ww1 bombing

[Kiwi_Ace]

how do people handle bombing missions.
we tried one today and used the bombing card from Dawn of War and the D damage deck. was actually pretty good system. next time we would allow fighters to carry 3 bombs as well. this time we just let the 2 seaters carry bombs.

[Oberst Hajj]

Jody, We use the bombing system from Dawn of War as well with some additional rules...


10. Bombing
At the start of each sortie, each player determines the bomb load for their plane. Fighters can carry three bombs and two-seaters can carry nine bombs. The bombs can be configured to drop individually or in groups of three. Fighters can drop three single bombs or one group and two-seaters can drop nine single bombs, three groups, or any combination of the two.

At any point in a turn, before revealing a maneuver, a fighter or two-seater can decide to drop one or more individual bombs, groups of bombs, or any combination of the two. A fighter cannot drop bombs immediately after an Immelmann turn and cannot fire in the phase it drops bombs. A two-seater cannot drop bombs if the observer is incapacitated and the observer cannot fire in the phase he drops bombs.

In order to bomb a ground target:
• Place a bomb card next to the plane.
• Execute the maneuver.
• If the last maneuver was a stall, place a stall maneuver card in front of the plane.
• For all other maneuvers, place a straight maneuver card in front of the plane.
• Place the bomb card so that the arrow on its rear matches the arrow on the maneuver card.

The bombs hit the ground in the same phase they are dropped. Each bomb does two
points of damage. If the red dot/center post of the target is completely covered by the bomb card, it is a direct hit and the target takes full damage. If the red dot/center post is not completely covered but any part of the target is, it is a near miss and the target takes half damage. If no part of the target is covered, it is a complete miss and the target takes no damage.


I chose not to use a damage deck for the bomb's damage as it allowed me to have a lot more control over ow hard my bombing mission targets were.

[Kiwi_Ace]

cheers Keith. we will be testing using these rules next time we play, 2 wks time.
had 2 sorties yesterday, 9 pilots mission 1 and then 8 pilots mission 2.

played a balloon barrage mission which was pretty cool, scenario from burning drachens where you assault 4 observation balloons in a line connected by impassable wires. my allied team managed to destroy 2 of them before they were pulled down then we completed the sortie with a dogfight.

mission 2 was a bombing sortie with the germans keeping the 2 balloons they had left for additional defense, this time with mounted machine guns..

[jodiepascal]

We had a little get together last night to discuss a few things concerning our local league rules and bombing was one of the topics that was brought up.

Something that I thought was interesting came up while we were playing around with some altitude changes. My RAF 8 was coming in to photo-recon a target area and I automatically dropped in altitude because it seemed like the realistic thing to do(:eek:), which got the 4 of us thinking about the difficulties of bombing runs during WWI and how altitude might affect that.

We were playing with the idea that it might be wise to come up with a house rule that makes bombing a target more or less difficult depending on the planes altitude and bearing. It might also affect the damage done to the target depending on the above factors.

Just a thought. Let me know what you think...

JPB

[Angiolillo]

Col. Hajj did well quoting Dawn of War. the same rules, adapted to WWI, are in the Deluxe set (that alas never appeared in English) and will be in Flight of the Giants. And they combine with altitude to make it more difficult to aim bombs when you fly high.

Here the full rules from the Deluxe.


BOMBING
If you want to play a bombing scenario, include the rules in this section.

HOW TO BOMB
At the start of the scenario, decide the load of the bomber. It can be a
single load or it can be divided in several groups of bombs. Each group is
worth a certain amount of damage points to the target (or victory points
for the scenario).
Before revealing any maneuver, the bomber can decide to drop one or
more groups of bombs, or even all the load. If he does so, take a bomb card
that represents all the bombs dropped in that turn.
Execute the maneuver and, before weapon fire is resolved, put the bombs
in play. If the last maneuver of the bomber was a stall, put a stall in front of
the airplane, then put the bomb card so that the arrow on its rear matches
the one at the rear of the card. If the last maneuver was not a stall, put a
straight in front of the plane and do the same.
A soon as they are placed on the table, the bombs hit the ground. If the red
dot on a target card is totally covered by the bomb card, the target takes
full damage (or the player scores full victory points). If the red dot is not
totally covered but even a little part of the target card is, the damage (or the
score) is halved (round down). If no part of any target card is covered, the
bombs missed. In any of the three cases, remove the bomb’s card. It is
strictly forbidden to take any kind of measurement during the game apart
from those required to check fi ring, tailing and such: You can not take
measurements to evaluate if your bombs will strike the target or not.
Bombs cannot be dropped just after an Immelmann/Split S.

BOMBING AND ALTITUDE
If you are playing with altitude, also use the following rules.
A bombing can be made at any altitude above level 0.
If the plane is at altitude 1 when it drops the bombs, they hit the ground immediately: Just use the same rules provided above. If the plane is above altitude 1 when bombs are dropped, place one or more markers on the bomb card when it is placed on the table. Place 1 marker if the altitude is 2 or 3, two markers if it is 4-6, three markers if it is 7-10, and four markers if it is above altitude 10. The bombs don’t hit the ground when they are placed on the table, and they are not removed. Instead, in each subsequent phase, they are again moved with the same maneuver card with which they are placed (stall, short straight, or long straight), and a marker is taken away each time. Ignore any effect to any card or airplane overlapping the bombs card while in the sky. When you move it and take away the last marker, the bombs hit the ground with the effects explained in the section above.
To help remember the speed of the bombs, put the markers along the front side of the bomb card if a straight has to be used, along the rear side if it is a stall.

EXAMPLE
A Sopwith Camel has four 9 kg bombs considered as a single load. The
player will get 4 victory points in the scenario if he can bomb a
building with them. Th e plane gets in front of the target card and, after
a right turn of 60° at altitude 4, it drops the bombs. In the same phase
the player puts a straight in front of the Camel and a bomb card
matching the point of the arrow on it. Since altitude is 4, two markers
are placed on top of the bomb card, along the front side. In the next two
phases, put a straight in front of the bombs and then move the bombs
matching the point of the arrow, taking away a marker. At the end of
the second phase, the bombs are landed: Since the bombs cards overlap
part of the target card but not the red dot, the player gets only two
victory points.

[Charlie3]

Thankyou Andrea...It's always good to hear the official things from the designer. We are hoping to see the Flight of the Giants set soon here in the States. I have already done some scenarios using some graphics downloads from other web sites and rules I designed to mimic the ones we already had for the two seaters, but I am looking forward to the official version.

[usmc1855]

Col. Hajj did well quoting Dawn of War. the same rules, adapted to WWI, are in the Deluxe set (that alas never appeared in English) and will be in Flight of the Giants. And they combine with altitude to make it more difficult to aim bombs when you fly high.

Here the full rules from the Deluxe.

Outstanding!

Being geographically challenged here in the U.S. where the Deluxe set was never available, I'm pleased to see these rules!

I especially like the Bombing and Altitude provisions.

[Zeppelin]

Thanks for the post Angiolillo.

[KsLazarus]

Thanks for the Bombing Rules!

[KirkH]

Are there any performance penalties for loaded planes? I'd think a bomb load would impact a planes ability to move quickly and maneuver - especially the fighters which normally didn't carry bombs.

Maybe a penalty could be no steep maneuvers or Immelmanns and the loaded plane must perform at least one straight each turn.

[Oberst Hajj]

Fighters only carried a few small bombs, and I can't recall reading any reports of them seriously hampering performance. I guess it comes down to how many special rules you want to have to remember during the game. I've said many times that the enjoyment level and success of Wings of War is the relative simplicity of the game mechanics and rules.

