Other airplanes with Le Prieur rockets

[Attila57]

In Balloon Busters and Burning Drachens expansion sets there are Nieuports cards or minis to fulfil scenario with Le Prieur rockets.

But other airplanes were equipped with this weaponry during WWI.

Does anyone use SPAD XIII or SE5a cards or customize/repaint minis to fulfil this kind of mission? What about rules?

Regards

Attilio

[Oberst Hajj]

I've not heard of anyone using other planes, but the rules should not change.

[Asbestos]

Not the best source ever, but wikipedia lists several other planes as carrying them:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Prieur_rocket?wasRedirected=true

[Attila57]

Thanks for your kind answers.

I refer mainly for SPAD to some pictures into the Opsrey Balloon-Busting Aces of World War 1 book:

-SPAD XIII of Sous-Lt Maurice Jean-Paul Boyau, SPA77, Fère-en-Tardenois, spring 1918 (rocket aren't inclined like in Nieuport)
-SPAD VII if Sous-Lt Georges Lachmann, N581, Kamenets-Podolsk, autumn 1917 (rocket are inclined like in Nieuport)

Se 5A could be a my mistake (I don't find the source where I read it and the long lateral tailpipes can fool in pictures or photos)

I found a nice web page dedicated to Le Prieur

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/le_prieur.html

with, at the end, curious infos about BE 12 airplanes with Le Prieur Rockets fitted on used for nocturnal defense of Great Britain in the First World War. Their unrealistic target was Zeppelin (no victory).

There's a nice picture of BE 12, 50 Sqdn., Dover, UK, 1916

Attilio

[Oberst Hajj]

That's a great link Attilio!

[Akosion]

Attilio, nice link, thank you!
If you want to "put the shoe on the other foot", the Germans also tried rockets -copies of the Le Prieur system, I believe. There's photos of a Halberstadt D-type fitted with the racks.
best regards
Aris K.

[Attila57]

Thanks Colonel! Thanks Aris!

It's very interesting your info about the Halberstadt D-type rocket weaponry. Where can I find these photos?

I found other infos about SPAD on an italian web site There isn't a photo of a SPAD with rockets (Le Prieur rockets are detailed in the article) but there's a photo of a two seater SPAD XI (!):

http://www.aereimilitari.org/Storia/IGM/SPAD-VII-XIII_2.htm

Another interesting italian web site with a Nieuport/Le Pieur photo is:

http://www.aspeterpan.com/book1/fr107.htm

There isn't an english version of this site but there are a great number of photos and pictures of WWI aces and airplanes.

The quoted book:

"Da qualche parte tra le nuvole. Il «Barone Rosso», Garros, Nungesser"
(Somewhere in the clouds. The «Red Baron», Garros, Nungesser"

is one of my next estimated purchase.

Attilio

[Akosion]

Attilio, here we go:
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad175/akosion/HalberstadtWithRockets.jpg
The photographs are taken at Doberitz, either during display or evaluation. Frontline evaluation took place in the last two weeks of October 1916. This was unsuccessfull, and the system was not tested again.
Photos and information are from the Windsock book on the Halberstadt fighters.
Aris K.

[Attila57]

Thanks for the interesting photos.

I'm finding a lot of infos, photos and pictures in italian web sites dedicated to WWI.

It's a pity they don't provide an english version.

Attilio

[Oberst Hajj]

Google Translate works pretty well... once we have found out about the site that is.

[Attila57]

:)

In a nutshell, look at these:

http://www.lagrandeguerra.net/index.asp

The speech you listen when you open the home page is the Generl Armando Diaz voice reading of the first part of Italian Voctory Release (4/11/1918)

(see also http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IT&hl=it&v=zpnlIvBeFcc)

There's an Aviation section under Tecnologia: Cronology, Pilots, Airplanes, Airship and Drachens. Some nice photos and picture and some interesting infos.

http://www.aspeterpan.com/index.htm

This site hiddens a lot of nice pages about WWI Aviation

Click on the book image in the right bottom corner (scroll the page). The book is "Somewhere in the clouds", a nice WWI aviation history book.

From the dedicated page you can open a lot of pages clicking on the photos and pictures. I already indicated a page of this site in my previous post because there are some infos about Le Prieur rockets weaponry usage.

http://www.finn.it/regia/html/grande_guerra.htm

A site dedicates to Regia Aeronautica history with a section about WWI, of course.

An english language site I think you already know is:

http://www.wwi-models.org/

[Attila57]

A wondefull photo of a photografic equipment on a airship and some other infos at:

http://www.fotostorica.it/Pagine/FTST/dossiers/21-22.htm

The article (like others) seems disprove the Nexus assertion that Italy doesn't use balloons during WWI (http://www.wingsofwar.it/read.asp?id=3519).

http://www.fotostorica.it/Pagine/FTST/dossiers/21-22.htm

And if you like a Italian Balloon observer helmet:

http://www.mymilitaria.it/liste_03/osservatore.htm

Attilio

[Attila57]

and from a diary of a combatant

http://www.primaguerramondiale.org/Diario-di-Mario-Fiore/02-Maggio-1918.html

... austrian drachen very high on the horizon, artillery shrapnel fire, an airplane shot down over Piave and a drachen or a ballon shot down ...

[IRM]

Lots of very interesting photos, thanks for posting the links.

[Attila57]

Thanks Ian

There's an italian web site dedicated to the austrian airport of Motta di Livenza.

http://www.mottadilivenza.biz/index1/directory/altro/aerocampo.htm

In aerial combats in the skies over this airport William George Barker (also a ballon buster aces) shotted down some enemy airplanes while Ernst Strohschneider, an austrian ace, perished during a landing.

Some pictures, some photos.The page text is really interesting.

[Angiolillo]

The article (like others) seems disprove the Nexus assertion that Italy doesn't use balloons during WWI (http://www.wingsofwar.it/read.asp?id=3519).

Sorry, the English version of the article is clearer:
http://www.wingsofwar.it/read.asp?id=3520

I did not mean to say that Italians did not use balloons - actually I even put the Avorio Prassone in the previously released Burning Drachens... I just meant that they (...we...) did not use national markings on them!

[Attila57]

Andrea,

we have fully clarified the interpretation of the assertion in our recent meeting. :D

I hope that the book that I recommended you come face some new ideas. What do you think about a scenario with a motorized balloon?

Attilio

[Angiolillo]

True, I was only telling the other readers. It was my fault, the Italian version of the text is actually very ambiguous.

I definitely have to think about a motorized Avorio Prassone for a scenary... ;)

[Attila57]

True, I was only telling the other readers. It was my fault, the Italian version of the text is actually very ambiguous.

I definitely have to think about a motorized Avorio Prassone for a scenary... ;)

Andrea,

actually I must apologize for not being aware of the presence of the card in Burning Drachens (I own only the boxes with the miniatures). I referred only to what was written on the site in the italian section and I didn't read the english text. The passion for WWI history and a little of patriotism finally complicated thinghs! ;)

A motorized Avorio Prassone could be a nice scenario with a correct interpretation of the use that was made ​​of the engine. So the mission could be not only to defend the balloon....

Attilio

[csadn]

I definitely have to think about a motorized Avorio Prassone for a scenary... ;)

That's essentially what Britain's observation blimps were -- a (barely) aerodynamic gasbag, with a gondola made from a wrecked BE2 (with the pilot's seat and controls turned 180 degrees, no less). Goofiest-looking things I ever saw.

[Diamondback]

Yeah, there's an idea!

Balloon Busters Volume 2: Parseval-Sigsfeld balloons in British and German colors and two different rocketed Halberstadts to balance the two N16's...

[Attila57]

That's essentially what Britain's observation blimps were -- a (barely) aerodynamic gasbag, with a gondola made from a wrecked BE2 (with the pilot's seat and controls turned 180 degrees, no less). Goofiest-looking things I ever saw.

With Andrea we are referring to a motorized balloon used by italian in WWI described in a nice book about balloons (see this post http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?2885-Ballons-An-italian-book&highlight=palloni+della+guerra)

The motorized ballon of mc 1130 was the same used used as a kite balloon but with a Anzani 40-50 HP engine so to move it with a speed of 35 km/hour burning 15Kg/hour of petrol.

It was use like a little airship with the engine and petrol tank into a metallic gondola to reduce the time of an observation mission preparation and dislocation.

The Avorio-Prassone balloon was different from Caquot, with his diameter m. 11,46 Lebght m. 22,46, and fromt the italian airship M-1 as you can see in this nice drawing I found at http://feixinghistory.blogspot.com/2009/06/balloon-and-airship-1912-1915.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XR31u8j0EYw/SjzfyEW9AJI/AAAAAAAAGvE/jrP8k_6SIVI/s400/Avorio-Prassone+Balloon_resize.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XR31u8j0EYw/Sjzfx-obhmI/AAAAAAAAGu8/QI3gEBdVkyg/s400/Caquot+Balloon_resize.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XR31u8j0EYw/SjzfxpZD4XI/AAAAAAAAGu0/-xU9wmpziIU/s400/M-1_resize.jpg

Yo can see a picture at this link: http://www.avia-it.com/act/album_foto/avianew_album_foto_4_pag1.asp

The book is very nice, with a lot of pictures of balloons, technical drawings and info.
Attilio

[csadn]

With Andrea we are referring to a motorized balloon used by italian in WWI described in a nice book about balloons (see this post http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?2885-Ballons-An-italian-book&highlight=palloni+della+guerra)

Hm -- my copy of _Battlebags_ details the British blimps; the SS.3 was the one with the gondola made from a old, dead BE2 (the later C-Star was made from two BE2 fuselages stuck together tail-to-tail).

[Linz]

Just to add something else to this thread. How about rockets fitted to a Farman F40P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farman_F.40
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/Nieuport/Various/Farman-F40P.jpg
Yep they did exsist. No doubt the Farman would go backwards when the rockets where fired
Linz

[Attila57]

Nice pictures, Lindsay

[Angiolillo]

Nice indeed! ;)

Here a Sopwith Pup (from the Shuttleworth collection) and a Farman HF-20/21:

http://clubs.ya.ru/4611686018427443301/replies.xml?item_no=569&nocookiesupport=yes

(pistures don't show)

Here a Be2e with rockets from the 33 Squadron of the Home Defence:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/general/p12449-be2e-armed-with-4-le-prieur-rockets-jpg.html

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/watermark.php?file=12449&size=1

Here a Caudron G.4 (but for training):

http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/Ecoles_Chateauroux.htm

http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/Photos_As_et_Personnel/Cottave_Paul/Chateauroux_G4_LePrieur.jpg

For the Camel a profile, a model and a scheme:

http://www.wwiaviation.com/drawings/sopwith-camel-N5-600px.png

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/images/sopwith_camel_pc12_1_350.jpg

http://sped2work.tripod.com/leprieur0.gif

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks again Andrea, Attilio et al. Very interesting, and makes my remarks in the other thread I started obosolete, as it confirms everything, and backs up the use of rockets by the Germans.
Rob.

[Attila57]

Rob,

I'm sure you visited the Shuttleworth Museum in England where there is Nieuport with rockets.

I found these pictures at this link http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5021041/anchors_5031768/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#5031768:

http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/thumbnails/59126/Xv63314.jpg (http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/59126/Xv63314.jpg)http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/thumbnails/59126/Wr55772.jpg (http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/59126/Wr55772.jpg)http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/thumbnails/59126/Yd81795.jpg (http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/59126/Yd81795.jpg)http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/thumbnails/59126/Rl24992.jpg (http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/59126/Rl24992.jpg)

[Linz]

Flip at the angle of those rockets you would just about need to be underneath the balloon to hit it.
Linz

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Flip at the angle of those rockets you would just about need to be underneath the balloon to hit it.
Linz

Must be angled to allow for trajectory, plus the fact that when the plane is airborne the tail will be up.
Rob.

[Attila57]

Flip at the angle of those rockets you would just about need to be underneath the balloon to hit it.
Linz

At this link:

http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/knights-of-the-air-le-prieur

you can see some pictures of Nieuports with rockets. There are an original picture of a Nieuport and the museum airplane picture in the same postion As you can see the angle is correct considering the tail up

[Angiolillo]

Yes, rockets tended not to go straight and the trajectory curved down. That's why they were aimed up but you would fire them at the same or higher altitude, and pretty close.

http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic85901_md.jpg

[Linz]

They remind me of a row of musketeers so long as you have a big target hopefully something will hit it
Linz

[Attila57]

They remind me of a row of musketeers so long as you have a big target hopefully something will hit it
Linz

..... and hoping not to go inside the balloon while it exploded like Giovanni Ancillotto (he survived!)

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/187905_137326323006774_3976518_n.jpg