View Full Version : WGS: Series 7 preliminary lineup.
Oberst Hajj
10-10-2014, 12:41
Of course no dates or pilots for these yet and I've been told this list is subject to change:
Vought F4U Corsair
http://www.ww2warbirds.net/ww2pics/ww2vougf4u-1.jpg
Nakajima Ki.44-IIb and Ki.44-IIc
147688
Lockheed P-38F/L Lightning
147690
Messerschmitt Me.410
http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Me-410/Messerschmitt-Me-410/images/Messerschmitt-Me-210A1-Hornisse-(VN+AT)-WNr-210182-in-flight-1942-05.jpg
Black Sheep One
10-10-2014, 12:59
PayPal at the ready! I am, of course, excited about the Corsair, but also the Lightning! Ki. 44! Me. 410! Looks like a fantastic lineup, hope it doesn't change, just get better (like, maybe the Hellcat!)
Barkmann
10-10-2014, 13:04
Lightnings finally!! Seems a great match of planes, but maybe a Ki-45 instead of a Me-410? Dont know, just like the Ki-45 (well, hes Nick too!) a lot!:D
Can we suggest schemes Herr Oberst?:)
Thanks
Nick
No boost for Eastern front :(
But I like Corsait and Lightning :minis:
OHHHHHHHHHH!!!! HEEEEECCCCKKKKK YESSSSSS!!! Please please please!
Kinda funny they picked the "Tojo" over the Oscar, but an early war Japanese Army aircraft all the same!! We have needed one of them to pair up with the Zero for a long time.
Oberst Hajj
10-10-2014, 14:09
Can we suggest schemes Herr Oberst?:)
Suggest away, it can't hurt.
Some nice aircraft there, the Corsair I know will especially please a lot of the WGS fans.
I would have liked to have seen something for the BOB say a Defiant, but I am sure this will please a lot. I hope we will get the Blenheims, Defiants, Do17 and JU88 in the not too distant future.
Teaticket
10-10-2014, 14:58
As it says on one of my favorite planes, "Yippee"!
Interesting lineup: the Me.410 is certainly an odd choice. Did they think they needed an Axis plane with 2 engines to match the P-38 :confused:
Karl
OldGuy59
10-10-2014, 16:00
Suggest away, it can't hurt.
Cards are already in my album. More to follow.
Oberst Hajj
10-10-2014, 16:12
Interesting lineup: the Me.410 is certainly an odd choice. Did they think they needed an Axis plane with 2 engines to match the P-38 :confused:
Karl
From Wiki
The Me 410 was also used as a bomber destroyer against the daylight bomber formations of the USAAF, upgraded through the available Umrüst-Bausätze factory conversion kits, all bearing a /U suffix, for the design. The Me 410 A-1/U2 was fitted with two additional 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons in the undernose weapons bay, while the A-1/U4 was equipped with a Bordkanone series 50 mm (2 in) BK 5 cannon instead. For breaking up the bomber formations, many Me 410s also had four underwing tubes firing converted 21 cm (8 in) Werfer-Granate 21 mortar rockets. Two Geschwader, Zerstörergeschwader 26 and 76, were thus equipped with the Me 410 by late 1943.
Diamondback
10-10-2014, 16:17
Thing is, the P-38's kind of in a unique class--it has the twin engines and "Aim The Plane" easy aiming of a "zerstorer" type, but armament and handling closer to a single-engine single-seat type.
Zoe Brain
10-10-2014, 17:38
I'll be interested to see what the maneuver decks for these will be. The 410 is considerably faster than the 110, and performance of various P38 marks varied wildly.
Diamondback
10-10-2014, 17:40
True, anything before the E was only useful as a trainer for the more advanced versions to come. I personally would only take the XP or YP ("Yippee") into combat if they were like the last plane available and the alternate option was "die on the ground with no fight-back option."
grumpybear
10-10-2014, 17:46
I like that line up in particular the 410
Naharaht
10-10-2014, 18:47
Some good choices, particularly for the American market. Whatever Ares choose, someone will be disappointed.
Marechallannes
10-11-2014, 00:22
OH MY GOD!
What a great choice!
Halleluja, this is an amazing information.
With this series dreams become true, Herr Oberst! :cry: I'm getting emotional...
Wow I like this series.
F4U Corsair - how long did I wait for this plane... :clap: Randy open a barrel - time to fight down a few gallons of beer! :pint: :drinks: :drunk:
P 38 Lightning - the long missed US double engined fighter for bomber escort - long range fights in the Pacific - plane of the most successfull US pilots!!! :thumbsup:
Nakajima Ki.44 - I hope we see different armaments versions to fight Allied fighters and bombers!! :) Cannonfodder for the US planes.
Me. 410 - the follower of the Bf.110 - what to say. You can use this one for so much functions. :clap:
Three cheers to Ares!!!
:pint: :pint: :pint:
Guntruck
10-11-2014, 01:50
Yep, I can live with those choices.
Thunderbolt
10-11-2014, 03:05
Well, good news obviously, but frankly I'm not that much enthusiastic. Everything depends on preferences of course, but I'd like to see more common aircrafts.
Corsair - That's of course legendary aircraft, but if you look closer at the operational use during WW2 Hellcats made more sorties and had more combat wins. I definitely would like Hellcat to appear in my collection. My rank for this choice is 3 out of 5 scale (3/5), just fine but not something I'd die for.
Lightning - Bingo! That's very good news. My favourite plane in this series. I'd like to see Lightnings' duels over New Guinea and Solomon's Islands. My rank for this choice is 5/5. Excellent!
Ki-44 - not very manouverable and rather niche aircraft (only slightly over 1000 were produced throughout the war). It proved to be very good against B-29 but only without escort. Had a lot of problems fighting other fighters due to lack of manouverability. My rank 2/5, not recommended! I'd prefer other Japanese aircrafts to appear.
Me-410 - Again niche aircraft with limited use for scenarios. My rank 3/5.
If I could choose aircrafts to release my choice would go for:
American - Hellcat, Dauntless (I'd like to recreate Midway at last!) and Airacobra (working mule on all fronts!).
British - Mosquito, Wellington (why we don't have twin-engine british bomber yet?) and Spitfire V.
Russian - definitively need more Russian aircrafts. I'd go for I-15/I-16 models which will open a lot of possible scenarios (China War, Winter War 39/40, early Barbarossa), La-5 (over 10000 produced throughout the war!) and certainly Il-2 Sturmovik.
German - 109 Frank or Gustav, FW-190A and my choice for twin-engine would be Ju-88 (both bomber and fighter versions).
Italy - Macchi MC-202, S.M. 79 will cover most Italian scenarios.
Japan - Early war planes please! Certainly Oscar, but also Nate (it was main army fighter at outbreak of war, good for scenarios in China, Burma as well) and some twin-engine bomber like Betty or Nell. Mid-war Zero A6M3 version would be nice as well.
Nightbomber
10-11-2014, 04:01
Interesting lineup: the Me.410 is certainly an odd choice. Did they think they needed an Axis plane with 2 engines to match the P-38 :confused:
Karl
Fully agree with that statement of yours, Karl. 410? How come? :mad:
Fully agree with that statement of yours, Karl. 410? How come? :mad:
While I appreciate Sven's enthusiasm for the plane, there are much better choices.
Honestly, the P-38 really doesn't fit in the 2-engined/heavy fighter category. I'm sure we could come up with (or already have) a list of desired Axis fighters.
Otherwise, this is a very good series.
Karl
No problems at all with these, as an addict I'll happily hoover up any models they put out!
Black Sheep One
10-11-2014, 06:20
While I appreciate Sven's enthusiasm for the plane, there are much better choices.
Honestly, the P-38 really doesn't fit in the 2-engined/heavy fighter category. I'm sure we could come up with (or already have) a list of desired Axis fighters.
Otherwise, this is a very good series.
Karl
Agreed, even though I am excited for the Lightning. The P-61 would be more of a fit to the Me410.
Oberst Hajj
10-11-2014, 07:33
If you look at this release in context with the heavies that are coming out now, it makes a lot of sense.
Battle of Britain will be addressed between the Series 6 and Series 7 releases. It was intended to come out before 6, but is still in the works now... were S6 models are "nearly done".
As to the SBD being still missing in action, I'd say look for it with the Pacific "reset" release.
In the end, I think we could see 3 releases for WGS next year and if things were really fast paces, 4. I know the heavy bombers took a lot of their production resources to develop and produce. With those out of the way, things should speed up some.
Teaticket
10-11-2014, 07:53
Thanks Oberst, thats all good news. Now just to be patient and save for future :money::money::minis::minis:
Nightbomber
10-11-2014, 08:18
While the rest of the series is perfect, I can not understand the reason behind the decision to put valuable ARES resources into Me 410 production. Simply can not, while we are still lacking MANY more of German iconic planes! Where is Bf 109F/G, where are Dorniers, where is the multipurpose Ju 88? WHERE IS Fw 190 A/G?
Marechallannes
10-11-2014, 08:43
Me 410 - Bf.109K - FW190D - a nice late war combo.
Fits perfect to the P51 - P38 - B17 - P47. ;)
I for one find the Axis unit selection for this series a tad strange, but I like that some more obscure aircraft make it into the game from time to time. It adds variety and makes the game stand out with the wide range of aircraft types. The beautiful thing here is that the game includes lesser known and non iconic options like the upcoming Tojo and Me-410 and the D.520.
If series seven and series six don't have any lineup changes I will be very pleased. For me personally, in series 8, I would love to see the F6F Hellcat, which certainly needs to take its earned seat at the table as well as some love for the Italians in the form of the Macchi 202 Folgore or Macchi 205 Veltro. I would also like a Ju-88 for the Germans and a Mosquito for the British to round out set 8. But I am being hasty and getting way way way ahead of the cart......A man can dream can't he?
Now Oberst, I am intrigued by this "Pacific Reset" series you have referred to in a prior post. Does that mean the SBD has been bumped from series 6? Perhaps this set has a direct corelation with prior hints at the new ways of reprinting the old WoG 1 and 2 series. Could this mean a Wildcat and Zero reprint could accompany the upcoming SBD and Judy? Perhaps followed by a BOB themed set that has the reprinted Spit Mk1 and 109 reappear in it? Maybe with a Stuka reprint as well? That begs the question of how the P-47 and BF-109K also set to debut in series six will be released. Care to elaborate a bit thier boss? Am I remotely on the mark at all? Perhaps this info is being saved for a later date. It's nice to get a little tease here and there, so I understand if we have to wait a bit longer. That being said, if the SBD has been delayed even longer, you might see a grown man cry and let me tell you, it isn't pretty.
Most importantly, I am stoked that WGS appears to be making a strong comeback on the release front. To me waiting a year between releases due to the high cost and resource demands of the Heavies was a sacrafice well worth making! I am beyond thrilled to get these bad boys and have already dropped roughly 400 dollars on preorders for them. Hopefully they sell well enough to get us a B-24 Liberator and Vickers Wellington at some point down the line. I am also very interested to see some Axis twin engine Bombers like the Betty and Sparviero.
So Ares, please forgive my hastiness and I forgive you for the long time period between releases, in order to bring us these absolutely amazing looking B-17s and Lancs. While they probably won't make the tables as often as the fighters do, they will have quite the wow factor to them when they do and are just absolutely gorgeous models for display purposes.
Oberst Hajj
10-11-2014, 11:09
Sorry, the SBD is going to be in Series 6... I lost track of it there for a bit.
More info on the "reset"... BoB and Midway ;)
Flying Officer Kyte
10-11-2014, 12:43
Well at least it has given me a reminder of where we are Keith. I knew taking on WW2 was a step too far.
Thanks.
Rob.
AlgyLacey
10-11-2014, 13:01
The thing I would really really like to see is a series one reprint for WWII. Come on Ares.
Oberst Hajj
10-11-2014, 13:22
The thing I would really really like to see is a series one reprint for WWII. Come on Ares.
It's a reprint Jim, but not as we know it.
Diamondback
10-11-2014, 13:25
It'll be at once something old, something new, and something really cool--like I said, I'm not letting anything out of the bag until the bombers hit retail, but some features y'all have wanted for a long time you're about to get. :D
Flying Officer Kyte
10-11-2014, 14:25
The thing I would really really like to see is a series one reprint for WWII. Come on Ares.
Take a peek at post 25 Dave.
Rob.
Yet again I am happy with all of them and shall be buy at least 2 of each. Now to pay of my credit card in anticipation:cheezy:
gully_raker
10-11-2014, 15:27
Well, good news obviously, but frankly I'm not that much enthusiastic. Everything depends on preferences of course, but I'd like to see more common aircrafts.
Corsair - That's of course legendary aircraft, but if you look closer at the operational use during WW2 Hellcats made more sorties and had more combat wins. I definitely would like Hellcat to appear in my collection. My rank for this choice is 3 out of 5 scale (3/5), just fine but not something I'd die for.
Lightning - Bingo! That's very good news. My favourite plane in this series. I'd like to see Lightnings' duels over New Guinea and Solomon's Islands. My rank for this choice is 5/5. Excellent!
Ki-44 - not very manouverable and rather niche aircraft (only slightly over 1000 were produced throughout the war). It proved to be very good against B-29 but only without escort. Had a lot of problems fighting other fighters due to lack of manouverability. My rank 2/5, not recommended! I'd prefer other Japanese aircrafts to appear.
Me-410 - Again niche aircraft with limited use for scenarios. My rank 3/5.
If I could choose aircrafts to release my choice would go for:
American - Hellcat, Dauntless (I'd like to recreate Midway at last!) and Airacobra (working mule on all fronts!).
British - Mosquito, Wellington (why we don't have twin-engine british bomber yet?) and Spitfire V.
Russian - definitively need more Russian aircrafts. I'd go for I-15/I-16 models which will open a lot of possible scenarios (China War, Winter War 39/40, early Barbarossa), La-5 (over 10000 produced throughout the war!) and certainly Il-2 Sturmovik.
German - 109 Frank or Gustav, FW-190A and my choice for twin-engine would be Ju-88 (both bomber and fighter versions).
Italy - Macchi MC-202, S.M. 79 will cover most Italian scenarios.
Japan - Early war planes please! Certainly Oscar, but also Nate (it was main army fighter at outbreak of war, good for scenarios in China, Burma as well) and some twin-engine bomber like Betty or Nell. Mid-war Zero A6M3 version would be nice as well.
G'day Rafal!
Have you checked out Armaments in Miniature ?
They make most of the US & Jap models you are after. Not sure about the Russian ones but they do do some Ruskies.
Extremely nice Resin models but you do have to paint them. Decals are also available from the site.
Even after several hours, I'm still not reconciled with the Japanese and German aircraft. Why, why another Jap? And another two-engine heavy fighter from Germany? Why not Do.335? (OK, OK, OK, I know, that was only a rhetorical question) Pfeil would be awesome! :sick:
I'm just screaming into the night, I know, but I had to. Sorry, friends :surrender:
It'll be at once something old, something new, and something really cool--like I said, I'm not letting anything out of the bag until the bombers hit retail, but some features y'all have wanted for a long time you're about to get. :D
hmmm, I am guessing the first two series from WOG WWII will see a reprint, but not all aircraft from each series at once. I am betting the Midway set has Wildcat, Zero, Val(perhaps a Kate torpedo plane instead) and a torpedo plane for the Allies. I am torn about which American torpedo bomber though. A Devastator makes sense, but an Avenger would be more popular. I kinda hope we see both eventually., but I have to go with the TBF here. I will also guess that each of the reprinted aircraft will retain/reprint one pilot, like they did for WWI and gain two new pilots/paint schemes.
I am going to guess the BoB themed reprint series will include the Spitfire MK. 1, Hurricane, Stuka, and a Bf-109 reprint. Same thing as above one retained pilot and two new pilots/paint scheme.
Essentially, the D.520 and potentially the Val are out of luck!
This is just a stab from left field and I have no inside information and therfore I am probably way off the mark. I love the anticipation of all this! Will be sweet to see what is in store for us in the next 12-18 months for WGS.
Now do us all a favor and tell those ship captains to haul booty across them Oceans and deliver those Heavies!
Kinda funny they picked the "Tojo" over the Oscar, but an early war Japanese Army aircraft all the same!! We have needed one of them to pair up with the Zero for a long time.
The Ki-43 is *embarrassingly* underarmed for the game; most models only carried twin 0.50s, only the last model carried 20mm cannon (again, only two), and the early models' firepower compares favorably to *WW1* fighters. The -44 at least has four guns in most models.
I look at the selections, and the theme I see is "Allied ground-attack, Axis anti-bomber". The -38 and F4U|FG|F3A were used frequently for ground-attack as well as air-to-air (so much so that in Korea, the Corsair was redesignated "AU-1"). The Ki-44 goes against Allied bomber units in SE Asia, as well as Home Defense -- some were deployed in Borneo and Sumatra to defend the oil fields -- so it goes against the B-25 and B-17. (Also: The mold can be reused for its replacement, the Ki-84.) The -410, when the Germans finally got that PoS to work, was mainly used for anti-bomber work; it goes against the B-17 also, as well as the Lancaster. So, if one combines this series with the "big boys" recently released, one can see a coherent campaign theme becoming viable.
And FW 190? The last series had a FW 190D. Hopefully someday, we get an "A" variant as well.
And that's what I ask, where's short-nosed FW :)
Barkmann
10-11-2014, 17:46
I prefer the A version of the FW190 than the D one.
In the 410 question, what are other german twin engine fighters? The Me-410 feels strange for me comoared to the P-38. And the latter, as said before, is a very peculiar plane. Hard to find matches. But its a must in WoG.
Diamondback
10-11-2014, 18:00
Some Ju88 variants, and I thought there were a few other advanced Messerchmitt x10 and Junkers x88 variants that had fighter models alongside the light-bomber versions.
BAM. really happy with this. ME410 is the highlight for me, and the P-38's make perfect sense for escort duties. That with the mustang and P47's you've got the escort trifector down pat. Definitely needed more to attack the bombers with, ME410 for the win!
My only negatives are that I would have been much more excited to see support for the eastern front, only having Yaks seems a waste. I have never flown them once. The KI-44 is irrelevant to me too I probably won't buy more than 1, for me its all about the european theatres. IF we get some New Guinea/Australian support that would be my gateway into the pacific theatre. Did the KI44 get any use near New Guinea?
Diamondback
10-11-2014, 20:59
We know they made it at least to Malyasia and future-Vietnam:
http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/533c4cb99aad9d662d000005/nakajima-ki-44-shoki
But not to 6th or 7th Air Div in NG:
http://www.j-aircraft.com/faq/ki44.htm#Ki%2044%27s%20in%20New%20Guinea%20?
OK, in the context of what's been released, and been announced, I agree there seems to be a plan.
I don't agree with it, but there's a plan.
Point 1: Ares has to stop mixing Europe and Pacific. with only 4 planes, balanced with 2 Allied and 2 Axis, it doesn't give enough for a nice mix, esp. for those who do only 1 theater.
Point 2: Unless Ares fixes their logistics to re-issue older series more promptly, when series 7 comes out, will you be able to get a P-51 or Fw-190D for anything
less than scalper rates? Or even a Me-109K?
I'm encouraged by the hints from Herr Oberst and DB; I'm hopeful that BoB will be a Spitfire, a Hurricane, A Bf-109E and a Ju-87. With maybe a He-111 on the side.
Midway should be the Wildcat, the Zero, the Val, and ??? (Devestator, Kate)
Why not Do.335? (OK, OK, OK, I know, that was only a rhetorical question) Pfeil would be awesome!
AMEN Brother But then we'd need new faster rules (still thinking this one out; maybe something this fall :slysmile:)
The Ki-44 goes against Allied bomber units in SE Asia, as well as Home Defense -- some were deployed in Borneo and Sumatra to defend the oil fields -- so it goes against the B-25 and B-17. (Also: The mold can be reused for its replacement, the Ki-84.)
I don't know, Chris. The wingspan of the Ki-44 is 9.45m, while the Ki-84 is 11.24m. At 1/200 scale that's still a 8.95mm diff; kind of noticeable.
Besides, we already have that released ;)
Karl
I believe that Ares should release first things first, concentrating at one period & theatre at the time, giving advantage to most used airplanes. And later to release "unusuals".
Oberst Hajj
10-12-2014, 07:52
Point 1: Ares has to stop mixing Europe and Pacific. with only 4 planes, balanced with 2 Allied and 2 Axis, it doesn't give enough for a nice mix, esp. for those who do only 1 theater.
Karl
But then would everyone be content to get ET or PT minis just every other year?? I think not. lol
There is no way for them to win the "release war" with customers.
But then would everyone be content to get ET or PT minis just every other year?? I think not. lol
There is no way for them to win the "release war" with customers.
Let's not forget the Eastern Front either. Obviously not as popular as the Pacific or BoB, there are still aircraft worth having from that theater of operation. I hope Ares will throw us the occasional bone from that theater in the future. I know I wouldn't mind a Strumovik or Mig-3 to, or even a Pe-2 to go with the Yak and lend-lease Hurricane.
Marechallannes
10-12-2014, 10:27
I don't think we'll see Russians or Italians so soon agian.
Main focus is on ALLIES versus Germany & Japan.
To be honest I don't want Russians and Italians "at the moment" before the most wanted Allied and German/Japanese planes are in production. Lucky me, because I'm in the midst of the actual mainstream. ;)
But I don't complain neither if they release WW II planes outside the actual mainstream.
Just saw this and I do like the Corsair and P-38 for sure. The other two not sure about but will get to have a complete set. I have to agree with Rafal about other selections. Still hoping for the Dauntless and Kate. Russian I-16's would also be great.
J...Russian I-16's would also be great.
Now you ask, when I just ordered Rattas at Shapeways ;)
...
AMEN Brother But then we'd need new faster rules (still thinking this one out; maybe something this fall :slysmile:)
...
Karl
I knew You will react! I understand very well your passion for Pfeil. May be it was only an experiment, but bloody interesting :)
Very nice choice of planes :)
Marechallannes
10-12-2014, 22:48
.... Still hoping for the Dauntless and Kate. Russian I-16's would also be great.
See series 6 for the upcoming Dauntless bombers.
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?17642-Dauntless-SBD-5-Pick-your-pilots-for-the-up-coming-minis
Thunderbolt
10-12-2014, 23:42
I don't think we'll see Russians or Italians so soon agian.
Seems so, although I'm bit disappointed. I'd like to recreate biggest aviation battles with WGS and it would be nice to focus on that purpose. And take a look at Kursk'43 for instance, the air forces involved there are comparable in numbers to the numbers involved in BoB. Moscow'41 and Stalingrad'42-43 involved a lot of planes as well.
Main focus is on ALLIES versus Germany & Japan.
Not even that. I'd say that late war european theatre is the focus. If you think about Japan we do not have Army figthers like Nates (over 3000 produced) or Oscars (close to 6000 produced). Neither Bettys (2500 produced) nor Lillys (2000 produced) are available for bombing missions. The same problem goes for early- and mid-war allied aircrafts on Pacific theatre, we have only P40E (although B & C versions were more common during early War on Pacific), but no Brewster Buffalo, Curtiss Hawk, P-39 Airacobra. Good that Dautless is coming, so Battle of Coral Sea and Midway are available at hand :)
I'm really big fan of Ares and I want to support them buing their products. But how many K-44 or Me-410 will you buy? Perhaps a pair each? I'd like to have that many Oscars only! And now take Airacobra or I-16. If I think how many versions I'd like to have (even with some repainting involved) for Airacobra I go for 4 on east front (2 summer and 2 winter versions) and 2-3 on Pacific. Even more goes for I-16, as I'd like to cover Spanish Civil War (2-3 planes), Nomonhan Incident, Winter War'39 and Barbarossa (3 summer & 3 winter planes) and some China War (say 2 planes). So my counter goes to 10 planes of just I-16 model.
Marechallannes
10-13-2014, 01:55
We have Zeros, 3 versions of KI-61, Aichi Val dive bombers and KI-84 for Japan.
Soon we'll have the Judy bomber and with series 7 the Ki-44. Not bad for a Pacific scenario.
Nightbomber
10-13-2014, 03:22
I decided to source some essential (for me) WWII models outside ARES. AIM (Mc 200, Fiat Br-20, Kawasaki Lily, Hs 129, Airacobra, Fw-190A) and Shapeways (PZL P-11, PZL P-24, I-16, Bf 109F/G, Spitfire V trop). Now have 2-6 of each of them, some are ready, some on the workbench. EF and MED theatres are supplied.
Thunderbolt
10-13-2014, 08:50
We have Zeros, 3 versions of KI-61, Aichi Val dive bombers and KI-84 for Japan.
Soon we'll have the Judy bomber and with series 7 the Ki-44. Not bad for a Pacific scenario.
Very true, Sven. That gives already a choice for Pacific. :thumbsup: Nevertheless there're more common aircrafts waiting in the queue, that's my point.
Anyway, I shouldn't have complained at any release. :smack: It's better to have more minis to choose from, after all :minis: I'm just big fan of early&mid war scenarios, as you can see.
Blackronin
10-13-2014, 10:09
I want to have every plane in WW2 that fought, so... every plane Ares produces is a good plane.
I can't wait years for all planes being produced so I'll look for planes in other planes until Ares produces them and then I'll buy a few.
Dauntless are coming, meanwhile I already have two... That's life. Would I prefer other planes to be produced before the Me-410? I would, but won't I use it in the skies over Portugal when finally the little bird reaches my hands? Oh yes, I will...
So just enjoy the knowledge that our ww2 hobby is alive and well and start dreaming about what to do with them.
With each release we have that much more variety and ability to recreate battles. Give us 2-3 release a year, and it won't be too long until some of those holes in our line ups start filling in. In a year like this where the Hevies have taken up so much time and resources, it is hard to remember how much product Ares has released for this game in such a short period of time! Keep 'me coming Ares and I will happily keep buying.
Battle of Britain will be addressed between the Series 6 and Series 7 releases. It was intended to come out before 6, but is still in the works now... were S6 models are "nearly done".
"Nearly done" is that the series 6 prototypes or the actual series 6 retail models? Is it safe to assume we will see series 6 in the Spring 2015? Is late Winter 2015 possible? Any idea on the finalized pilots and paint schemes? Perhaps, this is all information slated to be annouced after the Heavies hit retail. Just know, we are very interested to know what comes next and very "broadly" when! :)
Oberst Hajj
10-14-2014, 10:43
I'm pretty sure the Heavies is all we are going to see this year. In one of my previous posts, I'm pretty sure I mentioned they are shooting for a May-ish release for Series 6.... so late spring or early summer.
I'm pretty sure the Heavies is all we are going to see this year. In one of my previous posts, I'm pretty sure I mentioned they are shooting for a May-ish release for Series 6.... so late spring or early summer.
Considering we are in mid October already, I would doubt another release this year would be feasible this year. I must have missed the other post about the May/June release of series six, sorry about that Boss! May/June sounds great, but if what you say is tru and we get two more WGS releases in 2015, that is going to make for a very expensive second half of 2015, especially if they somehow make a fourth release for WGS fit in there as well! Oh well, keep 'em coming!
Still no Mosquito.... I just don't understand ARES on that one
Marechallannes
10-14-2014, 23:41
A Mossie is cool, but I see no need it for "at the moment".
We still have no rules for night fight. (So we have to wait for the He.219, too. ;))
For special operations like ground attack, anti-ship attack, there's the Beaufighter at the moment. A nice RAF two engine bird with a powerful punch.
Gallo Rojo
10-15-2014, 04:24
here is something I'm learning from this beautiful game:
The USSR didn't fight on WW2
even more: it is not like it disappeared in 1991... it may never have existed at all!
Will we ever seen a Lavochkin La-7? not to mention a lyushin Il-2?
Love the Corsair though
here is something I'm learning from this beautiful game:
The USSR didn't fight on WW2
even more: it is not like it disappeared in 1991... it may never have existed at all!
That's to counterweight all the people who insist the Soviet Bunion won the war all by itself. >;)
Honestly: The problem with the Eastern Front is its complete separation from the Western Front -- one can build Me-109s from now until the time_ts wrap around, but one is forced to choose between "West" and "East". Heck, one can get away with "Pacific Theatre" Western units in Europe -- the British used Hellcats and Corsairs in Europe, if not in huge numbers -- but one cannot have P-51s and Yak-9s fighting alongside each other (tho' there's scenario where they fight *against* each other in Europe, but no one likes to talk about that >:) ). So then one has to ask "which is going to sell better?".
Diamondback
10-15-2014, 15:15
Oh, do not wind me up about the Evil Empire... LOL
Gallo Rojo
10-16-2014, 09:14
here is something I'm learning from this beautiful game:
The USSR didn't fight on WW2
That's to counterweight all the people who insist the Soviet Bunion won the war all by itself. >;)
The USSR didn't win the WW2 all by itself... it just defeated about 80% of the German Army by itself ;)
Honestly: The problem with the Eastern Front is its complete separation from the Western Front (...) So then one has to ask "which is going to sell better?".
I don't think that is the problem with the Eastern Front :)
Seriously: how many Hellcats and Corsairs fought on Europe? :)
I think the problem is that Ares is focusing on the US and Western Europe market (that is were most of the buyers are I'm guessing), and hence they focus mostly on US equipment (and British to a lesser extent) ... and of course you need some Japanese planes as mobil targets.
If Russia and Eastern Europe were the main target market, then we would have seen lost of Soviet aircrafts already.
I've seen the similar results in almost every wargame I've played. And I've played quite a few.
ps: I think that, unfortunately, we only will see Soviet planes when (if ever) WoG moves to the Jet-Era ... and even then we probably have a Jet-Era series 1 of F86 Sabre, F-84 Thunderjet, F9F Panther... and a MiG-15 ;)
Oberst Hajj
10-16-2014, 09:26
I think the problem is that Ares is focusing on the US and Western Europe market (that is were most of the buyers are I'm guessing)
Ares stated at one point that the US makes up about 60% of it's market. So, that is indeed why the game is a little US imbalanced ;)
David Manley
10-16-2014, 09:26
Oh, do not wind me up about the Evil Empire... LOL
Games Workshop are taking over Ares? :D
Nightbomber
10-16-2014, 09:34
The USSR didn't win the WW2 all by itself... it just defeated about 80% of the German Army by itself ;)
I don't think that is the problem with the Eastern Front :)
Seriously: how many Hellcats and Corsairs fought on Europe? :)
I think the problem is that Ares is focusing on the US and Western Europe market (that is were most of the buyers are I'm guessing), and hence they focus mostly on US equipment (and British to a lesser extent) ... and of course you need some Japanese planes as mobil targets.
If Russia and Eastern Europe were the main target market, then we would have seen lost of Soviet aircrafts already.
I've seen the similar results in almost every wargame I've played. And I've played quite a few.
ps: I think that, unfortunately, we only will see Soviet planes when (if ever) WoG moves to the Jet-Era ... and even then we probably have a Jet-Era series 1 of F86 Sabre, F-84 Thunderjet, F9F Panther... and a MiG-15 ;)
I am the last person to be considered as a USSR war effort fan and supporter, nor I am an Eastern Front fan, but air warfare over the EF is vastly underestimated and not known sufficiently. The WGS gaming possibilities are (IMHO) much better than the Western European theatre offers, for many reasons:
1. a greater variety of planes involved (including British and American LL types),
2. longer period of air activity (not just BoB, channel front and Air War over Germany),
3. one side plays the underdog (Soviet Forces) in the beginning, then slowly evolves into a superior one in numbers,
4. a greater variety of possible historical missions (ground attacks, to mention just one),
5. winter/summer conditions that can be modelled in the game scenarios.
I know I am not the only one to think that way. Honzo?
Gallo Rojo
10-16-2014, 09:52
Ares stated at one point that the US makes up about 60% of it's market. So, that is indeed why the game is a little US imbalanced ;)
I'm actually ok with a little bit of US imbalance... and I like very much the idea of the Pacific and the NA/Med theaters taking very much into account (I would love seeing more Italian planes, specially a SM-79 eventually)... but we're talking about Series 7 already and the only truly Soviet fighter we've got was the Yak-1 (plus the infamous Soviet Hawker Hurricane... I would'd loved a Soviet P-40).
Isn't time for a La-7 or something already? I'm not afraid of matching a La-7 vs a P-51 :)
And if there isn't a Il-2 in the next Dive-Bombers set I will be really really sad :(
Guntruck
10-16-2014, 10:01
A Mossie is cool, but I see no need it for "at the moment"..
Them's fighting words :boxing::D
Oberst Hajj
10-16-2014, 10:22
I'm actually ok with a little bit of US imbalance... and I like very much the idea of the Pacific and the NA/Med theaters taking very much into account (I would love seeing more Italian planes, specially a SM-79 eventually)... but we're talking about Series 7 already and the only truly Soviet fighter we've got was the Yak-1 (plus the infamous Soviet Hawker Hurricane... I would'd loved a Soviet P-40).
Isn't time for a La-7 or something already? I'm not afraid of matching a La-7 vs a P-51 :)
And if there isn't a Il-2 in the next Dive-Bombers set I will be really really sad :(
The other thing holding back more Soviet planes is their lack of sales. Here in the US you can pick the Yak and Russian Hurricane minis up in just about any game shop for big discounts... in fact, those series is one of the reasons WGS had such a poor start and is not played more here in the US :(
The other thing holding back more Soviet planes is their lack of sales. Here in the US you can pick the Yak and Russian Hurricane minis up in just about any game shop for big discounts... in fact, those series is one of the reasons WGS had such a poor start and is not played more here in the US :(
This would not be true of Italian planes, though. I mean, everyone wishes they were Italian, no? ;)
Diamondback
10-16-2014, 12:26
Games Workshop are taking over Ares? :D
Something wrong with your priorities if you think Games Whackjob is more evil than the Soviet Union, amigo... :p Props to MI6 for keeping Lenin's global-revolution ambitions from Going Viral back in the day, though--the library I work out of just got a book about that op and my favorite naughty librarian friend made sure I got first crack at it.
David Manley
10-16-2014, 13:49
Geez, lighten up already :hmm:
Diamondback
10-16-2014, 13:51
Hence the razzberry... :D
Flying Officer Kyte
10-16-2014, 14:33
Hence the razzberry... :D
Would that be a series 7 raspberry then?
148063
Rob. :D
Oberst Hajj
10-16-2014, 14:56
And now back to the original topic....
Hmm I wouldn't blame the low sales of that series on the Yak.. Every single one of that series sold badly. I think the p40 sold the best, but even that is still fairly easy to find today. Honestly, the Japanese planes seem to always sell slowly. even the Zero's are sell for the same on ebay as they were at launch. I think if Ares is factoring in that series as an indicator of bad sales its an unfair appraisal. Another factor that held it back was you could only get 1 of the minis of each if you bought the starter set, which is now sold out everywhere and was expensive to ship around the world if you missed out in your country. Plus to get that Yak in that set you had to buy 3 other minis you probably didn't want.
Like anything, if you get one good sale of a type, the back catalogue of similar types will pick up in sales. I bet if some Lavochkins or Migs or a sturmovik was released the Yaks would sell out world wide in days.
I reckon they should release a purely eastern front release. 4 planes, Some serious catchup.
Sturmovik
Lavochkin La-5
petlyakov Pe 2 or Mig 3
FW190a
I would also love to see some stukas with anti tank cannons and winter camo.
It IS nice that we got the winter camo Heinkel.. I know not where that unit was actually used though. Was it Eastern Front?
Diamondback
10-16-2014, 18:51
So, technically what separates a Ju87B/R from a D/G? G is IIRC basically just a D with cannon gondolas strapped on...
Oberst Hajj
10-16-2014, 18:53
Hmm I wouldn't blame the low sales of that series on the Yak.. Every single one of that series sold badly. I think the p40 sold the best, but even that is still fairly easy to find today. Honestly, the Japanese planes seem to always sell slowly. even the Zero's are sell for the same on ebay as they were at launch. I think if Ares is factoring in that series as an indicator of bad sales its an unfair appraisal. Another factor that held it back was you could only get 1 of the minis of each if you bought the starter set, which is now sold out everywhere and was expensive to ship around the world if you missed out in your country. Plus to get that Yak in that set you had to buy 3 other minis you probably didn't want.
You are right, all of Series 3 were poor sellers. But my comment was about the Yak and Hurricane as a group. Both those minis were the poorest sellers of their Series to my knowledge. In fact, I've only sold 15 Yak-1 minis (both pilots combined) in two years. The other planes are not much better, but the Hill P-40 sold out worldwide sometime in 2013 and the Lott followed suit sometime this year. Compare that with only two of the P-51D minis selling 37 in just a few months. In fact, I've sold one less P-51D (all three pilots combined) in a couple of months than I have all of Series 3 minis combined in almost two years.
Heck, in the same time frame, I've sold 31 more Bf.110s then all of Series 3 combined. Man, Series 3 was really bad :(
Diamondback
10-16-2014, 19:12
And now I'm starting to worry about supply lines on three more Doolittle B-25s for a special project... one of the Raiders is a neighbor, and I'm still thinking about re-marking a Doolittle and asking someone here to make up custom plane and crew-management cards so I can present him a custom miniature of his old bird. (Why do I need three? One stock Doolittle for the memory of his old boss... and a second repaint for myself, which I'm hoping to get him to sign the card for.)
Hey DB,
Sue is willing to help with the custom card.
Her username is ling.
Diamondback
10-16-2014, 19:50
Thanks, both of you--this project is a concept at this point, it's going to depend on if I can get nose-art references. (Or find my old Accurate Miniatures Doolittle B-25 kit's decal sheet and see about high-res scanning and resizing it...)
Old Navy
10-16-2014, 21:23
Interesting lineup: the Me.410 is certainly an odd choice. Did they think they needed an Axis plane with 2 engines to match the P-38 :confused:
Karl
I'd bet money on that!! An N1K George or a Fw-190A would have been better choices.
Jim Y
milcoll73
10-16-2014, 21:25
This would not be true of Italian planes, though. I mean, everyone wishes they were Italian, no? ;)
i dont know about that weve got a couple of the italian planes at our store and no ones ever expressed any interest in even looking at them let alone buying them.
Flying Officer Kyte
10-17-2014, 00:34
i dont know about that weve got a couple of the italian planes at our store and no ones ever expressed any interest in even looking at them let alone buying them.
Which Italian planes are they Phillip?
Rob.
milcoll73
10-17-2014, 01:48
Which Italian planes are they Phillip?
Rob.
both of the Reggiane Re.2001 Falco IIs and an RSI Dewoitine D.520 (Stella).
Flying Officer Kyte
10-17-2014, 03:38
both of the Reggiane Re.2001 Falco IIs and an RSI Dewoitine D.520 (Stella).
The next question is will your store ship abroad Phillip, as I would love to get my hands on a Stella.
Rob.
Oberst Hajj
10-17-2014, 03:38
And now I'm starting to worry about supply lines on three more Doolittle B-25s for a special project... one of the Raiders is a neighbor, and I'm still thinking about re-marking a Doolittle and asking someone here to make up custom plane and crew-management cards so I can present him a custom miniature of his old bird. (Why do I need three? One stock Doolittle for the memory of his old boss... and a second repaint for myself, which I'm hoping to get him to sign the card for.)
I've got 6 in stock right now and as of Sept 9 2014 they were not sold out at the Ares level.
Marechallannes
10-17-2014, 03:46
Two versions of the Tojo:
Ki-44-II Otsu (Ki-44-IIb)
Standard armament reduced to just two 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine guns in the nose. Optional provision for two 40 mm (1.57 in) Ho-301 cannons in the wings. These were not always installed and due to disappointing combat results once installed they were sometimes removed again and two 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine guns mounted in their place. This variant still had the Type 89 telescopic gunsight as standard. 394 produced (s/n 1356-1749).
Ki-44-II Hei (Ki-44-IIc)
Standard armament of four 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine guns, two in the nose and two in the wings. Type 100 reflector gunsight mounted as standard. 427 produced (s/n 1750-2176).
Will the Ki-44-IIb have only 2xMGs or will we see the version with the additional 4cm cannons? :slysmile:
Gallo Rojo
10-17-2014, 05:13
[M]y comment was about the Yak and Hurricane as a group. Both those minis were the poorest sellers of their Series to my knowledge. In fact, I've only sold 15 Yak-1 minis (both pilots combined) in two years. (...) Compare that with only two of the P-51D minis selling 37 in just a few months. In fact, I've sold one less P-51D (all three pilots combined) in a couple of months than I have all of Series 3 minis combined in almost two years.
P-51 is a really sexy b!tch. I would expect it to sell like iced lemonade in a hot summer day.
Soviet Hurrican was, uhm, well, just ugly... and Yak-1 is a somewhat obscure plane -- for the average potential customer I mean; even I myself wondered why not a MiG instead.
My guess is that if you give the customers some sexier soviet planes they will go for them -- of course not in the numbers of American or German planes.
A Lavochkin La-7 that can be matched up against a Foke Wulf-Fw 190-A, or a IL-2 Sturmovik on a special dive bomber series can be a good or at least a decent sell -- the later the Soviet airplane that every American customer know about at least.
Honest question: Did the Yak-1 sold poorly than the Dewoitine D.520?
Gallo Rojo
10-17-2014, 05:18
Of course no dates or pilots for these yet and I've been told this list is subject to change:
Vought F4U Corsair
http://www.ww2warbirds.net/ww2pics/ww2vougf4u-1.jpg
Well this one is one of my favorite fighter ever...
do we know if we'll get this early version or the later (sort of) bubble top one?
If we get the early version it would be nice to have Boyington's plane
But later version can be pushed even into Korean War scenarios
milcoll73
10-17-2014, 05:41
The next question is will your store ship abroad Phillip, as I would love to get my hands on a Stella.
Rob.
i can ask dave (the owner) but hes not to keen on doing overseas mail order sales so i cant promise anything :(
Ezekiel, I think you are counting apples and pears in one group.
D.520 and Yak-1 were released in times where the main goal was "early years" of WWII. This ended with series 4 and from the series 5 the main topic is 1944/45. Most of iconic USSR (or "sellers sweets") planes are from late years of war, so it is clear there are not as many Soviet planes as Germans or British. And as I am sad there are almost Eastern front planes right now, I understand why P-38, P-47, P-51D, Corsair etc. - Ares must know they will sell their minis before next experimental series like the series 3 was. And if I like it or not, USA is the biggest market for them.
Slowly, slowly catch you monkey... (in other words: let's be patient and support Ares with our :money: for their :minis:)
Oberst Hajj
10-17-2014, 06:20
P-51 is a really sexy b!tch. I would expect it to sell like iced lemonade in a hot summer day.
Soviet Hurrican was, uhm, well, just ugly... and Yak-1 is a somewhat obscure plane -- for the average potential customer I mean; even I myself wondered why not a MiG instead.
My guess is that if you give the customers some sexier soviet planes they will go for them -- of course not in the numbers of American or German planes.
A Lavochkin La-7 that can be matched up against a Foke Wulf-Fw 190-A, or a IL-2 Sturmovik on a special dive bomber series can be a good or at least a decent sell -- the later the Soviet airplane that every American customer know about at least.
Honest question: Did the Yak-1 sold poorly than the Dewoitine D.520?
I don't have any sales data on the Dewoitine, so I can't really say. I can tell you I've never seen one on the table here in the US. Mine has never even been taken out of the storage tray and I'd be surprised if the deck is not still sealed.
I'm not a history buff, just an aviation enthusiast... and I could not match any Russian planes to their names with the exception of maybe the LI-2, but that one is iffy as well. Russian planes, and the whole Eastern Front really, are sadly a niche market for an already niche game.
If I was running Ares, I'd release those minis, but only as Special dual and quad packs and only about every 2-3 years for new releases. I'd be pumping out German/US/British planes at the rate of one new plane every other month. lol
Oberst Hajj
10-17-2014, 06:21
Well this one is one of my favorite fighter ever...
do we know if we'll get this early version or the later (sort of) bubble top one?
If we get the early version it would be nice to have Boyington's plane
But later version can be pushed even into Korean War scenarios
I've got no idea at this point.
Oberst Hajj
10-17-2014, 06:22
Two versions of the Tojo:
Ki-44-II Otsu (Ki-44-IIb)
Standard armament reduced to just two 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine guns in the nose. Optional provision for two 40 mm (1.57 in) Ho-301 cannons in the wings. These were not always installed and due to disappointing combat results once installed they were sometimes removed again and two 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine guns mounted in their place. This variant still had the Type 89 telescopic gunsight as standard. 394 produced (s/n 1356-1749).
Ki-44-II Hei (Ki-44-IIc)
Standard armament of four 12.7 mm (.50 in) Ho-103 machine guns, two in the nose and two in the wings. Type 100 reflector gunsight mounted as standard. 427 produced (s/n 1750-2176).
Will the Ki-44-IIb have only 2xMGs or will we see the version with the additional 4cm cannons? :slysmile:
Since it would really be just a card change at this scale, I could see us getting one of each.
Will the Ki-44-IIb have only 2xMGs or will we see the version with the additional 4cm cannons? :slysmile:
Honestly: I expect to see two 4x-0.50s; and one of the -IIIs, either the IIIa with 4x 20mm, or -IIIb with 2 each 20mm [fuselage] and 37mm [wings]. The 40mms did not perform well enough to warrant a mini.
Marechallannes
10-17-2014, 13:55
Would be a good mixture.
I like the three different versions of the KI61, too.
I believe someone in Ares is already planning series 8. And I was wondering if there are general plans to cover Spanish Civil War and/or Winter War/Continuation War. Just think of I-16, Fiat CR.32, Fiat g.50, early Me 109s, Fokker D.XXI, I -153, Brewster Buffalo :minis:
SCW is not part of WW2 I agree, but it is its prelude, and WW and CW are. It would be nice to see some of those birds in action :clap:
Thunderbolt
10-18-2014, 00:56
I believe someone in Ares is already planning series 8. And I was wondering if there are general plans to cover Spanish Civil War and/or Winter War/Continuation War. Just think of I-16, Fiat CR.32, Fiat g.50, early Me 109s, Fokker D.XXI, I -153, Brewster Buffalo :minis:
SCW is not part of WW2 I agree, but it is its prelude, and WW and CW are. It would be nice to see some of those birds in action :clap:
I second that, Nemanja! With release of Buffallo, I-16 and I-153 we will have a lot of conflicts covered: Spanish Civil War, Winter War 39-40, early Barbarossa, early Pacific and with addition of Ki-27 Nate we will have also China War and Nomonhan Incident 39. That's a lot of nice scenario possibilities!
Thunderbolt
10-18-2014, 01:30
I can tell you I've never seen one on the table here in the US. Mine has never even been taken out of the storage tray and I'd be surprised if the deck is not still sealed.
I guess it is just because players in US never researched the possibility. I agree, they were not used as often as Spitfires or Warhawks, but you can find possible scenarios for them. Some ideas: Battle of France (check excellent Battle of France scenario by our Czech colleaugues in WGS AAR section), Syria-Lebanon campaign'41 (British against Vichy France) where you can throw them against Gladiators, Hurricanes and Warhawks or (with little repainting) you can use them for bombing raids over Sofia (Bulgarian D.520 against american bombers).
I'm not a history buff, just an aviation enthusiast... and I could not match any Russian planes to their names with the exception of maybe the LI-2, but that one is iffy as well. Russian planes, and the whole Eastern Front really, are sadly a niche market for an already niche game.
For Li-2 I'm not surprised, as it is just licensed Dakota DC-3 (american plane in fact). But Eastern Front is one of the most important fronts of WW2 (if not the most important). This is the place where Wehrmaht and Luftwaffe power was broken in 1942 and 1943 and German armies were bleeding most. Everyting after was just delivering further killing blows.
If I was running Ares, I'd release those minis, but only as Special dual and quad packs and only about every 2-3 years for new releases. I'd be pumping out German/US/British planes at the rate of one new plane every other month. lol
Unfortunately I must agree. For a company sales results prevails. But that's even more strange to me that Ares decided to release Me-410 or Ki-44. I'm even wondering if I buy one piece of any of them. They as much niche planes as D.520 or Italian Falco II. Take P-39 Airacobra or I-16 instead, and you'll have sales hits. My counter goes as much as 8x P-39 needed and 10x I-16 needed in my collection ;-)
OldGuy59
10-18-2014, 10:06
I believe someone in Ares is already planning series 8. And I was wondering if there are general plans to cover Spanish Civil War and/or Winter War/Continuation War. Just think of I-16, Fiat CR.32, Fiat g.50, early Me 109s, Fokker D.XXI, I -153, Brewster Buffalo :minis:
SCW is not part of WW2 I agree, but it is its prelude, and WW and CW are. It would be nice to see some of those birds in action :clap:
Has anyone looked at the latest WFG release? There are at least two "after war" Snipes in that release. Although, from what I'm finding, just about any plane from mid-Great War on is a candidate for the Russian Civil War. Ares is already extending coverage of WWI, why not WWII? Hmmm... How well will those Snipes sell? Repaints, anyone?
I guess it is just because players in US never researched the possibility. I agree, they were not used as often as Spitfires or Warhawks, but you can find possible scenarios for them. Some ideas: Battle of France (check excellent Battle of France scenario by our Czech colleaugues in WGS AAR section), Syria-Lebanon campaign'41 (British against Vichy France) where you can throw them against Gladiators, Hurricanes and Warhawks or (with little repainting) you can use them for bombing raids over Sofia (Bulgarian D.520 against american bombers).
For Li-2 I'm not surprised, as it is just licensed Dakota DC-3 (american plane in fact). But Eastern Front is one of the most important fronts of WW2 (if not the most important). This is the place where Wehrmaht and Luftwaffe power was broken in 1942 and 1943 and German armies were bleeding most. Everyting after was just delivering further killing blows.
Unfortunately I must agree. For a company sales results prevails. But that's even more strange to me that Ares decided to release Me-410 or Ki-44. I'm even wondering if I buy one piece of any of them. They as much niche planes as D.520 or Italian Falco II. Take P-39 Airacobra or I-16 instead, and you'll have sales hits. My counter goes as much as 8x P-39 needed and 10x I-16 needed in my collection ;-)
Go by movie releases in North America, or TV Series, and most Western audiences barely know that there was any fighting East of the Elbe River. Off the top of my head, I can think of two movies that covered that side of the war (Cross of Iron and Enemy at the Gates). I'm not a WWII movie buff, but I'm probably more interested in them than the average public.
I also agree that there was significant events on the Eastern Front. Look at the ace tallies for the Germans that flew there. Their numbers are unbelievable, compared to any other country's pilots. Some exceedingly heavy combat must have happened there, and I don't have a frame of reference for it. It should have a significant component in Ares releases based on numbers. Now I'm going to have to look at numbers of planes, and sortie rates for that front. Anyone got those on hand?
The sad fact in this discussion is, despite all the above comments, I won't likely buy any Eastern Front aircraft, as not enough Canadians flew there. I am pretending to stick to Battle of Britain planes, and really resisting any spead to the MTO (my first Air Force squadron, when I transferred to the Air Force in 1982, was 417 RCAF "Desert Rats" Squadron). This mentality exactly backs up the niche market comments above.
Marechallannes
10-18-2014, 10:26
... But Eastern Front is one of the most important fronts of WW2 (if not the most important). This is the place where Wehrmaht and Luftwaffe power was broken in 1942 and 1943 and German armies were bleeding most. Everyting after was just delivering further killing blows.
We're going here in a wrong direction.
WoG is an game that deals with aerial combat and the most intersting aerial fights were BoB, Midway & the carrier battles and the conqest of air superiority over Western Europe.
The Luftwaffe wasn't broken by the Russians.
This job was definitely done by the Western Allies from 1943 - mid 1944.
Although outnumbered the Luftwaffe held the Russians for years at bay. Stukas, German out-dated med bombers and ground attack planes opertated at the Eastern front till 1945.
OldGuy59
10-18-2014, 12:43
We're going here in a wrong direction.
... the most intersting aerial fights were BoB, Midway & the carrier battles and the conqest of air superiority over Western Europe.
The Luftwaffe wasn't broken by the Russians.
...
Sven,
The victors write the history books. Russia wasn't (isn't) motivated to write about their losses, only their victories. If German pilots were racking up the kill tallies they claim at the end of the war, it was a slaughter on the Eastern Front.
But they did write about Kursk. Surprisingly, there isn't a movie about the biggest tank battle in history. Oh! No Americans. Right. Not important, then. Battle of the Bulge? A few Americans involved in that. And they won, too. Good movies to be made from that.
So, who did the analysis of the air battles in the East? Who has written about the defense of Stalingrad, or the air lifts to relieve trapped German armies? Who says there weren't significant air battles in Russia? The people who lost pilots in droves. Perhaps we are missing a big piece of the picture? Or it may have been a long-term, continuous meat-grinder of a fight, with no particular single battle. Still, it must have been significant in pilots and planes, and therefore a big part of the air war in Europe.
My nickel.
Thunderbolt
10-18-2014, 13:09
Hello guys,
I've made some reasearch on the topic, since I was really curious what can be found on the internet. Apart of some rather not significant, general statement I found also an analysis, which gives quite nice overview. The figures below come from “Luftwaffe” by Williamson Murray, a British author. His sources for the losses were the actual German records sent by each Jagdgeschwader to Luftwaffe Headquarters and for the eyes of the Luftwaffe Commanders only. They are not based on either Allied or Soviet claims of aircraft destroyed. The figures are not always complete, however enough is there to shed light on the realities of who and where losses were inflicted. I hope this will be as interesting for you guys as it was for me :)
And yes Sven, your're right :salute:. It seems that Luftwaffe was bleeding on the West, while Wehrmaht was bleeding on the East.
1940 --------------------------------------
Total German Operational Strength May 1940 (Operational strength is the aircraft actually ready to fly, not including aircraft in repair or depots)
Fighters: 1369
Others: 4029
Total: 5398
Total German Aircraft losses due to enemy action May-September 1940 (Invasion of France and Battle of Britain):
Fighters: 871
Others: 1442
Total: 2313
Total German Aircraft losses due to enemy action October-December 1940 (Night Blitz of Britain):
Fighters: 40
Bombers: 140
Total German Fighter Pilot casualties. (Casualties include Deaths, Serious Woundings, and Captures. Fighter Pilot casualties are to be differentiated from Aircraft losses which can be replaced)
May-June 1940 (Battle of France): 169
July-September 1940 (Battle of Britain): 521
You will notice the big increase in German Pilot Casualties during the Battle of Britain. This was due to the fact the Jagdwaffe were flying over hostile territory at extreme range.
1941 --------------------------------------
Total German Operational Strength January 1941
Fighters: 1339
Others: 3008
Total: 4347
Average German Operational Strength versus Soviet Union June-November 1941
Fighters: 738 (55% of Total Jan. Operational strength)
Other: 1724
Total: 2462 (57% of Total Jan. Operational strength)
Total German Aircraft Losses due to enemy action January-December 1941 (not including November, figures N/A)
Fighters: 868
Other: 1981
Total: 2849
Percentage of German Aircraft lost Monthly, All Fronts January-December 1941 (Total / Fighters)
January: 2.6% / 2.1%
February: 3.6% / 3.6%
March: 4.9% / 4.7%
April: 7.2% / 6.4%
May: 7.5% / 6.8%
June: 11.6% / 14.2%
July: 16.1% / 22.9%
August: 9.8% / 13.4%
September: 8.8% / 12.6%
October: 7.7% / 6.0%
November: 6.5% / N/A
December: 7.1% / 10.2%
You can see from the above chart the German losses are quite small when their only active Front is the English Channel. Losses begin to rise in April with the Balkan Campaigns in Yugoslavia and Greece versus the British Expeditionary Forces there, as well as the commitment to North Africa with Rommel. The Germans had significant losses on Crete, especially in Transport and Bombers. With the invasion of the Soviet Union losses jump very significantly in the first few months. But after the Soviet airforce is to all intents destroyed, the losses begin to reduce again. The chart shows also that German Fighter losses with the invasion of the Soviet Union are proportionately a little higher than overall losses.
1942 --------------------------------------
German Operational Strength January 1942
Fighters: 1324
Other: 3809
Total: 5133
German Monthly Total Aircraft Losses All Fronts January to May 1942.
January: 428
February: 415
March: 564
April: 525
May: 772
This Chart shows the heaviest losses begin March with the failed Counter-Offensive by the Soviets at Kharkov. From now on, the split over fronts became available:
Total German Monthly Aircraft Losses June to December 1942 by Front (all Aircraft)
Month----Eastern Front----All other Fronts
June--------350------------------299
July---------438------------------386
August------436------------------371
September---332------------------206
October-----200------------------324
November----224------------------595
December----408------------------366
Total------2388-----------------2547
You can see the losses on the Eastern Front are higher during the Summer ’42 offensive, but losses in the West are higher in October and November during the fighting at El Alamein and during the invasion of North Africa, “Torch”. Eastern Front losses then move ahead again during December when the airlift to Stalingrad was at its height. There were significant Transport and Bomber losses at that time.
1943 --------------------------------------
German Operational Aircraft Strength February 1943
Fighters: 1360
Others: 4014
Total: 5374
German Monthly Aircraft Losses in 1943 by Front. First number is total Aircraft losses/Second number is Fighter losses
Month----Eastern----Mediterranean----NW Europe
January---482/85-------282/124--------176/87
February--318/63-------206/89---------182/77
March-----314/100------308/140--------256/140
April-----238/67-------572/247--------256/143
May-------331/110------333/97---------331/183
June------249/85-------235/131--------313/157
July------558/201------711/246--------526/335
August----472/150------321/133--------625/248
September-338/99-------503/167--------522/276
October---279/94-------285/92---------530/281
November--194/45-------180/54---------529/281
December------------Not Available
Totals---3773/1099----3936/1520------4246/2208
In January the German losses are slightly higher on the Eastern Front than both the Mediterranean and Northwest Europe combined. This reflects the continued attempted airlift to Stalingrad. In February and march it equals on each of fronts. But after that losses versus the Western Allies become much more significant. Losses are very high during the close of the Tunisian Campaign, especially during the abortive attempted Air Supply phase. During the Kursk Offensive and subsequent Soviet Counter-Offensive the losses on Eastern front exceeds slightly losses on West, but are still less than those suffered during the Sicily invasion. Meanwhile as the 8th Air Force Bombing Offensive begins in July of ’43, the German losses in Northwest Europe begin to climb till they are largest portion of all losses. Notice especially the higher proportion of Fighters lost in Northwest Europe.
1944 --------------------------------------
Total German Operational Strength January 1944
Fighters: 1561
Others: 5180
Total: 6741
Out of these numbers 82% of fighter strength was concentrated in Western Europe. Unfortunately Murray’s book does not include real figures which show losses by Front during 1944. However eduacated guesses can be made.
Total Monthly German Aircraft Losses January-May 1944. First number is total Aircraft losses/Second number is Fighter losses.
January------991/473
February-------N/A
March-------1770/985
April-----------N/A
May---------1882/831
You can see the monthly losses are much higher than in earlier years. Since 82% of the German Fighter strength is concentrated against the Western Allies, the overwhelming majority of the fighter casualties are likely inflicted there.
German Fighter Pilot Casualties January to May 1944
January: 292
February: 434
March: 511
April: 447
May: 578
Comparing these Pilot losses with e.g. Battle of Britain period you can see the attrition has become enormous. This reflects the tremendous losses in the Battle for Germany when monthly losses were equal to pilot losses during whole Battle of Britain.
This is also reflected in Jagdgeschwader 26 Pilot Casualties by Year (JG26 were based in France and Germany versus the Western Allies. Sometimes called the Abbeville Boys)
1939: 2
1940: 51
1941: 64
1942: 69
1943: 149
1944: 249
1945: 110
You can see from this table that during the years when JG26 was only facing short range Spitfires and British medium bombers casualties were rather low. But with the introduction of the B-17 daylight raids and British night bombing offensive by heavy bombers and the nessesity to intercept these destructive and accurate formations, casualties skyrocket.
Well, well. What an impressive off-topic post I've prepared. Sorry for that :embarrass:
Speaking of Kursk movies, and speaking off-topic ( :) ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcekvQeHS6o
(Soviet 1969 movie about Kursk Battle).
Back on topic, I believe Eastern front gives interesting opportunities for various aerial scenarios (specially with usefull Stukas in 1945, as Sven mentioned). And I believe it's better to spend available slots on airplanes which have significant role in WW2 theatres of war. Soviet aviation, although not having major battle as BoB or Midway, has many interesting battles with different opponents, as mentioned in my and Rafal's posts. And if Belgian and French models exist, I guess Fins deserve some models too. :salute:
Zoe Brain
10-18-2014, 17:23
One problem with German loss figures - they tend to undercount. A destroyed Bf109E due to be replaced by a Bf109G would not be counted, for example. Before - 1 Bf109E, After 1 Bf109G - so strength remains constant, whether the plane is scrapped or shot down, and no loss recorded.
This explains some of the discrepancies between physical count of wrecked aircraft on the ground, and reported losses.
Diamondback
10-18-2014, 17:27
Sounds like the Royal Navy's sail-era administrative fiction of "break up to rebuild"... LOL (Basically, they committed a bit of fraud on Parliament by building new ships incorporating a little wood from the ships they were named after, and calling it "rebuild" rather than the new construction it technically was.)
I usually borrow a line from _Dilbert_ to explain "who won the War": "The Western Allies fought smarter; the Soviets fought harder". The West understood the Germans had generally-better ground forces; so avoided taking them on head-on whenever possible -- the bombing campaigns, the naval war, all these were the "second front". Stalin, being as much a "Landser" as Adolf ever was, couldn't see that (and even if he had: Better to let the capitalists and the Hitlerites bleed each other, than burn any of his own resources).
Marechallannes
10-19-2014, 01:01
One problem with German loss figures - they tend to undercount. A destroyed Bf109E due to be replaced by a Bf109G would not be counted, for example. Before - 1 Bf109E, After 1 Bf109G - so strength remains constant, whether the plane is scrapped or shot down, and no loss recorded.
This explains some of the discrepancies between physical count of wrecked aircraft on the ground, and reported losses.
:confused:
Of course you will not report your actual strengh and additional subtract the losses you had in the past.
Maybe I didn't understand this information, but it sounds like: "Oh, we lost a Bf.109-E with Lieutnant Bauer over the Channel. Thank God Fähnrich Müller with his new Bf.109G arrived today - so no loss at all." ;)
You always have to check where your data came from.
The most detailed and verivied data should be from the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe, because the Aillies/Soviets conquered Germany and had direct access to the Germann Geschwader chronicles and files.
I usually borrow a line from _Dilbert_ to explain "who won the War": "The Western Allies fought smarter; the Soviets fought harder". The West understood the Germans had generally-better ground forces; so avoided taking them on head-on whenever possible -- the bombing campaigns, the naval war, all these were the "second front". Stalin, being as much a "Landser" as Adolf ever was, couldn't see that (and even if he had: Better to let the capitalists and the Hitlerites bleed each other, than burn any of his own resources).
I think your giving both sides too much credit for thinking rather than reacting. The USSR fought a land war simply because it was a land power, and that was the war forced on it by politics and geography. while it can be argued that either side would have benefitted from better use of strategic air power, neither had the resources to develop it enough to make a major difference (though even a few raids of 30-50 B-17 equivalents against "Tankograd" or the rail net supplying it could of made some difference). The USSR had to fight harder for survival, but after Stalingrad, and esp. after Kursk, they used the principles of Deep Battle (developed in the 30s) with great success. This is a good example of "fighting smarter".
As for the West, I think it was more waiting for sufficient US ground forces to build up for D-Day; Churchill pushed for the Med theater and Italy. The USA wasn't enthused for that at all, though acknowledged the need for the Torch invasions, and clearing North Africa. If shipping was sufficient, they were ready for a '43 cross-channel invasion (which probably would have failed, due to force levels).
The bombing campaign was committed to because: 1) the Bomber Barons had convinced the those in charge that they could win the war with massed strategic bombing, and 2) it was a way to show that the west was actively fighting the war, and taking it to the Germans. It only worked, to the extent it did, because the USA had the resources to spend on it, and the other needs of the war (ground forces, convoy protection, the Pacific War etc.). The real net gain of the bombing campaign wasn't the loss of German production, but the diversion of resources to combat it; a few dozen divisions worth of men, guns and vehicles (imagine all those 88s on the Eastern Front!) plus aircraft.
Karl
Zoe Brain
10-19-2014, 02:45
The most detailed and verivied data should be from the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe, because the Aillies/Soviets conquered Germany and had direct access to the Germann Geschwader chronicles and files.
It was the discrepancy between these figures and actual number of destroyed obsolescent (due to be replaced) aircraft found on the ground that led to this conclusion. If you actually have a count of 5 left Ju-87B wings on the ground, but losses in the geschwader records show only 2 Ju-87s lost that day (but 13 aircrew KIA/MIA), and all aircraft on strength being Ju-87Rs, something's amiss.
Source: They Flew Hurricanes - Adrian Stewart.
This only happened when a geschwader was transitioning between types, and only applied to war-weary aircraft due to be scrapped.
Another problem is that often the records of retreating armies have gaps. Files get burnt to stop the enemy getting them rather than neatly forwarded to HQ. Allied Records in the Pacific theatre in 42 during the defence of Java and Malaya are mostly guesswork, similarly in the retreat in Greece. Axis Records from Tunisia are often just missing.
Blackronin
10-19-2014, 04:34
I am the last person to be considered as a USSR war effort fan and supporter, nor I am an Eastern Front fan, but air warfare over the EF is vastly underestimated and not known sufficiently. The WGS gaming possibilities are (IMHO) much better than the Western European theatre offers, for many reasons:
1. a greater variety of planes involved (including British and American LL types),
2. longer period of air activity (not just BoB, channel front and Air War over Germany),
3. one side plays the underdog (Soviet Forces) in the beginning, then slowly evolves into a superior one in numbers,
4. a greater variety of possible historical missions (ground attacks, to mention just one),
5. winter/summer conditions that can be modelled in the game scenarios.
I know I am not the only one to think that way. Honzo?
You've hit the nail.
Truth is the Eastern front isn't for everybody. There are too much mixed and wrong feelings in that front to be comfortable to play it detached of reality. And of course, for Western countries the area of operations Britain, it's Commonwealth and USA fought is obviously the preferred one.
I see Andrzej's points as big YES to Eastern front reason in gaming terms. And if we would mix feelings and playing, probably nobody never would play any wargame later than Napoleonic wars :)
The USSR fought a land war simply because it was a land power, and that was the war forced on it by politics and geography.
This is true; however, the manner in which they fought suggested a lack of deeper thought, at least until Zhukov and some of the other "new blood" came along. Perhaps when all one has is a hammer, everything looks like a nail; but there's a world of difference between hammering the nail in straight, bending it, and/or just whaling the s*** out of one's thumb. ;)
As for the West, I think it was more waiting for sufficient US ground forces to build up for D-Day; Churchill pushed for the Med theater and Italy. The USA wasn't enthused for that at all, though acknowledged the need for the Torch invasions, and clearing North Africa. If shipping was sufficient, they were ready for a '43 cross-channel invasion (which probably would have failed, due to force levels).
Again, the type of fight was forced on them by circumstances -- landfall in Europe was impractical, so landfall was made elsewhere; meanwhile, other methods were used to fight the foe, preferably fighting him where his was weakest (at sea, and in his infrastructure).
One of my multitude of alt-hists involves the West taking Corsica and Sardinia after Sicily, thereby laying the entire West Coast of Italy under contribution -- the Germans have no idea where the invasion will be going in. In this case: The invasion is in *northern* Italy -- one leg heads due north to the Swiss border, then west, to split France from Italy; the other heads east across the base of the peninsula, bypassing all those mountain ranges and threatening Kesselring's defenses from the direction opposite that they're facing. Meanwhile, a further invasion of Toulon is set up, using the same disinformation tactics used to convince the Germans Calais was going to be the invasion point.
The bombing campaign was committed to because: 1) the Bomber Barons had convinced the those in charge that they could win the war with massed strategic bombing, and 2) it was a way to show that the west was actively fighting the war, and taking it to the Germans. It only worked, to the extent it did, because the USA had the resources to spend on it, and the other needs of the war (ground forces, convoy protection, the Pacific War etc.). The real net gain of the bombing campaign wasn't the loss of German production, but the diversion of resources to combat it; a few dozen divisions worth of men, guns and vehicles (imagine all those 88s on the Eastern Front!) plus aircraft.
[nod] The ETO bombing campaign should have followed the same course as the 5th AF's in PTO -- forget the factories; let them build stuff, then blow it up en-route to the front. All that time, effort, and resources, and they never get to actually use it.... >:)
Diamondback
10-19-2014, 20:33
Not to mention the whole "Join RAF Bomber Command, See Exciting New Places, Get Shot Down by Jerry and Incinerated by Your Own Colleagues" factor... frankly, a decent-sized chunk of the high command (ESPECIALLY SOE, but that's another rant) should have stood trial at Nuremberg alongside their enemies.
milcoll73
10-19-2014, 22:02
For Li-2 I'm not surprised, as it is just licensed Dakota DC-3 (american plane in fact). But Eastern Front is one of the most important fronts of WW2 (if not the most important). This is the place where Wehrmaht and Luftwaffe power was broken in 1942 and 1943 and German armies were bleeding most. Everyting after was just delivering further killing blows.
you have to remember for the formative years of many of us american wog fans the soviet union was the "evil empire" (and, honestly, wasnt it) and therefor, the eastern front struggle was part of that and wasnt, and couldnt be dealt with as much as the western front or pacific front (not to mention japan and germany were being rehabilitated as an ally for the cold war) because to admit its heroism in ww2 is to diminish the possibility of maintaining them as an enemy "them" apart from "us". school curriculum is as much propaganda as anything and will always reflect prevailing views of the culture it is a part of (you should see it over here THESE DAYS, but DO NOT GET ME STARTED).
one of the big thrills for me with the fall of the soviet union was to be able to learn many of these stories id heard hints of for decades and in a big way (can you imagine enemy at the gates being made in say, the 60s, 70s or 80s?).
Sven,
The victors write the history books. Russia wasn't (isn't) motivated to write about their losses, only their victories. If German pilots were racking up the kill tallies they claim at the end of the war, it was a slaughter on the Eastern Front.
But they did write about Kursk. Surprisingly, there isn't a movie about the biggest tank battle in history. Oh! No Americans. Right. Not important, then. Battle of the Bulge? A few Americans involved in that. And they won, too. Good movies to be made from that.
So, who did the analysis of the air battles in the East? Who has written about the defense of Stalingrad, or the air lifts to relieve trapped German armies? Who says there weren't significant air battles in Russia? The people who lost pilots in droves. Perhaps we are missing a big piece of the picture? Or it may have been a long-term, continuous meat-grinder of a fight, with no particular single battle. Still, it must have been significant in pilots and planes, and therefore a big part of the air war in Europe.
My nickel.
there should be a major movie about kursk but with as few german panzers (the russians were TOO good at their work) as there are remaining itd have to be mostly CGI. imagine how much itd cost and what a pain production would be. thats probably why it hasnt been made.
Speaking of Kursk movies, and speaking off-topic ( :) ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcekvQeHS6o
(Soviet 1969 movie about Kursk Battle).
Back on topic, I believe Eastern front gives interesting opportunities for various aerial scenarios (specially with usefull Stukas in 1945, as Sven mentioned). And I believe it's better to spend available slots on airplanes which have significant role in WW2 theatres of war. Soviet aviation, although not having major battle as BoB or Midway, has many interesting battles with different opponents, as mentioned in my and Rafal's posts. And if Belgian and French models exist, I guess Fins deserve some models too. :salute:
is there an english dubbed version for us poor monolinguistic americans:(?
I usually borrow a line from _Dilbert_ to explain "who won the War": "The Western Allies fought smarter; the Soviets fought harder". The West understood the Germans had generally-better ground forces; so avoided taking them on head-on whenever possible -- the bombing campaigns, the naval war, all these were the "second front". Stalin, being as much a "Landser" as Adolf ever was, couldn't see that (and even if he had: Better to let the capitalists and the Hitlerites bleed each other, than burn any of his own resources).
nice, very succinct
Phillip,
unfortunately, as I know, there's no Еnglish dubbed version...
Thunderbolt
10-20-2014, 00:08
you have to remember for the formative years of many of us american wog fans the soviet union was the "evil empire" (and, honestly, wasnt it) and therefor, the eastern front struggle was part of that
Well, that's the point. It's just the matter not to mix gameplay nad feelings/politics. Believe me, being Polish I'd have more that enough reasons not to play any German or Russian WW2 planes, but I consider game as a game, nothing more.
because to admit its heroism in ww2 is to diminish the possibility of maintaining them as an enemy "them" apart from "us". school curriculum is as much propaganda as anything and will always reflect prevailing views of the culture it is a part of (you should see it over here THESE DAYS, but DO NOT GET ME STARTED).
Well, I was behind Iron Curtain THESE DAYS, yet I was able to research what's happened on the European West Front and in the Pacific, for instance. Don't tell me that it was worse in US than here, 'cause that brings me big question where actualy this "democratic, free world" is.
But stop about politics and coming back to game. Maybe it's time for you guys in US to change that approach and jump into some more oriental scenarios, like EF ones for example?
(can you imagine enemy at the gates being made in say, the 60s, 70s or 80s?).
Well, difucult to assess from here, but probably not (by the way, one of my favourite war-movies, far better that "Saving Private Ryan" to me). If you want to know about what was the reality here in the East just after the war I recomend you Polish film "Róża" ("Rose" in English). It's about the masurian people who were living on the territory of German East Prussia, and now they are in Polish borders. They've been always treated as "polish scum" by Germans, but after polish communists came into power, they were considered as "german traitors". Really moving story.
The trailer with english subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4vgXbCr13E
and the other one, without subtitles unfortunately: http://vimeo.com/36834138
milcoll73
10-20-2014, 01:23
Well, that's the point. It's just the matter not to mix gameplay nad feelings/politics. Believe me, being Polish I'd have more that enough reasons not to play any German or Russian WW2 planes, but I consider game as a game, nothing more.
Well, I was behind Iron Curtain THESE DAYS, yet I was able to research what's happened on the European West Front and in the Pacific, for instance. Don't tell me that it was worse in US than here, 'cause that brings me big question where actualy this "democratic, free world" is.
But stop about politics and coming back to game. Maybe it's time for you guys in US to change that approach and jump into some more oriental scenarios, like EF ones for example?
Well, difucult to assess from here, but probably not (by the way, one of my favourite war-movies, far better that "Saving Private Ryan" to me). If you want to know about what was the reality here in the East just after the war I recomend you Polish film "Róża" ("Rose" in English). It's about the masurian people who were living on the territory of German East Prussia, and now they are in Polish borders. They've been always treated as "polish scum" by Germans, but after polish communists came into power, they were considered as "german traitors". Really moving story.
The trailer with english subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4vgXbCr13E
and the other one, without subtitles unfortunately: http://vimeo.com/36834138
sorry if my post implied anything about politics or such that wasnt my intent and i dont think thats the issue. i was commenting more about reasons the general lack of interest-sales. it has more to do with how the history was presented (or not) in our schools. lack of information = ignorance=lack of interest=slow sales nothing more or less. it has nothing to do with the politics (other than of those that chose the curriculum) or the rightness or wrongness of the issue.
as a ww2 history buff i, myself was able to glean quite a bit about the eastern front but that represents a lot of personal study by myself and goes far beyond what the average student was presented in class. most of my peers had little interest in ww2 period let alone specific areas of it. thats in part why my hobby is my hobby ( i collect militaria from ww1 and ww2) to bring reminders of ww2 alive out of the grainy black and white photos that represent most peoples only link with those bygone events and remind them what the vets endured and how truly awful and horrific those wars were.
my comments werent meant to imply that educational system in the us at that time was worse or more restrictive than behind the iron curtain. they werent. its just that the info simply wasnt taught to students. much information was available but you had to dig it out yourself. you also have to remember in the 70s the aftermath of the vietnam war caused anything military or war history related to be shunned. those that showed any interest in it were considered to be war mongering jingoists. so many students didnt bother to learn anything about it. my comments about the curricula THESE DAYS have to do with what the liberal left are pushing as education under the aegis of "common core". ill not inflict that particular rant here.
i know a scant bit about the subject because of stalin not wanting to give up the part of poland he seized in 1939 and president roosevelt giving in to him and agreeing to it. so polands borders were 200 miles west and and german (perceived or otherwise) citizens were forcibly relocated further west. im always willing to learn more however:).
Thunderbolt
10-20-2014, 03:14
Neither I intended to go into political discussion. In fact I must admit it happens in Europe as well, I mean a lot of youg people not interested in history (nor WW2 in particular). That's why I try to bring pieces of history to them as often as possible, being that during a trip or a game. That's how they learn about it. Take for instance the Battle of Thermopylae. I bet more people is aware of it now then before the film "300" was made, even if it is just based on comic book. That's simply how it is now.
I'd gladly deliver some information about what has happened in Europe's Wild East :p Some very interesting stories are still to be discovered here.
As for the film itself, I do not know if it is available in US. I could find it on the web, as it is quite new one (released three years ago), so still copyright protected. If it is possible just take a chance to watch it. It stays in mind for long.
...
I consider game as a game, nothing more.
...
And that's the point - to play and have fun. Personally, I take every wargame with a grain of roleplay, too :guns:
milcoll73
10-20-2014, 08:58
And that's the point - to play and have fun. Personally, I take every wargame with a grain of roleplay, too :guns:
me to even though im considered a bit silly for it. :p nothing wrong with being a bit silly at times lol:D
Thunderbolt
10-20-2014, 09:57
nothing wrong with being a bit silly at times lol:D
Good point! :thumbsup: I have to remember that!
It's a sad comment on where society is that *any* subject risks becoming The P-Word.
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
Well, I was behind Iron Curtain THESE DAYS, yet I was able to research what's happened on the European West Front and in the Pacific, for instance. Don't tell me that it was worse in US than here, 'cause that brings me big question where actualy this "democratic, free world" is.
Actually, it was extremely difficult to research the Russian POV of The Great Patriotic War. Most, if not all, casual readers, and most academics, were reading the memoirs of the Germans, with very little counter-point from the Russian side. And a lot we did get was propaganda and disinformation, and the actual stuff got lost in that, and was often not believed. Some things got through, but you really had to pick at it to find some facts.
Karl
OldGuy59
10-20-2014, 13:26
Hello guys,
I've made some reasearch on the topic, since I was really curious what can be found on the internet. Apart of some rather not significant, general statement I found also an analysis, which gives quite nice overview. The figures below come from “Luftwaffe” by Williamson Murray, a British author. His sources for the losses were the actual German records sent by each Jagdgeschwader to Luftwaffe Headquarters and for the eyes of the Luftwaffe Commanders only. They are not based on either Allied or Soviet claims of aircraft destroyed. The figures are not always complete, however enough is there to shed light on the realities of who and where losses were inflicted. I hope this will be as interesting for you guys as it was for me :)
And yes Sven, your're right :salute:. It seems that Luftwaffe was bleeding on the West, while Wehrmaht was bleeding on the East.
...
Well, well. What an impressive off-topic post I've prepared. Sorry for that :embarrass:
Rafal,
There is lots of info in your post, directly in line with my inquiry of the air war on the Eastern Front.
However, it is only half the picture. It speaks of the losses by the German side. What I would like to have is the other side, as well, so we can see, perhaps, if there were big battles over the time on the front.
Are there similar air battles, unrecognized to date, that deserve study and scenarios? Perhaps there was a "Kursk of the Air"?
With this release of planes we won't be recreating them, unfortunately.
Nightbomber
10-20-2014, 13:38
I shall track the posts above later on, but when we speak about intensity of aerial warfare over the EF one thing comes to my mind. All of the Bubi Hartmann's victories were achieved right there...352 and just 7 one day, 7th of July 1943 during the battle of Kursk. These numbers speak for themselves.
OldGuy59
10-20-2014, 15:05
...
I also agree that there was significant events on the Eastern Front. Look at the ace tallies for the Germans that flew there. Their numbers are unbelievable, compared to any other country's pilots. Some exceedingly heavy combat must have happened there, and I don't have a frame of reference for it. It should have a significant component in Ares releases based on numbers. Now I'm going to have to look at numbers of planes, and sortie rates for that front. Anyone got those on hand?
...
... but when we speak about intensity of aerial warfare over the EF one thing comes to my mind. All of the Bubi Hartmann's victories were achieved right there...352 and just 7 one day, 7th of July 1943 during the battle of Kursk. These numbers speak for themselves.
Exactly, Andy! Perhaps there was a shooting gallery over Kursk. The Russians won't be writing that story, and not enough Germans or records survived to do that analysis, except cryptically.
Exactly, Andy! Perhaps there was a shooting gallery over Kursk. The Russians won't be writing that story, and not enough Germans or records survived to do that analysis, except cryptically.
It was an intensive air combat situation over Kursk; the problem for the Germans was that the "shooting gallery" shot back.
According to the wiki article, the Luftwaffe lost between 524 and 621 planes (this includes the counter-offensives).
The USSR lost possibly as many as 1100 planes.
Karl
Nightbomber
10-20-2014, 15:28
It was an intensive air combat situation over Kursk; the problem for the Germans was that the "shooting gallery" shot back.
According to the wiki article, the Luftwaffe lost between 524 and 621 planes (this includes the counter-offensives).
The USSR lost possibly as many as 1100 planes.
Karl
And now who's gonna tell me this fray does not deserve to be replayed in WoG? :eek:
And now who's gonna tell me this fray does not deserve to be replayed in WoG? :eek:
Not me. If I paint them, will you come to my house to play? ;) :)
Karl
Marechallannes
10-20-2014, 22:36
And now who's gonna tell me this fray does not deserve to be replayed in WoG? :eek:
...to be replayed in WoG?
The customer does.
You can fill boxes with Eastern Front AIM minatures but Ares will not produce Russian planes before we get the badly needed US planes and their opponents.
Those planes simply represent the Allied air superiority that was hardly won over Western Europe, North Africa and the Pacific.
You have a broad variety of scenarios there, much more options - from carrier battles to torpedo attacks and massive bomber offensives versus industries & cities, etc. You have those small remains of chivalry from WWI. You have this good versus evil feeling and maybe a better information, movie presence and detailed knowledge because of the access to Allied & Axis archives during the cold war, unlike Russian archives.
What feeling offers us the Air War at the Eastern front? A fascist and a communist system that fought each others in an inhuman way. An air war that concentrates mainly on support of ground troops.
To bail out for German pilots was mostly a death sentence by Partisans or the inhospitable land. Same for Russians pilots who suffered so much by a wrong attack doctrine or bad training. Of course their chances weren't better when getting imprisoned.
I like to play Eastern front scenarios, but if you ask me about the Ares Games planes that should be released the next years, Russians planes have no priority.
But I would buy them anyways, because I like the miniatures from Nexus & Ares.
That's an important difference, release & buy, because in former threads I always was a fan of uncommon planes like the last Biplanes and Beaufighters.
Bad and good feeling (or ideology) in wargame is not important, at least for me. If ideology would have that impact, why anyone would buy (and play with) ancient Romans? Basically, they were the bad guys of their time. Or why would anyone ever play national-socialist side, for example? I still stand firm that Eastern front should be released in some (close) future series. And we do have two Soviet airplane models present. One homemade and one Land-Lease. It shows that Ares doesn't considers Eastern Front. However, Eastern front isn't covered in term of main planes that fought there, and that hole should be filled, combined with adding some tactical Soviet bombers.
There are, as I mentioned before, many interesting wars combining early Soviet planes, and two series, carefully designed, could cover Spanish Civil War (many Americans fought there on Republican side, if that's of importance), Winter/Continuation wars and even early WW2. There's Khalkin Gol (Nomonhan incident), there are fights over Poland in 1939. If their idea was to concentrate over major theatres of war, they shouldn't release Belgian and French airplanes. Not even Soviet ones, as they started a theatre which is now unfinished.
So, if Ares would use it's resources smartly, not spending them on planes not necessary at the moment (as Me 410 unfortunately is), lots of new possibilities opens in next few years.
AIM models you mentioned (or Shapeways, on that matter) are good substitute. But, to get them on tabletop, you have to paint them first, find appropriate decals or even design and print your own ones. Than you have to (have) design(ed) and print(ed) airplane card and to by stands an peg. Of course, true fan wouldn't mind it :) , but it's better to get your stuff pre-painted and ready to play.
Speaking of which (I was reluctant to write this, as I'm not sure about Ares' actual interest in that market), but decals for certain wars/thetares could help.
rote Flügel
10-21-2014, 05:36
I may get a dozen F4Us as they would make great repaint fodder, I have a good few books with carrier markings for these. Be great for a pacific campaign.
Glad to see they finally came out with the Corsair.
Btw, does anyone has experience with those:
http://www.diecastairplane.com/store/p/132206-TBD-1-Devastator-Set-of-4-1-200-Includes-decals.html
Oberst Hajj
10-21-2014, 06:47
If their idea was to concentrate over major theatres of war, they shouldn't release Belgian and French airplanes. Not even Soviet ones, as they started a theatre which is now unfinished.
It was a Nexus policy to try and work in as many nationalities as possible in a release. That early on, I don't think they had a large enough data source to know that sales were really bad for WGS here in the US (their largest market). WWII is probably the most popular historical wargame era over here and Nexus was failing at it pretty bad. Once Ares took over and started to get some other own series to market, we started to see the switch to more main stream aircraft. They understand that in order for WGS to survive, they have to get these mainstream planes out there, and fast. Do they make mistakes in these releases, you bet. But if you really look at the long term business and gaming plan they are putting into place, their choices are really not that odd.
Yes, Nexus, sorry! But Ares did release two Soviets and one Chinese, nevertheless... But, never mind.
What do you think, Keith, is Ares (or even Aerodrome?) ready to deal with decals for theatres and wars available at Shapeways or AIM, for example, and not planned to be released by Ares? Decals, also, are very suitable for repainting existing miniatures released by Ares.
Oberst Hajj
10-21-2014, 08:11
Yes, Nexus, sorry! But Ares did release two Soviets and one Chinese, nevertheless... But, never mind.
I'd have to dig through my emails and such, but I'm fairly positive that Series 3 (and maybe even Series 4) was a holdover from Nexus. Meaning, that the research, selection, design and in some case, production steps (molds and tooling), were already started under Nexus. Ares continued with those selections due to the time and investment already made in them before taking over. I think the first truly Ares minis were the tactical bombers or maybe Series 4.
What do you think, Keith, is Ares (or even Aerodrome?) ready to deal with decals for theatres and wars available at Shapeways or AIM, for example, and not planned to be released by Ares? Decals, also, are very suitable for repainting existing miniatures released by Ares.
I can say 100% that Ares is notgoing to make and release decals for other manufacture's planes. In the early days, some of the Wings of War crew wanted/looked at including a small decal sheet with each mini to allow the customer to re-decal them to different aircraft. But that meant either the minis had to come incomplete (with no unit/pilot markings, it was not truly a completely pre-painted mini), or the customer had to actually repaint (or scrape off the original decals somehow) the mini. Both of which goes against the core marketing strategy of the game, pre-painted minis ready to play right out of the box.
I have been pushing Ares to design and release Squadron Packs. These would be 3 or 4 plane boxed sets that contain only planes from a single squadron. This would be the best type of product for them to try and release decals with. They could simply supply all 3-4 planes in basic squadron markings and give us a decal sheet of 6-8 pilots (so we want to buy two sets lol). WGS would be the perfect game for this due to the standardization of paint schemes and unit markings in WWII.
As for AA offering 1/200 scale decals for WGA, not very likely. Sells for WGS minis are still slow, even with a large portion of this community supporting the AA store :( After the initial release, sells drop of sharply for WGS. Factor that in with my WGS specific accessories being the lowest sellers of any of my products and slower than desired sells of WGF decals, it is not an option I will be exploring any time soon. Sorry.
Marechallannes
10-21-2014, 08:42
...
What do you think, Keith, is Ares (or even Aerodrome?) ready to deal with decals for theatres and wars available at Shapeways or AIM, for example, and not planned to be released by Ares? Decals, also, are very suitable for repainting existing miniatures released by Ares.
A question for Keith, but I want to answer, too.
I've got only two AIM miniatures and those are SBD Dauntless bombers. (Badly needed them for the Midway Rising Campaign.)
For an AIM miniature you need extra decals, paint, coat, a base , altitude pegs, movement cards and a plane card.
The result isn't that perfect at all.
This can't beat a Ares Games mini.
We have a few "artist" here like Thomatchef for example, who repaints a miniature and the result is better then an Ares mini but 90% of standart gamers (count me in of course) can't do this.
So I think a majority of gamers will wait for the Ares Games relases.
So why should Ares Games sells decals for another company's miniatures? ;)
Gallo Rojo
10-21-2014, 08:53
Those planes simply represent the Allied air superiority that was hardly won over Western Europe, North Africa and the Pacific.
You have a broad variety of scenarios there, much more options - from carrier battles to torpedo attacks and massive bomber offensives versus industries & cities, etc. You have those small remains of chivalry from WWI. You have this good versus evil feeling (...).
What feeling offers us the Air War at the Eastern front? A fascist and a communist system that fought each others in an inhuman way. An air war that concentrates mainly on support of ground troops.
An air war that concentrates mainly on support of ground troops sounds far more 'humane' than one that "[focused on breaking] the morale of the enemy civilian population, and in particular, the industrial workers" (Harris, Arthur Travers (1995). Despatch on war operations, 23rd February, 1942, to 8th May, 1945. Cass Series: Studies in Air Power 3. Psychology Press. p. 7. ISBN 978-0-7146-4692-3.)
True, Nazi Germany and Stalinist USSR were two un-human totalitarian regimes, I wont dispute that...
... but USA and Japan were two imperial powers in collision curse that clashed over the Pacific Theater ... and we can say the same about United Kingdom & France vs Fascist Italy (a wanna be new-Roman Emprire) and Germany
If I had to erase the most un-human historical components of this game, I should restrain buying and playing the Avro Lancaster and B-17 to begin with, and last but not least the Heinkel He-111 and the Ju-87 Stuka -- since all of them were used to bring enemy cities to ruins and kill civilian population.
but I wont! I already have two Stukas, a He-111 and a B-25 and I most definitely will buy a B-17 and a Lancaster... because this is a game I'm playing and I like the minis :)
I like to play Eastern front scenarios, but if you ask me about the Ares Games planes that should be released the next years, Russians planes have no priority.
So back to the (somewhat off topic) discussion about wether Ares should release some Soviet aircraft mini in the (near) future... I understand the marketing reasons (a) the American market is bigger, (b) American players like to have their planes first (c) there are a lot of Western Front planes to be released yet... but we are on the 7th series and the only Soviet plane released was the Yak-1 ... 3rd Late-War series and yet no La-7 in the horizon...
So, I understand Ares' reasons... but to certain extent they are 'reasons of choice'. I mean: there are many other games (from board games, miniatures, PC games, to flying simulators) that do cover the Eastern Front (extensively), and I'm guessing they are making money
So would it be too much asking for a Sturmovick and a Lavochkin La-7 in the near future? pretty please with sugar on top? :)
A question for Keith, but I want to answer, too.
I've got only two AIM miniatures and those are SBD Dauntless bombers. (Badly needed them for the Midway Rising Campaign.)
For an AIM miniature you need extra decals, paint, coat, a base , altitude pegs, movement cards and a plane card.
The result isn't that perfect at all.
This can't beat a Ares Games mini.
We have a few "artist" here like Thomatchef for example, who repaints a miniature and the result is better then an Ares mini but 90% of standart gamers (count me in of course) can't do this.
So I think a majority of gamers will wait for the Ares Games relases.
So why should Ares Games sells decals for another company's miniatures? ;)
Most of that I've written myself, already and I agree with you, specially when it comes to preparing "naked" miniatures. Diecasts are better made than anything average gamer can do.
But, Ares will probably, from everything discussed above, be uninterested to cover certain theatres/wars with diecast planes. Decals could have been different story (kind of expanding the market). But, decals are not included in Ares' market policy, as sole decks didn't either. My second hope was Aerodrome, but Keith written neither them don't plan to make decals, too... So, we're stuck at the beginning - "pressuring" Ares to deal with the East :)
Gallo Rojo
10-21-2014, 10:32
I think I will leave the 'Pimping Soviet Planes Campaign' out of this thread and open a new one just for that :)
What are you waiting for :)
Nightbomber
10-21-2014, 11:54
We can not influence Ares to issue specific planes that I would love to have. I can only regret they spend their resources to produce planes that bear some unusual cammo schemes (Winter He 111 Eastern Front only), black Bf 110 with no night fight rules, black Reggiane 2001 instead of much more popular Macchis 200 or 202! Why?) may have a very limited use (Dam buster Lanc, Me 410!) in more or less historical scenarios. It is nice they produce them, but if they spend their money to produce other, much more popular planes, they would do much better, IMHO.
Their American marketing oriented production is understadable only to some extent. I can not believe American players would not enjoy toying with planes other than American frontline ones. But this is their marketing choice. My expectations are opposite. Fortunately I have an immense fun painting and decalling planes. This job is a hobby and I love it. Sorry Ares, you did some wonderful WGF minis which I love, but your WGS range is below my (just mine), humble, expectations.
I see people talking about bombers so here is my 2 cents. I have the He 111 and B-25 which can be used in many games. Ordered the B-17 which again can be used. I did the Lancaster to have one and since they were only used in night bombing not many games can be had that way. For the next bombers they could make B-24/Betty/SM-79/Ju-88. I think these could be used in more games so would sell more.
Gallo Rojo
10-21-2014, 12:36
SM-79
I would love love love love a SM-79
I have them in 1/144 and have used them in a game.
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Picture of them in action.
Gallo Rojo
10-21-2014, 13:38
wow! eye-candy! aren't them too big for the regular 1/200 wow official? what brand are those? :)
I shall track the posts above later on, but when we speak about intensity of aerial warfare over the EF one thing comes to my mind. All of the Bubi Hartmann's victories were achieved right there...352 and just 7 one day, 7th of July 1943 during the battle of Kursk. These numbers speak for themselves.
Not quite -- for one: The Germans and Soviets were flying 3-4 missions per day; Western pilots flew one (and that one took pretty-much all day).
For another: http://www.thehistoryreader.com/modern-history/october-24-1994-david-mccambell-downed-enemy-aircraft-naval-aviator-ever/ , specifically the October 24, 1944, action. (Anniversary's in three days, even. >:) )
Marechallannes
10-21-2014, 22:33
Does anybody have an idea how the rear guns of the Me.410 worked? :confused:
I'm really curious what firing arc they will have.
Beside this, the Me.410 offers a lot of armament possibilities. I read some info about gunpods that were placed in the bomb slot.
Old Navy
10-21-2014, 22:54
The 410's rear guns were remote-control similar to the B-29's gunnery system. However, it was a very compliecated system that required a lot of maintanence to keep the gun alined with the gunner's sight.
It did, however, allow for complete coverage of the rear tail arc both above and below. Only one gun could be fired at a time.
Does anybody have an idea how the rear guns of the Me.410 worked? :confused:
Try to imagine a barrel-shaped barbette laid in the fuselage so the flat ends are facing the sides of the plane. Out each flat side is a MG 131. Like a turret, the guns can be rotated almost full-circle, plus be elevated; however, since they are out the side of the unit rather than the top and bottom, they develop an arc based off the side of the plane.
I'm really curious what firing arc they will have.
According to the data: They had electrical cutouts to prevent firing through the tail surfaces; beyond that, they could aim anywhere from 70 degrees above "level" to 70 degrees below, plus achieve about 40 degrees of azimuth.
However, like pretty-much-every remote-controlled barbette system of the period: It was incredibly hard to aim, and broke down a lot; there were plans to remove it entirely and add twin MG 151 20mm cannons fired by the pilot and aimed via periscope (similar to the Ar 234).
Beside this, the Me.410 offers a lot of armament possibilities. I read some info about gunpods that were placed in the bomb slot.
As they were intended for bomber-destroyer work, there were a lot of "gun pod in bomb bay" options for the A-1:
/U2: 2x MG 151 20mm.
/U2/R2: 2x 30mm (either MK 103 or MK 108).
/U2/R4: 4x Mg 151, 2 ea. in Waffenbehalter and Waffentropfen.
/U2/R5: 4x MG 151 20mm.
/U4: 1x BK 5 50mm cannon. (The A-2 was also equipped with this, under A-2/U4.)
All of these were in addition to the normal loadout of 2x Mg 151/20 and 2x MG 17 forward, plus the barbette.
B-series units received the B-2/U4, with the 50mm, and 2x MK 103, plus a ZFR 4a gunsight. A vanishingly small number of B-2/U6 were built, with 2x Mk 103 in the bay, and the MG 17s swapped with MG 131s.
There was also an experimental design using a "six-shooter" made from Wfr.Gr. 21 tubes firing 210mm rockets, which could punch off all six rockets in two seconds; however, it took a while to develop (it tended to damage the -410), and no records survive of how well it did in combat (it is believed it was field-tested in the very late stages of the war).
Marechallannes
10-22-2014, 22:14
Thank you , Chris. :)
So the FW-190D and the upcoming Bf.109K have to keep the P51s busy to clear the path for the Me.401, heading to the Fortresses. :guns:
Diamondback
10-22-2014, 22:30
Until your Hornisses have a meeting-of-the-minds with my YB-40s... *evil cackle*
Dammit, now I gotta find an Academy B-17 to convert... Paging Clipper, we have a PROJECT for you! :D
Until your Hornisses have a meeting-of-the-minds with my YB-40s... *evil cackle*
Dammit, now I gotta find an Academy B-17 to convert... Paging Clipper, we have a PROJECT for you! :D
Make sure to figure the lower performance specs on those failed concept boys.
We'll wait until the bombers leave you in their wake and then :slysmile::guns:
Karl
Make sure to figure the lower performance specs on those failed concept boys.
Not that hard -- the problem with the YB-40 concept was: The designers replaced *every pound* of bombload with guns, mounts, ammo, and gunners; so when the bombers punched off the 2-3 *tons* of bombs they were carrying, their performance improved, while the "escorts" were still humping 2-3 tons of kit. So, a YB-40 would perform like a B-17 with a "permanent" bombload.
Myself: I let the P-47s and P-51s shred the -109s... and the -410s get to play with the P-38s. >:)
Diamondback
10-23-2014, 16:24
Besides, you're thinking only ONE... I'm envisioning a full Bomber Box, and you'll never know where they are in the bomber stream until they open up!
Dammit, now I gotta find an Academy B-17 to convert... Paging Clipper, we have a PROJECT for you! :D
Oh yeh, good luck with that (Thank you Gunners :hmm:)
Not that hard -- the problem with the YB-40 concept was: The designers replaced *every pound* of bombload with guns, mounts, ammo, and gunners; so when the bombers punched off the 2-3 *tons* of bombs they were carrying, their performance improved, while the "escorts" were still humping 2-3 tons of kit. So, a YB-40 would perform like a B-17 with a "permanent" bombload.
Oh, I figured that out; I was just subtly reminding DB a big reason this was a failed concept ;)
Myself: I let the P-47s and P-51s shred the -109s... and the -410s get to play with the P-38s. >:)
I'm not sure, but I'm remembering that by the time the P-51s were in full swing, the P-38s were out of the escort business, at least in the 8th AF.
Note that part of my ambivalence towards the 410 release is the awareness of the almost as failed concept of the Zerstörer. Now, if they had gotten the Do.335 in action sooner :slysmile:
Karl
Besides, you're thinking only ONE... I'm envisioning a full Bomber Box, and you'll never know where they are in the bomber stream until they open up!
Meh!
Marechallannes
10-24-2014, 04:58
Until your Hornisses have a meeting-of-the-minds with my YB-40s...
A flying AA cruiser! :eek:
Besides, you're thinking only ONE... I'm envisioning a full Bomber Box, and you'll never know where they are in the bomber stream until they open up!
Ugly idea, Karl! :eek: :eek:
Oberst Hajj
10-24-2014, 05:54
Until your Hornisses have a meeting-of-the-minds with my YB-40s... *evil cackle*
Dammit, now I gotta find an Academy B-17 to convert... Paging Clipper, we have a PROJECT for you! :D
I'm not looking forward to making a base for the YB-40... all those firing arcs are already hurting my head. lol
Zoe Brain
10-24-2014, 06:58
Totally in favour of the Ki-44. Saw lots of service in China, Burma, NEI, as well as in home defence.
More aircraft were later sent to China, and others were used in defense of oil wells in Sumatra, Indonesia, the China-Burma-India theater of operations, Philippines, Japanese metropolitan defense (mainly concentrated around Japan's large industrial cities) and even kamikaze operations in the last stages of the war.
Performance comparable to a P40E. Not a great aircraft, but very good as an opponent for "Flying Tigers" in China, P-40s in NEI, or P-51s over Okinawa and Japan.
The Shoki had its combat debut in China with nine pre-production aircraft forming the 47th Independent Squadron. The combat trial was considered a success, and soon thereafter JAAF Sentais began to equip with the Ki-44. The Tojo’s principal battlefield was in the skies over China, initially fighting the mixture of RAF, Chinese and AVG units fielded against them. Japanese Shoki pilots of the 50th, 64th, 85th and 87th Sentais found that they could easily enough hold their own in the early days of the war, even against the AVG’s P-40s. And while some former Hayabusa pilots may have wished to return to their “dogfighters”, other pilots were able to use the Tojo’s strengths of speed and firepower to their advantage. It was in the Chinese theatre in 1944 that the Ki-44 was first used against the B-29s. These scenes would be repeated later for the Shoki over the Home Islands. However, with the introduction of higher performance Allied fighters, the Shoki Sentai, like the rest of the JAAF, were soon ground down.
By late 1944, Shoki units were transferred to the East Indies and the Philippines in an effort to provide air cover for Japan’s major oil production facilities and to protect the lines of communication through which that oil had to be sent. Here, as in China, there was little the Shokis could do. The Tojo’s last battlefield was in the skies over Japan. While not specifically designed as an interceptor, its high rate of climb and heavy armament made it a primary weapon in the fight against the B-29s.
Until your Hornisses have a meeting-of-the-minds with my YB-40s... *evil cackle*
A flying AA cruiser! :eek:
Besides, you're thinking only ONE... I'm envisioning a full Bomber Box, and you'll never know where they are in the bomber stream until they open up!
Ugly idea, Karl! :eek: :eek:
I'll grant you that, in WGS, they'll do rather well. In real life, with approach speeds, deflection and the need to actually spot your target, well not so well.
Karl
I'm not sure, but I'm remembering that by the time the P-51s were in full swing, the P-38s were out of the escort business, at least in the 8th AF.
The Mustangs were sent in to replace the -38s (and the -47s, as it happened); but that was *after* the YB-40 had come and gone.
Canestri10
12-15-2014, 14:59
I for one am very excited about these releases maybe a little less so for the .410 which I probably won't purchase but the other 3 amazing especially the Corsair. My grandfather flew a Kittyhawk then a Corsair for the RNZAF and flew many missions including being involved in heavy fighting over Guadalcanal but primarily used for ground attacks. Would love to see one release with RNZAF markings. MY grandfather was Pilot Officer PFH Rowley *wink wink* Ares
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I can't wait to see some more focus on BoB and Pacific. Eastern could use a little lovin too.
Sorry, the SBD is going to be in Series 6... I lost track of it there for a bit.
More info on the "reset"... BoB and Midway ;)
ptownhiker
12-15-2014, 17:18
I for one am very excited about these releases maybe a little less so for the .410 which I probably won't purchase but the other 3 amazing especially the Corsair. My grandfather flew a Kittyhawk then a Corsair for the RNZAF and flew many missions including being involved in heavy fighting over Guadalcanal but primarily used for ground attacks. Would love to see one release with RNZAF markings. MY grandfather was Pilot Officer PFH Rowley *wink wink* Ares
I love hearing personal stories like this. Are those photos actually of your grandfather?
Canestri10
12-15-2014, 19:04
Yes those are both shots of him. He called his Corsair "Dream Gal".
This is another of him in formation on the way to Guadalcanal...
(The Hudson bomber leading is acting as Navigation plane)
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Another of him in his Corsair...
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Him with his Dream Gal
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Canestri10
12-15-2014, 19:11
This one has a story behind it:
This is one of two Jap tanks burnt out after he strafed them. There was an Australian unit just over the ridge and was about to get a nasty surprise from these 2 tanks. My grandfather spotted them and lined them up, the first run he made wasn't particularly fruitful as his bullets just bounced the front armour so he lined them up again but from behind this time and both tanks burst into flames. He was awarded with being "Mentioned in Dispatches".
Notice the dead Jap driver marked with X.
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Naharaht
12-15-2014, 21:58
Those are good photographs. You must be very proud of your grandfather.
Flying Officer Kyte
12-15-2014, 23:13
It is always great to see these connections with the past especially if the people are relatives of the members of the Drome.
Thanks for posting Sam.
Rob.
Canestri10
12-15-2014, 23:35
Sorry to go off topic from series 7 lineup guys but I am very proud of what my grandfather did especially at such a young age (18-23).
My dream series 7 would be
Corsair
Hellcat (Maybe a little pacific heavy so a FW190A or 109 G or F would suffice)
Sturmovik
A6M5
Great pictures and story. Hope this set is out sometime next year.
Canestri10
12-16-2014, 13:26
I was talking to Andrea the designer a few days ago and he told me a new ww2 starter set is due to be released in 2015 and it will be BoB focused.
Is this common knowledge because I don't see it talked about anywhere?
So can we expect most of their time and resources going into a new starter set next year?
The Aussies and New Zealanders are crazy; it's no wonder they adapted to a bats***-insane bird like the Corsair as fast as they did. :)
(Followed closely by the US Marines -- enough said. >;) )
Diamondback
12-16-2014, 18:52
Patience, Sam--there IS news coming, I just need to decide how many bombs to drop once I crack the bay doors. :)
OldGuy59
12-16-2014, 19:02
I was talking to Andrea the designer a few days ago and he told me a new ww2 starter set is due to be released in 2015 and it will be BoB focused.
Is this common knowledge because I don't see it talked about anywhere?
So can we expect most of their time and resources going into a new starter set next year?
"When" is an important point.
It will probably not be soon enough to have on hand for GottaCon 2015. That's the end of February, when I will be demo-ing WGS with a few BoB scenarios. It would be nice to have a few of those to showcase.
Patience, Sam--there IS news coming, I just need to decide how many bombs to drop once I crack the bay doors. :)
Well, don't forget to wipe, flush, wash, and spray afterward. >;)
Diamondback
12-17-2014, 12:29
O.o
:eek: putting on my flak gear!!!
Great stories :) i too would love to see the RNZAF colours represented
Good to see a starter set for those just getting into the game but I hope not like the last one where the starter set had 4 of the planes that were issued for that series. You have to buy the starter to get all the planes in that series. Maybe 12 of the series and 3 different starter sets.
:eek: putting on my flak gear!!!
In this case, MOPP IV might not be enough.... >;)
Diamondback
12-19-2014, 00:15
Oh, stop being a monkey flinging poo, French. :p
Sorry to go off topic from series 7 lineup guys but I am very proud of what my grandfather did especially at such a young age (18-23).
My dream series 7 would be
Corsair
Hellcat (Maybe a little pacific heavy so a FW190A or 109 G or F would suffice)
Sturmovik
A6M5
I am thinking after Series 6 and if theSeries 7 line-up doesn't change, the Hellcat and a more advanced version of the Zero make perfect sense for Series 8. The Hellcat is very deserving of making an appearance in the game, and I hope we are only so lucky to see it happen. With the Zero, it can gain some much needed manuverability that is was neglected to be given in series 1. The fact that the Wildcat and Zero are so close maneuver wise in Series 1 is kinda laughable. But I understand the intent.
Still hoping to see a KATE as it was also a level bomber. It could be used in two different types of missions.
Oh, stop being a monkey flinging poo, French. :p
Monkeys don't use trebuchets. >:)
Flying Officer Kyte
12-22-2014, 01:14
Monkeys don't use trebuchets. >:)
Maybe not yet Chris, but their training schedule is quite advanced.
153314
Rob.
Canestri10
12-22-2014, 14:17
With all this Pacific and BoB talk it got me thinking about different scenarios.
I was planning on getting a WoG coast mat and a Sails of glory mat for the ocean or channel battles to put next to the coast.
Has anyone else done this or is Ares maybe going to release a Pacific playing mat with small islands possibly? Ahhh too many questions for one post..
Also I would love to see a mash up of my 2 favourite games, WoG and Memoir 44. Would be great to have an all encompassing campaign setup and have separate players for pilots, infantry and tank crews.
Ok my head is spinning now I'll stop.
153314
If it's monkeys, shouldn't that ball be Brown? >;)
If it's monkeys, shouldn't that ball be Brown? >;)
Maybe they ate pomegranates and raspberries
Karl
Barkmann
12-29-2014, 08:49
152858152859
I can't wait to see some more focus on BoB and Pacific. Eastern could use a little lovin too.
Awesome images Sam! Its always great to see such images. Thank you.:D
I would love some Bubble Tops, just to paint them in Brazilian colors.:) Now that we have a great combination of Italian and German planes, the only thing missing is these P-47.
Thanks
Nick
Flying Officer Kyte
12-29-2014, 08:56
I'm afraid that like those of us who have been with Wings from the start, you will learn that things move slowly on the distribution front Nick. Patience is essential, and if you don't have it the waiting can be very frustrating. Believe me when I tell you that releases are coming faster now than they have ever done.
Rob.
Very true Rob, even though we had a year between releases for WGS miniatures, things have vastly improved. I think Ares does all they can to move things along, but like all things, it takes time and I am sure a lot of patience when dealing with Chinese manufacturing (if it is anything like what we go through in my place of employment when dealing with Chinese factories).
fast.git
12-30-2014, 10:51
Believe me when I tell you that releases are coming faster now than they have ever done.
Rob.
That's a good point, Rob. It's easy to lose perspective and grow frustrated with the waiting... even though matters have improved dramatically. I'll need to keep this in mind while I wait for the (hopeful) reprint of Series 4.
:)
Canestri10
01-14-2015, 00:00
So I've been thinking abit about some releases I would like to see. I remember Oberst telling us to shoot some ideas out there so here are mine:
So far Series 6 and a BoB deluxe set seem like they are concrete from what I've heard.
Series 7 also seems more or less decided.
Firstly I think some re prints are MUCH needed on the top sellers from Series 1 and 2 like all the 109s and Bader's Hurricane should be top priority imho. They are impossible to find and from what I can gather the demand is still quite high for them.
Then series 6 Yokosuka D4Y, SBD-5 Dauntless, Bf109K (Would prefer a G but can't complain), P-47 Thunderbolt all sound great to me.
Then the new BoB starter set
Then some additions to Axis bombers like Ju88, Do217, G3M, G4M to match the heavies we got not long ago
I personally think Series 7 is fantastic except I think one change that absolutely has to be made is change the Me410 for a Ki-45 Nick. This is for the most part a Pacific themed series and the 410 is out of place here. The Germans already have a twin engine fighter in the 110 and the Japanese have none.
The luftwaffe will get some love in the BoB releases where I think more 109s (I know I'm repeating myself but we need more early 109s!!) and definitely some Fw190As
Then after all that some Russian, Italian, RAAF and RNZAF planes would be great to fill in some big and small gaps
Then a flying boat release would be crazy cool like a Short Sunderland, PBY Catalina, Emily and B&V V222 Wiking
Ok I think that's enough ranting for now.
What do you think guys?
Marechallannes
01-14-2015, 00:47
You sum it up very well, Sam.
Here is my opinion:
Personally I can live very good with a late war heavy fighter for the Luftwaffe, because you need opponents for late war US B17s and their massive escort of P-38s, P-51s and P-47.
Would you send BoB Messerschmitt reprints versus B17Gs?
That's why the Bf.109K fits that good to the US plane releases.
I would not cry that loud if we get a Japanese twin engined fighter instead of the Me.410, but this means "less food" for my US-Fighters. ;)
More Axis medium bombers like a Ju88 (nighfighter versions possible!) or a GM4 Betty sounds good. A Vickers Wellington would be fine too, but we have the very nice Lancasters at the moment. (I love them!)
...
Then after all that some Russian, Italian, RAAF and RNZAF planes would be great to fill in some big and small gaps.
...
RAAF & RNZAf paint shemes would be wonderful for the Pacific.
Russians & Italians? A clear personal "No"!
I see those big & small gaps in the moment at the theaters I'm interested the most: Western Europe, Pacific and the nightfight. Series 6 & 7 will fill some and I like it, how the new series are announced.
...
Then a flying boat release would be crazy cool like a Short Sunderland, PBY Catalina, Emily and B&V V222 Wiking
...
I would support a Kickstarter project for a PBY Catalina flyboat.
Nightbomber
01-14-2015, 02:21
Some (another) notes of mine:), according to Sam's post.
Of course every new plane will be warm-welcomed, no doubt about it, but...
Fw-190A should replace Bf 109K for just OBVIOUS reason: longer period of operational history, many variants and much more possible fronts to cover. It would just fit perfectly in Lufftwaffe range. Bf 109K is an odd choice.
With Me-410 it is even worse. It was a nice looking bird, sure. But ...not only it's performance was below expectations, but it's operational usage was very limited. It should be replaced with Ju-88, for the same reasons as it is with Fw-190.
No objection to other planes.
Sometimes I wonder what pushed NEXUS/ARES to publish those niche aircraft instead of those most popular and famous ones. Anybody knows?
Flying Officer Kyte
01-14-2015, 02:29
Sometimes I wonder what pushed NEXUS/ARES to publish those niche aircraft instead of those most popular and famous ones. Anybody knows?
It's one of the few things we did not get a proper answer for in the interview with Roberto Di Meglio, Andy.
Maybe next time we must ask that question.
Rob.
fast.git
01-14-2015, 03:23
...and definitely some Fw190As...
Without a doubt! :thumbsup:
fast.git
01-14-2015, 03:30
More Axis medium bombers like a Ju88 (nighfighter versions possible!) or a GM4 Betty sounds good.
An absolute must!
RAAF & RNZAf paint shemes would be wonderful for the Pacific.
I would support a Kickstarter project for a PBY Catalina flyboat.
I would argue with neither of these developments. :)
Fw-190A should replace Bf 109K for just OBVIOUS reason: longer period of operational history, many variants and much more possible fronts to cover. It would just fit perfectly in Lufftwaffe range. Bf 109K is an odd choice.
With Me-410 it is even worse. It was a nice looking bird, sure. But ...not only it's performance was below expectations, but it's operational usage was very limited. It should be replaced with Ju-88, for the same reasons as it is with Fw-190.
Andrzej makes some good points... I'm not so against the 109K (I would probably prefer a late-model G, however), but the 410 is a head-scratcher considering the absence of a 190.
Sometimes I wonder what pushed NEXUS/ARES to publish those niche aircraft instead of those most popular and famous ones. Anybody knows?
My assumption has always been "availability": I can get the well-known units any of half-a-dozen places; the rara avis, tho'....
(Of course, if I mentioned the *other* reason, I'd probably get Banned.... :P )
My assumption has always been "availability": I can get the well-known units any of half-a-dozen places; the rara avis, tho'....
But not with official cards and stats.
(Of course, if I mentioned the *other* reason, I'd probably get Banned.... :P )
well, maybe; though we're a rather tolerant bunch here ;)
Karl
But not with official cards and stats.
That's as may be -- there's still no money to be made in an overcrowded market. (This wouldn't be a problem if they still sold card-only sets....)
Canestri10
01-15-2015, 14:47
So no other ideas on what people would like to see released?
[QUOTE=Canestri10;329803]
I personally think Series 7 is fantastic except I think one change that absolutely has to be made is change the Me410 for a Ki-45 Nick. This is for the most part a Pacific themed series and the 410 is out of place here. The Germans already have a twin engine fighter in the 110 and the Japanese have none. [Quote]
I have to dissagree partly on that point. I think that the Me410 is a must for games with B17's that and the Fw190 are going to make an exciteing challenge to games with the B17's:thumbsup:
I also agree that a Ki-45 (Nick) would also be good but have that insted of the Nakajima Ki-48 which I have no intrest in.:clap:
[Quote]Then a flying boat release would be crazy cool like a Short Sunderland, PBY Catalina, Emily and B&V V222 Wiking[Quote]
Unfortunatly I do not think these will see the light of day with these at ARES so we will have to reley on Clipper and AMI. I have a Clipper Sunderland and it is excellent and I do not belive ARES could do a better job:hatsoff: Also I have read that AMI are making an Emily, and as much as I dislike shapeways they do a good Catalina.
Marechallannes
01-15-2015, 22:22
So no other ideas on what people would like to see released?
Sure, but this wasn't your question. ;)
If you check the complete thread you'll get an idea what people prefer to be released next.
Barkmann
02-02-2015, 09:21
I'm afraid that like those of us who have been with Wings from the start, you will learn that things move slowly on the distribution front Nick. Patience is essential, and if you don't have it the waiting can be very frustrating. Believe me when I tell you that releases are coming faster now than they have ever done.
Rob.
I know Rob, I know. ;) Im just dreaming. I've already tasted from the distribution and im aware its not the faster. Im just saying that when (if) we have Buble Tops, i will paint them in Brazilian colors. :D :D
Thanks
Nick
Im just saying that when (if) we have Buble Tops, i will paint them in Brazilian colors. :D :D
So you're going to...
[sunglasses]
...GIVE YOUR MINIS A BRAZILIAN JOB?
B)
Barkmann
02-02-2015, 14:52
So you're going to...
[sunglasses]
...GIVE YOUR MINIS A BRAZILIAN JOB?
B)
I hope this isnt what im thinking.... :slysmile:
So you're going to...
[sunglasses]
...GIVE YOUR MINIS A BRAZILIAN JOB?
B)
:eek:
Diamondback
02-02-2015, 15:31
So you're going to...
[sunglasses]
...GIVE YOUR MINIS A BRAZILIAN JOB?
B)
*smacks French with live trout*
:p
Flying Officer Kyte
02-03-2015, 01:11
These remarks are not the usual news and announcements we expect on this thread.:embarrass:
They should be confined to the Hobby Forum please chaps.:cheezy:
Rob.
*smacks French with live trout*
No, no -- the trout is for bad *puns*.
No kidding -- in the old _Babylon 5_ group up here, they had "Thwap, The Trout Of Discipline"; make a bad pun, get Thwap-ped. Of course, when The SO mentioned this to me, my response was:
[sunglasses]
"Ah, it's a fish shtick."
B)
P-38 vs 410. Might be just enough to drag me out of the great war.
Produce a Mozzie, and I'm a convert.
Diamondback
03-17-2015, 22:16
Actually, the 109K does make a little sense when paired with the Jug, Ares is trying to fill the Jabo niche for both sides. If memory serves, there was a squadron of 109K-4s down in the MTO that specialized in anti-ship warfare and bagged themselves a cruiser...
Actually, the 109K does make a little sense when paired with the Jug, Ares is trying to fill the Jabo niche for both sides. If memory serves, there was a squadron of 109K-4s down in the MTO that specialized in anti-ship warfare and bagged themselves a cruiser...
JG77 had a hand in sinking HMS _Fiji_ off Crete 22 May '41, but there were other units involved as well.
Gotham Resident
01-25-2016, 08:17
I'm tired of looking at the Series 6 thread, so I thought I'd follow up with this one. I know it was subject to change, have any changes been considered?
I'm tired of looking at the Series 6 thread, so I thought I'd follow up with this one. I know it was subject to change, have any changes been considered?
I certainly hope not when it comes to the Corsair and P-38. Although, there are still a bunch of planes I hope that will someday grace my Wings gaming mats in an official capacity, none of which are more important to me than the aforementioned American ones.
Especially, with the long periods now between releases!
Lt. S.Kafloc
01-25-2016, 14:34
German:
JU88
DO217
Japanese:
Ki-45
G4M
Britain:
Wellington
Mosquito
Blenheim
Beaufort
US:
Buffalo
P36
Devastator
B29
B26
Italy:
Fiat Br 20
SM 79
Russia:
Polikarpov I-16
IL2
Lag
Petlyakov PE-8
Special Flying Boats
Do24
PBY Catalina
Kawanishi H6K
Sunderland
I am quietly hoping for a later mark of Chance Vought Corsair than the F4U-1 pictured at the start of this thread. Only because I'm hoping to see a Corsair Mk IV released in the line up however this may prove to be a little too nichey ... The F4U-1D wouldn't though. Also noticed how there is nothing British like the Hawker Typhoon Mk Ib or Tempest Mk V one of which arose from the other so this would probably be an either / or choice.
Lockheed P-38 Lightnings are another type I cannot wait to see released as an official :minis: for the game even though the performance between the various marks varies quite dramatically.
The Messerschmitt 410 if I remember correctly from the 1/72 Matchbox model of the 1980s is potentially another forward-firing cannon armed aircraft. Not too familiar with the Ki-44 so it's read-up time here and for the Me 410 as kits built a long time ago is hardly a sound knowledge basis! :hmm:
The Messerschmitt 410 if I remember correctly from the 1/72 Matchbox model of the 1980s is potentially another forward-firing cannon armed aircraft. Not too familiar with the Ki-44 so it's read-up time here and for the Me 410 as kits built a long time ago is hardly a sound knowledge basis! :hmm:
Me410 nose cannon covered a lot of ground -- baseline was twin 20mm (plus 2-4 0.30-cal.); twin 30mm were tried, and even a solo 50mm. And that's not counting the "six-gun" revolver-style 210mm rocket launcher....
Naharaht
02-17-2016, 05:26
The Me 410 also had two rearward firing 13mm guns in remotely controlled barbettes (one gun in each) mounted on each side of the fuselage.
The Me 410 also had two rearward firing 13mm guns in remotely controlled barbettes (one gun in each) mounted on each side of the fuselage.
Which weapons could be summarized with Mark Twain's quote about the derringer he carried: "It was grand. It had one fault -- one could not hit anything with it." :)
However, since the barbettes couldn't fire forward (IIRC, the best they could manage was about 45 degrees up or down from straight ahead), they don't enter into the "forward-firing cannon" debate.
fast.git
02-17-2016, 17:16
P-38 vs 410. Might be just enough to drag me out of the great war.
Produce a Mozzie, and I'm a convert.
Meh... not so excited for the 410. A P-38 ("J" or "L" model, please), on the other hand, would hold my attention. Completely agree that "The Wooden Wonder" is long overdue.
When Series 7 is release in 2018 I am going to grab two handfuls of Corsairs! I do hope they print x3 USA, especially considering what the British did to the Lend-Lease planes.
I do hope they print x3 USA, especially considering what the British did to the Lend-Lease planes.
We didn't chop the wingtips of all of the Chance Vought Corsairs we received :)
Diamondback
02-18-2016, 04:29
For that, we shoulda shipped you Brewster F3A Corsairs--a plant so horribly mismanaged that even the NAVY taking over running the company themselves couldn't deliver a bird fit for any use beyond training.
:P
Blackronin
02-18-2016, 04:34
There are some misconceptions about the Brewster built Corsairs. The biggest is the quality control issue, usually citing wing failure during dives. The fact is that such stories are not true. The U.S. Navy found no quality problems in the Corsairs as they accepted them for service in the U.S. or for the Lend-Lease program. Brewster's problem was poor management and accounting. They were never a large company and produced few Corsairs compared to Vought and Goodyear, but Brewster's output was actually pretty good considering the size of the company.
Brewster produced only a few of the birdcage canopy F3A-1's, approximately 68, before switching production to the raised canopy F3A-1 (aka F3A-1A). Brewster did not finish any F3A-1D's as the company was shut down by the government before -1D production could begin and there is no record of the navy accepting a F3A-1D.
Of the 735 Corsairs produced by Brewster, 430 were sent to the British under the Lend-Lease program. The rest were used for training pilots in the U.S.
Blackronin
02-18-2016, 05:31
If you look at this release in context with the heavies that are coming out now, it makes a lot of sense.
Battle of Britain will be addressed between the Series 6 and Series 7 releases. It was intended to come out before 6, but is still in the works now... were S6 models are "nearly done".
As to the SBD being still missing in action, I'd say look for it with the Pacific "reset" release.
In the end, I think we could see 3 releases for WGS next year and if things were really fast paces, 4. I know the heavy bombers took a lot of their production resources to develop and produce. With those out of the way, things should speed up some.
Long time ago (October 2014) our dear commander said:
In the end, I think we could see 3 releases for WGS next year and if things were really fast paces, 4. I know the heavy bombers took a lot of their production resources to develop and produce. With those out of the way, things should speed up some.
It's now Middle February 2016...
We didn't chop the wingtips of all of the Chance Vought Corsairs we received :)
I was going to say something about dumping them in the sea like tea into the Boston harbor, just to show the great lengths I will go to arrive at bad history jokes...
Also notice the year above I anticipate the release, that would be humor more along the lines of science fiction. :p
Naharaht
02-18-2016, 11:03
The Royal Navy figured out how to land Corsairs on carriers before the U.S. Navy.
We preferred to house our Corsairs on islands and launch Wildcats from carriers. ;)
But my comments were all meant for fun, do not take them too seriously...
fast.git
02-18-2016, 12:16
When Series 7 is release in 2018 I am going to grab two handfuls of Corsairs! I do hope they print x3 USA, especially considering what the British did to the Lend-Lease planes.
We preferred to house our Corsairs on islands and launch Wildcats from carriers. ;)
But my comments were all meant for fun, do not take them too seriously...
Understanding the nature and intent of your comments... I still doubt this will be the case. Not because of numbers produced, who used them, what they did to them, etc., but because USN & USMC color schemes in the PTO are reasonably uniform (at least by year). Lots of blue and grey. Not particularly exciting. Including a Fleet Air Arm or RNZAF Corsair might allow for a little variety.
Similar to the Free French A-24 Banshee (Dauntless) we're going to be getting at some point in the future.
I get it. Nothing stopping me from getting x3 each of the 2 I will want I suppose. Same thing in the end as x2 of 3!
fast.git
02-18-2016, 16:02
I get it. Nothing stopping me from getting x3 each of the 2 I will want I suppose. Same thing in the end as x2 of 3!
Exactly! :sAprvd: I'm in a similar situation concerning the Free French A-24. Not convinced I need one.
Exactly! :sAprvd: I'm in a similar situation concerning the Free French A-24. Not convinced I need one.
Not sure about outright dismissal of the incoming A-24B Banshee as I was initially sceptical about whenever I finally got hold of the French P-40F Warhawk. Then when I did finally get it I did a little research and some thinking out of the box and found a use for it :)
Naharaht
02-18-2016, 19:42
Thinking about the choice of upcoming models in WGS, does it seem that Ares are now trying to find potential 'Dogfight Doubles' as a response to our criticisms in the past?
fast.git
02-18-2016, 21:21
Not sure about outright dismissal of the incoming A-24B Banshee as I was initially sceptical about whenever I finally got hold of the French P-40F Warhawk. Then when I did finally get it I did a little research and some thinking out of the box and found a use for it :)
That's a fair point, Barney. My Free French P-40 converted nicely to a DAF P-40 flown by a member of the RAAF. No reason that A-24 can't serve as an USAAF A-24. Plus, who asn I kidding. I've collected all of them so far... almost feel obligated to continue.
:minis::sick::surrender:
So no other ideas on what people would like to see released?
CAC Wirraway and/or Boomerang.
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