff. if your interested im sure we could work something out with me buying them for you and shipping them if youre interested. also i see that youre in ohio. if your close enough maybe you could just visit the store!

[Bobsalt]

Australian distributor Rivalsky Games (run by our own Xen here on the forum) has most of those aircraft available right now. I think the only one he doesn't have is the Schupp Bf 110 but that was because he sold his last couple two weeks back and has ordered more from Ares. If he can get them I don't understand why others cannot.
I would say that this proves both points that are being made in this thread. Roberto says there is plenty of stock (on most items) at the Ares warehouse. The fact that a store in Australia can get items would be proof that there is adequate stock available. However, the fact that an Australian store can get product and U.S. stores cannot get the same product would also be proof of the contention that there is an issue with the distributors in the U.S.

[OldGuy59]

I would say that this proves both points that are being made in this thread. Roberto says there is plenty of stock (on most items) at the Ares warehouse. The fact that a store in Australia can get items would be proof that there is adequate stock available. However, the fact that an Australian store can get product and U.S. stores cannot get the same product would also be proof of the contention that there is an issue with the distributors in the U.S.

Interesting that USA stores are having an issue. Here in Canada, 'small store' syndrome is an issue. Curious Comics in Victoria and Imperial Hobbies in Vancouver seem to be able to get things in, but my FLGS can't seem to get planes in anything like a timely manner. Even with pre-orders.

BTW: Roberto hasn't provided the Canadian distributors names.

[Jager]

BTW: Roberto hasn't provided the Canadian distributors names.
Are you sure they don't just get them from USA distributers?
Karl

[OldGuy59]

Are you sure they don't just get them from USA distributers?
Karl
Very! There are legal and financial implications involved in distributing across borders.

That being said, I'm also very sure all the minis come from the warehouse in the USA. So,besides the exchange rate and customs issues, there is yet another level of mark-up added to Canadian prices.

[Xen]

Hmm. I missed this conversation! I thought it might still be worth commenting.

I run Rival Sky Games from Australia and am aspiring to carry as much stock as Australian retailers need. While I am a small operation, I have been placing orders a frequently as I can, my next order is coming by sea and I believe its close to 2 cubic metres of stock. (including lots of Sails of Glory!) So yes, it is very possible to get stock into Australia from Ares!!

However, USA's main distributor of the product Alliance Games IS in my experience possible to buy from. Some earlier posts mention that US retailers are struggling to purchase goods from Alliance, but I have not experienced this problem? Its rare that I need to order from them, but they are definitely much better than GTS distribution and ACD.

Robert, I think what you have said is not completely correct on what is left in stock.
"There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered."

Yep, the P40's and green Heinkel are out of stock. But so are 2 of the FW190's and Ellington's Mustang.

However I don't think this is a major problem I completely understand that these items can't be kept in production 100% of the time. Ares is doing very well at reprinting these, and the squadron packs have been a real success, at least in Australia they have!
The Battle of Britain theming here was a big part of it being popular. Themed releases give a context that less knowledgeable players can lock on to and immerse themselves in.
It also empowers knowledgeable players like Carl a fellow Aussie here to run campaigns around planes and starter sets he knows will be available for the next few years.

When the reprints of the Immelmanns and DH2's comes out, it might be beneficial to release them under the banner of 'fokker scourge' or something like that. It adds story, which is the way all board games are going these days.

I hear rumours occasionally of scenario packs coming out in the future... The store in Melbourne who places the biggest orders with me is frothing for something like this. Again, it adds to the story.

So. Back to the original topic, from my experience, the stock is available at Ares. You just have to buy the hottest items within the first 24-36 months of them being released. My perspective is that 24-36 months is a decent amount of time for a niche product like this to be available. For example, yes Ellington's red tailed Mustang is out of stock. I noticed it was gone around May 2017 this year I believe? What year was it released? I'm struggling to find its original release date. Gotz sold out possibly the month before, and Wubke several months later. Everything else from that series was still available last time I checked. As far as I can tell, those minis were released in 2014 were they?

True, the Gotha's sold out incredibly fast, within 18 months maybe? which is way to fast, but ARES reprinted them immediately!!! :D :D :D

I think Ares is doing a fantastic job. We are a niche market, but the future is bright. If we are having issues with access to product from distributors like Alliance, in my experience, you just have to keep knocking on those doors. The squeaky wheel gets the oil!

Bring on more themed releases and campaign packs!!!

[Sagrilarus]

I'd be curious to hear what the size of your typical order is from Alliance. I have two retailers telling me that Alliance often sends a subset of what they order, and at times sends the wrong stuff. I've seen the "wrong stuff" sent and it's often really wrong, not like almost-but-not-quite wrong. At times I think they're low-priority purchasers because their requests are small.

As it stands now the local guy has one of each duel pack, two Battle of Britain sets (and they took photos of my most recent session, playing WW2) and one of each of the squadron packs. So it appears that they ordered the basics and have received them. We'll see if the photo goes into a weekly newsletter. That might generate some interests.

[Xen]

They generally only ship for free on orders of $300 usd, so I've never ordered under that. I've only used them twice though so, I guess I haven't had the time to see the errors happen?
I haven't had damaged stock from them either.

