RAF S.E.5a's Vs. Fokker D.VII

[rkhlegacy]

I just wrapped up a game with my wife where I flew three S.E.5a's against her three Fokker D.VII's. For obvious reasons, the D.VII has been one of my favorite planes to fly in the past. I thought this would be a great test of the S.E.5a's capabilities.

Altitude for both sides was the same at 6. I started my flight out at a position of disadvantage with the Fokker's approaching from my rear at 5:00. The Fokker's were far enough behind my planes to give me just enough time to turn and face them when the first shots were fired.

Overall, I found the S.E.5a to be a great match for the D.VII's. By the end of the game, all three Fokkers were down with only one of my S.E.5a's getting shot down. Out of my remaining two S.E.'s one was 4 points away from death, while the other had 9 points to go.

I was worried the steep 90 degree right and left turns of the S.E. would put me at a disadvantage but I managed to get into some good positions behind the Fokkers and really pour it on.

I will have to play this one again several times to know for sure how they match up but as of now I'm very impressed with the S.E.5a.

[Goering Ace]

Hi Ryan. Interesting results to your match-up. I would have thought with the D.VII's short straight and short (steep) turns they would have made it difficult for you to stay close, considering the speed of the SE5. Objectively, do you think your wife played the D.VII's to their maximum capabilities or did you see some instances where she possibly overlooked an obvious maneuver that may have escaped trouble? The jury is still out for me on the S.E.5a. I know it's a very good fighter, I just have to decide if it's a great fighter. After seeing that the 90 degree turns are considered steep maneuvers, it takes away some of those great side-slip w/ 90 degree turn combos I use with the Dr.I and the Snipe (can't have back to back steep/stall maneuvers). I may see if I can get my son to fly his two S.E.5's against my two D.VII's so I can get a better feel for how the two stack up.

Thanks for the report!

Scott

P.S. I'm not implying your wife isn't a good player, I just know many times I've finished a mission and looked back on numerous mistakes that I made that changed the tide of the game.

[rkhlegacy]

Hey Scott, there were a few times Allison could have played a different card and caused my S.E.5a to overshoot. Overall I think she used the short straight and short steep turn quite well. Of course there is the "chance" that goes with drawing high damage cards which a player can't control. She took some high damage cards and I caught several 0's so that worked in my favor too.

We will play this matchup several more times to see how things shake out. I'm just really liking the S.E.5a right now.

[Von Pupp]

Yes, the SE5a is the only plane that entered service earlier than the DVII and can match it.
(the Snipe entered service too late)
I found it more than a match for any of my german scouts.
Nice report!

[Goering Ace]

Hey Scott, there were a few times Allison could have played a different card and caused my S.E.5a to overshoot. Overall I think she used the short straight and short steep turn quite well. Of course there is the "chance" that goes with drawing high damage cards which a player can't control. She took some high damage cards and I caught several 0's so that worked in my favor too.

We will play this matchup several more times to see how things shake out. I'm just really liking the S.E.5a right now.

I definitely know about the luck of the draw with those high damage cards. Happens to me all the time!! LOL!! I'd love to hear more about your S.E.5a vs. D.VII match-ups as you complete them. Will you be switching around who flies what in future dogfights? When Hunter and I try this matchup (again) I plan to fly the D.VII's a few times and then fly the S.E.5's a few times. Our first dogfight we only used one of each plane.

Scott

[rkhlegacy]

Yep, we will switch sides over time so we get a good balance.

[Dog of War]

Yep, we will switch sides over time so we get a good balance.

Would be really interested how this next game played out. I have had a game with my friend today at uni, his Fokker DVII and my SE5a. It ended up that we were at the highest altitude (for me it was 14, for him it was 15). Getting the upper hand, he just continuously swooped at me , getting the +1 to his shooting and swooping back up to two altitudes higher (using the same tactic which Bishop talked about in his "Winged Warfare" book, and was only too logical and correct) so I could rarely catch him to shoot back. I still have some difficulty in coming up with a solution to that tactic, my SE5a got really badly shot up in the end and went down in flames (literally).

