Explosion.

[Hjortfot]

The explosion card is not funny but we always play with it, I buy it that when someone shoot at you and he/her hit the tank and it all explode.

But with 2 beer´s in my brain I came up with this houserule, when you take the explosion card shuffle your cards you play with in the turn and fly on, and/or maybe treat it as same effect as jamming "3 manuver cards".

If you get explosion as the last card in a turn choose 3 new card for the next turn and shuffle, and fly on but maybe not as you want.

If you get it on first card shuffle all three card draw two and fly on.

If you get it as second card in a turn shuffle the 2 used cards and the 3:rd and draw one of these and use it as the last card in the turn.

Just a thought I had maybe useful or not, I hope you understand.

Over and out.

[Oberst Hajj]

We play with the explosion as well, but we leave it as an "instant out" card. As Andrea has mentioned in other discussions, the explosion card does not just represent an actually explosion. It was meant to cover any of the many many things that could cause a plane to leave the action immediately. This could a real explosion, a completely destroyed engine, one of the wings folding in half, the fuel line being cut or a hole in the tank. Any number of things could bring one of these crates to the ground and the explosion card covers them all (remember, the rules are pretty simple and that's one of the reasons we all like this game so much).

While drawing that card is not fun, as long as you remember that it's random and everyone gets it eventually, it still makes the game fun.

[WilliamBarkerVC]

Our group also uses the explosion card as is. It is the envy of all who play to draw that card, as it draws great laughter and derision from the other players to the player who was lucky enough to have blown up!

[Charlie3]

I have asked our group more than once if they want to remove the explosion card from the game...they may grumble and complain about it but not one of them wants to remove it!! I see it as a great equalizer cause no D VII or Snipe can survive that card! Although we usually allow a spawn plane to enter the combat area if a player goes out in the first 3 game turns, everybody loves to hate the explosion cards.

[Max Headroom]

I leave in the explosion card, but only apply if the plane is already on fire, otherwise it's a zero. I realise what it's supposed to do, but it's just too random especially if you only have a few damage points...

[Hjortfot]

We played yesterday and one looser draw explosion each match we played, but no discusion on take away the explosion card...just keep on flying.

My houserule was just an idea.

Over and out.

[Oberst Hajj]

I think most people are fine with playing with it. It really is a love/hate affair with it and adds a lot of fun to our games... as your rival wishes the card on you as he shoots you!

[Davot]

I'm going to give those dice charts a try. See what happens when explosion is an option for every player at the table.:cool:

[Stoff]

What we do is that when someone gets the explosion card is that it and the rest of that players damage cards get shuffled back into the damage deck.

Christoph

[Charlie3]

What we do is that when someone gets the explosion card is that it and the rest of that players damage cards get shuffled back into the damage deck.

Christoph
We do the same thing when anyone goes down. We shuffle them in before the next maneuver card, and the next person to draw has the option of cutting the deck first.

Last night I FINALLY got a British Ace pilot (I usually have to play the side that needs a pilot for game balance) and got an Ace Skill. Got to use the skill once to shoot down another enemy and took a lucky 1 card hit from a new player. GUESS what card it was...Everyone thought I would be mad but I really liked the story line of the pilot that was careful and worked his way up to Ace Status and in a moment of carelessness lost his life, I think it mirrors the actual events of the war!

[krolik]

The group that usually play with has converted from using the damage decks to using chips, like in DoW.

We printed out, and glued onto small poker chips, stickers with the same damages for each of the A,B, & C decks. Put them in bags and when you take damage, you draw the appropriate amount of chips, look at them and record the damage, and return them to the bag.

We went to this because we were getting some pretty gamey situations where the explosion card hadn't been drawn yet, and the damage deck was getting down near the end, so you'd know that it was coming up soon.

By drawing chips and returning them to the bag, we've changed the damage frequency a bit, but not that you'd notice. We've been playing this way for over a year and found the the explode chip is drawn less frequently, but there's still plenty of planes being shot down.

[Jmac]

My last two games I drew the explosion card. Both times on undamaged planes. The last time didn't bother me that much but the time before that ... I was very perturbed.

Here is why, I was at my game club and as the day was ending I asked three other guys if they wanted to play Wings of War. One had played once before but the other two never had. I explained the rules, gave out equal planes and we got started. Turn 2 or maybe 3, a long shot at me and I draw the explosion card. I spent the next 45 minutes helping the other three play MY game. :mad:

I know this adds nothing to the thread, I just want to vent. Even so, I still leave it in the deck.