[BobP]

Other then here I order from Miniature Market. You can see that the popular planes are the first to go but they have others of the same plane but limited in numbers. They still have old WoW planes, D-520 and VAl. I understand that the D-520 is not a big seller.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

The Battle of Britain theming here was a big part of it being popular. Themed releases give a context that less knowledgeable players can lock on to and immerse themselves in.
It also empowers knowledgeable players like Carl a fellow Aussie here to run campaigns around planes and starter sets he knows will be available for the next few years.

Bring on more themed releases and campaign packs!!!

It is only thanks to a steady supply of miniatures available here in Australia that we have been able to rekindle interest in Wings of Glory. The prospective players were always there, but without product you can't run campaigns and build the player base.

So well done you :thumbsup:

PS and yes more themed/theatre of operations squadron packs would definitely be winners in my book.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Other then here I order from Miniature Market. They still have old WoW planes, D-520 and VAl. I understand that the D-520 is not a big seller.

I just bought three D.520 Stellas from them for repaints at $5 a piece, good deal.

[Stumptonian]

,,, the D-520 is not a big seller.

A lot more interesting to me after seeing Carl's Polish and France 1940 campaign. I might actually bust mine out of their shrink wrap.
:thumbsup:

[Carl_Brisgamer]

A lot more interesting to me after seeing Carl's Polish and France 1940 campaign. I might actually bust mine out of their shrink wrap.
:thumbsup:

With the Bf 109E-3s in print they have a ready made opponent.

[Naharaht]

If there was some way to find out exactly which items were 'sitting in the U.S. warehouse doing nothing', then perhaps Keith could order some, if anyone here wanted some. I know that there are many 'ifs' involved .

[Tristan]

Flying tigers vs those damn jap zeroes would be a great kick off for me
4 zeroes ( a6m2 I think army colour ) and 3 flying tigers ( possibly any p-40's would do if the decals were available )...

[Naharaht]

Is the 'Now Available' list on the Upcoming, Available, Out of Stock page on the Ares website a list of what is sitting in the U.S.A. warehouse just waiting to be ordered?

[Xen]

No. Its meant to be, but its rarely updated. There is a bunch listed there as available that are actually sold out at Ares. (unless they keep a stash for themselves only that is for events they have stalls at, or other reasons)

[Bobsalt]

If there was some way to find out exactly which items were 'sitting in the U.S. warehouse doing nothing', then perhaps Keith could order some, if anyone here wanted some. I know that there are many 'ifs' involved .
I’m not sure what the answer is. Is Keith the guy running the Aerodrome store? If so, perhaps something could be arranged to comb the warehouse and ship him any of the harder to find items – like the Ellington P-51. Better to have them sell online through him than to have them sit in a warehouse unordered by US distributers.

What follows is strictly anecdotal, but strengthens further my belief that these is an issue with distribution in the US.

In my job I travel a lot by car. One of the things I do when I’m in different cities, is, when time allows, try to track down local game stores (if there is one) and check them out. My travels in the past month has taken me to 6 stores (plus the one here in Louisville).

In the stores I visited in Murray and Paducah, KY, and one store in Nashville, TN, I found that there was very little in the way of historical gaming. All 3 have large areas for open gaming, but their clientele is almost all into role playing or games of that ilk, boardgames like Catan, or stuff like Star Wars X-Wing or Warhammer. Two of the three did not have a single title that would be considered a war game.

The other 2 stores – one in Bowling Green, KY, and another one in Nashville, TN – did have historical games in stock. Both of them have areas for open gaming. In both of them the owners confirmed that at least some of the gaming is historical. The guy in Nashville said he had at one time WoW/WoG in the store, but there wasn’t enough interest in it to keep carrying it. The guy in Bowling Green said that people had played it, but lost interest. He also said that he couldn’t get adequate stock.

The store I visited tonight on the way home was Hard Knox in Elizabethtown, KY – about 45 minutes south of Louisville. A large game store in a mall. I asked the owner if they had any Wings of Glory and he said “We used to carry it, but people lost interest in it, so we clearanced out what we had and don’t carry it any more. If you want to special order any I might be able to get them for you.” I then asked him if he had trouble getting it in stock and said that he could never get adequate stock. I then asked him if he had problems with his distributor, and he said yes. He pointed to some Star Wars: Destiny and said he can’t get it in stock and when he does get an order it is always for far less than what he ordered.

Store owners have all said players lost interest in the game. My question: does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling – or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?

My travels have covered seven stores, including the main game stores in two large cities (Nashville and Louisville). Of the four that carry or used to carry WoW/WoG, only one – the one here in Louisville – even attempts to stock it any longer, and he openly says he can’t get restock. Note that these stores represent the only outlets I’m aware of in a fairly good-sized geographic area where you would theoretically be able to buy WoG – and they all are telling basically the same story – that they can’t get the product in stock.

I’ll repeat what I said earlier – I think the evidence is clear that distribution of the game is a bigger – much bigger - problem than Ares thinks it is.

[Xen]

So, it is my belief that the stock they would be talking about struggling to get in would be starter sets. There has been large gaps in availability of starter sets. There was nothing the distributors could do about that. I also believe Ares is working hard to rectify that issue.

Thankfully they are all back available now thanks to the Battle of Britain release, and reprints of Duel Packs and Rules & Accessories packs.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Store owners have all said players lost interest in the game. My question: does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling – or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?


From bitter experience it is definitely the lack of miniatures that dampens player interest, not the other way around. Stores need to stock reasonable quantities of different types to keep players coming back.

[milcoll73]

Store owners have all said players lost interest in the game. My question: does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling – or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?




i can answer that one anecdotally at least. when the flgs 1st opened (late 2013 early 2014), there was small core of maybe 4-5 players besides myself that were interested in wog and buying at least a few minis. after their initial interest in minis was satiated during interim between the long waits between releases of new minis, i saw the majoritys interest for the game wane slowly and them move on to other games. it was, frankly, quite frustrating to watch.

keeping stock in hasnt been an issue, but thats mostly because demand has been small.

as of late, i seem to have gotten another small group interested in the game so maybe, just maybe interest will pick up. however, one of the new group ordered a staaken that, for some reason not accounted for, wasnt shipped with the latest order from the alliance distributor. staakens are still shown in stock from them, and no explanation was given, the staaken ordered simply wasnt included with the order. all other wog product was included in the order, just not the staaken.

[Xen]

That sucks. Must have been so deflating to not receive the centrepiece!

So in Australia, with the new Battle of Britain release and Duel packs being readily available, I am noticing a few pockets of growth that are quite passionate. Key to these though is not just the availability of stock, its that there is a passionate local adding 'story' through scenarios and amazing terrain.

I think story is the sweet spot of gaming. Video gaming understands this. Wings of Glory assumes the gamer will apply story to what they make. And in the cases where that happens, the game gets huge interest.

If Ares can bring out a campaign pack, that adds 'story' to Wings of Glory, while timing that with heaps of starter sets also being in stock, this game will have another wave of growth.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Information gleaned from the UK leans towards the bigger retail companies (Amazon in particular) block bulk buying items and whatever is left is distributed to smaller game shops carrying stock, even if their orders were in first (There is one sole UK distrubuter for all orders). This may be the reason elsewhere.

Club wise I found that out of 12 who were playing the game on a regular basis all the aircraft were owned by 3 members, myself included. Others were happy to play with our extensive collections and although they like playing were not committed enough to buy into it.

I have offered to put on games at my LFGS but there was no interest from customers to play in the gaming area and the shop was open 4 nights and weekends for gaming.

[Bobsalt]

Store owners have all said players lost interest in the game. My question: does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling – or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?[QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Carl_Brisgamer;456166]From bitter experience it is definitely the lack of miniatures that dampens player interest, not the other way around. Stores need to stock reasonable quantities of different types to keep players coming back.
That was actually a rhetorical question.  I think we all know that in situations like this the lack of product is what causes lack of interest, not the other way around. As to carrying reasonable quantities – well, when we are all coming back with the same story – that stores tell us they can’t get the product – I think that tells us where the problem lies.


i can answer that one anecdotally at least. when the flgs 1st opened (late 2013 early 2014), there was small core of maybe 4-5 players besides myself that were interested in wog and buying at least a few minis. after their initial interest in minis was satiated during interim between the long waits between releases of new minis, i saw the majoritys interest for the game wane slowly and them move on to other games. it was, frankly, quite frustrating to watch.
You make a great point here that is often overlooked about keeping a pipeline of new product, and I’ll answer your anecdote with another.  Back when the Axis & Allies naval game came out, the players here went CRAZY for it. The store kept ordering them and as soon as they came in – boom – they were gone. Players were placing orders by the case. One guy set up a campaign for them and soon there were a bunch of guys playing it every weekend at the store. Seeing this, the owner placed a huge order for the second set. Well, when the second set came out – nothing. Eventually he wound up putting them on clearance to get rid of them.

What happened?

Well, there was apparently a delay in the release of the second set, so there was a long period where there were no new ships coming out. Now, I don’t want to get into the myriad of mistakes that Wizards of the Coast made with their Axis & Allies lines (one day I may be using this as a case study of how to take a brilliant idea and fail if I go back to teaching), but the bottom line is that there was a long period of time where no new product was coming out. This allowed the game to get stale. There were a lot of holes in the various navies, and since the ships were at an odd scale there was no way to use 3rd party miniatures to fill in the gaps. By the time the next set of ships came out everybody had moved on to something else.

Now, contrast that experience with another system – Flames of War. The people here have been playing this for at least 10 years, maybe longer. FoW has a completely different view – they are constantly releasing new product. It may be a small thing here or there, but the point is there is never a long period of time where nothing is coming out. Now, I don’t care for their rules, but they produce good quality miniatures, and with new stuff coming out consistently the players never see the game as getting stale. Now, they may stop playing for a while, but they never stop playing the game entirely and put all their stuff on eBay (which they did with the A&A naval game). In fact, the last time I was at the store here in Louisville about three weeks ago there were four guys in the process of setting up a FoW session.

Ares is – in my opinion – really missing the boat here. They should be releasing something like the BoB pack at least once a year, with additional plane to support that release. As an example, if I were calling the shots (hey, I can dream), I’d do something like this:

Do something like a Desert War pack in the spring. Put 2 Hurricanes and Me-109s in it, painted up in desert colors. Have repaints of current aircraft, like the He-111 and Stuka in desert colors come out at the same time. This way you can use the same molds to produce the planes, making them cheaper to produce. 3 months later come out with a couple of new planes to supplement the pack – maybe a pink/tan P-40 and an Italian fighter. For the fall, maybe a Ju-88 and a Blenheim. Then for Christmas, maybe do a limited print run of the B-24 Lady Be Good (look it up for an interesting story) or something like that.

The next year, make the theme the eastern front (or whatever) and do the same sort of thing. There are enough aircraft from the war to go for years. Plus, you can reissue the same aircraft as repaints, and I’m sure a lot of folks would buy them rather than have to paint their own. No matter what, I’d have something unique come out every year for Christmas.

To borrow a quote – “if you build it, they will come.”

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

If Ares looked on this site and at all the AAR's published for both WGF & WGS, how many non-Ares planes are used because a. There is a limited supply or b. That particular model is not made (yet), and how many times members have asked for and we just got in the way of the new BoB and squadron packs, this is the way they should go. A new theatre each year with possibly 1 or 2 extra models to flesh out last years theatre release. (Obviously the later is for WGS) for WGF it could be a year release, ie 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918 etc. (I have generalised heavily here).

The 1 or 2 extra's for the precedig year could be the bombers, twin engined, 4 engined etc.

People would then know what to roughly expect and would, in my OHO, keep the game alive.

Neil

[Never Miss]

There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered.


That's simply not true. I just recently had to contact Ares because I purchased a Landers P-51 and it was missing the flight base and plane card, and the seller was unwilling/unable to help. At first the CS rep indicated they could replace the components no problem, but I got a follow up email today indicating that they looked into it and don't have any stock.

Oddly, they said I should contact them again in a month. Not sure what good that would do, I assume the rep was just confused from dealing with other product lines that Ares actually supports with things like reprints.

[flash]

Maybe it was true at time of writing Ryan, and maybe the rep is not located at the warehouse and has to get the models in stock where they are - try them again in a month, you have little to lose & something to gain.

[Never Miss]

To be clear, I'm not accusing Rob of intentionally lying. I think he believed what he said, just like the rep believed she could get me replacement parts when she first responded. But her second reply included the email chain where the warehouse flat told her they had no stock. I'll admit it is possible that the status changed in the roughly 1 1/2 months since Rob's post, but if so where did that stock go? Every WoG release that I've been witness to has gone the same way, models are released, stores get stock, that stock gets sold, products go out of stock and never get restocked. I've never seen any sign that anything ever gets reprinted or that there is more product available to be had after the initial distribution.

Regardless, it makes Ares look disorganized and pretty amateurish when a CS rep promises a customer that they are going to provide a replacement and send it out immediately only to then turn around a week later and say that they don't have the product after all. Wouldn't you check that first before you go making promises to a customer? And if they actually believe that the situation is going to change in a month why not just say that there is going to be a slight delay but they will send the replacements as soon as possible? They know that I need the parts, why put the onus back on me with a vague "call us next month"? Why is it my job to guess if/when they are going to have stock again? I realize that the majority here view Ares through some heavily rose-tinted glasses but I have to say I wasn't impressed with how they handled my issue.

[flash]

That's a pity then, maybe someone here will be able to assist, there are a few chaps that re-base/re-card their models who might be able to help you out with their spares, put a thread in the wanted section, you never know.

[milcoll73]

That's simply not true. I just recently had to contact Ares because I purchased a Landers P-51 and it was missing the flight base and plane card, and the seller was unwilling/unable to help. At first the CS rep indicated they could replace the components no problem, but I got a follow up email today indicating that they looked into it and don't have any stock.

Oddly, they said I should contact them again in a month. Not sure what good that would do, I assume the rep was just confused from dealing with other product lines that Ares actually supports with things like reprints.





if you need it ive got some litko bases that i adapted to take wog pegs. youre welcome to one if you need it.

[Never Miss]

Thanks for the offer Phillip, it's not actually much of an issue for gameplay because I can sub in a base from one of my other P-51's and even the card too if I want. I was was just building a flight of checker nose Mustangs because it's one of my favorite liveries. I'm attempting to pursue it further with the retailer, but none of that is really relevant to this thread.

Back to the topic at hand, I've never seen availability as a major issue, at least not in the sense of distribution and the supply chain. The larger problem is that there are a finite number of any given plane and Ares hasn't really shown an interest in reprinting even the most popular planes. It was bad enough that it took until series 5 to get a plane like the P-51, but it's going to be even worse once they are all finally sold out. What do you think happens when a potential new player sees the game being played and asks where they can get a cool Flying Tigers P-40 or Red Tail P-51 of their own and you have to tell them they are sold out with a snowball's chance in he!! of ever seeing a reprint?

The other major sin has been the lack of starter sets, either one that gets continually reprinted or several themed revolving ones would be fine, but people need to be able to buy one single box that has everything they need to get started. Throw in the anemic trickle of new releases as the icing on top and its not hard to see why this game doesn't really gain any traction. The BoB stuff provided the best opportunity in years to serve as a jump start, but I'm afraid it's been almost completely squandered by a lack of additional new content in the pipeline.

[Dawn Patrol]

Other then here I order from Miniature Market. You can see that the popular planes are the first to go but they have others of the same plane but limited in numbers. They still have old WoW planes, D-520 and VAl. I understand that the D-520 is not a big seller.