[KirkH]

Yes but one of the other threads in this forum is about how to make two seaters a bit less lethal. Hampering their performance a bit when they're carrying a load may just be a way to do that. Also, I've seen house rules from other folks who restrict the maneuverability of fighters that carry extra guns (the twin gun Sopwith Triplane, the three gun Eindekker, etc.) and this would fit in with that.

[KsLazarus]

I think the loading performance is an interesting suggestion... when I look at photos of the planes I cannot help but think that they look so fragile!!! I would think that any extra weight would change the whole flight dynamic...
With that said, I think this is a perfect example of the balancing act we can find ourselves in when it comes to rule modifications. Based on the core rule set, loading performance does not fit in with the overall simplification mantra and therefore, it isn't needed. However, if we remove the altitude rules and the inherent disadvantage 2-seaters face when altitude is in play... then we find ourselves trying to find a feasible disadvantage to put the game back into balance. Whether that is done with modifications to the core altitude rules, changes to the range or damage from guns... or adding performance changes to bomb-loaded planes... when the original balance is disturbed by one rule change, we change another rule to compensate, which changes another rule, and so on... Eventually we will find ourselves discussing glove material and its impact on the "on fire" rule in rule modification #687.

Anyway... Cheers Andrea... thanks for providing the bombing rules, as my US set did not include these.

[KirkH]

I agree. When one either changes or adds some rule, it may throw other things out of kilter. On the other hand, one of the fun aspects of boardgames is that one can change the rules as they see fit. We're not limited to the rules the programmer programs into our game.

[John B]

I hope I am in the right thread here, in which sets does one get the bomb cards please ?:confused:

[KsLazarus]

If you are looking for info on bombing, you are in the right place...
As I understand it, only the version of WoW released in Europe included the bombing rules and bombing cards.
For the rules, this thread has a post from the game designer, Andrea, that includes the rules. I have a download of the card from this site.
Have fun!

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/downloads.php?do=cat&id=19

[Oberst Hajj]

John, you can find them in the WWI Deluxe Set (not available in English) or in the Dawn of War box. Andrea has confirmed that they will also be in the Flight of Giants box as well.

Barring any of those, some scans have been uploaded to the File System here on the site.

[John B]

Tanks for your replies.


John B:)

[colneher]

Awesome stuff here .. THANKS so much!

:D

[Greywolf]

with the bombers, two-seaters how was the main system used to drop the bombs?

obviously in the early days they were hand dropped did this get much more sophisticated?

as for making a bombing run harder what about making it that if the bomb card is not over the red center dot then it is randomly scattered.

This could be done by having 5 cards 0-4.

0 = bomb falls where the card is
1 = place the bomb card one card width to the left.
2 = place the bomb card one card length at the top of the bomb card
3 = place the bomb card one card width to the right.
4 = place the bomb card one card length at the bottom of the bomb card


by doing this there is a chance you might miss the primary target and hit something completely different. The other option is you could over shoot the target and hit some of your own troops [which did happen] and to determine the scatter you could just use the C damage deck. another option is the explosion card is a bomb exploding early or infact it hit it target etc.

Just an idea....

Cheers
GW

[Scoop]

I think that makes sense when playing on the mats and you have several bystanding objects which are meant to be left undamaged. Otherwise scattering is sensless if you miss the target anyway.

[Scoop]

I've got another request - can someone post a bombing turn with the cards shown (including the plane)? We flew a mission some weeks ago and almost killed each other, because we read the text several times and are still not sure if we understood it right.

[Greywolf]

I think that makes sense when playing on the mats and you have several bystanding objects which are meant to be left undamaged. Otherwise scattering is sensless if you miss the target anyway.

I was thinking about what I posted earlier and think it would be a better option for use with Altitude rules. if your over a certain height you must scatter the bomb card. regardless if you hit or not.

Also whats the chance of hitting another plane? if there are lower altitude planes and the bombs scatters onto them....

Cheers
GW

[Scoop]

I like the idea, but it makes the game more complex.

[Captain Bigglesmay]

very nice thanks for the info