Although, I am intrigued by the reusable poker chip concept. :)

[Pooh]

We always left the explosion card in until I took my decks (and the rest of my stuff) to a gaming convention. Because I was trying to teach people the game, I took them out and forgot to put them back in for the next game with my group. The group I game with liked the game better without them so we haven't put them back in.

Pooh

[Dathbain]

I really like the Explosion card, I laugh when it comes out either on my plane or another! Try this next time you play and you take damage, say " Man I hope I dont get the explosion card!" Because almost everytime I say that or "I hope you get the explosion card!" I always end up with it!

[KirkH]

We don't use it mainly because we don't like the random, premature end it brings to games. I'd probably include it if there were more damage cards so it wouldn't appear so often.

[timbokc]

The group of guys that I played with were torn on that card. We voted and by one vote decided to keep it in play.

I thought that as a good compromise that seemed to work good for us was that if your plane was undamaged and you drew the explosion card then it counted as 10pts damage. Otherwise, if you were already shot up some then it was played as normal.

We sometimes had as many as 8 people playing and it was kind of frustrating to get shot down in the first couple of turns by a lucky bullet.

[usmc1855]

Realistically, (though rare on occasion) a lucky bullet fired in the first engagement just might find it's mark and kill a pilot, or disable an engine. I like the way the game Designer described what the card is supposed to represent... not merely a catastrophic explosion, but anything that would cause the plane to immediately be disabled, such as a wing collapsing, a pilot killed, etc.

In other miniature airplane rules, this is equivalent to die roll resulting in critical damage, then on the critical damage chart, you roll box cars.... :eek:

In our game on Tuesday night, my brother was trying to defend a Balloon when he collided with the enemy plane he was trying to interdict. He took damage, from that mid-air collision but survived..... but then his next maneuver had him collide with the balloon. He again survived the collision damage, but the Balloon drew the dreaded explosion card, and since his plane was in contact he took an additional 'D' damage card from that catastrophic explosion, which finally brought him down.

[timbokc]

I agree with most people here and I prefer to keep the card as is, but at the same time since most of my groups gaming sessions were over lunch at the office we never played anything to involved.

Basically it came down to WoW is a really fun and simple game but getting instant KO'd 5 minutes in kind of ruined it for the player who unsuccessfully caught a mg round with his teeth.

Realistically, thats life but we just did the compromise to enhance our lunch hour.

I have to admit though that the whiners who hated that card brought me the most enjoyment when they drew it after I shot one of them. hehe

[Charlie3]

The Explosion card is the great equalizer in the game.

[Jmac]

In our game on Tuesday night, my brother was trying to defend a Balloon when he collided with the enemy plane he was trying to interdict. He took damage, from that mid-air collision but survived..... but then his next maneuver had him collide with the balloon. He again survived the collision damage, but the Balloon drew the dreaded explosion card, and since his plane was in contact he took an additional 'D' damage card from that catastrophic explosion, which finally brought him down.

Was he Flying for the French as Sous-Lieutenant Clouseau? :)

[Charlie3]

Was he Flying for the French as Sous-Lieutenant Clouseau? :)Touche! The more I thought about this the funnier it got!:D:D

[kannoneer]

I like the card because as it has been said before, most of us like the game because it is simple. Think about it thoes guys were flying around on a motor covered with wood and canvas and a fuel tank. I dont think it would take alot to take one down.
We played a game two weeks ago where I was attacking a airfield. I ended up taking out two Nieuports on the ground with one run. Its just the luck of the draw.

[Pseudotheist]

My last two games I drew the explosion card. Both times on undamaged planes. The last time didn't bother me that much but the time before that ... I was very perturbed.

Here is why, I was at my game club and as the day was ending I asked three other guys if they wanted to play Wings of War. One had played once before but the other two never had. I explained the rules, gave out equal planes and we got started. Turn 2 or maybe 3, a long shot at me and I draw the explosion card. I spent the next 45 minutes helping the other three play MY game. :mad:

Just be happy one of the new players didn't draw it; think how they would've felt. That's why I always take it out in games with new players.

[Ace of the Reich]

When I play with my group we decide before the game to use the explosion card and if we play with new players we always take out the explosion card so they don't end up drawing one early in the game and becoming frustrated.

[DAKorps]

Knights of the Air

Can I direct you to the similarly themed thread

Using dice for Damage?

[Grinneth42]

Just be happy one of the new players didn't draw it; think how they would've felt. That's why I always take it out in games with new players.

This is also why I've taken out all special damages (excepting jams) when introducing people to the game... I already get taunted if I win 'my game'... I don't need to add to it by allowing anyone to get blown up before we really start! And truth be told, every time I play this way, the only pilot who's gun jams is mine...

[Carlos Lopes]

Hello,

In our group we don’t use the “Explosion Card”, because it brings always disinterest in the rest of the game, and tend to unbalance de game, without a real expertise or effort of the player.

Now I’m playing with decimal dices, and the probability of getting any “card” is equal for everyone during all the game.

Using the spirit of the rules (the designer described what the card is supposed to represent... not merely a catastrophic explosion, but anything that would cause the plane to immediately be disabled, such as a wing collapsing, a pilot killed, etc.) when we get a “explosion card” the aeroplane is inoperative but the pilot is not immediately kill. We throw another par of decimal dices, taking the outcome at the table of “deck D”.

The aeroplane tacks the additional “D damage” and only if there is an explosion the aeroplane is brought down and the pilot killed. In other situation it takes a crash landing or lives the table game, but the pilot survives!

[Steve]

I've been experimenting with a house rule that makes the explosion cards worth one more point than the highest damage card in that deck. For example in the "A" Deck it's a 6 point card and in the "B" deck its a 5 point card. I did this after having a few players shot down instantly in undamaged planes at very early stages in the battle. Unfortunately this happened in a few games played consecutively and the result left some potential new players feeling left out of the game. The house rule still makes the card bad to receive, but lets undamaged planes continue to fly and thus participate. Personally I don't mind leaving them is as an instant kill, but after seeing the effect this has on beginners, I compromised and made them slightly less deadly. Likely I will end up adding a point more damage to them so they would be 7 points in the "A" deck and 6 points in the "B" deck. Seems to work pretty well so far.

[Oberst Hajj]

Why not just make them a consistent 10 points? Would be easier to keep track of and would kill almost any damaged plane half way through a game. You could even swap it out with the C damage card that way.

[krolik]

Or you could leave it in the deck and allow new players to fly in another plane.

[Ana Lopes]

I think that the "explosion card" is no replaceable when we are playing a solo game, but it can be replaced as Carlos said.

We do it in our group. By the way we use to play with 2 airplanes for each player.


Bye

[Dan-Sam]

We usually play without explosion cards and without replacements - share of unluck is too big for us.

[Cpt Thomas Spencer Howdy]

I flies mit Krolik, und manchmal against him.

As he noted we use the Explode card, or in our case the Explode chit. Early on the group discussed the question, and most of us decided to play with it.

We did come up with an interesting interpretation of it. The question was brought up of just how often in reality planes were literally exploding, and we decided that, rather than literally being an exploding plane, it instead represented catastrophic failure to a degree that the plane went down. This could be exploding, or the wings ripping or being shot off, or the structural integrity of the plane degrading to the point that it breaks in half, or he just intersected the flight path of a 250mm howitzer shell. Of course the result is the same-- a dead pilot and a destroyed plane.

[SgtWaka]

I've been interested too see what everyone else does on this card. I generally fly with 2 planes ,so i will leave the card in and the chances of drawing it twice is slim. But,.. if everyone is just using one plane, a big mob of blokes playing, then the card may be removed from the deck. Some people just have to have it. It matters not to me as i don't wish to make the game any more difficult. I've got too many other wargames that are difficult enough to follow.

[Charlie3]

I still enjoy the thrill and suspence when you have to draw damage cards...Will I get it? Take a deep breath and DRAW!! :D:D

[Cruthers]

I tend not to use it in my group. It tends to kill the thrill of a dogfight if someone draws it 1st card in an undamaged plane.

[sparty]

It's an important card in my opinion because it's the great equalizer. Everyone is bound to have it pulled as a damage card at some point. Given the unrepeatable nature of battle just looking at averages to inform the game is pretty vanilla...the best stories are from the wild stuff that happens!

[Charlie3]

It's an important card in my opinion because it's the great equalizer. Everyone is bound to have it pulled as a damage card at some point. Given the unrepeatable nature of battle just looking at averages to inform the game is pretty vanilla...the best stories are from the wild stuff that happens! Such as our games tonight. (I just got back)
One of our regulars drew the explosion card 4 times in 4 games!! His number must have been up cause he has not seen that card in about a month.
In one game we traded 2 card shots on the first pass and I thought I would do him a favor and draw first...I drew an explosion, but so did he! (we are playing 4 on 4 combats so we have double damage decks) Great laughs all around including him.:D

[LGKR]

Such as our games tonight. (I just got back)
One of our regulars drew the explosion card 4 times in 4 games!! His number must have been up cause he has not seen that card in about a month.
In one game we traded 2 card shots on the first pass and I thought I would do him a favor and draw first...I drew an explosion, but so did he! (we are playing 4 on 4 combats so we have double damage decks) Great laughs all around including him.:D

I really hope that I have gotten all those explosions out my system now. That was pretty funny though.

[krolik]

One of the best explosion moments in our group was one time when Don & I were drawing damage for a collision we both drew the expolosion. :eek: (we use a chit method, so the damage token goes back in the bag)

That must have been one nasty head on collision.

[check6]

i recently was facing a new player with 3 spits against 3 me-109s, using the recycle chits method. game begins with us playing high speed chicken with guns blazing. i draw for damage, and all 3 of my spitfires promptly explod :eek:. that said, i am seriously considering putting the explodes back in due to it being the great equalizer. it may be just what we need to get the spits back on par with the me-109s.

[sparty]

That's hilarious...1st draw and 2 explosions. Too bad you guys didn't decide to play the lottery...

Where in Traverse City do you guys play at? (I went to Michigan State..hence Sparty)

My in-laws have a cottage up at spooky Sugarloaf...so if I'm up there at some point and you guys happen to be up for a game I may be able to swing down in Traverse and get a game. Sounds like you've got a great group.

[LGKR]

That's hilarious...1st draw and 2 explosions. Too bad you guys didn't decide to play the lottery...

Where in Traverse City do you guys play at? (I went to Michigan State..hence Sparty)

My in-laws have a cottage up at spooky Sugarloaf...so if I'm up there at some point and you guys happen to be up for a game I may be able to swing down in Traverse and get a game. Sounds like you've got a great group.

Currently we play at Mayhem Games on Tuesday nights. Mayhem is near Chums Corners just south of Traverse City.

[sparty]

Cool man. Next time I'm up in MI, late summer probably, I'll have to PM ya and see if I can get into a game.

[Charlie3]

Cool man. Next time I'm up in MI, late summer probably, I'll have to PM ya and see if I can get into a game.Hey Great! Go to www.gamingforacure.webs.com to get information on our local gaming event that will be in Aug. Hope to fly with you sometime!

[sparty]

Nice website for a great cause. I wish you guys the best success. Looks like there's a ton of gaming going on in TC that I had no idea about....Guess it won't matter when I'm up at Sugar Loaf.

Any of those places have a grill on hand? I could swing by Pleva's and grab some cherry sausages and we could have a good ole time!

So...quick question... what container is this:

http://gamingforacure.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=69128873

I've got a similar Plano, but that one looks slightly bigger (taller) than what I've got.

[Charlie3]

Nice website for a great cause. I wish you guys the best success. Looks like there's a ton of gaming going on in TC that I had no idea about....Guess it won't matter when I'm up at Sugar Loaf.

Any of those places have a grill on hand? I could swing by Pleva's and grab some cherry sausages and we could have a good ole time!

So...quick question... what container is this:

http://gamingforacure.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=69128873

I've got a similar Plano, but that one looks slightly bigger (taller) than what I've got. My grill is always open for anything from Pleva's!!
The plano box is model #1372series according to the imprint inside the top.
I would imagine you can find it at www.planomolding.com also imprinted inside the top. We have purchased them from a local sporting goods store called MC sports. I am not sure if they are a Michigan chain or a national one, but I have not seen it in other stores.

[sparty]

I LOVED MC Sports...sadly they don't have em down here.

I actually picked up a Field & Stream 360 Tackle Bag, which comes with 6 planos and are the perfect size and stack nicely with a bunch of pockets for things...

I'll have to keep my eyes open for that model you posted though...I'm always looking!!!

[rcboater]

I understand the idea of taking the explosion card out of the deck when teaching beginners-- so a beginner isn't discouraged early in a game.

However, the opposite is that the one scoring the kill gets the thrill of victory......

[sparty]

For new players it's kinda fun if they're playing against each other I would think. It would probably seem unkind to dole it out as a more experienced player. Maybe just say "beginner's luck" saves them the first time they see it, but use it to explain the rule and your take on why you play with the card?

[Kashirigi]

I don't like the explosion card; I usually play with it removed. That said, in my very first game I ended up winning due to it, so I suppose I owe it a debt of gratitude.

After that game I went and purchased the game for myself and apparently never looked back.

[Steve]

I recently played two planes in a game at a convention.. The first time both planes took damage, they both pulled the explosion card (in the same turn). Additionally another pilot on the same side received the explosion card on the following turn. (This was two A decks "shuffled" together) I can guess that the cards were not well shuffled or that it was just an amazingly rare set of events, but when this happens, I have to question leaving the cards in the damage decks. It can actually sway the game balance quite dramatically when one side loses three planes almost instantly, especially on turn 3 or 4 as in the case above. On one hand its exciting to have the explosion cards in play, but they all too often come out as the first damage card is pulled for a plane. This has hit me 5+ times over the past few months and I don't get to play all that often. I don't like pulling the cards from the mix as it seems to mess up the odds of taking damage from the deck. I have used them as 10 point cards or as 1 point higher than the highest card in damage deck. I have also considered pulling the same number of "0" cards from the deck to balance it out if the explosion cards are removed. After observing the chaos these cards can create in a convention game and with players, I am leaning toward making them all worth 7 points of damage. Additionally if you get it while on fire it really is an explosion. This makes it a bad card to pull but allows the player some possibility of recovery or escape. I really think how its played should depend on the game being played. If its a few friends at the house or the local game store, I'd leave them in and played per the rules. At a large convention game or in a campaign, I'd think about modifying the rules a bit like making them a 7 point damage card. When introducing new players, I'd pull them out of the deck altogether.

[krolik]

Play how you want to play. Our group leaves the explosion in, it represents sudden catastrophic events that cause your plane to crash, from explosion to getting a bullet between the eyes.:eek:

It evens out over the long run. Remember this game was designed for 1 to 2 planes on a side, if you fly more than that, you need to add more damage decks, that evens out the explosions.

[mobley_p38]

Explosion cards are a definite Yea for me as they add the realistic probability of a plane going down due to a catastrophic failure of some sort after an engagement. I too prefer to use the damage counters in more of like "Scrabble tile" fashion where they are randomly drawn from a bag (1 bag for A counters, 1 bag for B counters, etc). I find it's best to try to keep the damage tiles in proper proportion of planes, so the initial probability of different types of damage remains the same for various engagements. Otherwise, as others have posted the counters get stacked unfavorably or favorably.

[csadn]

I don't use the "BOOM card" at all -- I cannot express the depths of my loathing for "instant death" rules in games forcefully enough without violating local anti-profanity strictures. I believe there *is* a place for "zero to dead", but it should only be a result of the application of Overkill (for ex., a Nieuport 11 attacks a ground target, and takes a C-deck hit -- *that* is legitimate "instant death", if it draws a bignum card). However, by and large, an E.I should not be able to defeat a SPAD 13, even by luck-of-the-draw.

[Oberst Hajj]

However, by and large, an E.I should not be able to defeat a SPAD 13, even by luck-of-the-draw.

So, it is not possible for the bullets fired from the E.I to hit and kill the pilot of a SPAD 13 on the first firing pass of the E.I?

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I hated the explosion card for a while. However, the more that one reads of the exploits of the airmen of the time, the more one realizes that "falling out of the sky" for one reason or another, was an every day occurrence. Therefore, it should be reflected in our play. I didn't just say that, did I? :eek:
Rob.

[LGKR]

So, it is not possible for the bullets fired from the E.I to hit and kill the pilot of a SPAD 13 on the first firing pass of the E.I?


...or penatrate the fuel tank. :eek:

I find the fear/hate of the explosion card funny. Last week I lost one of my double aces to it. It's part of the fun and it's the great equalizer. A green pilot still has the chance of dropping an ace.

[usmc1855]

I posted this several months ago in the Historical Discussions section:

It's a reminder that even the best pilot/plane can be shot down by even the oldest, most obsolete plane, on the first pass ... so yes... use of the explosion cards are relevant and proper for Wings of War:

6 July, 1917. A flight of obsolescent FE2ds was ambushed by Richthofen and a number of other pilots from Jagdgeschwader 1. In the fight that followed two of the German Albatros scouts attacked head-on an FE2d piloted by Captain Donald Cunnell accompanied by his observer Second Lieutenant Albert Woodbridge, who would not forget the encounter that ensued:


I recall there wasn't a thing on that machine that wasn't red, and God, how he could fly! I opened fire with the front Lewis and so did Cunnell with the side gun. Cunnell held the FE to her course, and so did the pilot of the all-red scout. Gad, with our combined speeds, we must have been approaching each other at somewhere around 250mph. Thank God my Lewis didn't jam. I kept a steady stream of lead pouring into the nose of that machine. He was firing also. I could see my tracers splashing along the barrels of his Spandaus and I knew the pilot was sitting right behind them. His lead came whistling by my head and ripping holes in my 'bathtub'. Then something happened. We could hardly have been 20 yards apart when the Albatros pointed her nose down suddenly. Zip, and she passed under us. Cunnell banked and turned. We saw the all-red plane slip into a spin. It turned over and over and round and round. It was no maneuver. He was completely out of control. His motor was going full-on, so I figured I had at least wounded him. Second Lieutenant Albert Woodbridge, 20 SquadronRichthofen left his own account of his defeat during this encounter;


I watched as the observer, obviously excited, shot at me. I calmly let him fire, for his best marksmanship would not have helped at a distance of 300 meters. One just does not score at that distance! Now he turned on me completely and I hoped to get behind him in the next turn to burn his hide. Suddenly I received a blow on my head! I was hit! For a moment my whole body was completely paralyzed. My hands dropped to the side and my legs dangled in the fuselage. The worst part was that the blow on the head affected my optic nerve and I was completely blinded. The machine plunged down. For a moment it flashed through my head that this is the way it looks just before death. I doubted if the wings could stand the strain, and I expected they would break off at any moment. I did not loose consciousness immediately. I fought to regain control of my arms and legs so that i could grasp the control stick. I managed to shut off the fuel and the ignition. But wold that alone help me? I had moved my eyes around and taken my goggles off, but it was impossible too see even the sun. I was completely blinded. The seconds were an eternity to me. I continued to fall. Rittmeister Manfred von Richthofen, Jagdgeschwader 1At the very last minute he regained partial vision and managed to land safely just before fainting.

The FE2d and an Albatross DIII:

[David Kuijt]

On June 9, 1917, Raymond Collishaw was shot down by the first burst from an enemy that bounced him while he was engaging a second. "His attack left me unscathed but shattered my controls. I was completely helpless." (Osprey on Sopwith Triplane Aces, p83). He was shot down at 16,000 feet; his plane then swooped and spun randomly and uncontrollably all the way to the ground (15 minutes, he said) and swooped just as it crashed; he walked away with just bruises.

One shot, one kill, against one of the best Aces of WWI. If it can happen to Richtofen, and it can happen to Collishaw, then by God it should be able to happen to me!

[rcboater]

I think a lot of people take the "explosion" card too literally. I think it is meant to represent all the ways that "instant death" could strike in a WW1 aircraft. Pilot incapacitation/death is proably much more likely than an actual explosion-- I wonder if the card would have generated so much dislike if, instead of "explosion" the card said "pilot killed".........

If you read some first hand accounts, you get a sense of how risky this air combat activity really was. Personally, I would not want to be exchanging machine gun fire with an opponent, with only a piece of canvas protecting me....

[rcboater]

On June 9, 1917, Raymond Collishaw was shot down by the first burst from an enemy that bounced him while he was engaging a second. "His attack left me unscathed but shattered my controls. I was completely helpless." (Osprey on Sopwith Triplane Aces, p83).

Collishaw's autobiography is hard to find, but worth the trouble-- it is a terrific read.

[Oberst Hajj]

I think it is meant to represent all the ways that "instant death" could strike in a WW1 aircraft.

Andrea has pointed this out on several occasions.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Andrea has pointed this out on several occasions.

I am sorry if my posting was obtuse, but this was exactly the point that I was trying to make in my last posting. I can only apologize to rcboater if my meaning was not clear enough. I will try not to be so supercilious next time. :o
Rob.

[csadn]

Both Richthofen's and Collishaw's encounters are "one in one thousand" (or perhaps "two in two thousand") instances, as would be an E.I managing to get a shot off against a SPAD 13 in the first place (the E.I couldn't catch it, much less shoot it) -- the Instant Death card is a one in about forty instance.

One could as easily justify a card which, when played, causes the player's airplane to "simply disappear into the clouds" (think Georges Guynemer); or (depending on who you ask) the mechanical failure which killed Max Immelmann. But at that point, we're playing _Aces High_ (I have -- it's not pleasant... :P ).

Also, the encounters cited upthread are examples of critical hits, with which the game already [ahem] deals with in the damage deck. Personally, I prefer the solution I've seen employed in some quarters where the "observer dead" result becomes "one crewman injured"; two instances on the pilot, plane does not so much fly as plummet.

(Side note: The reason I loathe "instant death" shots is because I've lost more *players* -- not "characters", mind; *players* -- to it than anything else. There are few acts more discouraging -- or worse, frustrating -- to prospective new players than a 10-minute setup for a 30-second game session.)

But this is all my opinion. I don't like it, so I don't use it; doesn't stop you from using it, right? :)

[Oberst Hajj]

I am sorry if my posting was obtuse, but this was exactly the point that I was trying to make in my last posting. I can only apologize to rcboater if my meaning was not clear enough. I will try not to be so supercilious next time. :o
Rob.

Not at all mate. I was just pointing out that Andrea has explained to us several times that the explosion card does not exactly mean the plane exploded.


Both Richthofen's and Collishaw's encounters are "one in one thousand" (or perhaps "two in two thousand") instances, as would be an E.I managing to get a shot off against a SPAD 13 in the first place (the E.I couldn't catch it, much less shoot it) -- the Instant Death card is a one in about forty instance.

While it happens more often in our games then it might have in real life, I'm not sure of a better way of taking it into account in game terms.

I still say an E.I coming out of the sun or clouds on an unsuspecting SPAD could get a shot off on the SPAD, or even when the SPAD comes in range to shoot him.

How often are you flying an E.I against a SPAD 13 anyways?



One could as easily justify a card which, when played, causes the player's airplane to "simply disappear into the clouds" (think Georges Guynemer); or (depending on who you ask) the mechanical failure which killed Max Immelmann. But at that point, we're playing _Aces High_ (I have -- it's not pleasant... :P ). This is in fact what the explosion card represents... any thing that can take a plane out of action in a single go.



Also, the encounters cited upthread are examples of critical hits, with which the game already [ahem] deals with in the damage deck. Personally, I prefer the solution I've seen employed in some quarters where the "observer dead" result becomes "one crewman injured"; two instances on the pilot, plane does not so much fly as plummet.

Many people have issues with how the critical hits/damages effects are handled in the game :( I forgot which rule set it is in (maybe WWI Deluxe Set?), but the Observer Dead special damage is applied to the pilot.



(Side note: The reason I loathe "instant death" shots is because I've lost more *players* -- not "characters", mind; *players* -- to it than anything else. There are few acts more discouraging -- or worse, frustrating -- to prospective new players than a 10-minute setup for a 30-second game session.)

I completely agree with you here. That's way a lot of us remove it only when teach new players the game. Once they have "gone up" a few times, we add it back in like any of the other optional rules that enhance the game.



But this is all my opinion. I don't like it, so I don't use it; doesn't stop you from using it, right? :)

Very true!!! :)

[csadn]

How often are you flying an E.I against a SPAD 13 anyways?

That's the fun part of the game -- running acft. which never faced each other head-to-head. >:)

And in four combats, the E.I has fired exactly three shots -- and two of those were 0s. :)

The SPAD's problem is its lack of maneuverability -- fly in, shoot, fly by, spend four turns getting turned around, repeat. :)


This is in fact what the explosion card represents... any thing that can take a plane out of action in a single go.

That's as may be -- it still doesn't happen one time in 40, which is my problem with it (well, one of them).


Many people have issues with how the critical hits/damages effects are handled in the game :( I forgot which rule set it is in (maybe WWI Deluxe Set?), but the Observer Dead special damage is applied to the pilot.

Well, as I've yet to see a WW1 Deluxe Set up here (USA), it doesn't help me a whole lot. :) (Reminds me: I need to ask my supplier if it's getting in any of the 2nd-ed. WW1 Deluxe Sets -- Frank Luke is one of my idols... which should tell you something about me. >:) )


I completely agree with you here. That's way a lot of us remove it only when teach new players the game. Once they have "gone up" a few times, we add it back in like any of the other optional rules that enhance the game.

Well, I don't consider it an "enhancement", but that's me. :)

Give you an example: I once drew two "engine damaged" results in one shot; that was a sufficiently rare "instant death" that it didn't bother me all that much. Drawing two "crew injured" specials for one shot -- same deal. Having a "Foxtrot Yankee" card* lying in wait in the deck -- that's annoying.

[*: The meaning of this is left to the reader's imagination. >:) ]

[Rollout]

My group often leaves the "explosion" card out until a condition is met. With a table of experienced players, we'll insert into a shuffled deck after the first plane meets its end in another manner. With a mix of old and new, we'll insert it after the appropriate damage deck runs out. If we have all new players, we leave it out or discount it if drawn.

We're playing more and more scenario-driven/mission-oriented games, so we have more planes buzzing and it's not long, even with a reshuffle, for the dreaded BOOM-card to make its appearance.

Alternately, you could make it a pilot skill for certain skilled pilots or aces to return the Boom-card in exchange for another damage card on first draw. If they draw it again later on...too bad. Your number is up!

[Gord]

One can always keep the explosion card AND reduce the element of chance by adding dice to the result. Draw the explosion, roll the dice and add the total to your damage.
If your a/c can has 12 hit points remaining and you roll boxcars then - as they say - "Poof! She is gone!", but you might just roll snake-eyes and get to stay in the fight.
I am going to try this a house rule and let you know how it works.
Aces could subtract one from the dice roll for every multiple of 5 victories (is it politically incorrect to say kills?).

Gord

[tuladin]

In my group we split the damage decks into two piles, shuffle the explosion into one of the piles, and put that pile at the bottom of the deck. That way the explosions are in the decks, but you know you won't get one until at least half the damage deck has been used. We have no early instant deaths that way.

[LGKR]

In my group we split the damage decks into two piles, shuffle the explosion into one of the piles, and put that pile at the bottom of the deck. That way the explosions are in the decks, but you know you won't get one until at least half the damage deck has been used. We have no early instant deaths that way.

This is the best idea Iv'e seen.

[flash]

I do similar with my wingman but the club we play at doesn't...yet !
I pulled the explosion card twice in the last 3 games I've played in there - one on an A deck & one on a B deck - both were quite late on in the game. The first was the result of fire damage, so was a fair result, the second in an exchange of gunfire with a 2 seater... I was within an ace of downing him just short of completing his mission too. I was gutted as I only had 8 damage points & it meant defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory.
Next time......

[CappyTom]

I feel the dogfights are short enough to keep the explosion cards in. Plus I made some chips with the damage and special damage on them. The pilots grab them out of a bag and then on the honor system write them down on a card by their flight deck then put the chip back in the bag.

Tom

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Having read so much about random flack when flying over the lines, we decided in one of our games to insert three explosion cards, and place them in a deck for the attackers being over the enemy lines. No anti aircraft guns were placed, but if an explosion card was drawn, the rules for flack were employed. The aircraft then took damage as for a near miss by A.A. fire. That spiced up the game a bit, and gave us chance to use our flack markers. They are too good not to use.We are now trying to simulate, a plane taken by surprise being warned by a flack battery with random bursts of flack. Will he notice the plane in the Sun or not?
Rob.

[flash]

Nice one Rob - I may try that one with the boys at the club.

[Goering Ace]

We (my son and I) remove the explosion card for all our games. For me, I like to earn my victory, and the explosion card takes that away. If I get a kill, I want to have done it by outflying my opponent (as much as possible considering luck of the draw with damage cards), not by getting a lucky shot. My very first game of WOW I was completely and utterly dominated by my buddy and with my plane near death (only 2 points left) he drew the explosion card with one of the few hits I landed on his plane. I got my first kill but had not even an ounce of satisfaction with it. Ever since then I've played without it. I totally understand why it's there (the various circumstances it represents), but for me I enjoy the thrill of the fight and when it's all over, win or lose, I'll know It ended with a true, well earned victory.

Scott

[Charlie3]

I've said it before...Its is still my favorite card in the game. I still laugh everytime I draw it for the following reasons;

It causes stress before the draw, making you feel like you are the pilot.
It balances out the idea of using any plane in the game against another.
It evens the playing field for the beginners against the seasoned fliers.
It can be frustrating to draw just when you are doing well, a common issue during the war.
It can make your day during a game where you are doing very poorly (how many points do I have left?...let me count again)
It DOES cause no end of contorversy!!

I do have a suggestion for those of you that remove it from your games...Since it is supposed to represent a realitivly instant death, at least use the Observer Incapasitated special damage cards as instant death for pilots. Since there was nothing to keep bullets from hitting the pilots in these planes, I think the need for the event is there.

Our group does roll dice if a plane goes down due to being whittled down to zero damage points to deturmine if the pilot survives the crash. So the unlucky pilot hits that mean there is no chance of survival is important to us from a historic viewpoint.

Please remember however the only right way to play this game is the way YOUR group likes to play!! That is one of the reasons that this has become my favorite game, It's flexability.

[CappyTom]

You've got that right...

Tom