Just bought four D-520 from MM...checking....five left. In a Battle of France campaign using much the same planes as Battle of Britain, I would figure interest in these would go up. A good overlap of minis, plus makes buying some of the Fiat 42s a little more justifiable in usage.

An Ares representative mentioned to me that they are sold out of Heinkels, so whatever is left in the distribution network is it for availability. One would hope they could break out of their usual reprint cycle to manufacturer some more of these to support the Battle of Britain release, or maybe have a Juunkers 88 or Dornier 17 in the next wave.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

An Ares representative mentioned to me that they are sold out of Heinkels, so whatever is left in the distribution network is it for availability. One would hope they could break out of their usual reprint cycle to manufacturer some more of these to support the Battle of Britain release, or maybe have a Juunkers 88 or Dornier 17 in the next wave.

As a short term fix a Heinkel reprint would probably be quicker off the mark. I really hope Ares has plans to release more WGS bomber types in the near future, otherwise their lack of availability will be a major stumbling block to growing the game, particularly for campaign play which in my neck of the woods has had a resurgence as the preferred mode of play.

[Sagrilarus]

As a short term fix a Heinkel reprint would probably be quicker off the mark. I really hope Ares has plans to release more WGS bomber types in the near future, otherwise their lack of availability will be a major stumbling block to growing the game, particularly for campaign play which in my neck of the woods has had a resurgence as the preferred mode of play.

It seems to me that the number of Battle of Britain boxes sold will dictate whether they press for the reprint of the Heinkel soon. The copies at my local store haven't moved so that may not be the case.

[Xen]

Regardless, it makes Ares look disorganized and pretty amateurish when a CS rep promises a customer that they are going to provide a replacement and send it out immediately only to then turn around a week later and say that they don't have the product after all.

Have you clarified if they were going to send an entire Landers mini for you, or just the missing base? its normal for distributors to have a selection of 'damaged stock' on hand for this very purpose, to send you just the base rather than a whole mini. It may well be that this is all they are out of, and they had not considered sending you an entire replacement plane. I am fairly certain that Landers is 100% still available. I bought a bunch from Ares recently. You may want to try asking for this? If they don't, send me a message I might be able to help.

For the record, Ares HAS reprinted some top sellers immediately before. Duel Packs, Gotha's and Caproni's all got immediate reprints. The P40's and Heinkel sure would be welcome, but they just don't sell anywhere near as much as WW1 stuff, so I can imagine from Ares perspective they need to make some hard decisions here and there. Last thing they want is to reprint stock and have only 1 quarter of it sell. The reprinted Gothas and Caproni's sold out super fast too.

[Sagrilarus]

Last thing they want is to reprint stock and have only 1 quarter of it sell. The reprinted Gothas and Caproni's sold out super fast too.

This is what Pre-Pub systems are for. Straight up? I think Wings of Glory P500s would fill pretty doggone quickly. This stuff is more like ASL than it is like X-Wing, with a small but very focused following that more or less punches the Buy button when it appears.

[Tokhuah]

With many of the planes impossible to get and only one release per year none of the local retailers are willing to carry WGS. Special orders, yes. Shelf space, no. This is not likely to change given the current trend.

I wonder, if a retailer wants more Thunderbolts (for example) can they pick which one's they want or do they need to order them in complete sets of three?

[Carl_Brisgamer]

With many of the planes impossible to get and only one release per year none of the local retailers are willing to carry WGS. Special orders, yes. Shelf space, no. This is not likely to change given the current trend.

It's a chicken and egg problem Scott. My FLGS only had token WGS stock for the last three years and sold one or two aircraft here and there. Since Battle of Britain came out and we now have a reliable Australian distributor (Rivalsky) he has been stocking large numbers of aircraft - and they have been selling like hotcakes.

IMHO the three pillars of success are public play, stock on the shelves and reliable distribution. We players can help with the first part and second parts, making games accessible to new and existing players and convincing store owners the system is worth their time and money. It is up to Ares to ensure continuity of production (new and reprints) and distribution. If any of those pillars are missing the game won't win and hold market share.

[Bobsalt]

With many of the planes impossible to get and only one release per year none of the local retailers are willing to carry WGS. Special orders, yes. Shelf space, no. This is not likely to change given the current trend.

I wonder, if a retailer wants more Thunderbolts (for example) can they pick which one's they want or do they need to order them in complete sets of three?
I can tell you from the results of my admittedly informal questioning of game store owners (earlier in this thread) they much prefer to stock their shelves with stuff that they can reliably be sure they will be able to restock if/when it sells. Why give shelf space to something you may or may not be able to restock when there is plenty of other things out there that you know will sell and you can restock?

They also want fresh, new product on their shelves. Other games of this type usually have something in the pipeline to look forward to. Going too long without anything new will cause players to lose interest – particularly if stores won’t (or can’t) stock the stuff that has been released. If a player walks in and they see the same WoG planes that have been sitting there for months (or any at all) – yawn. But 3 or 4 pegs of new Star Wars X-Wing? Face it – games that are steadily releasing new product are the ones that players are going to be enthused about.


This is what Pre-Pub systems are for. Straight up? I think Wings of Glory P500s would fill pretty doggone quickly. This stuff is more like ASL than it is like X-Wing, with a small but very focused following that more or less punches the Buy button when it appears.
I don’t know what kind of numbers they would have to get in pledges to make it worth their while to do reprints. I suspect a lot more than 500. Still, I like your idea. I’m not sure if they would ever go this route, but if they did I’m in. My first pledge would be for around 20-25 planes. Of course, then you’re back to that issue where they don’t sell directly to the consumer.


It seems to me that the number of Battle of Britain boxes sold will dictate whether they press for the reprint of the Heinkel soon. The copies at my local store haven't moved so that may not be the case.
Given what I’ve seen, and what I’ve read on here so far, I don’t think sales of the BoB starter sets are really much of an indicator of anything. The store here in Louisville sold all of their BoB sets right away and weren’t able to get them (or anything else) back in stock. Another store I was in just this past week in Owensboro, KY had a set, and the owner told me it had been there for “months.” The set will sell where the game is popular. If the game isn’t popular – and especially if there isn’t any inventory of single-plane packs to back up the starter sets – the starter set won’t sell. That brings us back to the rhetorical question I asked earlier of which comes first – does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling – or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?


Back to the topic at hand, I've never seen availability as a major issue, at least not in the sense of distribution and the supply chain. The larger problem is that there are a finite number of any given plane and Ares hasn't really shown an interest in reprinting even the most popular planes. It was bad enough that it took until series 5 to get a plane like the P-51, but it's going to be even worse once they are all finally sold out. What do you think happens when a potential new player sees the game being played and asks where they can get a cool Flying Tigers P-40 or Red Tail P-51 of their own and you have to tell them they are sold out with a snowball's chance in he!! of ever seeing a reprint?

The other major sin has been the lack of starter sets, either one that gets continually reprinted or several themed revolving ones would be fine, but people need to be able to buy one single box that has everything they need to get started. Throw in the anemic trickle of new releases as the icing on top and its not hard to see why this game doesn't really gain any traction. The BoB stuff provided the best opportunity in years to serve as a jump start, but I'm afraid it's been almost completely squandered by a lack of additional new content in the pipeline.
You make some great points here.

With the release of “Dunkirk” they had an opportunity to make a really big splash with the game. With the film being so successful that period of history was more in the forefront of people’s minds. They should have been ready to capitalize upon it. As a game manufacturer, how often are you going to have a major motion picture come out that plays right into a game you’re already producing? They should have had not just BoB starter sets out, but should have put together pre-packaged BoB cases – say 24 a]single-plane packs that were all part of the BoB theme. Have a 3 or 4 scenario campaign based on the evac. Instead – missed opportunities.

Although I personally HAVE seen major issues with the supply chain, it can’t be denied that the larger overall problem is that Ares isn’t releasing new stuff or reissuing stuff that’s no longer available. To borrow from your example, there are certain aircraft that are iconic in people’s minds when they think of WWII. Among them would be the P-40. To illustrate to folks outside of the U.S. – for an American who wants to play this game, not having a P-40 readily available would be almost like being from the UK and there not being a Spitfire (or at least a Hurricane) available. The situation with the P-51 isn’t as bad, although the now-unavailable Ellington P-51 is the most striking looking of the three available. The problem is – what happens when the other two P-51s slowly disappear and there isn’t a reprint? A potential new player in the U.S. not being able to get a P-40 is bad. Not being able to get a P-51 would virtually guarantee he isn’t going to get into the game.

As to starter sets – I don’t think Ares has grasped how important something like these are. The importance of being able to pick up a box with 4 aircraft ready to go, with everything you need to play the game out of the box, can’t be overstated, and is probably the most important thing of all. Coming in right behind it in importance would be that there be plentiful stock sitting right on the shelf next to the starter sets. For BoB, there should be Stukas, Me-110s, Hurricanes, Lancasters, - and yes, He111s – next to every BoB starter set. That’s how you grow your game.

Imagine the potential buyer pulling a BoB starter off the shelf and asking if there’s anything else to go with it and being told by the store that they don’t get restock, probably can’t get what he wants, even as a special order, that several items are completely sold out, you might be able to find some stuff online if they’re still available, and you’ll find that the time between new releases is very long. At this point is that guy still going to buy that starter set?

I don’t have to imagine because this is a summary of my experience since I played the game at Origins three months ago. In my first game I discovered that this is a really good system – easy to learn, and fun to play. And I really do enjoy it. However, I will be candid. If I had known then what I know now I would not have sat down for my first game and would have just walked past the table.

I want to get deep into this game. I really do. But the game won’t let me.


As a short term fix a Heinkel reprint would probably be quicker off the mark. I really hope Ares has plans to release more WGS bomber types in the near future, otherwise their lack of availability will be a major stumbling block to growing the game, particularly for campaign play which in my neck of the woods has had a resurgence as the preferred mode of play.
I think Ares is really, really off the mark here. In any other business, if you have a line of products and one far and away out-sells the others to the point of selling out, what do you do? You make more of them, of course.

If I understand this properly, the planes are made out of pieces, each of which is made from a mold. They are then assembled. Next, the planes are painted the color of the underside of the plane. From there, the top and side surfaces are a sort of decal that is applied – I guess it’s like the wraps they make for cars for advertising?

If this is all correct, it really opens up opportunity for Ares.

Let’s say your plan is to make 10,000 complete units – say, He-111s in splinter camouflage. What you should do is make enough components to complete 20,000. Finish and ship out your original 10,000 units. Then, have your artists use the decal template to make a different scheme – say, the desert tan from 1942-43. You make these and then release them a year (or six months) later. Would people who had already bought a couple of the splinter camouflage planes shell out to buy two more in the desert scheme a year later? You tell me. I know I would. The ability to repeat this with different models of aircraft is limited only to what was done historically – in other words, you’d start to run out of options in around 20 or 30 years. Doing something like this should lower the production costs, since you’re ordering or manufacturing larger quantities of all of the pieces. You also give the impression of releasing new product and making the game seem fresh – when all you’re doing is releasing repaints of what’s already been released.


If Ares looked on this site and at all the AAR's published for both WGF & WGS, how many non-Ares planes are used because a. There is a limited supply or b. That particular model is not made (yet), and how many times members have asked for and we just got in the way of the new BoB and squadron packs, this is the way they should go. A new theatre each year with possibly 1 or 2 extra models to flesh out last years theatre release. (Obviously the later is for WGS) for WGF it could be a year release, ie 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918 etc. (I have generalised heavily here).

The 1 or 2 extra's for the precedig year could be the bombers, twin engined, 4 engined etc.

People would then know what to roughly expect and would, in my OHO, keep the game alive.

Neil
The use of so much unofficial product in the game tells me several things.

First, that the game system is solid, and, among those already playing it – popular. After all, no one goes to the trouble of making stuff for a game system that’s not any good or that no one plays. With WoG, there is virtually a cottage industry producing various items for the game. Resin cast planes, decals, bases, replacements for propellers, tokens, markers, etc. – I’ve been in gaming most of my life and I have never seen a game that has this quantity of fan-produced materials to support it. In fact, it’s reached a point where I would say there’s a legitimate question of whether the third-party products are supporting the game, or if the official products are supporting a larger cottage industry.

Second, the fact that so many basic aircraft of WWII are only available third-party shows that Ares has done a poor job of expanding their line. My understanding of the history of the game is a little murky, but I think the game has been in its present iteration since 2012. If that’s correct, the game has been out for right at 5 years in its present iteration. And after that 5 years there are still a lot of holes in the catalog of even basic plane types. Why, after 5 years, is there no Sturmovik? Or Mosquito? Why no bombers for Japan, Italy, or Soviets? You get the idea. I understand you can’t release every plane – I personally would love the planes from the late 30s, like the Fairey Battle or the P-36, and you can’t release everything at once – but for there to be a lack of so many basic aircraft types after 5 years is beyond me. I also question some of their decisions on what to release. As an example, for the rumored next set, why release a Me-410, which wasn’t all that common (a little over a thousand built) instead of the ubiquitous Ju-88 (over 15,000 built)?

Third, the fact that there is so much third-party stuff out there makes me wonder if it hurts the long-term health of the game. By that I mean this – if you already have unofficial versions of a plane, are you going to buy official ones when they come out? Speaking for me, unless the official release is very different than what I have, I won’t. Let’s say I have 4 Ju-88s (which I do, waiting to be painted). I plan to paint all of them in European colors. If Ares then releases a Ju-88 with the same or similar paint scheme, I’m not going to be interested. I won’t be buying any F4Fs or Dauntlesses for the same reason. I already have 4 of each from Merit. Once they are painted up, I’m not going to want or need official ones that are in a similar paint job. This represents potential lost sales to Ares.

I must say that I have serious doubts about the future health of this game.

[milcoll73]

"However, I will be candid. If I had known then what I know now I would not have sat down for my first game and would have just walked past the table.

I want to get deep into this game. I really do. But the game won’t let me."


bob im glad you did and got into the game (i was at origins as well so we probably chewed some of the same sky).

it is possible to get deep into the game (im living proof) despite the fact that ares doesnt make it easy. you have to vigilant, and being lucky doesnt hurt as well. its frustrating, but it makes "the hunt" all the more satisfying.

[Ken at Sunrise]

I haven't gotten into the WWII version of WoG yet so pardon my thoughts. Nothing is really perfect.

I do think the lack of supply is really the key factor that hurts this game, WWI or WWII, the most. You may get into it but quickly find that it is hard to expand you collection. The simple truth is that if it isn't available it can't sell, no sales no new players.

The next is I see very little promotion of the game. When I do read about games at the conventions it is often played with planes that are either custom or unavailable. New player really can't get the planes they just fell in love with. I got into X-Wing because I walked into a game store and saw someone with a Millennium Falcon. I hadn't played the game but I was sold on it already. Had I been told the reprint was years away or this was an unavailable custom product I would have walked away.

X-Wing has a good selection of ships and many of there MSRP is actually higher than WoG. But they are usually available. Yet X-Wing suffers from being a very complex gaming system that is limiting new people from really buying in and pushing older players out. WoG, please don't get the same way X-Wing did!

I don't think we need a constant flow of new shineys. I won't disagree that having new waves does help, as long as they are not X-Wing is type. But we don't need them every quarter either. Having said that it would be very helpful if Ares announced the next release and schedule. It would show that Ares is interested in the game too. Right now, it does feel like a back burner project.

I don't have the answers, but I do know that both promotion and availability are requirements for a game.

[Xen]

I agree promo could be improved for sure. Something focussing on whats 'in the works' thats official.

I would also love some way to get some posters to give to retail stores to hang near their stock as well, some banners or things like that.

[Tokhuah]

Even knowing definitively what is up next would be helpful. Will it be BoB bombers or War in the Pacific? Has the "wave" of four planes releases been scrapped for something more thematic? Ares should look hard at what Warlord Games does with Bolt Action for some clues on how to promote and sustain a WWII game. There are some great promotional and thematic components to the game that can be implemented, even if greatly scaled back.

One element that needs immediate attention is to make the Scenario books match product availability. The BoB box came with a great scenario book but many of the planes in it are hard to get and/or not available in stores. You simply cannot release printed content and follow up with a soft announcement that maybe a year later there will be a release of some bombers that will make more of the scenarios viable. If Ares wants to pull back from the model business and take an Osprey approach to providing only the source materials and possibly the decks to support the miniatures then fine, make the change. The lack of any communication is like blacking out at 10,000 feet...

Hey, look I just checked out the Ares website and found out there are new planes. Seriously, they are indicated as "NEW": Special Packs (http://www.aresgames.eu/games/ww2-wings-of-glory-line/ww2-wings-of-glory-special-packs). There is even more issues for a new interested player when they click on the Airplane Packs link. They will see Pacific theater planes but no Zero or Wildcat?!? Did someone miss something? The new customer may also need help finding the link for the iconic Dauntless because all they will see are one's with fancy paint jobs and a French version.

The Wings of Glory franchise has a great design (designer) the components are excellent and this is the best online community I have been a part of. I also really like the development of the point system as this is an altitude peg up if Ares ever wants to attract competitive gamers. Most importantly, WGS is fun to play. Organizationally Ares needs to step up!

[Bobsalt]

I agree promo could be improved for sure. Something focussing on whats 'in the works' thats official.

I would also love some way to get some posters to give to retail stores to hang near their stock as well, some banners or things like that.
I don’t like to be the guy that tells someone that “this won’t work.” But… “this won’t work.”

Don’t get me wrong – having PoP materials such as posters is a good idea. The problem is that before you start thinking about the issue of sending out PoP materials you first have to get stores to carry the product. Whether it’s due to poor distribution or lack of product released, the bottom line is that most stores do not carry this product. Before getting into things like merchandising materials Ares would have to prove to stores that they are committed to the line and will take the necessary steps to make sure that there are no bottlenecks in the pipeline. This is mission one. Sending out PoP materials – no matter how well they are done – is at this point a waste of money that could be used on other things more important.

[Xen]

You've missed a key part of the perspective I'm coming from :)
I'm a distributor in Australia, I have retail stores who have invested in the game and now want to improve sales, so promo material for them to hang up around the store, tournament kits they can use to drive sales through peoples competitive natures, all this is the kind of stuff they are asking for.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

On this subject - Please know that we are welcome to support stores with free Battle of Britain demo kits. If you have a FLGS in your area interested in presenting/promoting the game, he can contact us at events@aresgames.eu to request one.

Back at the end of July Roberto posted about BoB Demo kits. Get your FLGS to contact the email address and order a kit for promotional purposes.

[Xen]

Oh wow I never knew about this, although I think I saw something shared on facebook that looked like it was USA specific?

[OldGuy59]

Oh wow I never knew about this, although I think I saw something shared on facebook that looked like it was USA specific?

The North American Event Rep is willing to provide Battle of Britain Starter Sets for demo sessions in Cananda, too. I was supposed to get one for the latest con here on Vancouver Island, but a spam filter cut off the comm channel, and I didn't catch it in time. But, future demos could have them. Contact Ares and ask. The worst they could say is 'no', but I suspect they want to assist with getting the word out, if people are willing to demo the game.

Also, I produce my own promo material, such as poster or handouts for the game. It would be nice if Ares did Con promo packs of Ace Skill cards, but until they do, I make them.

Posters to announce specific games or events can be borrowed from this album: OldGuy59's Recruiting Posters Album (https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=3481) (example usage in the album, if you look around)

Or make your own posters?

Additionally, I produce actual skill cards for players to use during games, and to take away afterward, so they can use them if they take up the game (only the most recent airplane packs have skill cards).

Example:
232869

OldGuy59's Convention Ace Cards Album (https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=3867)

For M-Con 2017, I produced the above card, as well as Bullet Checker (Central Powers and Entente versions), Itchy Trigger Finger (CP & E), and Perfect Aim (E). For people who win prizes like the Duel Pack, they actually try to scrounge the Ace Skill cards from other non-winners to use with their prizes.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Oh wow I never knew about this, although I think I saw something shared on facebook that looked like it was USA specific?

Couldn't hurt to enquire.

[Bobsalt]

You've missed a key part of the perspective I'm coming from :)
I'm a distributor in Australia, I have retail stores who have invested in the game and now want to improve sales, so promo material for them to hang up around the store, tournament kits they can use to drive sales through peoples competitive natures, all this is the kind of stuff they are asking for.
Well, you have me there! I guess I am guilty of Ameri-centric thinking.

From reading on here I do know that it seems WoG is much more popular in Australia than it is in most of the U.S. Do you have any thoughts as to why?