exposing Damage tokens?

[BeastlyHun]

Greetings all, I just received the Dawn of War Deluxe package today :) I do have a question regarding the use of damage tokens. The Rulebook says when an a/c is fired upon, "the targeted plane takes the appropriate number of damage tokens...and secretly looks at them. The player keeps all damage tokens together, facedown" Why facedown?? :confused: Why are the damage tokens not exposed face up to show all the other players if any and how much damage was incurred?

[KiltedWolf]

As I understand it, it is to keep the damage "more real." In real life you might not know how much damage was inflicted on an a/c, especially if vital systems were missed. Also, if special damage is taken, such as loss of a right turn, your opponent is not forewarned, which could alter their strategy -- and not in your favor.

Just my two cents,

Cheers,
KW

[Anav]

Many Many times my group show the damage tokens. Really just a reason to trash talk one another. Its funny how many times a plane runs amok with only one point left.

[KiltedWolf]

I agree Steve, our group usually does the same thing! But, we do usually keep special damage to ourselves. Makes for an interesting after action report!

[Anav]

I cant tell you how many times I would pour round after round into a plane, then he turns them over and they are all zeros!!!!

[BeastlyHun]

Many Many times my group show the damage tokens.

I agree Steve, our group usually does the same thing! But, we do usually keep special damage to ourselves.

Hmm.. wouldn't an attacker notice "special damage": if target plane was smoking or on fire? And there are WWI & WWII first-hand accounts of attackers seeing crew, e.g., tail gunner being hit. However, I understand the reasoning for not exposing damaged controls e.g., jammed rudder...

[aikavaras]

In a way hidden damage makes sense. You don't necesserily know what parts of the enemy plane you have damaged. But on the other hand I think a pilot would most of the time know if he hit or missed completely. There would be flashes from explosive and incendiary ammunition and debris would fly off. There could be gasoline or oil leaks. And of course if you fly close enough you can even see the holes, at least the bigger ones. That's why I prefer to deal the damage tokens face up.

[swarbs]

I cant tell you how many times I would pour round after round into a plane, then he turns them over and they are all zeros!!!!

I wish I had the same poker face as your friend must have. Usually when I draw a card or chit and pull a zero I go ahead and smirk or something. Anyway, I end up giving it away.

I do like the mechanic of keeping the damage hidden, though, it just feels a little bit more 'real.'

[BeastlyHun]

In a way hidden damage makes sense. You don't necesserily know what parts of the enemy plane you have damaged. But on the other hand I think a pilot would most of the time know if he hit or missed completely. There would be flashes from explosive and incendiary ammunition and debris would fly off. There could be gasoline or oil leaks. And of course if you fly close enough you can even see the holes, at least the bigger ones. That's why I prefer to deal the damage tokens face up.

I should have read the manual more thoroughly because later it does say that smoke and fire damage tokens must be exposed. So I'm OK with the rules as they are written.

[Max Headroom]

I've played a few games with some who play open damage, then find pilots trying to collide with a plane only having 1 or 2 damage points left! Far too unrealistic for me... Keep it hidden and play honest.

[KiltedWolf]

I should have been more thorough in my explanation; we do display fire and smoke (using the Colonel's markers -- everybody exclaims when they come out, and non players notice as well, which helps to increase interest). Other damage (e.g. rudder) is hidden until the end of the game.

More and more lately we have been playing with limited ammo, and keeping damage hidden. At the con I fired four shots into HardRock and only after the game found out they were all zeros! Keeps it interesting to say the least -- and with limited ammo, you really want to fly in close before shooting. I believe this makes for a better pilot (i.e., flyer) in the long run.

Max: I am sorry to hear that you have pilots taking advantage of the rules in such a callous and unsportsmanlike way. I don't believe our group would stand for colliding with a plane just to get a kill. It is not realistic, except in the most dire of circumstances. We demand honest playing regardless of the (known/unknown) circumstances. One more reason to create pilots to carry from game to game. As their skill increases (ace points and such) one is far less likely to sacrifice them for a rule-bending kill.

Cheers!

[Charlie3]

In a way hidden damage makes sense. You don't necesserily know what parts of the enemy plane you have damaged. But on the other hand I think a pilot would most of the time know if he hit or missed completely. There would be flashes from explosive and incendiary ammunition and debris would fly off. There could be gasoline or oil leaks. And of course if you fly close enough you can even see the holes, at least the bigger ones. That's why I prefer to deal the damage tokens face up.I don't think the issue is if you can tell if you hit the target or not (pieces flying off ect.) I always assume that you can see the ammo striking the aircraft. The idea behind the hidden damage is simply so you don't know if you hit anything important. The bullets could just pass through the airframe without hitting anything but the skin entering and exiting. Although this is more likely in WWI than WWII because the early planes had alot more nothing in their airframe, there were a lot of pilots in WWII who flew their aircraft home full of holes and even missing parts!
I remember a discription from a Zero pilot of pouring shot after shot into a Wildcat and it miraculously continued to fly and evade. The pilot finely gave up as he was nearly out of fuel and ammo both. Lucky American!

[richard m schwab]

We always hid the damage. This works unless a player drawls special damage chip and asks what it means!;) The smoke and flame are always visible the actual hit points should be kept secrete. I use Litko flame and smoke or Aerodrome Accessories depending on the base being used.

Playing a game where your advisory looks like the winner in a high stakes poker game is not unusual. My luck runs to the high numbered chips every time!!!:o

Rich

[Jon]

Well i prefer to hide the damage my plane gets, but i have my 1st tournament in Jan, and have been told that the rules state that the damage have to be shown. So thats how we all play now unfortunately

[MayorJim]

I've played a few games with some who play open damage, then find pilots trying to collide with a plane only having 1 or 2 damage points left! Far too unrealistic for me... Keep it hidden and play honest.

No Kamikaze pilots for me...we keep them hidden. Smoke and fire of course show up pretty quick; and you can usually figure out rudder and engine damaged planes...I've had too many games where I kept blasting away and the target kept pulling zero hits :confused: