Artillery Spotting Gameplay Idea

[surfimp]

Been reading "Bloody April" by Peter Hart and "Sagittarius Rising" by Cecil Lewis and gaining a better appreciation for the centrality of artillery spotting and photo reconnaissance to the overall aviation effort in WWI.

This got me thinking about how to do artillery spotting within WGF in a fun and historically plausible manner. Specifically I thought about how to reasonably recreate the process by which spotters would help the artillery batteries get zeroed in on their targets via a system of instructions sent via one-way wireless.

Some quick forum research revealed schemes for keeping the spotter plane in a certain area for a given number of turns. In terms of the game, this is simple to implement, but it doesn't really capture much of the spirit of the actual spotting activity.

My thought was to assign a points value to the spotting task for each barrage target, and to use one of the damage decks to simulate the zeroing-in communications between spotter plane and artillery battery.

It would work as follows:


A barrage target is identified with a target card and assigned a points value (e.g. 10 points) to represent the process of getting an artillery battery "zeroed in" on it.


The artillery spotting plane flies within a specified distance (1 firing ruler distance, measured from any part of the base of the spotter aircraft to any part of the target card) of the target and enters a holding pattern to maintain that distance.


At the end of each turn (three movements) that the spotting plane has been within the specified distance or less of the target, has not performed an Immelman, and has not been under attack by enemy aircraft, an A deck damage card is drawn and placed face up next to the barrage target to simulate the spotting aircraft observing the firing and impact of an artillery salvo, and radioing corrections back to the gun battery.


When the total of all cards drawn for the barrage target equals the points value (e.g. 10 points) for zeroing in the artillery battery barraging the target, the spotting task is complete and the target is considered to be destroyed for scenario purposes.


Special damages are ignored, and drawing the explosion card counts as the gun battery getting perfectly zeroed in, even if the points total has otherwise not been met.


If the observer is incapacitated, the aircraft is incapable of continuing the artillery spotting task. Likewise if the spotter aircraft is shot down.
If it was the only spotter aircraft, then the scenario is considered failed for victory points purposes.


Upon completion of the spotting task (by whatever cause), all cards drawn for the barrage target are returned to the A deck and it is reshuffled.

I am going to try these rules out soon and will report back the findings. But in concept it seems like it could be very fun!

EDIT 9/24/14:
These rules have been added to the Files section here on the forum: Artillery Spotting Rules (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=1979)

Having played through this scenario a number of times now, I'd like to suggest the following placement of models prior to start of play:

Spotter aircraft close to one edge of the play area, in position (within approx 1 ruler) to observe artillery target
Escort aircraft at center of play area
Interceptor aircraft at far opposite edge of play area from spotter aircraft
Equal number of escorts and interceptors

This placement gives the spotter aircraft at least a turn or two to perform spotting before the interceptors can reach it. The interceptors and escorts are usually within firing range of each other after 2 moves (depends on the table size of course). The scenario evolves into a race against time - both for the spotter aircraft, as well as for the interceptors. It's a lot of fun!

Would very much appreciate any thoughts or feedback on this idea, especially if you have tried it out.

Thanks!
Steve

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Neat idea. Well done. Simple and effective.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I agree with Neil. It is far more simple than the methods we have used re the under over left and right system in OTT.
I will give it a go when I get a suitable game. I may even use that for ranging in and then have to score the hit points on the card in addition, just to make it that much harder.
Rob.

[flash]

This is a little of the version Eric (7eat51) gave us for OTT Steve - a little more involved:

"Observe Offboard Artillery: Three maneuvers after you have relayed target identification information, the enemy battery will be fired upon by offboard artillery, after which you can make an observation and relay associated information. As before, this is a two-manuever step, not necessarily consecutive, and both maneuvers must be free from combat with enemy aircraft. For example, Maneuver (M) 1 you identify the target; M2 you relay the information; M3 and M4 you fly around; M5 shelling occurs while you're flying around; M6 you make an observation; M7 you relay information. If the target is not destroyed, repeat maneuvers M3-M7 until destroyed.

To determine the effectiveness of artillery shelling, use the following schema:
After the first round of fire, roll a 6-sided die: 1-2 hits and destroys the enemy battery; 4-6 misses.
After the second round of fire, roll a 6-sided die: 1-4 hits and destroys the enemy battery; 5-6 misses.
After the third round of fire, the enemy battery is hit and destroyed.
The increased probability of hitting and destroying the batteries reflect the improved firing due to your relaying adjustment information.
Perform Reconnaissance: After each round of firing, you will perform the two-manuver step of observation and relaying associated information - maneuvers M6 and M7 in the above example."

Have a look at the full scenario here (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?16694-Over-the-Trenches-The-Final-Months-Mission-8-Assault-and-Battery) if you haven't already !

I think with your version you need to consider what happens if you can't spot because you're out of position or under attack - Arty may just keep firing - maybe in those cases switch to B damage deck for hits on target ? :)

[surfimp]

Interesting, I hadn't seen that but it's a very similar general idea! Cool!

I was trying to stick with the game materials as supplied (damage cards, rulers, etc.)

As for the question of what happens if the spotter plane is out of position, under attack, etc.:

The A deck cards are drawn to simulate the zeroing-in process itself, on the understanding that once the artillery is on target, the target will be shelled for as long as necessary to destroy it without further intervention required from the spotter aircraft.

By having the A decks add up to 10 (or whatever points value is selected), and using the explosion card to simulate a lucky adjustment that gets the guns on-target quickly, the idea was the same as what was expressed using dice above: a progressive process which will, if allowed to continue, eventually guarantee the guns get zeroed in on the target.

However, if the guns are not on target, and not getting corrections wired back from the spotter plane (because it's under attack, out of position, shot down, etc.) then, by virtue of the fact these targets were not suited to direct observation from the ground (hence the use of a spotter plane!), any further shelling would be futile in terms of destroying the target.

So I wouldn't suggest B deck damage cards be drawn, but rather no cards be drawn for the duration of the time the plane was unable to spot for whatever reason.

--

So, tried testing out these rules last night, sending a Roland C.II and two Albatros D.III escorts to attempt artillery spotting. Two Sopwith Triplanes and one SPAD VII were sent by the RNAS to intercept. Unfortunately for the Central Powers, the Albatros scouts were not able to prevent the Triplanes from breaking through, and the pilot of the Roland was killed on the first pass by a lucky shot (aka the kaboom card was drawn).

Clearly, establishing local air superiority is a prerequisite for successful artillery spotting... just like you read about in the books! :)

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

I think with the every 3 cards draw an A deck could be a B deck.
Artillery spotting was jolly hard to accomplish.
I agree with the once target damage exceeds ## amount then the battery is on target and fires for effect.
For simplistic method I would agree also this constitutes target destroyed or neutralised.

Knowing my penchant from drawing numerous zero damage cards, with either deck, then it will definitely be a long mission!

[steel_ratt]

An idea struck me out of the blue (much like artillery) while reading this, specifically the point about 'what happens if you are not supplying correcting information'. The idea is thus:

Use whatever method (one of the above) for initiating 'spotting'. When you have spotted, draw an "A" card. This is the amount of damage the artillery will cause to the target each phase. If no further adjustments are made, the artillery will continue doing this much damage. Every time you successfully spot, you draw an "A" card and add that to the total amount of damage being dealt each phase.

You could end up with a string of "0"s resulting in no damage (SOB gunners not listening to the observer!), it could build slowly as the guns adjust in, or you could get a few big numbers when the arty "get's it right". (Or the Explosion... lucky hit, target destroyed.)

Flexibility can be provided by modifying the damage capacity of the target, or by changing the deck from which you are drawing.

EDIT: Moving targets? The defender gets to remove random cards at a set rate?

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Invariably corrections were made with either the left or right gun of a battery. Once this gun was laid on then the others adjusted accordingly and fired for as long as necessary. a battery of guns could cover an area some 2-300 yards by 50-60 yards. Not every gun in the battery would hit the target. But yo had a pretty good chance. Think of carpet bombing during WW2, how many bombs actually hit the target and how many were within 1 mile! Then apply a similar effect result for artillery.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I think that between us we have given plenty of options and variations for anyone who wishes to do a spotting mission to make up a set of criteria which fits the particular situation.
One of the things that makes this site so good is the sharing of these ideas amongst the community.
Once again thanks for your input chaps.
Rob.

[tikkifriend]

Steve its a great idea. Why not post it in the File section That way it allows us to download it as hard copy. ( do like a bit of paper to look at when playing :)
Well done :thumbsup:

[tikkifriend]

Glad to see you read Sagittarius Rising . Try Wings of War by Rudolph Stark . It gives you the German perspective and is equally readable. ISBN I-85367-004-9

[surfimp]

Thanks all for the feedback. I will be continuing to experiment with this idea and when I get something I feel makes for a fun game, I'll write it up and add it to the files section here.

Initial observations are that trying to combine scout air superiority patrols with artillery spotting in the same mission / on the same game board is challenging with the rules as written... it's quite easy for the opposing aircraft to simply fly by the friendly scouts and begin immediately harassing the observation plane(s), preventing them from doing their work.

This is of course realistic but it means actually getting to put the proposed spotting rules to the test rather difficult ;)

I will check out the "Wings of War" book by Stark, sounds cool.

Thanks again all!

[gully_raker]

:D Thought you might be interested in a method I have used for our Games Club Wings Arty Spotting games.

The spotter aircraft has to circle the Target & once it has completed one circuit I roll a Games Workshop Scatter Dice.
If a "Hit" is rolled the target is hit & draws a C card. If a miss is rolled the you must fly in the direction of the miss arrow ( to indicate to your Guns the direction the shot went---no radios at this time!;))

You then again commence to circle the target & after the third manoeuvre again roll the Scatter dice & continue until the target is destroyed. You must allocate a damage amount to the Target before the game.
Of course you can add AA fire, Enemy scouts & friendly escorts to your scenario.

I like the randomness of the scatter dice but you can of course just use a regular D6 with the 4 & 6 being hits, the 1 being off to the far left, the 2 the far right, 3 near left & 5 near right.

Please let me know your thoughts.:D

[Flying Officer Kyte]

It suits me Baz, because it a long last gives me something to use those scatter dice on.
Rob.

[surfimp]

Played another game tonight with an artillery spotting objective. It was a success! :)

We played on two Wings of Glory play mats (city and countryside) aligned long edge to long edge... effectively, a nearly square playing surface.

This time it was a Breguet flying the mission with two Camels and an SE5a for escort, versus three Fokker Dr.1 interceptors.

In the interest of giving the Breguet time to direct at least a few salvos (so as to test the proposed rules a bit), and to simulate the Allied aircraft pushing deep into enemy airspace to suppress interceptors, we started the Breguet in the one corner of the mat within spotting range of the barrage target. The Camel & SE5a escorts were place in the middle of the play area, and the Fokker interceptors at the far opposite corner, diagonal from the Breguet.

At the end of the first turn, the Breguet (which started the game within spotting range of the target) drew an A deck card to represent the first barrage salvo. A 3 was drawn; good but some corrections would be needed (we were using the value 10 to represent a successful zeroing in of the artillery on the target).

Second turn, the escorts tied up the Fokkers in a dogfight, leaving the Breguet unmolested. At the end of the turn, having carefully observed the impact of second salvo, the Breguet drew another 3. Making progress, a few more like that and the guns will be on target and the job done.

At the end of the second turn, one of the Fokkers had flown clear of the dogfight and was angling to engage the Breguet, though it was still a good ways off and well out of gun range.

At the end of the third turn, the Breguet had turned back toward target, and though the Fokker was closing fast it was still out of gun range. So the Breguet drew another A deck card. KA-BOOM! Thanks to good training and coordination, the Breguet had gotten the artillery on-target in only three tries - what good luck!

The Breguet's observer transmits "OK!" via Morse code on his one-way wireless set, and the artillery proceed to pound the target with hundreds of shells.

Meanwhile, the Camels flamed two of the Dr.1s and both fall shortly thereafter. The remaining Dr.1, seeing the tide turned against him, made for the safety of home and narrowly escaped being caught by the SE5a on the edge of the map.

All in all, a very good time! The artillery rules were simple to use and fun. We'll definitely play them again. I'll write something up as soon as I get a chance :salute:

Oh, and here's a fun video from Rise of Flight showing how artillery spotting works in that game. Pretty cool!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPUCa72jEMw

[gully_raker]

Played another game tonight with an artillery spotting objective. It was a success! :)

We played on two Wings of Glory play mats (city and countryside) aligned long edge to long edge... effectively, a nearly square playing surface.

This time it was a Breguet flying the mission with two Camels and an SE5a for escort, versus three Fokker Dr.1 interceptors.

In the interest of giving the Breguet time to direct at least a few salvos (so as to test the proposed rules a bit), and to simulate the Allied aircraft pushing deep into enemy airspace to suppress interceptors, we started the Breguet in the one corner of the mat within spotting range of the barrage target. The Camel & SE5a escorts were place in the middle of the play area, and the Fokker interceptors at the far opposite corner, diagonal from the Breguet.

At the end of the first turn, the Breguet (which started the game within spotting range of the target) drew an A deck card to represent the first barrage salvo. A 3 was drawn; good but some corrections would be needed (we were using the value 10 to represent a successful zeroing in of the artillery on the target).

Second turn, the escorts tied up the Fokkers in a dogfight, leaving the Breguet unmolested. At the end of the turn, having carefully observed the impact of second salvo, the Breguet drew another 3. Making progress, a few more like that and the guns will be on target and the job done.

At the end of the second turn, one of the Fokkers had flown clear of the dogfight and was angling to engage the Breguet, though it was still a good ways off and well out of gun range.

At the end of the third turn, the Breguet had turned back toward target, and though the Fokker was closing fast it was still out of gun range. So the Breguet drew another A deck card. KA-BOOM! Thanks to good training and coordination, the Breguet had gotten the artillery on-target in only three tries - what good luck!

The Breguet's observer transmits "OK!" via Morse code on his one-way wireless set, and the artillery proceed to pound the target with hundreds of shells.

Meanwhile, the Camels flamed two of the Dr.1s and both fall shortly thereafter. The remaining Dr.1, seeing the tide turned against him, made for the safety of home and narrowly escaped being caught by the SE5a on the edge of the map.

All in all, a very good time! The artillery rules were simple to use and fun. We'll definitely play them again. I'll write something up as soon as I get a chance :salute:

Oh, and here's a fun video from Rise of Flight showing how artillery spotting works in that game. Pretty cool!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPUCa72jEMw

Well Done!:thumbsup:

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Video link was cool but very WW2+ in actual Arty Tgt Indication.

I still like your idea and will attempt to incorporate that into my own to steer away from dice rolling.

[surfimp]

Thanks guys :)

The dice and cards work mostly the same in principle, the point of using the cards was just to stick with game materials as supplied by Nexus / Ares.

I think for the scenario to be the most fun, it's probably best to have the spotter in position and ready to spot at the beginning of the game, and the interceptors and escorts very close to being engaged right off the bat.

Downing the artillery spotter then becomes a "race against time" focus of tension for the dogfight between interceptor and escort; the attacker is really focused on keeping the interceptors away from the spotter, and obviously the defender must become hell-bent on breaking through to harass and/or destroy the spotter before it can finish the job. But of course the defender cannot simply ignore the escorts, either, as that could lead to the interceptors being shot down rather easily.

To make it all happen in a fun way, setup and plane balance is most likely pretty important; it may be the case that this scenario works best with larger tables and/or slower planes; will have to play it some more to know for sure.

Thanks again for the encouragement! :salute:

[surfimp]

We tried out the artillery spotting rules at our local boardgame group's game night and they worked out well!

Initial setup - Hablerstadt CL.II in position over the barrage target at the far side of the table, two Albatros D.III escorts at mid-table, and two Sopwith Triplane interceptors arriving from the near side of the table.
141157

The Halberstadt was able to get in two solid turns' worth of spotting over the enemy compound before one of the Tripehounds engaged it. Nearly there!
141158

The game then became a big dogfight with the Central Powers eventually managing to shoot down both the Triplanes. Good times!

The spotting mechanics worked well enough, but we'll continue to experiment with variations to see if we can come up with something even better. I will write up what we've got so far and share it in the Files section this weekend, with any luck.

[Naharaht]

Could we adapt Steve's method for use with an observation balloon, which has to be shot down before the target is destroyed?

[surfimp]

Could we adapt Steve's method for use with an observation balloon, which has to be shot down before the target is destroyed?

Seems like it would work fine to me, but my understanding was that the balloons would be pulled down when enemy aircraft were spotted. Anyways why not!! :)

[surfimp]

We've played a few more games using the artillery spotting rules and I feel like they're working out pretty well so long as the planes are setup per the above (interceptors on one side of table, escorts in middle, spotter on opposite edge of table from interceptors and already in position over target).

We played another game on the weekend with three Fokker D.VIIs trying to intercept an R.E. 8 with SE5a escorts.

At the end of the first turn, the artillery completely blow it and are way off target. R.E. 8 crew is not amused.
141252

Fokkers split up, presenting a Catch-22 to the SE5a escorts. The SE5as, being flown by proper British and Australian blokes, are unphased.
141253

The "dance of death" commences.
141254

The R.E. 8 crew are trying to decide whether their wireless is not functioning, or if this artillery crew needs to be sent back for more training.
141255

The Fokker vs SE5a dogfight continues. The yellow Fokker is sneaking past the escorts with an evil intent!
141256

Finally, a touch of success for the benighted R.E. 8 spotters.
141257

It's every man for himself!
141258

Just when things had been starting to turn around for the spotters, the Fokker looks to begin its attack run. One of the SE5a escorts is angling to intercept while the R.E. 8 crew looks on mostly helplessly.... or do they??
141259

The R.E. 8 pilot draws close to the yellow Fokker and rakes its fuselage with a punishing burst that sends it spiraling to the ground out of control. Perhaps not so helpless after all!
141260

Meanwhile, the other SE5as are getting the upper hand in the dogfight versus the other two D.VIIs.
141261

A close range snapshot results in a miss and then lucky hit! One of the D.VIIs banks over out of control, its dead pilot slumped at the controls.
141262

A duel commences... will the red and white Fokker take revenge for the loss of his comrades?
141263

NOPE! The other SE5a swoops back in on the Fokker's tail and in a stroke of unimaginable luck, manages to kills its pilot with one extremely well-placed long range shot (we play with double A decks... and yes, they were properly shuffled!!)
141264

All in all a very fun scenario!! :)

[Baxter]

Thank you for the idea. We played two games last night and they were incredibly long and intense! Biggles Downunder flew an RE8 and a defending Sop Triplane against my Halberstadt DII and Albatross DII in the first game. He managed to get 5 points against the target before both of my interceptors were shot down by his eagle eyed rear gunner! Second mission he flew a Rumpler with a DVa as escort and I attacked with two Hanriots. End result was that one of mine was shot down but I killed his Rumpler thus ending the mission. Very immersive, I never realised that time could pass so quickly :-)

[surfimp]

Thank you for the idea. We played two games last night and they were incredibly long and intense! Biggles Downunder flew an RE8 and a defending Sop Triplane against my Halberstadt DII and Albatross DII in the first game. He managed to get 5 points against the target before both of my interceptors were shot down by his eagle eyed rear gunner! Second mission he flew a Rumpler with a DVa as escort and I attacked with two Hanriots. End result was that one of mine was shot down but I killed his Rumpler thus ending the mission. Very immersive, I never realised that time could pass so quickly :-)

That sounds like a good time, to me!! Thank you very much for trying out the scenario.

If you have any feedback to make them better, I'm all ears. :salute:

[surfimp]

I've submitted a file containing these rules in PDF format. Assuming they are approved, look for them in the Files section soon :)

In the meantime, you can see a copy here:
http://www.sbwings.com/downloads/wog_spotting_rules.pdf

Should be good for printing on A4 or 8.5 x 11 paper.

[flash]

Very nicely done Steve :thumbsup:

[Пилот]

Very good idea, I'll give it a try for sure!

[surfimp]

Glad to hear it!

We've played a number of games with these artillery rules and they're proving to be really fun. It seems like having an equal number of scouts for both sides works the best in terms of excitement, i.e. 3 interceptors vs 3 escorts guarding 1 spotter plane.

When there are an equal number of interceptors vs escorts, the "race against time" gameplay element of the scenario is maximized. It's a race for the interceptors to break free of the escorts to prevent the spotter from succeeding, and by the same token, a race for the spotter to stay on station and get the job done before coming under attack.

The interceptors have to decide whether to risk running past the escorts (and getting shot in the back by them) to attack the spotter, or to try to shoot down the escorts as quickly as possible and then try to get the spotter before it can finish its task. Likewise the escorts have to decide carefully on their tactics, as it's quite easy to get left behind if the interceptors try to punch through and pounce on the spotter plane. Obviously relative plane performance is important too.

It makes for a neat tactical challenge to solve. I hope you enjoy it! Post back with your findings if you like.

[Grey]

Altitude considerations for spotting? Can't be too high or too low.

[surfimp]

Altitude considerations for spotting? Can't be too high or too low.

If playing with altitude rules, pretty sure you'd need to be at level 1 for spotting, based on what I've read. Maybe level 2 but no higher than that.

[Banana Joe]

Tried out you Artilleryspotting-idea today.
Was quite a success. We took one B-card for every maneuver in range instead of your A card every round.
It was a really close game. I couldn't prevent the shelling of the target by "that" much.....
Fun idea. Thanks for that!
The Target for today: Hendecourt. (Just circled with a marker on my map-mat)
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/Omawari_San/DSC_0120_zps7akmj1ci.jpg
The start:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/Omawari_San/DSC_0119_zpsulx0mkd0.jpg
During the fight:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/Omawari_San/DSC_0128_zpswwzncwep.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/Omawari_San/DSC_0136_zpsvwtyavzw.jpg

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Looks as if this idea is pretty well refined now.
I will give it a try on my next outing for a spotting mission.
Thanks for all the work and feedback Steve.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Just spotted your Rep level Steve.
I have put you in for your 50 point medal.
Rob.

[surfimp]

Banana Joe, looks like a fun game! Glad it worked out well.

And Rob, thanks much! Nice to have a bit of flash under my SPAD :)

[Banana Joe]

@Surfimp: I try to express my thanks by getting you in my sights of my Pfalz D12 in Rof. ;)