P.S. he has already gotten 4 kills without dying himself yet from other previous games, another one, and he is an ace. In our campaign that means he will be bale to pick one ace ability of his choice (i.e. one ability for each ace status). So I am really frying my brains as to how to prevent him getting the ace status next game. Any suggestions?

[Flying Helmut]

I've played this match-up a few times, and the Fokker DVII has come out on top every time.

At our first Doncaster event, my "Jasta vs Squadron" game pitted 4 SE5as against 4 Fokker DVIIs, resulting in 3 SE5as going down and the last (Hedeby) fleeing the field, for no losses to the Huns.
See my "Hedeby's Great Escape" thread - here (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?23197-Just-to-get-us-in-the-mood-for-Donnie&highlight=Hedeby%27s+Great+Escape)

[Dog of War]

I've played this match-up a few times, and the Fokker DVII has come out on top every time.

At our first Doncaster event, my "Jasta vs Squadron" game pitted 4 SE5as against 4 Fokker DVIIs, resulting in 3 SE5as going down and the last (Hedeby) fleeing the field, for no losses to the Huns.
See my "Hedeby's Great Escape" thread - here (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?23197-Just-to-get-us-in-the-mood-for-Donnie&highlight=Hedeby%27s+Great+Escape)

But there has got to be method to do something. I would think go down to altitude 6 or 7 and force the Fokker down to there or thereabouts if he wants to fight. I have 1 climb token, so when it swoops to 1 altitude higher than me (say I am altitude 6, he goes swooping down to altitude 7), I would need to "feel" ahead when he would do so and raise a level (I have climb rate of 2 so playing the next climb card automatically put me into the next level band), so that at least we would fight on the same altitude when we are in range. How does that sound?

Dog of War

[gully_raker]

:D I think your idea of making the Fokker come down has merit but you should also use the speed & those sideslips the SE 5a has to your advantage.

[Dog of War]

:D I think your idea of making the Fokker come down has merit but you should also use the speed & those sideslips the SE 5a has to your advantage.

It worked! Thank you for the suggestion gully_raker. The game ended with me getting only 1 wound, while my opponent recieving 10 with engine damage and pilot wounded, in the end conceding. We agreed upon me getting the victory to my score, but his pilot force-landing safely and managing to escape captivity, so his pilot is still in the campaign, just not an ace yet. I kept on guessing his moves most of the time, while planning to counter his moves with mine. I started at altitude 7, he at 13. I climbed to his height quite rapidly (being too aggressive this time), while he descended quite reluctantly, and guessed at what point he was going to do a split-S down, so when I climbed to his altitude, he didn't get enough time to do the move to get one climb token in the process to be able to swoop back up rapidly, leaving me at his level, fighting on equal terms, or me hanging basically on his tail (but not well enough for me to get the "tailing" advantage, I was just in a position from where it was more-or-less predictable what he was going to do). I must admit though, he got the feel for the split-S idea too late in the game, even though I told him of the idea before the game, that he could use it to his advantage. By thus he let me get unto his tail.

The SE5a is a very mobile plane, that's for sure.

One idea I would like to try out for my next game, is the Split-S idea, but with a bluff in mind. After getting at least one shot, I would "imitate" engine failure, i.e. for one or two turns play the stall card, and then when my opponent is convinced that I have engine failure perform the Split-S move when he is least expecting it. How does that sound - would you think I am exploiting a hole in the rules, or would such a move be "correct", in that it would be possible in "reality"? Just asking, since I don't like playing to gaps in the rules.

Dog

[john snelling]

Ryan, you violated rule number one. Always let the wife win. Happy wife, happy life.
Happily married 32 years.

wife :mad: you :eek: then :confused: and :surrender: you and wife :drinks: