Shooting into furballs

[Oberst Hajj]

In the current campaign my group is playing in, we do not use the altitude rules. As such, we do not do collisions either. This tends to lead to a lot of planes overlapping each other. In an attempt to keep the games simple and fast paste (we have up to 14 planes in the air at a time on two tables), our current rule is that no one can shoot in to or out of planes from both sides that have overlapping bases. If two enemy planes are overlapping, you can shoot into it.

One of the players has suggested that we add a new Ace skill called "Steady Aim". This skill would allow...

Steady Aim I
Active
The pilot can shoot into a furball were there are both friendly and enemy planes overlapping.

Steady Aim II
Active
The pilot can shoot into and out of a furball were there are both friendly and enemy planes overlapping.

Any thoughts on this skill?

[Kiwi_Ace]

In the current campaign my group is playing in, we do not use the altitude rules. As such, we do not do collisions either. This tends to lead to a lot of planes overlapping each other. In an attempt to keep the games simple and fast paste (we have up to 14 planes in the air at a time on two tables), our current rule is that no one can shoot in to or out of planes from both sides that have overlapping bases. If two enemy planes are overlapping, you can shoot into it.

One of the players has suggested that we add a new Ace skill called "Steady Aim". This skill would allow...

Steady Aim I
Active
The pilot can shoot into a furball were there are both friendly and enemy planes overlapping.

Steady Aim II
Active
The pilot can shoot into and out of a furball were there are both friendly and enemy planes overlapping.

Any thoughts on this skill?


i like it. we dont use altitude rules either but we do have collision damage for overlapping plane bases. Even friendly planes that collide cause 1 A dmg card of damage.
much like yourself we play u cant shoot out of a collission but as long as you have line of site on other planes you can shoot into a collission no problem.
i like your steady aim ace ability, it might even be a little low on power and need beefing up somehow... not sure maybe let the ace fire on balloons he is colliding with?

[Oberst Hajj]

If you see some of our games, you would not think it a little low on power! lol An Ace with this skill would be able to shoot about 20% more often! I've made some changes to how balloons work and are attacked in KotA. Our group should be testing them out pretty soon.

[Wraith]

I actually like this ability, especially knowing the kind of fights that Keith is talking about.

-Josh

[Oberst Hajj]

Good to see you on the site Josh. I think these would be good additions, my only concern is adding in to many Ace skills.

[Wraith]

I can understand what too many ace skills can do, but I really do think that at least this one should be added as it is truely an 'ace' ability, especially for the games played both at the Haven and here at USAFA.

-Josh

[Kiwi_Ace]

in a 3 tier ace system the skill might look like this...

Steady Aim I
The pilot can shoot into a furball were there are both friendly and enemy planes overlapping.

Steady Aim II
The pilot can shoot into and out of a furball were there are both friendly and enemy planes overlapping.

Steady Aim III
The pilot can shoot into and out of a furball were there are both friendly and enemy planes overlapping. Ignore all collision damage if this pilots plane is the one that is overlapping.

[Madballs]

Actually I'd reverse the order. Make Tier I shoot out and Tier II shoot in. As a pilot I'd be more willing to shoot out of an air dance at an enemy then into an air dance where I might hit an ally easier.

And why is it active instead of passive?

[Oberst Hajj]

I agree John, they should be reversed. As for why it is an active skill, I was thinking the pilot would have his hands full shooting and dodging the other plane... or in the case of shooting in to it... he would be taking very careful aim. Either way, he would not really be able to do much else "Ace" wise.

[Oberst Hajj]

I decided to remove the Toughness skills and replace them with these Steady Aim skills. One of the concerns I have with the tiered Ace skills is Aces "running away" form newer pilots and always shooting them down. I think adding an Ace skill that just helps the Aces stay alive longer (Toughness) just adds to that.

[CappyTom]

What do you guys and gals think of when shooting into the furballs that your target gets a hit from what ever damage deck your plane uses and if any friends could get hit they get a b-damage as well. It makes you think twice about shooting into the mix. Any thoughts or am I off base on this subject?

Tom

[Horse4261]

What do you guys and gals think of when shooting into the furballs that your target gets a hit from what ever damage deck your plane uses and if any friends could get hit they get a b-damage as well. It makes you think twice about shooting into the mix. Any thoughts or am I off base on this subject?

Tom

Personally I would have to say reduce the damage type only if you scored real points to your primary target. Example, you draw a double 0 with an A deck at close range you have in fact completely missed your target, but the secondary (in close range) would then have both drawn on them. Same as if scoring a hit and a miss, then only one draw on the secondary at close range.
I hope that made sense..

[aarondpjames]

What do you guys and gals think of when shooting into the furballs that your target gets a hit from what ever damage deck your plane uses and if any friends could get hit they get a b-damage as well. It makes you think twice about shooting into the mix. Any thoughts or am I off base on this subject?

Tom

This is a good idea, especialy when you combine it with Horse4261 idea of


you draw a double 0 with an A deck at close range you have in fact completely missed your target, but the secondary (in close range) would then have both drawn on them

It may not be sporting to shoot into a furball with allied planes in, but it no doubt happened, intentinaly or not.

What my group currently do is "if you colide with another enemy plane, you can shoot at it if its in your firing arc (as you would of been lineing up the shot on the way in) but not out of the collision". So if you colide with and allied plane, you've lucked out as your not going to be partaking in any firing. This is because your a bit preocupied with trying to dodge the other plane you just bumbed into.

We dont currently allow shooting it to furballs as its "Not the sporting thing to do, old chap!" and for the likelyhood of hitting an allied aircraft. If too enemy aircraft colide and you are in range/arc to shoot........then let rip!!!! Combine that with "Horse4261" and "Crappytoms" quotes above, and you've got a really target rich enviroment, if you draw "0's" on one, you may hit the other.

For collision dammage, we use the "C" deck, sometimes its a "0", and others its a "10"!!!! This is mainly to try and avioide deliberate collisions and try and make the players think about there planed moves, as no-one wants to pick up a "10" card!!! (It also add's a bit of a "Russian roulet" element to the game when the "C" cards are drawn!!

[Dunkman]

Hey guys, if you wouldn't mind me popping my two cents worth in here...

If two planes occupy the same space they should run into one another and crash. However if this is too complicated and or too drastic for newer players who are apt to have more crashes than kills thats fine too...

I suppose the justification could simply be that one plane is slightly higher or lower than the next. Fair enough...

This brings up an interesting point however. If the planes are at slightly diffrent altitudes, thus avoidig a crash, albeit they are are not being tracked as such, they should be able to clearly shoot out of the "furball" without anything inerfering with that shot.

So I would say that an Ace skill that allows shooting into close proximity of another plane is a cool and valid rule but shooting out of the scrum should always be allowed.

My group read that rule like 50 times last time we played, and it seems to me it is written in such a way as to say that shooting out is allowed at all times. :rolleyes: Perhaps that is just the way we interpret it...

Perhaps a second Tier could be steady shot that allows aiming or tailing damage even when being disrupted by another players shooting.

[Oberst Hajj]

Duncan, first, welcome to the site! In the basic rules of the game, you are correct. This thread was about how our campaign rules altered that rule for game speed and fluff. We have since added altitude into the games and collisions. I think these two Ace skills are more relevant now, as it allows a pilot to shoot "just before" or "just after" the collision... if they survive that is!

[Grinneth42]

Hmm... so I like the Ace ability... I'm not sure I like the ignore collision damage concept (well, unless I'm the one in the collision...) maybe just halve damage from any collision (though thats a serious annoyance on the 'keeping track of' front)... maybe you just take one point of collision damage? that would allow you to just jump a card over to the +1 damage slot... thats all I've got.
K

[StormforceX]

I don't like the idea of collision damage if altitude rules are not in use, after all there is so much vertical distance that could be between planes. With altitude rules in play though it becomes more likeley. Using C damage sounds a great idea ( I have been using A).
Ace skills are more of a personal taste thing, but the more that I hear of the more I can choose the ones I like. As for the furball, I think pilots af any ability would have their hands full just staying alive so we only allow shooting in if both planes are enemy, no friendly fire allowed and no firing out.

[colneher]

If two planes occupy the same space they should run into one another and crash. However if this is too complicated and or too drastic for newer players who are apt to have more crashes than kills thats fine too...



My thoughts on this are geared around SPATIAL IRREGULARITIES ...

judging by the SHORT nature of the ranges as well as the small heights of the flight bands (which we use), we do allow collsions. the space a plane occupies on the mat is SO LARGE, you could conceiveably stck 5 planes in the same space withough impact. With the looseness of hte rules and movement systems, IMHO forcing collisions (or furballs) with overlap is overcomplicating things ...