Grumman Wildcat weapons

[aikavaras]

In WWII Wings of War the Grumman F4F-3 has a listed short range firepower of B and long range firepower of A. That equals four .30 machine guns in this gaming system. But didn't Wildcats in reality carry fifty cals? So in this game they should have double the firepower: BB for short and B for long range?

Same question can be asked about the F4F-4, It has listed firepower of BA and B as if it was carrying 6 .30 cals but at least Wikipedia says that it carried 6 .50 cals which should give firepower of BBB an BA.

I'd like to hear opinions about this.

[Dom S]

Where are you getting these stats from? The Wildcats *are* BB / B, and BBB / AB....

http://www.gamesparadise.com.au/images/product/deluxebig.jpg

http://pan4.fotovista.com/dev/4/3/03913334/l_03913334.jpg

[aikavaras]

Interesting. I'm getting my stats from the cards that came in the original Wings of War - Dawn of War boxed set. It appears that those old cards list wrong firepowers and they have corrected them on later products.

[Dom S]

Aha, just had a search on the Yahoo group and found this from Andrea back in November '07:



After much discussing, here we are with the errata for "Dawn of War".

Have fun,

Andrea


STONGER PLANES

First of all, due to not so good Italian sources, some planes have
been published weaker than due.

This are the new statistics for the Wildcat/Martlet:
Grummann F4F-3 Wildcat/Martlet III fire 2B / B damage 17
Grummann F4F-4 fire 3B / A+B damage 18
So this is how the cards should look like:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/269321

Reggiane Re.2002 Ariete has been unbderarmed too. Real fire
statistics should be A+B / B
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/269372

So for the general scenario at the last paraghraph of page 4 of
rulebook the Grummann F4F-3 Wildcat/Martlet III (both of which use
the D deck) can be added. The option with weaker planes at the start
of page 5 is now pointless.

First scenario of pag. 19, second of page 20, first of page 21 and
the one at page 22 can be played with two Mitsubishi A6M2 Reisen
instead than the Hayabusas.

Second scenario of pag. 19 can now be played with two Nakajima Ki-43-
IIb Hayabusa at half-ruler distance from the Axis side against a
Grummann F4F-4 Wildcat at half-ruler distance from the Allied side.
The Hawker Hurricane Mk.IIb, the Supermarine Seafire Mk.IIc and the
Grummann F4F-4 Wildcat can replace each onter, also in the 109/2002
version of thìis scenario and also in the second scenario of page 20.

In the first scenario of pag. 20, replace the two Reggiane Re. 2002
with two Nakajima Ki-43-IIb Hayabusa (I know it's unhistorical...).

2nd scenario at pag. 20, variants, becomes: "Alternatively, the Axis
Player takes a Mitsubishi A6M2 Reisen with an ace pilot: He chooses
two skills." (notice that skills become two).

2nd scenario at pag. 21, variant with Wildcat taking pictures,
becomes "Variants: Use a Nakajima Ki-43-IIb Hayabusa and a
Mitsubishi A6M2 Reisen against two Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat/Martlet
III. The plane taking pictures is the Hayabusa."


OTHER ERRATA

pag.6, erase second paragraph: "If a card has only a arrowhead,
don't take into account the marker on it. When you plan, you can put
any speed marker on the card, no matter if it matches the arrow."

pag. 11, 1st column, second paragraph, erase "The tailing plane may
then change the first planned maneuvre of the tailing plane".

pag. 12, second column, line 1, read "High Speed" instead than "Low
Speed".

pag. 14, colonna 1, riga 6: replace "(unless the skill staters
otherwise" with ", except for Golden touch."

At pag. 14, col. 2, par. 3 becomes "Exceptional pilot: This pilot
can use the same maneuver card twice in succession. Take the speed
marker with the symbol of this skill and add it to the others. When
you plan your move and you want to use a maneuver twice in a row,
you can put any card on the console as a fake (it is not relevant
which) and that marker on it: when you reveal them, use the maneuver
card you used last instead of the one revealed. Speed remain the
same of the previous maneuver. The speed marker is returned among
the others.".

At pag. 14, col. 2, par. 5 becomes "For all other maneuvres, the
restrictions of the reused card are again taken into account. So for
example, you can not plan this skill marker after an Immelmann"

[aikavaras]

Good find that errata. Thank you for sharing!

[csadn]

Can the errata be 'ported to the Files section here? Or has it been already?

[bsmith13]

Thanks for bringing attention to this...I missed it the first time.

[Dom S]

No problem chaps.

[Pooh]

Dom,

You wouldn't have something to do with that game "A very British Civil War" would you? Some friends of mine are painting armies for it as we speak.

Pooh

[Dom S]

No, nothing to do with me - I know a few chaps who are into it, but not my cup of tea.

[Pooh]

Just asked as "The People's Republic of South Yorkshire" sounds like something that would come out of that game.

Pooh

[Dom S]

Ahh, I see, but no; Sheffield's had a reputation since the '80s as a slightly odd pseudo-socialist bit of the otherwise wonderfully level-headed county of Yorkshire, and the People's Republic epithet has always amused me, so I tend to use it....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_South_Yorkshire

[AlgyLacey]

Ahh, I see, but no; Sheffield's had a reputation since the '80s as a slightly odd pseudo-socialist bit of the otherwise wonderfully level-headed county of Yorkshire, and the People's Republic epithet has always amused me, so I tend to use it....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_South_Yorkshire

Sheffield also has the worst one way system in the universe - it's a trap! Once you get into town you drive round and round unable to find the way out until you run out of petrol and buy a house. People have been known to abandon their cars and walk home to civilisation.

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/maintenance/abandoned-vehicles

There are also rumours of a visiting group of Swedish tourists whose descendents are now a tribe of cannibal pygmies who live in a VW van called Mobius.:p

I hate Sheffield. :mad:

Dom is a missionary trying to bring enlightenment (and little aeroplanes) to the benighted folk doomed to circle the inner ring road for eternity.:D

[Dom S]

Burn the heretic! :p

Oddly although born a Bristolian and raised a Codhead, I'm rather attached to Sheffield, and am hard-pressed to think of a city I'd rather be in. Mind you, I am just off the tram route, and don't drive....

Dom.

[csadn]

I hate Sheffield.

Urban Areas, in general, Suck.

And I ought to know -- I once lived in the L.A. Basin.... :P

[Anav]

I found this http://www.cv6.org/ship/logs/action19420807.htm very interesting:

The F4F-4, considering equality of pilots, is no match for the Japanese Zero fighter in a dog fight, plane for plane, due to the superiority of the Zero in climb, speed, maneuverability, and endurance. However, in its ruggedness, ability to "take it", and fire power the F4F-4 is superior to the Zeros. These factors of superiority, combined with an apparent superiority of our pilots in deflection shooting, give the F4F-4 a reasonable chance of attaining a successful outcome in an engagement in which there are several fighters involved on both sides. The principal weaknesses of the Zero are (1) inability to absorb hits, and (2) ineffective fire power. The modification of the design of either airplane toward that of the other probably would result in a fighter superior both to the F4F-4 and the Zero.
It is now believed that the best defense for F4F's against Zero attack is for each plane of the two plane element to turn away and then turn immediately toward each other and set up a continuous "scissors". Thus, when a Zero bears on one of the F4F's the other F4F is in position to fire on the Zero. A short accurate burst from the F4F is generally sufficient to knock down the Zero whereas the F4F can absorb almost unbelievable punishment from the Zero.

[Pooh]

The Zero actually had pretty good firepower which makes the wildcat's toughness even more remarkable. The manouver your describing is called the "Thatch Weave" after Cmdr Thatch USN who developed it. American team tactics are what kept the wildcat and other early war US fighters in the game.

The wildcat was actually a very nimble little plane, just not in the same league as the zero. It reportedly could hold its own in the Med against Italian fighters and 109E's.

Pooh

[Delnore]

Thach thought the four-gun F4F-3 was better than the six-gun F4F-4, particularly against a more-maneuverable foe like the Zero. Basically, in a less-maneuverable aircraft, you want more rounds per gun so you can take more of the fleeting shot opportunities that arise. He did not agree with the proposition that more guns means more hits: "a pilot who will miss with four guns will miss with eight" or something like that. Only if you have a more maneuverable aircraft should you increase armament, Thach said.

Someone must have agreed with him because the FM-1 and subsequent Wildcats reverted to four guns. I think the complaint about rounds per gun was widespread.

Of course, in this game the F4F-4 gets higher firepower. And since all shots are the same and you take all shots, it's a better aircraft. You would need to ammunition limits and some sort of deflection or shot-quality rule to show the downside. (I haven't read that the guns cost the F4F-4 any performance.)